Setting the record straight - by '90 year-old Don'

[alohatodon2]

I would like to end the conversation thread "New retirement extension rules forces expat, 90, to leave Thailand". There are now 56 pages of comments, some surly, some pompous, some sympathetic, some nasty, some offering advice and others that go on ad nauseum.   Because I don't want to start page 57,  I am starting a new Title and, hopefully, ending all further comment.  I am Don, the 90 year-old and, yes, I am a real person.  If you go to Page 1 of the 56 pages of comments.....and read what I said......you will see that I did not say "forces expat".  That is someone else's word and an interpretation of what I actually said which was, simply, "I am leaving".  Here is a reason: heretofore, with anyone's notarized letter from their Embassy, truthful or not truthful, it did not require an individual to keep an excessive amount of baht, 800,000 or 400,000.....totally stagnant.....in a Thailand bank for the banks to use as "float"and make money for themselves.  Multiply those hefty numbers by the number of ex-pats who are/will be so kind and generous to the Thai banks and you see who is getting the use (float) from all that stagnant money that belongs to you. As for the 65,000 baht monthly deposit regulation, I have lived here for years, comfortably, on less than that.  Now, any excess would build up in a Thai bank, again for the bank to use.  To periodically send it back to a bank in one's country, as you suggest?  Go ahead, jump through hoops, play the game, spend the time and pay the fees back and forth; that's up to you.  Why no Plan B, you also ask?  Plan A was made years ago by this 90 year-old Accountant who retired at age 54.  36 years of daily living have now past; inflation and cost of living have increased and there is still a bit of nest egg left.  Could you have done as well? Blame me for being 90, nothing else. Thailand has been "home" but I will leave; it's just that I do not have a place to go to. Address books of friends and relatives get very thin as one outlives them.  There is, of course, an ultimate option (and it was hinted) of going to any one of the shopping malls that have high balconies.  Thanks, but I have acrophobia and am afraid of heights. 

[jimn]

Well best of luck Don. I hope you have made the right choice.

[fforest1]

If you have got no where to go why leave?.......90 is to old to start over some where else....Money or no money I would stay same...

[brokenbone]

i'm not your match age vise, but as far as body failing and ailing

i can empathize and relate.

for me it boils down to stay or vietnam, i am not up to snuff for longer journeys.

have a look at this thread

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1083782-its-painful-to-watch-visa-related/

[Puchaiyank]

Don, really...throw away that accounting educated mind for a moment...ask yourself this commonsense question...at 90 years of age what difference does it really make what bank has use if your money?  If you are happy and content in Thailand save yourself a lot of angst and hardship...just relax and enjoy your remaining years...

Edited February 12, 2019 by Puchaiyank

[scubascuba3]

Don you are a very law abiding person which is a good thing. At 90 i would seriously consider not bothering with a visa, think about it. Continue to live the last stage of your life here

[BritTim]

Have you been in Thailand continually for 36 years on a retirement extension? If so, you would qualify for the grandfathered rule that would only require 20,000 baht (income) transferred into a Thai bank per month. I doubt your living costs would be much less than that.

[JAS21]

Hell Don ... we left the UK for good in 2007 ..decided not a good place to get old in ... my wifes exact words ... 

 

Whatever you think of the rule changes, if you can accept them, this place is okay for your latter years  BUT YMMY of course.

[humbug]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

Have you been in Thailand continually for 36 years on a retirement extension? If so, you would qualify for the grandfathered rule that would only require 20,000 baht (income) transferred into a Thai bank per month. I doubt your living costs would be much less than that.

maybe he used the pension letter etc, you are just picking holes where there are no holes. 800 k invested in a property fund after tax which makes 5% compunded over 10 years is nearly 550k earnings, thats the sort of money people will lose now with new rules and who knows what other rules will come, and maybe the insurance rule, which is interesting because the building that houses immigration et al at chaeng wattana is owned by a thai insurance company.

[steve187]

rules are rules, if you were side stepping the rules before by making a false declaration, and now its not possible to do, either break more rules by overstaying or go back to home country and claim all you are entitled to.

[KittenKong]

7 hours ago, alohatodon2 said:

Here is a reason: heretofore, with anyone's notarized letter from their Embassy, truthful or not truthful, it did not require an individual to keep an excessive amount of baht, 800,000 or 400,000.....totally stagnant.....in a Thailand bank for the banks to use as "float"and make money for themselves.

This isn't correct. My 800kB is on time deposit with a Thai bank which is currently paying me 2.5%/year interest. And I can even reclaim the 15% withholding tax deducted from that interest.

 

2.5% is a better rate of interest than I can get in the UK or EU, and since I brought that money here my home country's currency has decreased in value by 20% or more (well over 50B then and barely 40B now). So it doesnt seem so bad to me.

[Lacessit]

Good luck Don. It's very obvious from your OP you have retained all your marbles. There is an aged care facility in Chiang Mai that costs about 45,000 baht/month. NancyL probably has more details.

[Longcut]

5 hours ago, fforest1 said:

If you have got no where to go why leave?.......90 is to old to start over some where else....Money or no money I would stay same...

I doubt the Thai government would deport you or throw you in jail. If I were 90 years old and in the same predicament, I wouldn't even bother extending my visa. The government wouldn't want the bad press, especially after the asylum seekers conundrum. But, that's just me. Wish you all the best in whatever decision you make. 

[lamyai3]

7 hours ago, alohatodon2 said:

you will see that I did not say "forces expat".  That is someone else's word and an interpretation of what I actually said which was, simply, "I am leaving". 

To be fair, this is what you were quoted as saying:

"At 90 years of age I will now have to move out of Thailand because of new immigration requirements."

 

"Have to" isn't dissimilar in meaning to the word "forces" that was used in the original story and headline. Assuming you were quoted accurately, I think they presented your case pretty well.

 

That said, thanks for your account, it showcases some of the realities of immigration's ill thought through approach. Wish you the best of luck. 

 

 

 

[Henryford]

47 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

This isn't correct. My 800kB is on time deposit with a Thai bank which is currently paying me 2.5%/year interest. And I can even reclaim the 15% withholding tax deducted from that interest.

 

2.5% is a better rate of interest than I can get in the UK or EU, and since I brought that money here my home country's currency has decreased in value by 20% or more (well over 50B then and barely 40B now). So it doesnt seem so bad to me. 

I agree KK it's not a bad place to put your money but the problem is you can't touch it (if you use the 800k method for a visa). So the money is in effect lost until you die or leave Thailand.

[KittenKong]

24 minutes ago, Henryford said:

I agree KK it's not a bad place to put your money but the problem is you can't touch it (if you use the 800k method for a visa). So the money is in effect lost until you die or leave Thailand.

Even with the recent changes, I think that you can still use the money from 3 months after your extension has been granted until 3 months before the next one, so almost half the year. Of course you would not get such a high rate for a shorter time deposit.

 

Another option would be the Krungsri MTD account which pays about 1.3% but allows instant access.

 

Someone who has been here for 30 years could actually be "grandfathered" and may not even need to have that full amount on deposit anyway.

Edited February 13, 2019 by KittenKong

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, steve187 said:

rules are rules, if you were side stepping the rules before by making a false declaration, and now its not possible to do, either break more rules by overstaying or go back to home country and claim all you are entitled to.

There is no indication his declaration was false.  He said he didn't need to "IMPORT" that much to support himself - which is the case with most people who lost their letters, and are now looking at what he suggested - sending money back - to keep the nest-egg intact, upon which they depend to continue their lives / future income stream.

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, lamyai3 said:

To be fair, this is what you were quoted as saying:

"At 90 years of age I will now have to move out of Thailand because of new immigration requirements."

 

"Have to" isn't dissimilar in meaning to the word "forces" that was used in the original story and headline. Assuming you were quoted accurately, I think they presented your case pretty well.

 

That said, thanks for your account, it showcases some of the realities of immigration's ill thought through approach. Wish you the best of luck. 

 

 

 

He said he was misquoted.

[lamyai3]

11 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

He said he was misquoted.

No he didn't - go back and reread the OP. He said he didn't use the words "forces expat" and asked people to go back and read what he'd originally said on page 1 of the previous thread - which I did, and duly quoted. 

[mikebell]

In the comments above there is talk of 'grandfathering' & more amenable terms being available.  Is there a link where I could find out?  I am in my 15th consecutive year here & aged 76.

[lamyai3]

8 minutes ago, mikebell said:

In the comments above there is talk of 'grandfathering' & more amenable terms being available.  Is there a link where I could find out?  I am in my 15th consecutive year here & aged 76.

Unfortunately this only applies to the pre 1998 rules, for those on continuous extension since that time. 

[indepth]

6 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Don you are a very law abiding person which is a good thing. At 90 i would seriously consider not bothering with a visa, think about it. Continue to live the last stage of your life here

And face the possibility of spend the rest of your live behind bars for overstay. ( looks like your gunna get another 50 pages of comments).

[tgeezer]

Someone who was subject to a ‘grandfather clause’ would have seen a huge increase in money required, have complained, and been ‘grandfathered’.


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[KittenKong]

38 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

Unfortunately this only applies to the pre 1998 rules, for those on continuous extension since that time. 

I think there are two different possibilities of "grandfathering" as there are two different amounts and ages that are applicable.

 

But it does all only apply to those who have been on continuous extensions since before the changes(s), as you point out, and it is not retroactive. The details are given in the official memorandum which has been posted on here recently.

 

My point was that anyone who has been here on extensions for 30 years could already benefit from this. It seems like the OP may fit in this category.

 

 

[scubascuba3]

And face the possibility of spend the rest of your live behind bars for overstay. ( looks like your gunna get another 50 pages of comments).

At 90 i think I'd be a little more laid back about it

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, mikebell said:

In the comments above there is talk of 'grandfathering' & more amenable terms being available.  Is there a link where I could find out?  I am in my 15th consecutive year here & aged 76.

At stated by someone else, you would not quite qualify. For the benefit of those who might, this is the relevant part of the Police Order on extensions of stay (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwNib_gx9zYEYkFjMUNHV1pXdWs/view)

Quote

2.22 In the case of retirement: Each permission shall be granted for no more than one year. The alien: (1) Must have been granted a non­immigrant visa (NON­IM).
(2) Must be 50 years of age or over.
(3) Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month: or
(4) On the filing date, the applicant must have funds deposited in a bank in Thailand of no less than Baht 800,000 for the past three months. For the first year only, the applicant must have proof of a deposit account in which said amount of funds has been maintained for no less than 60 days prior to the filing date: or
(5) Must have an annual earning and fluids deposited with a bank totaling no less than Baht 800,0000 as of the filing date.
(6) An alien who entered the Kingdom before October 21, 1998 and has been consecutively permitted to stay in the Kingdom for retirement shall be subject to the following criteria:
(a) Must be 60 years of age or over and have an annual fixed income with fluids maintained in a bank account for the past three months of no less than Baht 200,000 or have a monthly income of no less than Baht 20,000
(b) If less than 60 years of age but not less than 55 years of age, must have an annual fixed income with funds maintained in a bank account for the past three months of no less than Baht 500,000 or have a monthly income of no less than Baht 50,000

 

[indepth]

"   Because I don't want to start page 57,  I am starting a new Title and, hopefully, ending all further comment.  "  No such luck ol timer. All the comments are now about how much money is needed, where to keep it etc etc.Already covered thousands of times. I wish  everybody was as concise and to the point as you. Good luck.

[tgeezer]

 

 

This police order asks two questions of people who were fifty years of age or older in 1998, that is twenty years ago.

Are you over sixty? Umm that’s a difficult one.

Are you less than sixty but not less than fifty five? Too difficult!

In fact if the second condition applied to you you would need 500,000 dropping within five years to 200,000 when you would be over sixty.

Is it any wonder that people get confused when this order is still in the police orders?

One can keep silent and be believed stupid or open one’s mouth and remove all doubt, have I just removed all doubt?

 

 

 

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