DrTuner Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Three more years to enjoy the healthy Thai veggies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Bluespunk said: Unlike that of those using it. unlike all living things then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 11 hours ago, robblok said: Its not a suicide thing it actually is and quoted in many websites as being "highly toxic when ingested" and the main way to commit suicide in many countries the prime reason for banning it. Then theres the reason of possible links to Parkinsons as a "secondary" reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emptypockets Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 4 hours ago, JimmyJ said: "No its not that dangerous..." You are the problem. You and farmers like you, too lazy/ignorant/uncaring/selfish to do the right thing. It may not be too dangerous for you if you are wearing full protective gear. People ingesting the poisonous food you produce are the ones who will suffer. ""No its not that dangerous...". It's great that anonymous internet poster kannot knows better than the scientists who can produce empirical evidence of its dangers. Do you really think I spray glysophate (Roundup) on anything I want to eat? Do you what glysophate is? It KILLS some (but not all plants). There wouldn't be anything left to eat if I sprayed it on plants grown for consumption. I have never used paraquat. There is a big difference between responsible use and irresponsible use. People need to get off this bandwagon and actually find out the difference between the various chemicals available, how to apply them, learn the withholding period and start thinking for a change instead of mindlessly following the ill informed herd. The anti campaigner suggested they start with banning the products on organic farms - that told me all I need to now about this idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emptypockets Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Bluespunk said: Unlike that of those using it. Ill informed garbage comment. I know farmers in their nineties who have used paraquat responsibly for decades with no ill effect. Having said that Paraquat has been banned in that particular country but roundup is still used. They are two very different chemicals but get lumped together by the, dare i say green movement, for maximum fear effect on the gullible and misinformed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 42 minutes ago, kannot said: unlike all living things then Nope, though those not using paraquat will have better chance of living longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emptypockets Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 41 minutes ago, kannot said: it actually is and quoted in many websites as being "highly toxic when ingested" and the main way to commit suicide in many countries the prime reason for banning it. Then theres the reason of possible links to Parkinsons as a "secondary" reason My Aunty from Dads side killed herself back in the 60's by drinking paraquat. I'm sure she would have found something else to do the deed if needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Just now, emptypockets said: Ill informed garbage comment. I know farmers in their nineties who have used paraquat responsibly for decades with no ill effect. Having said that Paraquat has been banned in that particular country but roundup is still used. They are two very different chemicals but get lumped together by the, dare i say green movement, for maximum fear effect on the gullible and misinformed. Paraquat: Banned the world over...I think I know who is peddling ill informed anecdotal garbage https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/001085.htm There are more detailed articles out there, but thought this one would suit you better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 13 hours ago, canopy said: Kannot I am surprised you are still in denial. The farms in Thailand and all around you are operating just fine do you know the farms round by me?? really.....well i do and now a lot of the land has been left vacant because they cant find staff to do the work, someone bought the land opposite me a few years back, planned to grow a load of stuff and abandoned it, couldnt find staff, a dairy farm just 800m away closed as all the staff (Burmese ) left got better work in the city.but youd know all that right?I just love it when folks with no idea spout up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Bluespunk said: Nope, though those not using paraquat will have better chance of living longer. as long as they arent Thai and using the roads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 14 hours ago, thequietman said: Thailand is also one of the largest importers of asbestos. They say it doesn't hold any danger either. I dont spray asbestos on my land as It wont fit in the sprayer, especially the 8'' x4" sheets On the subject of toxicity I wonder how many people know about Ricin and its availability in Thailand, that stuff is everywhere here, growing like weeds...........suggest a good dose of paraquat would fix that...temporarily anyway, in the meantime I'll keep feeding my non existent kids a healthy daily dose on my imaginary crops that I allegedly grow......apparently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shy coconut Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 18 hours ago, YetAnother said: if thailand was a single person, then that person could not tie their own shoes' laces; the rest of the world banned this stuff long ago; think there were very good reasons to do so ? Sadly it seems that Sygenta make the stuff in the UK, where its is banned for domestic use. I have read that the use of paraquat is increasing in the US, where it has a restricted use tag, largely to weeds becoming resistant to round up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 8 hours ago, seajae said: I vary between paraquat and glyphosate so weeds do not become used to either, I only spray around trees(for 6" out) where the brush cutter cant go and do so wearing boots and a mask, weeds cannot be controlled as I cannot dig around the trees or I will destroy roots, pulling them is beyond a joke as getting any workers apart from the brush cutter has proven to be impossible. I offer more than double the daily wage for a few hours work and none want to do it, seems manual labour is too much for most of them and when I have had a few come along they simply stop working if I leave or dont show up again even though I am there working with them and I am disabled, laziness appears to be rife. I would love an alternative but they are going to ban both paraquat and glyphosate which was what they started using instead of glyphosate in Malaysia, my trees (over 500)are a hobby for me, it gives me something to do with my time and they are not a financial proposition for me, by all means, all those saying these sprays are not needed come in and come up with another method that is proven, when done as I do it is controlled, no over spray and not near any food sources, admittedly the farmers using it are idiots the way they spray it but when done correctly it can be controlled, I would have no problems if they left glyphosate on the market but that is going as well you should be nailed to a tree and crucified, then sprayed with paraquat ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 13 hours ago, canopy said: Kannot I am surprised you are still in denial. The farms in Thailand and all around you are operating just fine yet there you are blaming your labor shortcomings on a non-existent labor shortage / no one doing manual labor nonsense. Look around and fix your problem. And another thing. You know full well that in Thailand no one follows the directions and how bad that is so calling these things safe when used properly is ridiculous. It's about as safe as giving them all a red button to set off a nuke in your front yard because they are all such thoughtful and responsible people and would never press the button. And as already pointed out, I want to point out a second time especially for you that banning this is different than banning vehicles. There are easy alternatives to poisoning, vehicles not so much. Having to pull the weeds would be the best thing ever, though that's not where we will get to with this ban. A plate of rice would cost 1 more baht. And it would mean infinitely more jobs in the poor areas instead of this money going in the pockets of the big chemical companies. And the food would be healthy. And the environment clean. The eagles would not prey on sick animals and die off. And the farmers would not suffer. The price of goods simply follows the increases in production price. Just think about it the other way around. If someone told you they could make your plate of rice 1 baht cheaper, BUT it would be laced with dangerous chemicals, pollute the environment, and kill jobs in the countryside to enrich the big chemical companies would you want that? Of course not. We need to recognize the madness of these chemicals and get rid of them now. The big chemical companies seem desperate to buy time and find ways to unravel this common sense future. 3 years gives them a lot of time to infiltrate and buy people off. Glad to hear there are a few people that want to press them on this. Don't be fooled by the monopolies. There are no uncharted waters ahead and no need to wait which is proven by the fact all the other countries have made this ban successfully long ago. do you know the farms round by me?? .....well i do and now a lot of the land has been left vacant because they cant find staff to do the work, someone bought the land opposite me a few years back, planned to grow a load of stuff and abandoned it, couldnt find staff, a dairy farm just 800m away closed as all the staff (Burmese ) left got better work in the city,but youd know all that right?. 3-4 years ago it was easy to get staff Ive mentioned staff problems before and had every response under the sun including "my relatives in Issan would die for money like that" yet when asked them to give me their phone numbers no response. Or when saying theyd ask round their village.........no response/takers Tried two people who I got recommended and they were useless, got rid in just 1 month, there is a nationwide shortage, doesnt matter what you pay , 500 a day no takers. Want a photo of my big plastic banners I hang outside the land asking for staff? Its a big issue and has been now for about 3 years, at one time you could ring an agent and 2 Burmese would arrive the same day, now NONE of them want to work on the land, they want factory jobs with overtime, as soon as overtime stops they leave. The way some <deleted> on here talk youd think I was poisoning the ground with thousands of gallons of paraquat probably tell me next Im spraying using drones, in fact for 5 years we never used anything at all and only spot treated each individual weed on a bare 5 rai with the stuff. Guess in a whole year I might use 2-3 litres max. Local Thai farmers spray endlessly round here, usually families as they cant get staff, not so much gramoxone but many other chemicals, never wear any protective gear in most cases. From what Ive read most of the deaths from using it were overwhelmingly suicides. Im fully aware of its toxicity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, shy coconut said: Sadly it seems that Sygenta make the stuff in the UK, where its is banned for domestic use. I have read that the use of paraquat is increasing in the US, where it has a restricted use tag, largely to weeds becoming resistant to round up. The end result will be food prices will have to rise if there is no other way to stop weeds thats economically viable, I am aware of mulching and other methods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canopy Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 In my area field workers get 7000 baht a month. That works out to about 250 a day. That's not much. I hire by the day rather than have permanent workers and pay a daily wage of 400 baht. I don't use chemicals or poisons of any kind. Most people that work for me pull weeds all day long. Some men do it, a lot of women, some kids, even some elderly. It's a job anyone can do and I am pleased to give them the pocket money. I have yet to see an area go dormant due to a labor shortage. The reason a lot of people go to the big city for work is there are no jobs in the country. You wouldn't by chance have a GPS coordinate so we could independently verify all the land going vacant around you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickudon Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 There are 3 issues with Paraquat. First, it's direct toxicity to people who use it (an issue in Thailand due to poor adherence to usage instructions). The second is contamination of crops on the sprayed land (also in part due to negligent usage). The third is it's resistance to degradation, the half-life of Paraquat in soil is about 90 days, this means the land is contaminated for a long time before it is gone and also any runoff can contaminate water resources far away. Fish are quite sensitive to paraquat and also aquatic plants more so (in the UK, i used to fish in a lake which had a golf course built next to it, where they sprayed herbicides, Within 2 years all the lilies were dead and even after remedial work would not establish again 10 years later). It is this insidious damage which is the worst. In some areas in the UK, you could not irrigate some crops (like tomatoes) with river water because the herbicide levels in the rivers damage the crop .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 11 hours ago, canopy said: In my area field workers get 7000 baht a month. That works out to about 250 a day. That's not much. I hire by the day rather than have permanent workers and pay a daily wage of 400 baht. I don't use chemicals or poisons of any kind. Most people that work for me pull weeds all day long. Some men do it, a lot of women, some kids, even some elderly. It's a job anyone can do and I am pleased to give them the pocket money. I have yet to see an area go dormant due to a labor shortage. The reason a lot of people go to the big city for work is there are no jobs in the country. You wouldn't by chance have a GPS coordinate so we could independently verify all the land going vacant around you? Cant get workers round here even when paying 5-600, theyre too lazy even if they have no work they do not want to work on the land, plenty of dormant land round here also due to slump in prices of many crops pineapples 2-3 baht a kilo down from 12 baht similar with mangoes. No one will work for 7k a month here absolutely sure of that includes Burmese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 9 minutes ago, rickudon said: the half-life of Paraquat in soil is about 90 days Doesnt that very much depend on soil type ie sandy as opposed to clay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 9 minutes ago, rickudon said: There are 3 issues with Paraquat. First, it's direct toxicity to people who use it (an issue in Thailand due to poor adherence to usage instructions). The second is contamination of crops on the sprayed land (also in part due to negligent usage). The third is it's resistance to degradation, the half-life of Paraquat in soil is about 90 days, this means the land is contaminated for a long time before it is gone and also any runoff can contaminate water resources far away. Fish are quite sensitive to paraquat and also aquatic plants more so (in the UK, i used to fish in a lake which had a golf course built next to it, where they sprayed herbicides, Within 2 years all the lilies were dead and even after remedial work would not establish again 10 years later). It is this insidious damage which is the worst. In some areas in the UK, you could not irrigate some crops (like tomatoes) with river water because the herbicide levels in the rivers damage the crop .... Thais also think make it stronger = works better, when in fact the opposite is true. ALso time of spraying is important, seen some idiots do it on quite windy days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickudon Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Yes, Thai farmers are not the best educated/ Those results were from a sandy loam soil and a clay soil in Thailand. Only read the abstract, but matches what i vaguely remember from my days in MAFF. Obviously it is a generalisation, as would depend on soil type, temperature and rainfall, but as i described later, insidious pollution does a lot of damage to the environment, often at levels it is very hard to detect. And suing the guilty parties? Try proving it was THEIR application of herbicide, You have to sample up every tributary, ditch and farm field upstream of you first, fantastically expensive and usually with results not conclusive enough for a court of law. try doing that in Thailand ..... Sorry, an extensive ban is the only way. Like with visas, we all suffer due to the acts of the inconsiderate people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canopy Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 15 hours ago, kannot said: Cant get workers round here even when paying 5-600, YOU can't. That is the difference. No one else is paying those kind of high prices and farms are everywhere operating just fine. It's plain as day to anyone who looks around. Stop making up stories to try to hide your personal failures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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