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"Entry denied because you come too often" - what's the deal?

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12 hours ago, farangx said:

So what if visitors have money to spend here, that does not mean they can just stay as long as they like here.  They are welcome to spend a week or two here and fly back to their home countries and then come back later on and stay for another few weeks if they like.  Thailand has the right to their own border controls, you don't like then don't come here, their money won't be missed because new visitors will come in their place.  And so what if less VAT is collected, red wine prices here is more than twice that of Australia, so no one buys them here, all is not lost.  The same goes for those lousy tips you dished out at restaurants, they won't be missed either.  What kind of visitors would spend months on ends living in Thailand without the proper visas, Thailand don't need these people, nor matter how nice a picture you paint it is Thailand loss without these people around.  Thailand could do well with high turnaround of visitors on 1 or 2 weeks stays.  These are the people that really spend money, the rest are just fakes. 🤣

This is misinformation. 

 

First, you would need to find how "serious tourist" is defined in Thai Law (immigration act).  In Thailand, this is defined as "not working" and "having money to spend."  Many people do "tourist type" things for long periods of time, if they can afford it.


Many people no longer rely on brick/mortar jobs for their incomes.  None would be legally "booted out" - unless on overstay or working a Thai job illegally. 

 

Pre-screening visitors by providing Visas is a good idea.  A Tourist Visa is the "proper" visa for those not working a Thai job - just spending their foreign-sourced money here.  Visitors can stay until their permitted-stay ends.  They can return if they obtain permission in the form of a Visa or visa-exempt entry.

 

There might not be any reason visitors would ever need to go to their passport-country.  In any case, this is irrelevant to their meeting the qualifications to enter Thailand. 

 

If visitors only stay a "few weeks" at most, they will have less time to spend money than those staying longer.  This is not helpful to Thailand.  There are businesses which have closed, and many condos empty, due to immigration's policy changes.  Those bad policies, which hurt the country and citizens, should be reversed ASAP (if they care about their citizens).

 

Visitors are not a zero sum game.  Nothing exapts are doing is preventing short-term visitor.  Those short-term visitors are the types of visitors who keep Walking Street in business, and are given No Problems by Immigration.  Expat's money will be missed by the businesses where they currently spend it. 

 

The only visitors degrading the Thailand Experience are the mass-package-tour types, who are causing crowding and traffic problems.  They might deter visitors - not expats.  You should speak to those working at restaurants and confirm that they don't want Westerners business and tips, or want to have those jobs at all.  I can assure you, they would not rather earn min-wage (if that) working at a "package-tour" stop (though the worker:guest ratio is lower at those, so probably can't get even that).  Walking behind a guy with a stick and gawking at things is not spending money.  The locals detest them - even moto-guys have spontaneously pointed and complain to me about it.  If you got to know those who work in Tourist areas, they will tell you this in person.

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16 hours ago, stevew407 said:

Currently in Buenos Aires and trying to get to the USA.  The whole world controversies on Visa's including our great leader Trump is or does just give me or us something to do or talk about.  I am in the middle of a mess as I feel in love with a beautiful Thai woman.  I would like to take her to the USA on ANY TYPE VISA and there is a lot of history..........but not sure why I am even posting or writing this as I really like the KISS theory or the Visas for Dummies books..........  but obviously there is a lot of time, money and employment going on - who would of thunk it?  Obviously not this 66 year old idiot.   Had a nice expereince at the Uruguay Embassy here but not sure of the results as it is all in Spansih and the Cruise Line just like so many do not want to get involved in Visas then we have all these companies and people making a living off of these crazy to interpret requirements that are subject to subjectivety of the individual and the attitudes or life expereinces on that particular day and moment.........go figure.........why can't we all just get along?   Had a very nice evening last night sharing culture and food and drink with others and then wake up today trying to figure where I can go and how and why is it so <deleted> difficult?  Check out the Facebook Page and the Youtube videos or not, it is a little like the old Peyton Place or Dallas or ..........just getting a bit too old and tired at times........... Steve Wilner and Tarn Lano - but nicknames and Thailand are another story for another day.......

A good place to begin might be an education visa.  Once in country, ICE can be more subjective if they realize that she's not going to be taking jobs away from the illegals.

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I was told by the immigration officer in Jomtien that if you come too often on a tourist visa that you could be blacklisted.  They will infer that you are not truly a tourist and you should apply for the correct visa.  That of course is a problem if you can not get another type of Visa such as a retirement or marriage visa. 

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A off topic inflammatory post has been removed. A repeat of it will result in a formal warning.

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1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

This is misinformation. 

 

First, you would need to find how "serious tourist" is defined in Thai Law (immigration act).  In Thailand, this is defined as "not working" and "having money to spend."  Many people do "tourist type" things for long periods of time, if they can afford it.


Many people no longer rely on brick/mortar jobs for their incomes.  None would be legally "booted out" - unless on overstay or working a Thai job illegally. 

 

Pre-screening visitors by providing Visas is a good idea.  A Tourist Visa is the "proper" visa for those not working a Thai job - just spending their foreign-sourced money here.  Visitors can stay until their permitted-stay ends.  They can return if they obtain permission in the form of a Visa or visa-exempt entry.

 

There might not be any reason visitors would ever need to go to their passport-country.  In any case, this is irrelevant to their meeting the qualifications to enter Thailand. 

 

If visitors only stay a "few weeks" at most, they will have less time to spend money than those staying longer.  This is not helpful to Thailand.  There are businesses which have closed, and many condos empty, due to immigration's policy changes.  Those bad policies, which hurt the country and citizens, should be reversed ASAP (if they care about their citizens).

 

Visitors are not a zero sum game.  Nothing exapts are doing is preventing short-term visitor.  Those short-term visitors are the types of visitors who keep Walking Street in business, and are given No Problems by Immigration.  Expat's money will be missed by the businesses where they currently spend it. 

 

The only visitors degrading the Thailand Experience are the mass-package-tour types, who are causing crowding and traffic problems.  They might deter visitors - not expats.  You should speak to those working at restaurants and confirm that they don't want Westerners business and tips, or want to have those jobs at all.  I can assure you, they would not rather earn min-wage (if that) working at a "package-tour" stop (though the worker:guest ratio is lower at those, so probably can't get even that).  Walking behind a guy with a stick and gawking at things is not spending money.  The locals detest them - even moto-guys have spontaneously pointed and complain to me about it.  If you got to know those who work in Tourist areas, they will tell you this in person.

The definition of a tourist is a person who travels from his normal residence to another place for a temporary period for a purpose not to work or earn income.

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14 hours ago, vinegarbase said:

Thailand is a dump, the people don't want you here. If you are wise you will already be preparing to get out while you still can.

No preparation needed, when they refuse to let me in, I'll go somewhere else.

Plenty of local choices, Cambodia, Vietnam, Philippines all good.

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21 hours ago, gamini said:

Of course they're trying to stop people living permanently here as a tourist, and evading paying any tax .Most countries in the world limit tourist visas to 6 months of the year. If you stay more than six months in a calendar year, you are subject to full income tax. So why all these complaints. Thailand is still much easier to stay as a tourist for .quite long term compared with other countries. But I guess the posters complaining about this never been anywhere else.

 

Most countries have reciprocal tax agreements, you only pay income tax in one country.

My pension is sourced in the UK and taxed in the UK, doesn't matter how long I stay in Thailand, they ain't getting any income tax from me.

 

All their silly rules just make me spend money in other countries.

I have to leave every 90 days = spending big time in Vietnam, Cambodia, Philippines.

Money Thailand could have had if they allowed me to party in Hua Hin, Pattaya, Bangkok.

I'm happy enough to spend my holiday money outside the country.

Edited by BritManToo
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39 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

The definition of a tourist is a person who travels from his normal residence to another place for a temporary period for a purpose not to work or earn income.

Whatever the definition, there appears to be a risk involved in stringing a number of tourist visa visits together over a year which may appear to an IO that the person concerned is really living in Thailand. It is that perceived additional risk which is giving some guys pause for thought as to whether they wish to take on the additional requirements of other visa types or move on.

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On 2/14/2019 at 8:42 AM, JackThompson said:

That's why you haven't had problems - less than a month each time.  They think by your shorter stays you are not "putting down roots", and becoming a "threat" of becoming a permanent fixture.

 

Yes, but those were "snowbirds" - so stayed 5 months or so - usually via two closely spaced visits.  Others were longer-stayers in years past (one had Non-O-married in his past).  Anyone staying for months takes the risk (from immigration's perspective) of developing relationships with Thais, so seen as a particularly dangerous threat of "sticking around." 

  

Anyone recall the USSR days, when Western visitors were each followed around by a "minder" - who would not permit them to have more than very-brief conversations with the locals?  Of course it is no where near that bad, now - but it's the same sort of mentality at work. 

Nah. Thailand doesn't care who you associate with, it's not North Korea or Myanmar. When I first went to Myanmar (specifically Yangon, this didn't apply to day visits to border cities like Kawthoung or Tachilek) people would follow me around whenever I spoke with someone that wasn't a street vendor. That no longer happens now.

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On 2/15/2019 at 10:43 AM, JackThompson said:

This is misinformation. 

 

First, you would need to find how "serious tourist" is defined in Thai Law (immigration act).  In Thailand, this is defined as "not working" and "having money to spend."  Many people do "tourist type" things for long periods of time, if they can afford it.


Many people no longer rely on brick/mortar jobs for their incomes.  None would be legally "booted out" - unless on overstay or working a Thai job illegally. 

 

Pre-screening visitors by providing Visas is a good idea.  A Tourist Visa is the "proper" visa for those not working a Thai job - just spending their foreign-sourced money here.  Visitors can stay until their permitted-stay ends.  They can return if they obtain permission in the form of a Visa or visa-exempt entry.

 

There might not be any reason visitors would ever need to go to their passport-country.  In any case, this is irrelevant to their meeting the qualifications to enter Thailand. 

 

If visitors only stay a "few weeks" at most, they will have less time to spend money than those staying longer.  This is not helpful to Thailand.  There are businesses which have closed, and many condos empty, due to immigration's policy changes.  Those bad policies, which hurt the country and citizens, should be reversed ASAP (if they care about their citizens).

 

Visitors are not a zero sum game.  Nothing exapts are doing is preventing short-term visitor.  Those short-term visitors are the types of visitors who keep Walking Street in business, and are given No Problems by Immigration.  Expat's money will be missed by the businesses where they currently spend it. 

 

The only visitors degrading the Thailand Experience are the mass-package-tour types, who are causing crowding and traffic problems.  They might deter visitors - not expats.  You should speak to those working at restaurants and confirm that they don't want Westerners business and tips, or want to have those jobs at all.  I can assure you, they would not rather earn min-wage (if that) working at a "package-tour" stop (though the worker:guest ratio is lower at those, so probably can't get even that).  Walking behind a guy with a stick and gawking at things is not spending money.  The locals detest them - even moto-guys have spontaneously pointed and complain to me about it.  If you got to know those who work in Tourist areas, they will tell you this in person.

Lots of good points you made except that Thailand, rightfully (just like most other countries) doesn't consider someone who spends months and months in the country as a tourist. If done once and not repeated in a few years, maybe, but if someone keeps coming and going, spending 4-5 months or more here every year as a tourist, this starts to look a bit suspect. As it would in the west. Immigration officials know that many "tourists" are getting up to no good, working illegally etc. so that's why they are suspicious. There are other visa types to suit such individuals, who will then not be scrutinized when spending a lot of time here.

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On 2/15/2019 at 3:43 AM, JackThompson said:

This is misinformation. 

 

First, you would need to find how "serious tourist" is defined in Thai Law (immigration act).  In Thailand, this is defined as "not working" and "having money to spend."  Many people do "tourist type" things for long periods of time, if they can afford it.


Many people no longer rely on brick/mortar jobs for their incomes.  None would be legally "booted out" - unless on overstay or working a Thai job illegally. 

 

Pre-screening visitors by providing Visas is a good idea.  A Tourist Visa is the "proper" visa for those not working a Thai job - just spending their foreign-sourced money here.  Visitors can stay until their permitted-stay ends.  They can return if they obtain permission in the form of a Visa or visa-exempt entry.

 

There might not be any reason visitors would ever need to go to their passport-country.  In any case, this is irrelevant to their meeting the qualifications to enter Thailand. 

 

This is disinformation.  When foreigners are here on back to back tourist visas or are here for months in a year on tourist visas, you don't need to be an IO to know that they are actually living here and it has nothing to do with tourism.  You need to stop peddling the use tourist visas as a means to live in Thailand when it is in fact the wrong visa type for their purpose.  Why not you advice them to get the appropriate visa instead?

 

Edited by farangx
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23 hours ago, farangx said:

This is disinformation.  When foreigners are here on back to back tourist visas or are here for months in a year on tourist visas, you don't need to be an IO to know that they are actually living here and it has nothing to do with tourism.  You need to stop peddling the use tourist visas as a means to live in Thailand when it is in fact the wrong visa type for their purpose.  Why not you advice them to get the appropriate visa instead?

 

So, even though they are acting identically to a tourist - beach, travel, spending-money, not working, etc - they are "not a tourist" when they cross what line of "time being a tourist in Thailand?"  To my knowledge, no such line exists.

 

And, as pointed out earlier, being gone for extended periods between entries does not prevent problems with IOs.

 

I cannot advise them to get a visa more appropriate for behaving exactly like a tourist, other than a Tourist Visa.

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23 hours ago, farangx said:

This is disinformation.  When foreigners are here on back to back tourist visas or are here for months in a year on tourist visas, you don't need to be an IO to know that they are actually living here and it has nothing to do with tourism.  You need to stop peddling the use tourist visas as a means to live in Thailand when it is in fact the wrong visa type for their purpose.  Why not you advice them to get the appropriate visa instead?

I guess my main questions are

  1. How much time are you allowed to spend enjoying Thailand before you are no longer tourist? Apart from length of time in the country, are there other factors that determine whether someone is a tourist? [Thai law is silent on the subject, except saying you cannot work.]
  2. What is the appropriate visa type when you want to continue enjoying what Thailand has to offer, but apparently have crossed the time threshold and cannot any longer be regarded as a tourist? 
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8 minutes ago, BritTim said:

I guess my main questions are

  1. How much time are you allowed to spend enjoying Thailand before you are no longer tourist? Apart from length of time in the country, are there other factors that determine whether someone is a tourist? [Thai law is silent on the subject, except saying you cannot work.]
  2. What is the appropriate visa type when you want to continue enjoying what Thailand has to offer, but apparently have crossed the time threshold and cannot any longer be regarded as a tourist? 

A Tourist can legally remain in Thailand for up to 9 months if a ME tourist visa is purchased from a Thai Embassy/Consulate in their own country.

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