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Saying it like it is or dashing a patient's hopes? Cancer patient told to prepare for death


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1 hour ago, DrTuner said:

Word of advice, never believe a single word out of a Thai's mouth, doctor or not. Verify with farangs and that at least twice too. No matter what the issue is.

 

The 'Don't Thai to me' didn't just appear out of thin air.

I take it you are married to a Thai and have Thai children.  I trust my Thai wife.  On the other hand my father and grandfather were German and lied to me every other word when I was a child. 

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Never listen to these clowns here, especially Bangkok Pattaya Hospital I have two friends who were diagnosed with cancer and advised to return to the U.K. to see out there remaining days. On returning home to a 1st world country neither had any form of cancer and returned to The Land of Scams, happy to say both still alive and kicking to this day many years later. 

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6 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I take it you are married to a Thai and have Thai children.  I trust my Thai wife.  On the other hand my father and grandfather were German and lied to me every other word when I was a child. 

It was the late German FIL that managed to squeeze out the Thainess from my family, Pioneering work, really, took him two decades. Good job too.

 

Of course living here it's a constant battle to keep it out.

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My friend with Leukaemia finished his second bout of chemo and they said "See you in 2 weeks"   He died 5 days later (in his sleep) without knowing. Never even had time to sort out things or say goodbye to his family. Doctors were not honest with him obviously

 

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5 hours ago, balo said:

Why is liver cancer so common in Thailand , anyone knows ? 

 

 

perhaps 2

 

# liver parasite common in bu bala sauce known to cause liver cancer

 

# alcohol

 

possible the 2 can potentiate each other

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2 hours ago, whitfield said:

6 years ago I went to Bangkok Hospital for a full check-up.  Just as I was leaving the hospital the doctor came rushing up and asked me to go back to her surgery.  She showed me the x ray and said she didn't like the look of a shadow on the lungs.  Could I see the chest specialist.  I went down to see him and he said:  Ah. Mr Vine, I'm afraid you have TB or lung cancer.  We need to do an MRI to determine which it is.

 

I spent 4 hours regretting every spliff I'd ever smoked and then when the results came through there was nothing on the image.  In my view his behaviour was nothing if not totally unprofessional.  I strongly suspect they just wanted another 15,000 Baht for the scan.

 

 

 

an unexplained shadow on cxr given smoking history is certainly worth investigating.

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1 hour ago, Caine said:

Never listen to these clowns here, especially Bangkok Pattaya Hospital I have two friends who were diagnosed with cancer and advised to return to the U.K. to see out there remaining days. On returning home to a 1st world country neither had any form of cancer and returned to The Land of Scams, happy to say both still alive and kicking to this day many years later. 

Unfortunately I know of a story like that after a few million baht spent here went back to England and they said to him you dont have cancer, I also know of a Thai lady in BKK where they said she had cancer and she didn't, shower of [email protected]

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A friend of mine was diagnosed with cancer at a Thai hospital and given 6 months to live. He went back to England where doctors informed him the diagnosis was correct, but that he could also be cured! He lived and eventually returned to Thailand.

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Healthcare in Thailand is expensive, so in a sense it is nice from the doctor that she prevents the family from spending more on the hospital, if classic treatment can't help anymore.

If i would get news like this, it would be a good point in time to try an alternative cancer treatment, like marihuana. There is much evidence around claiming that concentrated marihuana paste can cure even stage 4 cancers.
Governments around the world are in the process of legalising marihuana for medicinal use because they can't cover up the health benefits anymore.

 

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2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Wow, I hope you don't have any Thai relatives, especially kids.

I know a guy like you who comes out with this racist ***** , despite being married to a Thai. His kids have grown up thinking that half of them is imperfect.

 

Remarkable that I should read this today.

 

Earlier I was wondering what happens to the minds of children, who grow up watching one parent burning sticks and leaving fizzy drinks in front of a dolls house, while the other thinks it's all complete b*******.

 

I cannot imagine relationships, containing that particular conflict, being formed in the contemporary societies from which most expats originate.

 

But it must be close to the norm for "mixed" families whose fathers post here (given the virulent hatred towards religious/"spiritual" belief so frequently displayed).

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, robblok said:

I disagree with your father, a larger portion does die and it would be useful for them to know to have their affairs in order. I can see his side of it but the small group that does survive against all odds does not weigh up to the much larger group kept in the dark unable to make their final arrangements and spend their final time in a meaningful way. 

Totally agree it is the Doctor’s responsibility to tell the truth false truth is no truth.

However to be fair it may have been in an era when different standards were applied.

I accept that one day I am going to die as does every living thing when it happens it’s my time.

As far as the Thai people are concerned I have attended many funerals and they seem to accept death better than Westerners perhaps all part of being a Buddhist.

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1 hour ago, ChipButty said:

Unfortunately I know of a story like that after a few million baht spent here went back to England and they said to him you dont have cancer, I also know of a Thai lady in BKK where they said she had cancer and she didn't, shower of [email protected]

Yes and have a look at how many misdiagnosed cases happen elsewhere and in particular how many preventable deaths occur in UK hospitals each year

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9 hours ago, PJPom said:

All that I would want is pain relief if necessary, chemo only seems to prolong life without regard to the quality.

I put forward my view concerning me only, a more youthful person should make their own decisions.

The Doctor May be blunt but should she lie ?

Of course she should not lie.

 

But her tone and manner were unnecessarily harsh.

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Liver cancer is fatal....I believe the doctor is giving false hope telling a patient has up to 2 years....

 

Usually liver cancer patients go very quickly....

 

the readers are not getting the full medical history....you don’t have healthy people waking up with liver CA...I guarentee you this patient has a history of CA....breast lung spleen kidney - somewhere was the primary CA site or sites and it finally in the liver....   

 

ballgame, end of story, warm up the fat lady’s vocals....the doctor could have done it with a metaphor...

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7 hours ago, ratcatcher said:

There is a lot of alcohol of substandard quality consumed, especially lao khao upcountry. 

The last two funerals I went to were due to liver cancer. Neither people drank but did eat Pla Ra as others have already posted, raw fish and liver flukes. Very common in the North east but thankfully awareness is growing and we should see this diminish in the near future.

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7 hours ago, blazes said:

 

 

Yes, well put.  The thing is, every single person in the world (and on this thread!) is a dying human being.  As Shakespeare put it: "we are born astride the grave".

The problem is that, especially in the West, we somehow expect to be immortal.  Only the other guy, down the street, has to die.  And if some doctor tells me I have X months to live, I  will "battle" this horrible enemy called Death (Cancer whatever).

This notion of "battling" Death is what makes us miserable (and allows the pharmaceutical companies (not to mention the Naturopaths and all such quacks)  to make millions from our fear of Death.

 

 

 

I might be a little out on the exact figure but I recall reading 75% of the Oz health budget is spent on people in the final three months of their life.

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5 hours ago, Christophers200 said:

How is bad news imparted "gently"? 

There was an excellent hospital documentary on Oz tv a few years ago. Some people recovered, some died but the show followed them through to the end, with their permission presumably.

One guy was dying from melanoma which had riddled his body. He knew the specialist well and after brain surgery the specialist simply said the prognosis was poor. The guy accepted that without emotion - he knew it too. Another doctor had to tell a patient she was dying - he use used the words, telling her what had now developed in her case - we can't cure that. Same response from the patient

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4 hours ago, Jaggg88 said:

It was always thought that they could never repair injured spinal cords but they are making great progress with regenerating nerves injuries so don't give up hope Colin.

Not sure about regenerating nerves but digitally bypassing the broken area is showing promise.

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9 hours ago, Shiver said:

Remember also that the doctors can tell their truth, whilst at the same time being wrong.

 

I was told by no less than 4 independent doctors that I was screwed (huge cirrhosis of the liver "entering end stage" was the phrase of one of them) and that a transplant was the only option, which would be difficult to find.  One even said "you have 12 months, 15 at the outside".

 

I chose not to accept their truth, and after a very shaken and disturbed few days (I had to sign a waiver to be allowed on the plane home to Udon as I was so unsteady and so yellow and weak, which would be fine if I could actually write at that time), I got my act together and started 'google researching' (yeah the kind doctors don't like you to do).

 

My last scan was 2 months ago, and the results were same as the year before and the year before - It's fine, fully functional and no signs of any issues.

 

"Must have been a misdiagnosis" - yeah all 4 of them, each with their own ultrasound and bloodwork.


What I'm getting at is, if a doctor tells you you're gonna die in x weeks/months, and you believe them, then they're probably right.

If you choose to believe in yourself, then they might still turn out to be right, but cross that off your list of choices and don't give it any thought or energy - starve that thought, and get your mind to work towards your intentions.  You've got to dig deep and really believe in yourself, that you can do, or at least learn to do whatever it takes.


In my case I found a mushroom powder that was in Materia Medica but had little exposure to the alophatic world. Cost me all of $85 and faithful administration each morning in a small glass of water for the first 90 days, and after turning that corner it was a cake walk.  For people with different issues then of course the assist would likely be different.  Heck, if you're going to ground soon anyhow, why not have a good 'ole fight and die laughing?

 

My father was given 2 years to live when he was 50. He turned 83 a few weeks ago. Stubborn old bugger says he still has a few more left in him yet.

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Thais don’t like to be up front and will lie if given the chance for several reasons, including to save your face and not their own.

 

But from a doctor... give it to me straight.

 

Thats also what 2nd and 3rd opinions are for. Just in case.

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15 hours ago, sweatalot said:

I have been working with a lot of dying humans - they all knew.

It is not simply telling the truth or lying - there is a third way: withholding the truth until it is requested, and there is a difference between offering a fatal truth - or force it on someone

Patients sometimes are not ready to hear the truth. And you don't know. Then it could be a good idea to start slowly, giving them a piece of truth that would make them ask for more or just the full truth. If they don't ask I'd leave it this way. May be next time they will be ready. I don't think it is a good idea to force the truth on someone who does not want to know. But always be ready to tell the truth when it is wanted. If you want to find out you could start with a question "what do you think how your ailment will go on?" 

I understand what you are saying, but I am not sure I agree:  as you say "they all knew" -that they were dying. So why not start the conversation right away: "You are dying, how do you want to spend you're last days".  Some, i am sure, would not appreciate this approach immediately, but it would help them realize and live with reality of their situation.  Why wait.  Why support a lie?

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16 hours ago, robblok said:

I think the doctor is right by telling the truth. Lying should not be done by doctors.

I agree. But there are more ways to skinning a cat. Showing some compassion would help. Let's hope the patient lives as long as a relation did after being told she would die soon. She stopped taking the prescribed medicine and went on herbal treatment. She lived for more than five years with a decent quality of life.

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