"Border buster" shows why Brexit frontier checks in N.Ireland would matter

[evadgib]

2 hours ago, smedly said:

Ireland wants its cake - free NHS - free access to UK benefits not to mention jobs and housing - not too many are rushing back to ROI - lived there and its not pretty 

One reason the illegal crossing points were kept open during the troubles were to allow the 'away-day' RoI citizens to turn up at post offices clutching their 'I'm British' paperwork on dole days or to blag prescription meds or treatment on the NHS paid for by the very people they despise...

[smedly]

3 minutes ago, evadgib said:

One reason the illegal crossing points were kept open during the troubles were to allow the 'away-day' RoI citizens to turn up at post offices clutching their 'I'm British' paperwork on dole days or to blag prescription meds or treatment on the NHS paid for by the very people they despise...

100% correct and it still goes on and is nothing to do with EU

[Chippy151]

Why is so much anti Irish drivel allowed on this topic?

[dick dasterdly]

2 minutes ago, Chippy151 said:

Why is so much anti Irish drivel allowed on this topic?

Anti-Irish?  How did you come to this conclusion?

[evadgib]

10 minutes ago, Chippy151 said:

Why is so much anti Irish drivel allowed on this topic?

Feel free to 'Bercow' anything that isn't on topic. The only thing we're 'anti' is the hypocrisy.

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

Accept the govt's deal, or by-pass MPs (remain) desires - and just leave.

Like I said, Brexiteers are scared. 

 

2 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Yes agree. Do you think the EU will let them? No need to reply as we know the answer.

Right, we know the answer. All EU member states are sovereign nations, so a referendum is completely up to them and the EU doesn’t have any say in that. As the past shows. 

[tomacht8]

50 minutes ago, evadgib said:

One reason the illegal crossing points were kept open during the troubles were to allow the 'away-day' RoI citizens to turn up at post offices clutching their 'I'm British' paperwork on dole days or to blag prescription meds or treatment on the NHS paid for by the very people they despise...

So Not worry.

Today we have Internet, Email, Onlineshops and delivery Services.

[oldrunner]

There would be no "troubles if the "Occupying Brits" would get the hell out of IRELAND.

[Laughing Gravy]

1 hour ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Right, we know the answer. All EU member states are sovereign nations, so a referendum is completely up to them and the EU doesn’t have any say in that. As the past shows. 

 

 

[Grouse]

7 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

That's right banging the EU mantra lets keep asking them until they get the answer we want.

 

You are right nobody thought of NI as a problem as there isn't one. it is an EU constructed issue to keep the UK in the EU.

 

How about giving every country in the EU a vote if they would like to stay or leave? I know that answer already.

There is a significant Eurosceptic minority across the EU but nowhere does it approach a majority. Over the past couple of years, Euroscepticism has waned.

[fvw53]

20 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

Give us some actual examples of what risk there is to the EU if the border stays open after Brexit. 

 

Somebody said previously that sub-standard beef could be exported to the UK, then re-labled, then transported to RoI and then into EU countries. The cost of doing all that would wipe out the profit, and also the whole process would eat into the beef's sell by date. So this is not going to happen. 

 

If the EU were to install a border the troubles would start again. It would re-start a war. People will die. 

 

Which option do you think the peace loving EU will take - leave the border open and risk a few fast boiling kettles making their way into Dublin, or install a border and start a war?

 

There will be no border! 

 

 

the process you describe worked very well before the end of East Germany for manufacturers such as IKEA /  West Germany refused to accept there was a border between them and East Germany / IKEA manufactured in the former East Germany and then transported it to its facilities in West Germany from where the furniture would be sold without import tax in any EU member state

[Laughing Gravy]

5 minutes ago, Grouse said:

There is a significant Eurosceptic minority across the EU but nowhere does it approach a majority. Over the past couple of years, Euroscepticism has waned.

I will have to disagree with you. Maybe ask the Italians, The Hungarians, Greeks, Polish as examples.

 

https://www.dailyfx.com/forex/fundamental/article/special_report/2018/11/16/Which-Countries-Want-to-Leave-the-EU-After-Brexit-Euro-Analysis.html

 

[Grouse]

5 hours ago, smedly said:

won't happen - people have moved on realising that mass murder or threat therein solves nothing, yes the are a few thick heads running around confused about were their income stream and power went and are trying to get back there but generally terrorism in Ireland is "dead"

How naive! How ill informed!

[Basil B]

 

5 hours ago, smedly said:

won't happen - people have moved on realising that mass murder or threat therein solves nothing, yes the are a few thick heads running around confused about were their income stream and power went and are trying to get back there but generally terrorism in Ireland is "dead"

It is still a tinderbox with many with generations of ingrained hatred that will nether leave them till they die.

 

Quote

BELFAST — A car bomb on the streets of most British cities would be big news. National TV reporters would be rushed to the scene. Front pages would carry dramatic images. Politicians would be pressured to tighten security.

But that didn't happen following the bomb on Saturday evening in Derry (also known as Londonderry), close to the western border of Northern Ireland. Instead, British and European media treated it, for the most part, with something of a shrug. "These things happen in Northern Ireland," the TV strap-line might have read.

Meanwhile, few people are asking in the aftermath of the attack whether the long-running political crisis that has brought the Stormont assembly to a standstill and the Westminster impasse over Brexit have anything to do with it. They should be.

https://www.politico.eu/article/the-derry-northern-ireland-bomb-is-a-warning-we-cant-ignore-good-friday-agreement/

   

[Grouse]

5 hours ago, smedly said:

Ireland wants its cake - free NHS - free access to UK benefits not to mention jobs and housing - not too many are rushing back to ROI - lived there and its not pretty 

One can not take Brexiters seriously as they appear to know absolutely nothing

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_Europe_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

 

https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/find-a-service/eligibility.html

[Laughing Gravy]

2 hours ago, Chippy151 said:

Why is so much anti Irish drivel allowed on this topic?

I am very pro Irish and have deep family roots. I do feel that the Irish are been taken for a ride.

 

Shame they didn't stick to their principles in 2008 and told the EU to do one over the Lisbon Treaty. I am sure they will see sense one day.

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, oldrunner said:

There would be no "troubles if the "Occupying Brits" would get the hell out of IRELAND.

If we simply upsticks they'll be a lot worse.

[Grouse]

Ulster is beyond the Pale

[CharlieH]

reported post removed.

[Chippy151]

5 hours ago, smedly said:

Ireland wants its cake - free NHS - free access to UK benefits not to mention jobs and housing - not too many are rushing back to ROI - lived there and its not pretty 

It's a lot prettier than the north of England.

Loads of Irish moving back. 

You already have your cake - the 6 counties. 

[rixalex]

5 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

I haven’t heard a remainer fighting another referendum. Brexiteers are scared ???? 

You don't think that might possibly have something to do with the fact that remainers lost the last one, and so if there is another one, the worst they can do is lose again. Whereas leave won. Why would leave want to have to win a vote they have already won?

 

And if remain wins this new referendum that you are so keen to have, how many of them do you imagine will then be keen to have another vote, just to make sure the country really wants to stay in the EU? 

 

The answer is, in case you are struggling, the same number who would be calling for another referendum now, had they won in 2016. Zero.

 

They are what is commonly known as sore losers. Unable to accept any result apart from when they win. All the more reason to not have another referendum.

 

Show you can respect vote outcomes first, before droning on about how you want another one.

[welovesundaysatspace]

2 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

 

 

Thanks, that does confirm what I just said: Member states are sovereign and as such can decide or do whatever they want, including voting again, without the EU having any say in it.  

 

There is a mistake in your table though: The EU never proposed anything to those countries’ electorates. That’s those countries’ government, and you should know that from the Brexit referendum. I can’t remember the EU holding it. 

 

 

 

 

[Donutz]

9 hours ago, smedly said:

there is a border already

There currently is a border without checks (on people, goods, services or capital ) , an open border. This because both the UK and Ireland are in the EU. For that to remain so, at the very least the UK would need to be an EEA member (Norway,  Switzerland).

 

If the UK breaks all ties and wants to go with say trade agreements and such instead, then Ireland becomes an external border for the EU. Outside borders need protections. The Irish-UK border would need to be closed. Requiring Ireland to put up checkpoints, barriers and such at the border. 

[nontabury]

6 hours ago, smedly said:

Are all the people here that advocate remaining in the EU happy with it transforming from a trading block to a Military power ?

 

I find that very disurbing

This is a very good point, not just about the E.u’s intention to create an E.u army. But even more importantly, what do those unelected Bureaucrats in Brussels have in store for a future E.u.

 

[nontabury]

4 hours ago, oldrunner said:

There would be no "troubles if the "Occupying Brits" would get the hell out of IRELAND.

Don’t moan to us. Convince the majority of the people who actually live in N.I.

 As for those Brits in the rest of the U.K. I beleive they would take the stance, up to them,if that’s what they want. Not like the unelected Bureaucrats in Brussels and their British lapdogs, who are trying to keep the U.K in this so called union,against the expressed Democratic wishes of the electorate.

 

[Donutz]

17 minutes ago, nontabury said:

This is a very good point, not just about the E.u’s intention to create an E.u army. But even more importantly, what do those unelected Bureaucrats in Brussels have in store for a future E.u.

 

You know proposals,  legislations,  directives etc have to go by the European parliament (Which you elect) or the European Council (in which every member is represented via the national government that is in power at the time)? 

 

So save some frustration for government or Euro Mps not doing what you would like them to do in Brussels. If a member state says no, there is little Brussels can do but keep on working on a proposal that has majority or universal support.

 

Having said that, just like national parliament and Senate, there certainly remains room for democratic improvement. Some want to do that from within as a members  others want out.. fine by me, to each their own. 

[nontabury]

20 minutes ago, Donutz said:

There currently is a border without checks (on people, goods, services or capital ) , an open border. This because both the UK and Ireland are in the EU. For that to remain so, at the very least the UK would need to be an EEA member (Norway,  Switzerland).

 

If the UK breaks all ties and wants to go with say trade agreements and such instead, then Ireland becomes an external border for the EU. Outside borders need protections. The Irish-UK border would need to be closed. Requiring Ireland to put up checkpoints, barriers and such at the border. 

 Who exactly is going to require the I.R to put up such a checkpoint, as the P.M. of the I.R has stated categorically that their will be no such boarder/checkpoint. And the U.K government has also stated they will not erect one. 

 Now who does that leave= the puppet master in Brussels.

 

 

[CG1 Blue]

5 hours ago, fvw53 said:

the process you describe worked very well before the end of East Germany for manufacturers such as IKEA /  West Germany refused to accept there was a border between them and East Germany / IKEA manufactured in the former East Germany and then transported it to its facilities in West Germany from where the furniture would be sold without import tax in any EU member state

Ok, so can you explain how that scenario would play out post Brexit please.  Are you suggesting a company like IKEA would have furniture manufactured in NI and have it transported to the RoI? I don't see the benefits of that for an IKEA. 

[welovesundaysatspace]

4 hours ago, rixalex said:

You don't think that might possibly have something to do with the fact that remainers lost the last one, and so if there is another one, the worst they can do is lose again. Whereas leave won. Why would leave want to have to win a vote they have already won?

 

And if remain wins this new referendum that you are so keen to have, how many of them do you imagine will then be keen to have another vote, just to make sure the country really wants to stay in the EU? 

 

The answer is, in case you are struggling, the same number who would be calling for another referendum now, had they won in 2016. Zero.

 

They are what is commonly known as sore losers. Unable to accept any result apart from when they win. All the more reason to not have another referendum.

 

Show you can respect vote outcomes first, before droning on about how you want another one.

When I’m sure I’ll win I don’t need five paragraphs to explain myself. I would just say: ok, go ahead. 

[Laughing Gravy]

15 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Thanks, that does confirm what I just said: Member states are sovereign and as such can decide or do whatever they want, including voting again, without the EU having any say in it.  

 

There is a mistake in your table though: The EU never proposed anything to those countries’ electorates. That’s those countries’ government, and you should know that from the Brexit referendum. I can’t remember the EU holding it.