Warned at DMK on my 4th entry- 2 SETV's and 2nd Visa exempt by air

[Tomtomtom69]

And as I've already stated, other countries are getting in on the act too. Myanmar is starting to scrutinize arrivals a little despite tourism going down and since 2017 so is Cambodia. 1 year extensions without documentation such as a work permit are no longer possible. Now you get a 6-month visa and have to leave the country after that. Previously one could live in Cambodia, one year at a time without ever needing to leave the country - this is no longer possible if you don't have a job or aren't retired.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

18 minutes ago, Tomtomtom69 said:

And as I've already stated, other countries are getting in on the act too. Myanmar is starting to scrutinize arrivals a little despite tourism going down and since 2017 so is Cambodia. 1 year extensions without documentation such as a work permit are no longer possible. Now you get a 6-month visa and have to leave the country after that. Previously one could live in Cambodia, one year at a time without ever needing to leave the country - this is no longer possible if you don't have a job or aren't retired.

 

In another thread in the past week, there was a Khmer Times article on Cambodia's rating for international retirement destinations, and that article mentioned Cambodia having a 3 year visa designed to attract retirees.

 

That's something I have/had never heard of re Cambodia before. But when I challenged on that point in the thread, at least one other poster came along and claimed such a visa is available for payment of some fee, but provided pretty much no other details.

 

Pretty much the only chatter I've heard here lately re Cambodia is about things getting tougher there re visas and staying, not that they have some kind of 3 year retirement visa option.

 

[fforest1]

37 minutes ago, Tomtomtom69 said:

And as I've already stated, other countries are getting in on the act too. Myanmar is starting to scrutinize arrivals a little despite tourism going down and since 2017 so is Cambodia. 1 year extensions without documentation such as a work permit are no longer possible. Now you get a 6-month visa and have to leave the country after that. Previously one could live in Cambodia, one year at a time without ever needing to leave the country - this is no longer possible if you don't have a job or aren't retired.

Thanks Tom you just proved my point....

There is no reason on Gods green earth Burma should tighten visas..They have very few tourist compared to other countries....

This tightening order is coming from some NGO non governmental organization..

Edited February 16, 2019 by fforest1

[Kaitangsou]

OMG...this reminds so much of the nightmarish visa regimes in places like China and I guess N Korea...thx God, and I am not even religious, but here in Philippines I have been coming up on 36 months consecutive stay with 2 months or 6 months extensions at one of the many immigration offices scattered throughout...never had a single question throw at me, and couple of times overstayed without any problems...Thailand...BRRRRRR...one of the many reasons I hope never to be back...last visit was 10 years ago...Philippines ROCKS!!

 

Francois Williams - YT

[fforest1]

8 minutes ago, Kaitangsou said:

OMG...this reminds so much of the nightmarish visa regimes in places like China and I guess N Korea...thx God, and I am not even religious, but here in Philippines I have been coming up on 36 months consecutive stay with 2 months or 6 months extensions at one of the many immigration offices scattered throughout...never had a single question throw at me, and couple of times overstayed without any problems...Thailand...BRRRRRR...one of the many reasons I hope never to be back...last visit was 10 years ago...Philippines ROCKS!!

 

Francois Williams - YT

lol.....I hear you....

[JackThompson]

On 2/16/2019 at 12:07 PM, Tomtomtom69 said:

And as I've already stated, other countries are getting in on the act too. Myanmar is starting to scrutinize arrivals a little despite tourism going down and since 2017 so is Cambodia. 1 year extensions without documentation such as a work permit are no longer possible. Now you get a 6-month visa and have to leave the country after that. Previously one could live in Cambodia, one year at a time without ever needing to leave the country - this is no longer possible if you don't have a job or aren't retired.

In Cambodia, You just need a work permit - not a "job" - from what I was told.  Though that does make it cost about $600/yr - so a bit higher than Vietnam, now.

 

Can you imagine Thailand giving you a 6-mo Visa to get your documentation together?  Cambodia's "tightening" doesn't even rate on a Thailand scale.

Edited February 17, 2019 by JackThompson

[JackThompson]

On 2/15/2019 at 3:35 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

The OP didn't specify the time relations between his various entries -- whether they were all back-to-back, or whether he had any extended time away/back in his home country or otherwise outside Thailand.

 

If they were all back to back or in close proximity, I'd imagine the IO was simply presuming the OP was using visa exempt entries and tourist visas to basically live in Thailand -- which obviously isn't the purpose of those kinds of entries.

 

If he had done 4 visa exempt entries in a year, each separated by a month or two or more back in his home country, I'm guessing the odds of a problem with Immigration would have been less.

 

Although there is no legal reason to deny entry for not having "extended time away," even a month or more "out time" and returning with a valid Tourist Visa has not been shown to prevent problems with immigration at bad entry-points, recently. 

 

On 2/15/2019 at 4:11 PM, KhaoYai said:

Seems fair enough to me - you are in effect, living in Thailand but not using the correct way of doing so. That's exactly what the Thai authorities are trying to prevent.

He seems to be making longer visits with a week or so out each time (cannot hold down a job doing that).  To be lawful, "not using the correct way" would need to be narrowed to a specified reason for rejecting-entry, as listed in the immigration act.

[MiNombreEsFicticious]

On 2/15/2019 at 4:31 PM, fforest1 said:

 Thailand is becoming more developed and as such is scrutinizing who is coming more closely than in years/decades past.

Wrong.....

There is a visa tightening going on across the board in many countries now...

Why?

You can fill in the blank....

Thailand is becoming something not even close to "more developed".  Hostile, xenophobic, neurotic, frustrated, intellectually deficient,.. I'll stop now. 

[lkv]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

Cambodia's "tightening" doesn't even rate on a Thailand scale.

Because it's not as developed as Thailand. Wait until it becomes more developed and judge Immigration then.

 

Don't forget that only 6 years ago people were sending passports to Hull UK for Thai multi entry nonB's, with some business invitation leaflets.

 

The Cambodian government does not really fancy "barangs" either, as they call them.

Edited February 17, 2019 by lkv

[yogavnture]

this guy putting the fear of god in to me?   i come i nov. i stay 2 weeks i go vietnam a month. i come back 2 weeks i go india one month  i come back in jan and stay 50 days with one extension.........then i go phill.  and come back for a week and then go home.  done this for 15 years.........i think under no circumstance i would have an issue?  i never stay the full 30 days. thats a plus for me.  also i have a history on computer doing same thing.  i will say that this last time when i got extension at a small immigration office they put a stamp in my passport that says i must report every 60 or 90 days.  (forgot if it says 60 or 90)  i think that was just a mistake by the officer as i dont even plan on staying more than 50 days .   i never stay a full 60.  

[keysersoze276]

6 hours ago, yogavnture said:

this guy putting the fear of god in to me?   i come i nov. i stay 2 weeks i go vietnam a month. i come back 2 weeks i go india one month  i come back in jan and stay 50 days with one extension.........then i go phill.  and come back for a week and then go home.  done this for 15 years.........i think under no circumstance i would have an issue?  i never stay the full 30 days. thats a plus for me.  also i have a history on computer doing same thing.  i will say that this last time when i got extension at a small immigration office they put a stamp in my passport that says i must report every 60 or 90 days.  (forgot if it says 60 or 90)  i think that was just a mistake by the officer as i dont even plan on staying more than 50 days .   i never stay a full 60.  

I've personally never heard of anyone getting pulled aside for 2 SETV's and 2 VE by air.  I was very surprised when it happened.  Others on this thread said they have heard of similar reports, but I don't know if any are for such few entires.  Regardless, I would be shocked if you had a problem.  From what you wrote I don't think anyone could imagine you are living in Thailand when you are spending months at a time outside of Thailand.  It just sounds like TH is your preferred holiday destination to me.  I generally spend most of the time I am given, then go off for a week or two before I come back.  Not a month or two.  Note that the IO didn't look at my passport for more than 30 seconds.  Just counted the 3 previous entries and said I have to talk to his supervisor.  I am sure if this happened to you the supervisor would see you are spending a lot of time in between visits.  Thinking back on it, I could have pointed out to him that I do spend enough time out that i am clearly not working here, but I was more focused on the medical history documents and future appointments.

I think you can rest easy.  If not, maybe we can share a tuk tuk across a land border.  As if that makes any sense whatsoever.  

[JackThompson]

23 hours ago, lkv said:

On 2/17/2019 at 12:38 PM, JackThompson said:

Cambodia's "tightening" doesn't even rate on a Thailand scale.

Because it's not as developed as Thailand. Wait until it becomes more developed and judge Immigration then.

If they shut us out while they still have poor citizens who benefit from the employment opportunities our spending creates, that would be idiotic.  I hope they are smarter, in this regard.

[stevenl]

On 2/15/2019 at 4:39 PM, keysersoze276 said:

Thank you for that.  Seems like I always read about it happening at DMK and rarely at Swampy, but I will heed your warning.  I don't understand the logic here.  Especially people getting visas and then getting denied at the airport.  I personally prefer to fly to different countries and cities and spend a week or so make a nice trip out of it rather than bussing it across a border and back.  And I do mean coming back with the proper visa.  Promised my gf I'd take her to Japan next.  So we would have to fly from Japan to Vientiane or something and take a bus to Bangkok or a second flight within Thailand to be safe?  I just don't get it.

"I just don't get it."

You're living in Thailand on tourist visa and visa exempt entries. Both are meant for tourists, not for people living in country. Get married, visa based on that, and all your problems are sorted.

[lkv]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

If they shut us out while they still have poor citizens who benefit from the employment opportunities our spending creates, that would be idiotic.  I hope they are smarter, in this regard.

Don't keep your fingers crossed ????

 

At the moment, they are lobbying the Japanese. It's all over the monitors in Phnom Pehn Airport as one arrives. One year, two years and three years business visas for them. 40 USD, 80 USD and 120 USD if my memory serves me right.  While for the rest, the tendency seems to be the other way (shorter).

Edited February 18, 2019 by lkv

[justin case]

if there is no legal limit to how many entries by air you can get, why all this S.HIT ?

[elviajero]

41 minutes ago, justin case said:

if there is no legal limit to how many entries by air you can get, why all this S.HIT ?

The number of entries aren’t the issue. It’s living in the country (time spent) as a tourist they are stopping. 

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, justin case said:

if there is no legal limit to how many entries by air you can get, why all this S.HIT ?

There are 2 different cases - entering Visa-Exempt or with a Visa.  In the case of a Visa, the Visa is issued by a Consul, subject to conditions enforced by the consul, and you are allowed by an IO to enter the country unless in violation of one of the limited reasons for denial specified in the Immigration Act.  There are no legal limits with a Tourist Visa, by land or air, on the number of entries or total-net time spent in the country.  You can be asked to show possession of 20K Baht in cash or travelers checks.

 

In the case of Visa-Exempt, immigration has both roles, and published a non-legal order setting limits on their use - even though these do not correspond with legal reasons to deny-entry.  With a proper appeals-court system, this overreach would be struck down, but that is unlikely to happen here.  There is also a valid, legal police order limiting entry by land-border on visa-exempt to 2x per calendar year, as well as published requirements for funds (10K Baht worth of cash), proof of where you will stay, and an air-ticket out of the country within 30-days

 

It is best to always enter with a Tourist Visa, as this legally limits the IOs discretion - but even that will not help if the IO does not respect the validity of the MFA's visas and the right of consuls to issue them as they see fit, and absent a chain-of-command willing to demand those under them follow the written-laws.  This "fiefom" reality is unfortunately the case at some airports (both in Bangkok) and the Anranyaprathet/Poipet land-crossing, which are run by those with no allegiance to the laws the swore to upload. 

 

It is wise for anyone with more than a few weeks total-time in the country per year to avoid these dangerous entry-points entirely, given there is no way of knowing what the IOs running them will do next.  Even within their little-world of made-up (and illegal) rules, there is no consistency - no "safe time limit" one can count on.  This situation has resulted in anarchy.

Edited April 4, 2019 by JackThompson

[lkv]

5 hours ago, JackThompson said:

In the case of Visa-Exempt, immigration has both roles, and published a non-legal order setting limits on their use - even though these do not correspond with legal reasons to deny-entry.  With a proper appeals-court system, this overreach would be struck down, but that is unlikely to happen here.  

 

 

It would not matter if there was a proper appeal system, visa exempt cannot be appealed. Only denial of entry from a visa can (theoretically).

 

5 hours ago, JackThompson said:

It is wise for anyone with more than a few weeks total-time in the country per year to avoid these dangerous entry-points entirely,

I find the time frame you are suggesting a bit overly cautious, I did 10 months last year and about 2 this year until I left at the beginning of March on this particular passport. And I only go through BKK and DMK. Although I started to avoid DMK, unless it's an entry derived from a Re-entry permit. 

 

 

Edited April 4, 2019 by lkv

[elviajero]

36 minutes ago, lkv said:

It would not matter if there was a proper appeal system, visa exempt cannot be appealed. Only denial of entry from a visa can (theoretically).

That’s wrong. It is only entries denied under section 12 (1) or (10), that cannot be appealed. It doesn’t matter if the entry is VE or with a visa.

 

For example;

Someone denied entry trying a 3rd VE entry at a land border should be denied under 12 (10) or (1) and could not appeal;

 

Whereas someone denied entering under VE by air or land under 12 (2) could appeal.

[PingRoundTheWorld]

On 2/17/2019 at 2:24 PM, lkv said:

Don't forget that only 6 years ago people were sending passports to Hull UK for Thai multi entry nonB's, with some business invitation leaflets.

And what changed in the last 5 years? It's not "Thailand" that is tightening immigration - none of the people doing this has been elected into office. It's not Thai people or even their elected officials who want us (all foreigners) gone. It's quite funny to hear it's getting "developed" considering recent politics.

[PingRoundTheWorld]

On 2/17/2019 at 9:16 PM, keysersoze276 said:

I've personally never heard of anyone getting pulled aside for 2 SETV's and 2 VE by air. 

My friend got questioned by an angry immigration officer on his second VE at DMK. His "crime"? Getting out of the country (to Taiwan) for one day and coming back. Just avoid DMK and you'll probably have no problems. And get a new clean passport.

[mngmn]

2 hours ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

Just avoid DMK and you'll probably have no problems.

Avoiding Thailand means that you will definitely have no problems.

Edited April 5, 2019 by mngmn

[ThaiBunny]

2 hours ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

And get a new clean passport.

What about the travelers who have a passport from two different countries?

[mngmn]

On 2/15/2019 at 4:39 PM, keysersoze276 said:

Thank you for that.  Seems like I always read about it happening at DMK and rarely at Swampy, but I will heed your warning.  I don't understand the logic here.  Especially people getting visas and then getting denied at the airport.  I personally prefer to fly to different countries and cities and spend a week or so make a nice trip out of it rather than bussing it across a border and back.  And I do mean coming back with the proper visa.  Promised my gf I'd take her to Japan next.  So we would have to fly from Japan to Vientiane or something and take a bus to Bangkok or a second flight within Thailand to be safe?  I just don't get it.

It's called a tourist 'hub'.

[JackThompson]

8 hours ago, lkv said:

13 hours ago, JackThompson said:

It is wise for anyone with more than a few weeks total-time in the country per year to avoid these dangerous entry-points entirely,

I find the time frame you are suggesting a bit overly cautious, I did 10 months last year and about 2 this year until I left at the beginning of March on this particular passport. And I only go through BKK and DMK. Although I started to avoid DMK, unless it's an entry derived from a Re-entry permit. 

 Yes - definitely overly cautious, since some IO can do anything they feel like.  There is no "safe amount" of past-time known, or "safe amount of time out before returning," or etc. 

[ThaiBunny]

I'll bump my earlier question in the hope someone will answer it.  If someone holds passports from two different countries, does Thai Immigration have some way of linking them to review previous travel history, visas etc?  Is the biometric information captured on entry going to alert the IO?

[mstevens]

32 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

I'll bump my earlier question in the hope someone will answer it.  If someone holds passports from two different countries, does Thai Immigration have some way of linking them to review previous travel history, visas etc?  Is the biometric information captured on entry going to alert the IO?

Others have posted in the past that, yes, the two passports from different countries are linked by Thai Immigration.

[keysersoze276]

12 minutes ago, mstevens said:

45 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

I'll bump my earlier question in the hope someone will answer it.  If someone holds passports from two different countries, does Thai Immigration have some way of linking them to review previous travel history, visas etc?  Is the biometric information captured on entry going to alert the IO?

 

 

12 minutes ago, mstevens said:

 Others have posted in the past that, yes, the two passports from different countries are linked by Thai Immigration.

I would argue that they maybe...just maybe can do that upon investigation.  I've never had my old cancelled passport "linked" to my new passport in the eyes of the immigration officer.  I know they are linked for sure, but they don't look for that.  I'm the OP here and that little guy looked at my passport for a few seconds then sent me to his supervisor who was only using his eyes.  Not a computer.  There were no computer searches or passport scans involved at all.  There is no pop-up alert.  It's just their discretion.  I'm not saying they aren't linked...I'm saying they don't bother with that.  Have you ever tried to order food online in Thailand?  Or tried to book a flight on Air Asia or whatever?  It takes three hours and ten phone calls!  lol.

[LomSak27]

On 4/5/2019 at 6:45 AM, PingRoundTheWorld said:

On 2/17/2019 at 9:16 PM, keysersoze276 said:

I've personally never heard of anyone getting pulled aside for 2 SETV's and 2 VE by air. 

My friend got questioned by an angry immigration officer on his second VE at DMK. His "crime"? Getting out of the country (to Taiwan) for one day and coming back. Just avoid DMK and you'll probably have no problems. And get a new clean passport.

 

Interesting OP, one question, and I apologize in advance if you answered it somewhere in there, I could not find it.  In what time frame are these  2 SETV and 2 VE by air within? (Less than a year, one year, year and a half,  two years)  Thanxs