When can I come back. How long can I stay. How often can I come back?

[onera1961]

4 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

Immigration's hasty and ill-thought through reforms will hit this type of expat hard in the coming year - many of those that affected are likely not yet aware of the changes, and will be in for a short sharp shock as they come to renew their extensions. 

Most older retirees will manage to stay here with their built up assets and family. With a Thai wife, it is only 40K/month and they can even get an ME Non-O with no financials and a little hassle of border crossing  every three months. They can also some how leverage their built in assets for a fixed amount of 400K. So, I don't see any problems for the vast majority in this group. 

 

The problems is for for single retirees who were able to survive with 30/40K without any asses - liquid or fixed. 40K is a good amount of money to live in Thailand for a single person if not visiting bars every day. I spent 10K rent (one bed room in Jomtian) + 2K utility. My food budget is 500 THB/per day. And 10K THB for entertainment. Little shy of 40K. 

 

In my opinion new retirees must have at least 2 million in liquid assets and 40K in monthly income for a comfortable stress-free living. This is the base amount. You add another 20K in monthly income if you're with a GF. Want to buy assets, increase your liquid assets. But I feel comfortable with liquid assets in my accounts, except a motor cycle for now and may be a car in the future. This is my simple formula. Now you add health expenses and insurance depending on your health condition and age. 
 

Edited April 2, 2019 by onera1961

[Thailand Outcast]

14 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

Very true, the effect has been disastrous. 

 

One of the grossly unfair aspects of the new rules is that it will force out long settled expats who can nonetheless still very much afford to live here and have been managing just fine on their monthly budget. Even with GBP-THB exchange rates at a 22 year low this year, Thailand has always had the advantage of a wide strata of possible spending levels... even now a monthly income of say 30-40000 baht would provide a better quality of life than would ever be possible back in the west, and in regional countries too if they've already paid for their home here. It's clear from the graph I attached that a current income of 40000 was worth 75000 back in 2004 (even 120,000 back then is on the brink of not being enough now). Obviously anyone here since that time will have ploughed many millions of baht into the local economy, supporting local businesses and possibly a Thai family.

 

Add to this the increasing likelihood that a long term retiree will have gone native and be living in a much cheaper part of the country, and may have sunk money into buying a home, furnishings, car etc, thus eliminating rental and most transport costs. With these overheads already paid for, Thailand would be as cheap a place for them to live as anywhere they could find in the world.

 

Immigration's hasty and ill-thought through reforms will hit this type of expat hard in the coming year - many of those that affected are likely not yet aware of the changes, and will be in for a short sharp shock as they come to renew their extensions. 

I agree.  For aging retirees, with their own property, it's difficult to spend 65k a month, unless you have expensive tastes.  Most want to live the quiet life.  

 

The problem for Thailand that I see in the future is, as the current generation of retirees come to pass (literately pass away) they will not be replaced by new retirees coming through, due to Thailand having a higher cost of living, currency exchange rates, and unfriendly visa laws.  

 

I can only see Thailand's loss as being other country's benefit.

 

It's sad that an aging retiree, who has spent a lot of money in Thailand over the years, with things like property, vehicles, perhaps sponsoring a Thai family, is now being treated poorly by the Thai government. 

 

I expect this demographic of expats to have a tough time over the next 12 months,  Many probably haven't left Thailand for years, and will be forced back onto visa runs. 

 

Anyway, as said, it's not a great advertisement for people considering Thailand as a place to retiree to.

[Mike Teavee]

On 2/16/2019 at 9:06 PM, Thailand Outcast said:

I know I will be going somewhere. Can you tell me some places in the Philippines?  Not a big city.  Not the jungle.  A beach would be nice but I will consider any place. 

If I wanted to live near a beach in PI I would choose Coron (Palawan), Bohol (Visayas, just across from Cebu) or Cebu Island itself somewhere on the coast between CarCar & Oslob or around Moalboal on the other side of the Island.

 

But my favourite place in Philippines is Davao, Beaches aren't great but I like the place though it seems to be rapidly being spoiled by the influx of foreigners so maybe somewhere 1-2 hours outside of Davao City.

  

[Mike Teavee]

On 2/18/2019 at 8:43 PM, Thailand Outcast said:

It is the simple solution and I will do it.  I will live here the most time I can on the tourist visa, until they stop that way.  They must stop that way.  So many people will change to it.  

 

No big money in Thai bank, np paper work, no reporting, easy.  Visit famliy back home for a few weeks and pick up new visas,  Have a hoiday in another place in the area, and come back Thaiand for 9 months.  So funny to do like this.   

No, the "Funny" thing is that if you don't work, you're not eligible for the METV (Multi-Entry Tourist Visa)...

For Multiple Entries (stay up to 60 days for each entry within the period of 6 months)

• A current passport with validity of over 6 months beyond the date of application  and at least 2 blank pages
• Visa application form completely filled out
• Two (2) recent photos of the applicant
• Original bank statement of the applicant showing a balance of at least £5,000 (for 6 months) or a print out with official stamp of the bank
• A letter from the applicant's employer (in the UK and addressed to the Royal Thai Embassy) If you are self-employed, you self-assessment and a company registration document are required.
• A photocopy of the confirmed air ticket to Thailand
• A photocopy of the hotel reservation confirmation in Thailand

 

 

[Mike Teavee]

On 3/21/2019 at 7:08 PM, Martyp said:

If you have the money to meet the new rules but decline to follow on some principle then what are you worried about or complaining about? It is a problem of your own making.

It astounds me how people say they have the funds but don't want to leave 800k in a Thai bank account because it's a bad investment and then go on to moan about the fact that they now have to leave Thailand.

 

Let's say you're making an extra 6% (not easy in a risk free investment) on that 800k, that's  48k per year - is it really such a bad investment to pay 4k pm to live where you want to live?

 

 

[JackThompson]

40 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

It astounds me how people say they have the funds but don't want to leave 800k in a Thai bank account because it's a bad investment and then go on to moan about the fact that they now have to leave Thailand.

 

Let's say you're making an extra 6% (not easy in a risk free investment) on that 800k, that's  48k per year - is it really such a bad investment to pay 4k pm to live where you want to live?

Yes, 4K per-month Extra - for no reason at all but to have "permission" to spend our money in Thailand - is nuts. 

By way of comparison, for many retirees, that is the same as increasing one's condo-rent overhead by 40% to 50%. 

People retired here with financial plans based on the deal offered by the Thai government/immigration when they made the move.  Now the govt has reigned on that agreement - offering no "grandfathering" to those already here.  Many on fixed-incomes (including ROI) cannot add 4K/mo or so in unexpected overhead to their plan (without shortening their lives to "make it work"), so will be forced to relocate.

[jacko45k]

On 3/28/2019 at 6:24 PM, Thailand Outcast said:

It's interesting how a lot of people talk about "rule number 1" or the "golden rule" for Thailand, that being, don't bring any money into Thailand that you are not prepared to lose, yet, many see the 800k as being outside of this rule.

You may have your rule-book upside down.

I bring money into Thailand to spend, and like to be ahead, so keep some in the bank. 

More common rules are don't invest more than you are prepared to lose and don't be worth more dead than alive.

Haven't lost a single satang from the bank yet.. outside of their charges,

[Thailand Outcast]

4 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

If I wanted to live near a beach in PI I would choose Coron (Palawan), Bohol (Visayas, just across from Cebu) or Cebu Island itself somewhere on the coast between CarCar & Oslob or around Moalboal on the other side of the Island.

 

But my favourite place in Philippines is Davao, Beaches aren't great but I like the place though it seems to be rapidly being spoiled by the influx of foreigners so maybe somewhere 1-2 hours outside of Davao City.

  

Thanks for the suggestions.  I have pretty much settled on Vietnam, but I am happy to explore other options.  I have been to The Philippine, but not for some years.  I think I will plan a trip this year to check it out again. 

[Thailand Outcast]

4 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

No, the "Funny" thing is that if you don't work, you're not eligible for the METV (Multi-Entry Tourist Visa)...

For Multiple Entries (stay up to 60 days for each entry within the period of 6 months)

• A current passport with validity of over 6 months beyond the date of application  and at least 2 blank pages
• Visa application form completely filled out
• Two (2) recent photos of the applicant
• Original bank statement of the applicant showing a balance of at least £5,000 (for 6 months) or a print out with official stamp of the bank
• A letter from the applicant's employer (in the UK and addressed to the Royal Thai Embassy) If you are self-employed, you self-assessment and a company registration document are required.
• A photocopy of the confirmed air ticket to Thailand
• A photocopy of the hotel reservation confirmation in Thailand

 

 

Well, it is "funny" that you need a letter from an employer that you are taking 6 months leave from. ????

 

Most people would just resign, or have to resign, unless they work for government.

 

The self employed thing is not a problem for me, but I can see some foreigners have friends write letters stating they are a professional shoe shiner, for example.  ????

[Thailand Outcast]

4 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

It astounds me how people say they have the funds but don't want to leave 800k in a Thai bank account because it's a bad investment and then go on to moan about the fact that they now have to leave Thailand.

 

Let's say you're making an extra 6% (not easy in a risk free investment) on that 800k, that's  48k per year - is it really such a bad investment to pay 4k pm to live where you want to live?

 

 

Firstly, I am not moaning about leaving Thailand.  You will not see me complaining on this thread.  Do not confuse being critical of the new laws with moaning.

 

I do have the funds, but I will not be pushed into capitalizing Thai banks by Thai immigration, so I can say I live in Thailand, rather than say I live 6 months in Thailand and 6 months in Vietnam. 

 

It's a lousy deal, and one I am not going to accept.

 

I have a question for you.  At what figure would you say it becomes a lousy deal for you?  1 million?  1.5 million?  1.8 million?  2 million? 

 

There has to be a figure where you would actually say to yourself, "this is not worth the financial loss and / or risk." 

 

Not to mention, currently, you can't touch 400k of your own money, forever.  Just say the 400k untouched rose to 800k. In no other circumstances would you accept the loss of use of your money, but in Thailand, many "bend over" for Thailand, well, I don't bend over for the Thai government, and they will actually lose money from me, rather than gain money. 

Edited April 3, 2019 by Thailand Outcast

[Mike Teavee]

15 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Yes, 4K per-month Extra - for no reason at all but to have "permission" to spend our money in Thailand - is nuts. 

By way of comparison, for many retirees, that is the same as increasing one's condo-rent overhead by 40% to 50%. 

People retired here with financial plans based on the deal offered by the Thai government/immigration when they made the move.  Now the govt has reigned on that agreement - offering no "grandfathering" to those already here.  Many on fixed-incomes (including ROI) cannot add 4K/mo or so in unexpected overhead to their plan (without shortening their lives to "make it work"), so will be forced to relocate.

I was referring to the guys who say they have no problem in being able to deposit the 800K but choose not to as they can get a better return on their investment elsewhere. 

 

For me, moving to Cambodia because whilst you can afford to soak-up the 4K less income you choose not to is nuts - It's like choosing to stay in a 6K room that might be OK but really you want & can afford the 10K one where you'd be happier, that really is nuts!!!  For any retiree, comfort & happiness should be worth a lot more than extra income that you don't actually need (always nice to have though).

 

I agree with your point about guys who made financial plans, have lived happily for many years following those plans & could continue to do so but are going to struggle because the goal post have been moved - But they're not the guys that can really afford to deposit 800K in the bank (they may have the means to but if it hurts you financially then you can't really afford it) but choose not to do so and choose to go live somewhere else. 

 

 

12 hours ago, Thailand Outcast said:

Firstly, I am not moaning about leaving Thailand.  You will not see me complaining on this thread.  Do not confuse being critical of the new laws with moaning.

 

I do have the funds, but I will not be pushed into capitalizing Thai banks by Thai immigration, so I can say I live in Thailand, rather than say I live 6 months in Thailand and 6 months in Vietnam. 

 

It's a lousy deal, and one I am not going to accept.

 

I have a question for you.  At what figure would you say it becomes a lousy deal for you?  1 million?  1.5 million?  1.8 million?  2 million? 

 

There has to be a figure where you would actually say to yourself, "this is not worth the financial loss and / or risk." 

 

Not to mention, currently, you can't touch 400k of your own money, forever.  Just say the 400k untouched rose to 800k. In no other circumstances would you accept the loss of use of your money, but in Thailand, many "bend over" for Thailand, well, I don't bend over for the Thai government, and they will actually lose money from me, rather than gain money. 

Apologies, "Moaning" was the wrong word, I was struggling to come up with a way of expressing my point & have clearly failed as you've replied about the "numbers" & I'm talking about people who have no problem with the "numbers" but choose to move elsewhere so they can have a slightly higher "number" that they don't really need. 

At the end of the day, my view on life is that money itself has no value - It's what the money affords you that is the value & so leaving 800K untouched in a Thai bank account value to me is that it paves the way to being able to retire in Thailand & if I had to put a price on it, it's worth more than 4K pm to me, but not 40K so somewhere between there - but If they increase the requirement beyond 1 - 1.5 Million then I would weigh up the pros & cons of adding the extra cash Vs going down the Privileged Entry (Thai Elite as was) route Vs moving somewhere else, but if I still wanted to live in Thailand and could afford it, then I would do it.  

 

There obviously is a "number" at which point I wouldn't be able to afford to live in Thailand, but at that point, I wouldn't be on here saying that I could afford that "number" but choose not to I'd be on here saying how unfair it was for them to change it (Which I agree with @JackThompsonit is without grandfathering existing retirees or at least giving them a bit more than a couple of months notice).

 

You can't take it with you guys... 

 

Edit: I love the Philippines but I think you've made the right decision in choosing Vietnam as your "2nd Home" (from what I've read, I wouldn't be surprised if it became your "1st Home" and Thailand became just another place that you visit on holiday) - I hope you start a thread about your experiences as I'd love to hear how you get on, am seriously tempted to do something similar.

Edited April 3, 2019 by Mike Teavee

[JackThompson]

7 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

I was referring to the guys who say they have no problem in being able to deposit the 800K but choose not to as they can get a better return on their investment elsewhere.

I think, in most of those cases, this is a significant portion of their liquid-assets, which they are unwilling to put at risk (even minimal) in a foreign bank and/or they need the higher return to support themselves without draining their principal.

[Date Masamune]

It astounds me how people say they have the funds but don't want to leave 800k in a Thai bank account because it's a bad investment and then go on to moan about the fact that they now have to leave Thailand.
 
Let's say you're making an extra 6% (not easy in a risk free investment) on that 800k, that's  48k per year - is it really such a bad investment to pay 4k pm to live where you want to live?
 
 

It is all rubbish the don’t like/trust
Thai banks brigade can’t stump up the 800.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Thailand Outcast]

23 hours ago, jacko45k said:

You may have your rule-book upside down.

I bring money into Thailand to spend, and like to be ahead, so keep some in the bank. 

More common rules are don't invest more than you are prepared to lose and don't be worth more dead than alive.

Haven't lost a single satang from the bank yet.. outside of their charges,

 

That 800k in a non aggressive managed fund would easily make you 6% to 8%, yet, you settle for 1.5%, so you can get a retirement visa.  Makes for an expensive visas, and you can't touch 400k of your own money, at all.  That's a loss of around 6%, or 48,000 baht.  (around 4000 baht a month) 

[Thailand Outcast]

9 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

I was referring to the guys who say they have no problem in being able to deposit the 800K but choose not to as they can get a better return on their investment elsewhere. 

 

For me, moving to Cambodia because whilst you can afford to soak-up the 4K less income you choose not to is nuts - It's like choosing to stay in a 6K room that might be OK but really you want & can afford the 10K one where you'd be happier, that really is nuts!!!  For any retiree, comfort & happiness should be worth a lot more than extra income that you don't actually need (always nice to have though).

 

I agree with your point about guys who made financial plans, have lived happily for many years following those plans & could continue to do so but are going to struggle because the goal post have been moved - But they're not the guys that can really afford to deposit 800K in the bank (they may have the means to but if it hurts you financially then you can't really afford it) but choose not to do so and choose to go live somewhere else. 

 

 

Apologies, "Moaning" was the wrong word, I was struggling to come up with a way of expressing my point & have clearly failed as you've replied about the "numbers" & I'm talking about people who have no problem with the "numbers" but choose to move elsewhere so they can have a slightly higher "number" that they don't really need. 

At the end of the day, my view on life is that money itself has no value - It's what the money affords you that is the value & so leaving 800K untouched in a Thai bank account value to me is that it paves the way to being able to retire in Thailand & if I had to put a price on it, it's worth more than 4K pm to me, but not 40K so somewhere between there - but If they increase the requirement beyond 1 - 1.5 Million then I would weigh up the pros & cons of adding the extra cash Vs going down the Privileged Entry (Thai Elite as was) route Vs moving somewhere else, but if I still wanted to live in Thailand and could afford it, then I would do it.  

 

There obviously is a "number" at which point I wouldn't be able to afford to live in Thailand, but at that point, I wouldn't be on here saying that I could afford that "number" but choose not to I'd be on here saying how unfair it was for them to change it (Which I agree with @JackThompsonit is without grandfathering existing retirees or at least giving them a bit more than a couple of months notice).

 

You can't take it with you guys... 

 

Edit: I love the Philippines but I think you've made the right decision in choosing Vietnam as your "2nd Home" (from what I've read, I wouldn't be surprised if it became your "1st Home" and Thailand became just another place that you visit on holiday) - I hope you start a thread about your experiences as I'd love to hear how you get on, am seriously tempted to do something similar.

No need to apologize.  There's no harm in discussing this issue.

 

So, you agree there would be a "number" where you would assess whether to deposit and remain, or go Elite, or go to another country?  For me, that number is the 800k.  For you, it's "1 - 1.5 million."  My point is, we all have a "number" in mind where we no longer see the value in Thai retirement visa.  

 

I have a diverse portfolio of cash at bank, property, and shares.  I could have deposited the 800k some years ago, but chose not to then, and I chose not to now. 

 

It's not just the return on investment, or the loss of the approximate 4000k baht a month.  It's the principle.  I will not allow the Thai government to manipulate my finances, no matter what "carrot" they put in front of me, or what punitive measures they take. 

 

Everything had been going along well for me under the 65k a month system.  I'm not prepared to change the balance of my portfolio for a Thai retirement visa.  It's my choice, and I am not complaining I will have to leave Thailand because of that choice.  That said, I will seek prices from agents before making the jump. 

 

Interestingly, if the agent's prices are reasonable, this could all backfire on the Thai government, and the Thai banks, as people pay a one off "fee" to an agent and do not bring in the 800k.   

 

Another thing, when I die, I don't want to leave a problem for my family by having assets in Thailand, including cash at bank.  This is not a major consideration, but did play a factor in my decision some years ago.  

 

I would like to make it clear that I don't hold Thailand in such a high regard as others.  Vietnam, for example, has everything Thailand has, but without all the BS.  It wasn't like I gave serious consideration to moving the 800k.  I have no problems going to Vietnam.

 

If / when I go, Vietnam will be my primary place of residence, but I will "holiday" in Thailand as frequently, and for as long as I can.  I really will not be missing out on much. 

 

I will have a 1 year multi Vietnam visa for around $400USD.  No other hoops to jump through.  Pay your money, get your visa.   

 

In a way, the Thailand visa issue could actually make my life easier. 

Edited April 4, 2019 by Thailand Outcast

[Thailand Outcast]

57 minutes ago, Date Masamune said:

It is all rubbish the don’t like/trust
Thai banks brigade can’t stump up the 800.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't have a dislike for Thai banks. 

 

Whilst Thailand is a 3rd World country, with a history of coups and poor governance, I don't see Thai banks as a big risk.  Yes, more risky than a bank in my home country, but not too risky for 800k. 

 

I will not be depositing the money based on principle, and if I had to focus any "dislike" it would be at the Thai government. 

 

The spin off of the new visa rules is a lot of cheap money for Thai banks, thus, the Thai economy.

 

I will ask you the same question I asked another member.  At what baht figure would you decide it's not worth the risk, or, you are losing too much return, being forced to deposit money into a Thai bank, for a retirement visa?  Would it be 1 million?  1.5 million?  1.8 million?  2 million?  At what figure would you say enough is enough and not play "the game?" 

[Gweiloman]

I don't have a dislike for Thai banks. 
 
Whilst Thailand is a 3rd World country, with a history of coups and poor governance, I don't see Thai banks as a big risk.  Yes, more risky than a bank in my home country, but not too risky for 800k. 
 
I will not be depositing the money based on principle, and if I had to focus any "dislike" it would be at the Thai government. 
 
The spin off of the new visa rules is a lot of cheap money for Thai banks, thus, the Thai economy.
 
I will ask you the same question I asked another member.  At what baht figure would you decide it's not worth the risk, or, you are losing too much return, being forced to deposit money into a Thai bank, for a retirement visa?  Would it be 1 million?  1.5 million?  1.8 million?  2 million?  At what figure would you say enough is enough and not play "the game?" 

You have reiterated numerous times that you will not be held hostage by the govt and that your principles are not for sale. Yet you are willing to work with an agent knowing that you are condoning corruption in the back office.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Thailand Outcast]

1 hour ago, Gweiloman said:

You have reiterated numerous times that you will not be held hostage by the govt and that your principles are not for sale. Yet you are willing to work with an agent knowing that you are condoning corruption in the back office.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

I do not condone corruption, but it is a part of Thai culture, and must be accepted as a part of living in Thailand.  We are faced with it every day here, to varying degrees.

 

The "principles" I allude to are not in relation to corruption. They are in relation to keeping control over your own finances, and not having them manipulated by the Thai government.  

 

I see your point that I would still be manipulated to a degree, because I would now have to pay for an agent, but that works both ways, because then I would not need 800k in the bank, and wouldn't even need to show the 65k a month. 

 

With the use of agents, the system basically becomes a "pay for time" visa system. 

 

This is why I mentioned that it could backfire on the Thai government, and thus, the Thai banks, whilst immigration staff get rich. 

 

If the corrupt agents are allowed to proliferate, and it appears the new rules do cater to their services, then potentially, you could see a lot more undesirables here, as the required financials go out the window. 

 

It may even be the case people with 800k in the bank ditch that method and use an agent, so there's no stress about seasoning and the untouched 400k, and their 800k earns about 4000 baht extra a month than if put in a Thai bank.   

 

As time passes, it will be interesting to see what "services" these agents will be able to offer, and at what price.

[JackThompson]

20 hours ago, Thailand Outcast said:

If the corrupt agents are allowed to proliferate, and it appears the new rules do cater to their services, then potentially, you could see a lot more undesirables here, as the required financials go out the window. 

The financials have been "out the window" for undesirables ever since the first immigration-agent-partner opened their shop.  The only new change is more honest "desirable" types being forced into this system. 

It could be a wash for the banks - those still putting up the money will leave more of it longer, and others will stop putting up the money at all.

[Thailand Outcast]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

The financials have been "out the window" for undesirables ever since the first immigration-agent-partner opened their shop.  The only new change is more honest "desirable" types being forced into this system. 

It could be a wash for the banks - those still putting up the money will leave more of it longer, and others will stop putting up the money at all.

I know the agents have been in operation for years, "loaning" money to foreigners for visas applications, no seasoning needed. 

 

What I meant was, "undesirables" that haven't even been able to afford the agents fees in the past, may be able to in the future, because there may be some competition in the agent market, which lowers prices for the consumer.  

 

I agree with your comment about the banks.  They will either see a windfall out of this, or, it could backfire, with people who have traditionally used the 800k method, now moving to agents, and leaving their 800k elsewhere to work harder for them.  Not to mention, they can actually use it as they please.  ????

 

Thai banks are offering about 1.5% interest, That's about 12,000 baht a year.  Not withstanding you basically can never use 400k of your own money.

 

You could put that 800k in a well managed and balanced, non aggressive fund, returning around 6% to 8%.  Taking the average at 7%, that's 56,000 baht a year.

 

If the agents want, say, 20,000 baht, you would be 24,000 baht a year (2000 a month)  better off using the agents, allowing for the 12,000 baht you could have made with a Thai bank. 

 

Also, you do not have the stress of arranging your financials and paperwork, and dealing with immigration yourself. 

 

 

Edited April 5, 2019 by Thailand Outcast

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, Thailand Outcast said:

What I meant was, "undesirables" that haven't even been able to afford the agents fees in the past, may be able to in the future, because there may be some competition in the agent market, which lowers prices for the consumer.   

The agent offers I have seen quoted after the rule-changes are higher than before - only up a bit in Pattaya but may be more elsewhere.  The local immigration-office sets the base-rate - agents just tack-on a couple thousand baht more. 

 

By "undesirables" I meant those who would not want in-person interactions with Immigration (or any sort of police).  There is no welfare here, so I don't see a problem being caused with those scraping by on 30K/mo - especially given the many empty condos and restaurant-tables available.

[jacko45k]

On 4/4/2019 at 2:10 PM, Thailand Outcast said:

 

That 800k in a non aggressive managed fund would easily make you 6% to 8%, yet, you settle for 1.5%, so you can get a retirement visa.  Makes for an expensive visas, and you can't touch 400k of your own money, at all.  That's a loss of around 6%, or 48,000 baht.  (around 4000 baht a month) 

It is the cost of living here..... by your numbers 44,000 baht per year, In my money just change over £1000 . I have had my fill of managed funds with their sly charges over the years and I will live with that. Being unable to touch the money comes with managed funds too. I am retired, fussing and wringing my hands over money and making more stress in my life by seeking alternatives doesn't fit my laziness. What are the alternatives?  

[lamyai3]

15 hours ago, Thailand Outcast said:

What I meant was, "undesirables" that haven't even been able to afford the agents fees in the past, may be able to in the future, because there may be some competition in the agent market, which lowers prices for the consumer.

The opposite is true. The seasoning ruse used by agents previously required only a single date on which proof of monies in a Thai bank was required, and once the extension was given they'd completed their job. The new rules are much more complicated, and make it all too easy for agents to accept payments on false pretences. Payment upfront to provide a current year extension remains the easy and deliverable part, but the three months post extension proof and residual full year account balance is much more doubtful, with no reports of how this works out even possible until 2020. In the past, all an agent had to do to prove their integrity was to return the passport stamped with the visa extension, but it's no longer so simple. 

[steven100]

16 hours ago, Thailand Outcast said:

well managed and balanced, non aggressive fund, returning around 6% to 8%.  Taking the average at 7%

Please show me the non aggresive balanced fund returning 7% that you are talking about.

I have 300K AUD to put up.

[Gweiloman]

Please show me the non aggresive balanced fund returning 7% that you are talking about.
I have 300K AUD to put up.

Me too lol


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[Thailand Outcast]

8 hours ago, jacko45k said:

 

Quote

What are the alternatives?  

 

 

Vietnam.

 

 

Edited April 6, 2019 by Thailand Outcast

[Thailand Outcast]

7 hours ago, steven100 said:

Please show me the non aggresive balanced fund returning 7% that you are talking about.

I have 300K AUD to put up.

 

I Googled for an Australian Fund comparison and came up with this on the first page.  I didn't even have to look hard to find between 6% and 8%.  I used your figure of $300,000AUD and selected "Multi Sector Growth."  They are returning between 6% and 8%. 

 

https://www.canstar.com.au/compare/managed-funds?profile=Multi-Sector+Growth&amount=300000

 

Can you see how the Thai's are taking the p*ss, forcing you to loan 800k, 400k as a fixed permanent loan, at a lousy 1.5% interest rate?  Makes for an expensive visa. 

 

I like Thailand, but I also know a bad deal when I see one.  That said, I will see what the agents are offering before I leave for Vietnam.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Thailand Outcast]

2 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Me too lol


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Seer post 106. 

 

Lollllllllllllllllllllllllllll.  ????

[Thailand Outcast]

7 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

The opposite is true. The seasoning ruse used by agents previously required only a single date on which proof of monies in a Thai bank was required, and once the extension was given they'd completed their job. The new rules are much more complicated, and make it all too easy for agents to accept payments on false pretences. Payment upfront to provide a current year extension remains the easy and deliverable part, but the three months post extension proof and residual full year account balance is much more doubtful, with no reports of how this works out even possible until 2020. In the past, all an agent had to do to prove their integrity was to return the passport stamped with the visa extension, but it's no longer so simple. 

I know what the agents were doing under the old system.  It appears they are still able to offer their services under the new system. 

 

I am lucky because my current visa doesn't expire for a while, so I am very interested to see what happens over the next few months, particularly with reports of immigration wanting to see a bank book balance at 90 day reports, and as you say, an untouched 400k. 

 

It's sounds to me that these new rules were bought in to push many onto agents, so immigration staff make a lot of money. 

 

The use of agents may be allowed to flourish in an industry, similar to the "visa run" industry, so I would expect to see a little competition in the market. 

 

If their prices remain reasonable, or are lower, due to increased competition, and they can deal with the 90 day report and 400k issue, this method may well be financially beneficial than the 800k method that runs at a loss.

[lamyai3]

14 hours ago, Thailand Outcast said:

I know what the agents were doing under the old system.  It appears they are still able to offer their services under the new system.

The problem is that even the agents can't guarantee that they'll be able to come up with the goods. The loophole in the past was very easy, involving only obtaining an extension for the current year and you were good to go. But since the new (unprecedented) rule was introduced where you can be denied an extension based on whether you complied with the post seasoning rules on the previous year's extension, no one knows how this will pan out, as it can't even be field-tested until next year. For sure, an agent can take your money at the new rate, provide you with a current extension, a wide grin and an assurance of "no problem next year", but they themselves can't guarantee this, or be clear about what kind of evidence immigration will want to see and whether they'll be able to provide it.