Why, after 9 months, Retired in Thailand, I left and am back in the USA?

[CaptainJack]

Hi to all,

 

I'll keep this as short as possible and invite others to add suggestions that are of help to everyone. 

I have monitored these forums for four months,  gleaning information about immigration and the challenges,  changes and difficulties many expats are having. 

 

I am an American,  have lived now in Thailand for 9 months. I have a retirement Visa. I have enough pension income to meet the requirements,  as they are in the police orders for March 1, 2019.

 

I moved to Thailand because I have been coming here for years, only on a few week basis each time as I transited on to India, Nepal,  Vietnam and other destinations.   I liked Thailand.  I like the people.   I moved here and met a Thai woman,  fell in love with her, and after 4 months, we moved into an apartment together.   Life was really good.  I was happy. 

 

Why did I move to Thailand? Thailand was my go to place to retire,  especially if I needed to conserve money and still live very good.  A series of bad financial decisions left me with little savings.   My pension is very good, as I mentioned.  

 

Why am I back in Austin,  Texas after only 9 months officially retired to Thailand?

That is simple to answer, arriving at that decision has been gut wrenching,  especially with my girlfriend and our emotions. 

 

I'll break it down and I'll leave it at that.

 

1. I do not want to spend the rest of my life jumping through endless hoops to be able to live in Thailand.  Too much stress. 

 

2. I don't have enough savings to deposit 800k baht and not not touch it for 5 months and also not touch 400k for the rest of my life.My monthly is not an issue. 

 

3. I don't want to live with the constant changes and consequences if the rules change and I no longer meet Thai requirements. 

 

4. I cannot afford the cost of comprehensive medical insurance.  At age 66, I do not qualify for any reasonable premiums.  My Medicare premiums the USA is a fraction of what medical insurance will cost me in Thailand. 

 

5. I do not like being stopped by immigration police outside my apartment and demanding my passport and documents and fearing arrest and possible deportation. 

 

6. I am tired of the smog.

 

All the good things for me retiring in Thailand were overrun by the bad experiences and the fear of a future where I never felt I was safe or wanted by the Thai government.   The Thai people are amazing.   I love them. My time in Thailand was amazing,  but I cannot live with the uncertain future living in Thailand. 

 

I count myself lucky.  I arrived in Thailand in time to see and experience the changes taking place for expatriates living there. Other then my girlfriend,  I did not develop the deep connection so many have as I have read their stories. 

 

I only want to say this.  Be kind to those in pain and who are struggling,  reaching out on TV.  Anyone can find themselves in similar circumstances.   Empathy is an important skill to know....

 

And for me next? I will look at other countries,  possibly Panama.   Or, I will stay in the USA,  continue to travel (and do volunteer work overseas) but just plan to live the final years of my life either in the USA,  or not so far away.

 

My last observation.  I only made a few mistakes in choosing Thailand to retire to. They were however significant and ones I wish I had not made.  Regret is not a bad thing to have, if you learn from it.  What were my mistakes?

 

I did not find TV until I moved there.  The other forums and YouTube videos do not present a realistic view of expatriate life in Thailand. 

 

I waited to late.  The medical insurance issue is a deal breaker,  anywhere.  Most countries either have or likely soon will require proof of medical insurance.  Advise to anyone making a decision as big as leaving their home country and retirement elsewhere?  Move before at 60. And don't consider it after 65.  It is not going to be pretty. I personally don't know what some of you are going to do that have local medical insurance that kicks you off at 75? If Thailand adopts a medical insurance requirement for retirement extensions, what do you do at age 76?

 

Really, really understand yourself and what your tolerance for bureaucracy is. If you don't like waiting in line at the MVD for your license plate,  don't move to Thailand or any place like it.

 

Don't move and think retirement unless you have double the amount of income and cash required.   You are at the whim of your host government to change rules and requirements. Have enough money to still meet to requirements. 

 

 

I wish all well and good luck.  I hope things work out for those who are struggling. I have a friend who just retired there.  I am worried about him. He may be in trouble because he has limited resources and his money is tied up in property in Thailand.  I hope he will be okay.

 

I will only add this. Everyone should have an exit plan.  Not having one, especially now days can be a grave mistake. 

 

And a shot out to my Vietnam Veteran Brothers! Love ya!

[brokenbone]

i think you made the right choice,

i wouldnt have come here if i had known the endless visa hassle, and my body is so broken i cant get out.

if i were you, i would only ever contemplate places with easy to get permanent residency, and preferably an option to join a subsidized national health care

[BuckBee]

[CaptainJack]

3 minutes ago, brokenbone said:

i think you made the right choice,

i wouldnt have come here if i had known the endless visa hassle, and my body is so broken i cant get out.

if i were you, i would only ever contemplate places with easy to get permanent residency, and preferably an option to join a subsidized national health care

Thanks broken one. I hope there are many other positive,  constructive replies.  Good luck.

[madmen]

You blew your cash in 9 months? you didn't say why your GF left but Im guessing back to you running out of cash.

I think 9 months could be a record for a failed attempt at trying to make it here.

 

I would suggest you dont leave the USA where you will be taken care of

[Damrongsak]

I hear you.  Always thought I'd move to Thailand for retirement.  Married 40 years to a Thai gal.  We own a fairly recent small house in Loei, have nice family there and longtime friends.  Money is not an issue.  But things like the health insurance and the BS stuff with Immigration check-in and reporting just galls me. 

 

The only good thing is that I have a lifetime Thai motorcycle license. Probably cost me 100 Baht extra back then. oh, and we do get some nice fruit from the trees we planted.

 

[CaptainJack]

2 minutes ago, madmen said:

You blew your cash in 9 months? you didn't say why your GF left but Im guessing back to you running out of cash.

I think 9 months could be a record for a failed attempt at trying to make it here.

 

I would suggest you dont leave the USA where you will be taken care of

Well, this is exactly what I expected.  A crude reply with assumptions that have no basis in my real experience.   Enjoy your life.  I'm going to have mine, do what is best for me and be happy I took the time to write something positive.  Bye bye.

[CaptainJack]

3 minutes ago, Damrongsak said:

I hear you.  Always thought I'd move to Thailand for retirement.  Married 40 years to a Thai gal.  We own a fairly recent small house in Loei, have nice family there and longtime friends.  Money is not an issue.  But things like the health insurance and the BS stuff with Immigration check-in and reporting just galls me. 

 

The only good thing is that I have a lifetime Thai motorcycle license. Probably cost me 100 Baht extra back then. 

Thanks for the reply.  Good luck with all the future changes and I wish you well. Happy for you.

[Puchaiyank]

Retires in Thailand do not know their future...immigration and healthcare prospects could get better once the visa monetary requirements start filling Thai government coffers.  Uncertainty is the monster lurking in the background.

[CaptainJack]

Just now, Puchaiyank said:

Retires in Thailand do not know their future...immigration and healthcare prospects could get better once the visa monetary requirements start filling Thai government coffers.  Uncertainty is the monster lurking in the background.

Indeed. I hope that something can be done about the health insurance issue, regardless of Thai immigration laws.   The costs of comparable insurance as I have totally destroyed my financial planning.

 

I'm really healthy,  but have a couple of preexisting conditions that if not covered by insurance if I needed medical care, even in Thailand would bankrupt me. That is just too big a risk for me to take.

 

Thanks for taking the time to reply. 

 

Good luck...

[Airalee]

Good luck back in Austin.  I visited for a week once and found it to be a beautiful city with some of the most friendly people one could ever hope to meet.  True southern hospitality.  It’s a place I would consider living myself if i was at a different point in life and already owned a home there.

[CaptainJack]

Just now, Airalee said:

Good luck back in Austin.  I visited for a week once and found it to be a beautiful city with some of the most friendly people one could ever hope to meet.  True southern hospitality.  It’s a place I would consider living myself if i was at a different point in life and already owned a home there.

Thanks! Austin is a very good city to live  although a bit hot in the summer and getting really expensive.   This won't be my permanent home.  My best friend and his wife live here and I am visiting and staying with them as I sort out my plans for where next.  Good luck and best to you.

[seasia]

Hi Captain Jack.

 

A nice and sensible post.

 

I wish you Good Luck.

After about 10 years of living here and a prior 10 years of visiting I am considering spending less time here, not perhaps abandoning Thailand though.Have become a bit jaded, already booked flights to UK/Italy for  5 months away from Thailand. Visa currently OK through to next year.

 

I know already that there are certain positive points to Thailand I will miss.

It is a convenient place to live/stay, the ordinary Thais seem fine to me.

 

I have mixed thoughts.

 

All the Best to you.

[CaptainJack]

9 minutes ago, seasia said:

Hi Captain Jack.

 

A nice and sensible post.

 

I wish you Good Luck.

After about 10 years of living here and a prior 10 years of visiting I am considering spending less time here, not perhaps abandoning Thailand though.Have become a bit jaded, already booked flights to UK/Italy for  5 months away from Thailand. Visa currently OK through to next year.

 

I know already that there are certain positive points to Thailand I will miss.

It is a convenient place to live/stay, the ordinary Thais seem fine to me.

 

I have mixed thoughts.

 

All the Best to you.

Thanks!  I understand the mixed thoughts   even though here for a short time.  I was pretty heavily emotionally invested in making Thailand my home.  And the ordinary Thai people.   They are  in general, a really nice people.  I never once was made to feel unwelcome by a local.

 

All the best to you and good luck with your own decision.  If it was hard for me, I can only imagine what it must be like for you and others that have been here many years.  Take care...

[lamyai3]

48 minutes ago, CaptainJack said:

1. I do not want to spend the rest of my life jumping through endless hoops to be able to live in Thailand.  Too much stress. 

 

2. I don't have enough savings to deposit 800k baht and not not touch it for 5 months and also not touch 400k for the rest of my life.My monthly is not an issue. 

 

3. I don't want to live with the constant changes and consequences if the rules change and I no longer meet Thai requirements. 

 

4. I cannot afford the cost of comprehensive medical insurance.  At age 66, I do not qualify for any reasonable premiums.  My Medicare premiums the USA is a fraction of what medical insurance will cost me in Thailand. 

 

5. I do not like being stopped by immigration police outside my apartment and demanding my passport and documents and fearing arrest and possible deportation. 

 

6. I am tired of the smog.

Unfortunately you've presided over the most tumultuous shake up of retirement visas in the past two decades, so what you're seeing recently definitely hasn't been business as usual in the past. The system is likely to become clearer in the coming months, including for acceptable proofs of income (in which aspect you'd currently qualify, so the 800k route is unnecessary). 

 

Medical insurance is currently not a requirement - like you say if this changes many older people will be forced to leave.

 

Regarding police stopping you outside your apartment, this is likely just due to the locale. I've heard Thonglor area can be very bad for this kind of thing, but it doesn't really happen in other parts of Bangkok.

 

Smog also is way lower now than it was two weeks ago, so whilst it's a serious problem it's not usually up in the extreme levels for too long.

 

 

[CaptainJack]

1 minute ago, lamyai3 said:

Unfortunately you've presided over the most tumultuous shake up of retirement visas in the past two decades, so what you're seeing recently definitely hasn't been business as usual in the past. The system is likely to become clearer in the coming months, including for acceptable proofs of income (in which aspect you'd currently qualify, so the 800k route is unnecessary). 

 

Medical insurance is currently not a requirement - like you say if this changes many older people will be forced to leave.

 

Regarding police stopping you outside your apartment, this is likely just due to the locale. I've heard Thonglor area can be very bad for this kind of thing, but it doesn't really happen in other parts of Bangkok.

 

Smog also is way lower now than it was two weeks ago, so whilst it's a serious problem it's not usually up in the extreme levels for too long.

 

 

Thanks. Yes, I am hoping for everyone's sake, the Thai immigration officials do move to a more consistent and also reasonable approach to retirement in Thailand.   Time will tell.  For me, the deal breaker was my medical insurance costs, and coming to the harsh reality that I really would be in trouble without it.

 

I priced a number of simple procedures at various hospitals in Bangkok,  and while a fraction of cost back in the USA without Medicare,  it would still wipe out what I have saved.  

 

I contacted over a dozen, both local and international insurance agencies,  and at 66 years old, most will not even write a policy.  The ones that would.  Well, while I have two decent paying government pensions,  the hit was unacceptable.  

 

Thanks for the reply. All the best.

[ThaiPauly]

Thonglo has a police station known for it's sharp practice so no real surprise there, I used to live on 59 and have known many people who have endured suffering because of this.

 

I think you have made the correct decision, I have been here 17 years now and have seen Thailand change so much, and not at all for the better, the new immigration rules do not bother me, in fact I will benefit from them because I will switch from a retirement visa to a marriage one.

 

Health Insurance could be a big stumbling block for me, the last quote I got was about $8,000 per annum with many pre-existing conditions excluded, I am around your age. That would probably be a deal breaker for me, luckily I still have property in the UK that I could fall back on should things get that bad but for now I have invested to much to just walk away and my wife of 15 years has a son and an elderly father to worry about right now, plus I have a son and grandson who live in BKK, I don't want to leave , but we will just have to see what the future brings.

 

I have heard good things about Panama and Costa Rica especially, if I was American I would probably have gone there had my circumstances been different.

 

I wish you all the luck in the world and am sorry that Thailand has been unkind to you

[garyk]

I retired in Austin, love it there. I moved to San Antonio because of cost of living being so much cheaper, good for me in retirement.

You sound a lot like me, been coming here for years. I never bought into the hype here so no problem loosing money here. Other than an old pickup and a old motorcycle, which i gave away a couple of months ago. And of course long time GF.

 

I agree 100% with you. I am heading back home next week. 

Just got my one year stay with the embassy letter, and good for one more year, but the way I look at it is. If I stay I am beating a dead horse, best to make a clean break IMO.

 

Have the money to put in the bank, but with the horrible immigration laws for retirees?  Not a chance in Hell I am going to stay here... haha.

 

Heading down to southern Mexico then on south after a couple of months doing maintenance on my home..

 

Mexico is god smack beautiful, beats the hell out of Thailand IMO.

 

Best of luck brother!

[swissie]

This is why immigraton wants more money in the Bank as of March 1st. Not that 400K Bht will cure a major ailement.
When I took a survey among my Expat friends, I had to realise that 90% had no health insurance. Hoping for the best. Or jumping off a high rise building when the time comes.
Most of my Expat-Friends were not "risk-takers" in their younger years. But now in their autumn of their lives they are willing to take the gamble of their lives. Just so they can stay in a contry where some Female claims "I love you maak maak".
Glad to hear, that the OP was able to pull the ripcord in time. Six months from now, the GF won't even remember the OP last name. Neighter will OP remember the last name of the GF, as the last name of GF is likely to consist of 27 Syllables.
Congratulations. Damage contained.

[ezzra]

1 hour ago, CaptainJack said:

I have monitored these forums for four months,  gleaning information about immigration and the challenges,  changes and difficulties many expats are having. 

So if you knew what's the deal is retiring in Thailand, why did you still decided to move here fully knowing the requirements of retirement in this country?... 

[Gecko123]

While some roll their eyes at those who complain about immigration hassles, the truth is that the regulations regarding overstay, bank deposits, 90 day reporting and housemaster reporting are anything but "senior friendly." The consequences for making an innocent mistake or being forgetful can be severe.

 

People become more vulnerable as they get older, and language barriers, cultural differences, and a less established social network compound the risks of living in a foreign country, especially if you move there at an already advanced age. While I currently enjoy very good health, I, too, have been reflecting lately on what life would be like here were my health to decline, and I have to admit the more I have thought about this, the more concerned I have become. The OP should be congratulated for making an objective evaluation of his circumstances and doing what he believes is in his best interests.

[AlexRich]

I think you have made the right decision, and kudos to you for having the courage to explain that decision very eloquently. As much as I love Thailand I would never want to grow old there, so for me it is a place to spend time in but not retire to. As people are discovering, the rules can change anytime. Your best point was that everyone should have an exit plan. I totally agree. 

 

Best of luck.

[Nyezhov]

I'm going back to America too. Like I planned.

 

Never cut ties. Be back in Nov.

[mania]

12 minutes ago, ezzra said:

So if you knew what's the deal is retiring in Thailand, why did you still decided to move here fully knowing the requirements of retirement in this country?... 

If you care to read his whole post you will see he found this forum AFTER he moved to Thailand

Quote

I did not find TV until I moved there.  The other forums and YouTube videos do not present a realistic view of expatriate life in Thailand

 

Good Luck Captain Jack

You came you saw & you were honest with yourself.

Many folks are not that sharp & will hang by a thread till it is too late to act

[CaptainJack]

23 minutes ago, ThaiPauly said:

Thonglo has a police station known for it's sharp practice so no real surprise there, I used to live on 59 and have known many people who have endured suffering because of this.

 

I think you have made the correct decision, I have been here 17 years now and have seen Thailand change so much, and not at all for the better, the new immigration rules do not bother me, in fact I will benefit from them because I will switch from a retirement visa to a marriage one.

 

Health Insurance could be a big stumbling block for me, the last quote I got was about $8,000 per annum with many pre-existing conditions excluded, I am around your age. That would probably be a deal breaker for me, luckily I still have property in the UK that I could fall back on should things get that bad but for now I have invested to much to just walk away and my wife of 15 years has a son and an elderly father to worry about right now, plus I have a son and grandson who live in BKK, I don't want to leave , but we will just have to see what the future brings.

 

I have heard good things about Panama and Costa Rica especially, if I was American I would probably have gone there had my circumstances been different.

 

I wish you all the luck in the world and am sorry that Thailand has been unkind to you

Thanks!  Good luck.

[CaptainJack]

17 minutes ago, garyk said:

I retired in Austin, love it there. I moved to San Antonio because of cost of living being so much cheaper, good for me in retirement.

You sound a lot like me, been coming here for years. I never bought into the hype here so no problem loosing money here. Other than an old pickup and a old motorcycle, which i gave away a couple of months ago. And of course long time GF.

 

I agree 100% with you. I am heading back home next week. 

Just got my one year stay with the embassy letter, and good for one more year, but the way I look at it is. If I stay I am beating a dead horse, best to make a clean break IMO.

 

Have the money to put in the bank, but with the horrible immigration laws for retirees?  Not a chance in Hell I am going to stay here... haha.

 

Heading down to southern Mexico then on south after a couple of months doing maintenance on my home..

 

Mexico is god smack beautiful, beats the hell out of Thailand IMO.

 

Best of luck brother!

I will look at Mexico too.  I'll keep my account with TV.  PM me when you get to Mexico.  Best of luck.

[CaptainJack]

17 minutes ago, swissie said:

This is why immigraton wants more money in the Bank as of March 1st. Not that 400K Bht will cure a major ailement.
When I took a survey among my Expat friends, I had to realise that 90% had no health insurance. Hoping for the best. Or jumping off a high rise building when the time comes.
Most of my Expat-Friends were not "risk-takers" in their younger years. But now in their autumn of their lives they are willing to take the gamble of their lives. Just so they can stay in a contry where some Female claims "I love you maak maak".
Glad to hear, that the OP was able to pull the ripcord in time. Six months from now, the GF won't even remember the OP last name. Neighter will OP remember the last name of the GF, as the last name of GF is likely to consist of 27 Syllables.
Congratulations. Damage contained.

Thanks!  Before I retired, I have a lot of time in military aviation, I was also a "Safety and Risk Management Officer".  My decision came down to "risk management".  Thanks for the comment.  Best to you.

[jacko45k]

You are fortunate in that you have a decent place to return to by all accounts. Where I grew up in the UK has descended to near ghetto status. I would need to research alternatives likely beyond my means.... but I see that same ogre on the horizon.

[Damrongsak]

I never had run-ins with Police except for two occasions.  Both had to do with carrying about a 10 inch long pointy machete.  One was in my suitcase on a night bus.  The other was in the market in Loei in broad daylight.  Rather amusing after I talked my way through it (in Thai).  I like them, you people sell them, I buy them.  What's the problem?

 

Up-country in Loei, I do have the advantage of family and a few friends in town if I need support.  I would love to get back to Loei while the current governor is still there.  He apparently was a monk kid at the temple, and was befriended by "Pra Tom", a monk from New Zealand who spent years there. I visited Tom a few times and swapped stories.  It's who you know over there.  You have to make friends.  Be important or at least be interesting or amusing.

[CaptainJack]

19 minutes ago, ezzra said:

So if you knew what's the deal is retiring in Thailand, why did you still decided to move here fully knowing the requirements of retirement in this country?... 

Hi ezzra,

 

Well your comment deserves an answer.  I was stupid, because I did not do the level of research I needed before taking the plunge. Duh! As I mentioned in a previous reply, in my military past, I was also a Safety and Risk Management Officer.  I really have kicked myself in the rear over this lack of planning and research.  Well, lessons learned.  While there are always new mistakes to be made, my plan is not to repeat these mistakes.  Thanks for the comment.  I think it was useful.  Best to you.