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Death of Canadian sickened in Thailand inspires daughter's vaccine crusade


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4 minutes ago, Christophers200 said:

This man was very unfortunate - JE is not widespread and is only found in rural pig raising areas. The average tourist does not need the vaccine.

 

 

The reason that tourists are not recommended the vaccine is that it is rare however it is found in many tourist areas of Thailand, such as Krabi which actually  has one of the highest numbers of cases in Thailand. 

 

The reason that all Japanese children are vaccinated is that it is not restricted to rural areas or around pigs.  Pigs are a major host and transmitter to humans and most cases are near them, but it does not require pigs like you may hear some people claim, it only requires a vertebrate host.  Wading birds are actually the most prolific carriers of JE and so it gets transported all over.

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6 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

 

The reason that tourists are not recommended the vaccine is that it is rare however it is found in many tourist areas of Thailand, such as Krabi which actually  has one of the highest numbers of cases in Thailand. 

 

The reason that all Japanese children are vaccinated is that it is not restricted to rural areas or around pigs.  Pigs are a major host and transmitter to humans and most cases are near them, but it does not require pigs like you may hear some people claim, it only requires a vertebrate host.  Wading birds are actually the most prolific carriers of JE and so it gets transported all over.

Strange I live in Krabi where there has been no outbreaks of JE  -- Where do you get this information from? 

Produce the evidence or stop scaremongering. 

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5 minutes ago, Catoni said:

Had the three dose pre-exposure Rabies vaccine shots. Didn’t notice any side effects at all. 

    Not even the bit of a sore arm muscle for a couple of days like you get from the tetanus vaccine shot or from Shingrix shingles vaccine shots.

     As a matter of fact, your post is the first I’ve ever heard of side effects from Rabies pre-exposure vaccine shots.

       (You still need two further shots of Rabies vaccine if bitten. But you don’t need the Rabies Immune Globulin, it can be sometimes hard to find and extremely expensive, and you don’t need three or four Rabies shots.)

 

Count your blessings. Actually the majority of people have no problem, however it is said, a higher per cent than other vaccines, experience side effects. By this it means more than a sore arm and 24 to 48 hour fever. Only then I read some of the warnings they have online about possible reactions ... oops and some people have gotten panicky and thought they are developing Rabies, because of the injections.  :biggrin: heh

A minor example. on my motorcycle waiting at the Si Yak by airport plaza, when suddenly I have a hot flash, dizzy, cold sweat, and was scared I was going to pass out. I was able to get off the bike roll it to the side of road and sit there for 5 minutes tell I could drive on. That was 5 days after an injection. Just comes on out of the blue. The nurse at Bk did say they had a person who came in because he could not "hold down food" heh, that must have been fun. 
 

As I worked OS in my younger days, I have had well over 60 injections, including the previous Rabies series with no problems.  Why this one did is a mystery, but it was ugly.

 

FYI - I got the series because a person I know was bitten by a dog and had to have the whole shebang ... that not in Isaan, not in Chiang Mai, but here in the north. I get the idea they might be "under-reporting" cases a bit. Image and all

 

 

 

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33 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

Its called Mosquirix and is made by GlaxoSmithKline.

Correct - although I suppose it is fair to point out that it is not freely available worldwide yet and as far as I can tell is only being used in a Malaria Vaccination Implementation Programme (MVIP) in three countries in Africa at the moment.

 

First MVIP underway in Kenya

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24 minutes ago, Christophers200 said:

Strange I live in Krabi where there has been no outbreaks of JE  -- Where do you get this information from? 

Produce the evidence or stop scaremongering. 

 

No, it doesn't work like that, you don't get to make things up about who is at risk and where and when confronted by facts to the contrary, call scaremonger.  Are the Japanese, South Korean and Taiwanese health authorities scaremongers for giving all children the vaccine?  One might ask where you are getting your 1970's take on the issue from?

 

There are 36 provinces in Thailand which have regular JE incidents.  The spread of the disease has changed, it used to stay mostly still and was concentrated in small pig farming areas in the north, but then Thailand switched to industrial pig farming and started buying piglets and transporting them around the country, and now the disease can be found anywhere.  Plenty on the net available to read about it, its something we have known about since the 80's.
 

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1 hour ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Sorry, what?  You want us to consider your "common sense" derived, which are actually just made up, percentages, but expect to be provided with sources when confronted by actual stats, hilarious!  There is plenty of research on this available in the public domain, instead of imagining figures and then trying to assert them as being "common sense", try reading.

 

 

 

    Get serious.... In a country like Thailand or Cambodia or Myanmar you really expect to more than scratch the surface in getting rid of literally billions of mosquito breeding places ??  That’s where I get my 3% - 5% .....And that’s being generous. 

     Unless you establish a total dictatorship and force everyone to work in mosquito breeding places eradication squads. With threatened execution if failure to comply. 

    In that case, you maybe might take care of 35% to 45% of the breeding places. 

       Are you a comedian???   555555 ???? 

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2 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

No, it doesn't work like that, you don't get to make things up about who is at risk and where and when confronted by facts to the contrary, call scaremonger.  Are the Japanese, South Korean and Taiwanese health authorities scaremongers for giving all children the vaccine?  One might ask where you are getting your 1970's take on the issue from?

 

There are 36 provinces in Thailand which have regular JE incidents.  The spread of the disease has changed, it used to stay mostly still and was concentrated in small pig farming areas in the north, but then Thailand switched to industrial pig farming and started buying piglets and transporting them around the country, and now the disease can be found anywhere.  Plenty on the net available to read about it, its something we have known about since the 80's.
 

You have failed to produce ANY evidence for what you claim. STOP SCAREMONGERING 

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5 minutes ago, Catoni said:

    Get serious.... In a country like Thailand or Cambodia or Myanmar you really expect to more than scratch the surface in getting rid of literally billions of mosquito breeding places ??  That’s where I get my 3% - 5% .....And that’s being generous. 

     Unless you establish a total dictatorship and force everyone to work in mosquito breeding places eradication squads. With threatened execution if failure to comply. 

    In that case, you maybe might take care of 35% to 45% of the breeding places. 

       Are you a comedian???   555555 ???? 

 

You are not being in the slightest bit generous to Thailand, they manage far greater results in Africa, why such low expectations of Thai people?  It did not take a dictatorship or forcing anyone to do anything in Africa, just informing people of the habits of mosquitoes.

 

No, nothing funny about taking actual case studies into consideration over one TV posters "common sense" guess.

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6 minutes ago, Catoni said:

    Get serious.... In a country like Thailand or Cambodia or Myanmar you really expect to more than scratch the surface in getting rid of literally billions of mosquito breeding places ??  That’s where I get my 3% - 5% .....And that’s being generous. 

     Unless you establish a total dictatorship and force everyone to work in mosquito breeding places eradication squads. With threatened execution if failure to comply. 

    In that case, you maybe might take care of 35% to 45% of the breeding places. 

       Are you a comedian???   555555 ???? 

NO country has eradicated the mosquito nor even achieved a long term reduction of the mosquito population

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9 minutes ago, Christophers200 said:

NO country has eradicated the mosquito nor even achieved a long term reduction of the mosquito population

Not correct, there are some countries which have eradicated malaria.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/11/paraguay-declared-free-of-malaria-by-who

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5 minutes ago, Christophers200 said:

Mmmm -- It would appear you are determined to troll this thread and have refused repeatedly to evidence your claims. My hand is now hovering over the report button now you are resorting to abuse.

 

I am sure, but what you could be doing is looking it up and then apologizing for calling me a scaremonger, but hey ho, if reporting people is what you need to do to feel better then so be it.

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1 hour ago, LomSak27 said:

 

Count your blessings. Actually the majority of people have no problem, however it is said, a higher per cent than other vaccines, experience side effects. By this it means more than a sore arm and 24 to 48 hour fever. Only then I read some of the warnings they have online about possible reactions ... oops and some people have gotten panicky and thought they are developing Rabies, because of the injections.  :biggrin: heh

A minor example. on my motorcycle waiting at the Si Yak by airport plaza, when suddenly I have a hot flash, dizzy, cold sweat, and was scared I was going to pass out. I was able to get off the bike roll it to the side of road and sit there for 5 minutes tell I could drive on. That was 5 days after an injection. Just comes on out of the blue. The nurse at Bk did say they had a person who came in because he could not "hold down food" heh, that must have been fun. 
 

As I worked OS in my younger days, I have had well over 60 injections, including the previous Rabies series with no problems.  Why this one did is a mystery, but it was ugly.

 

FYI - I got the series because a person I know was bitten by a dog and had to have the whole shebang ... that not in Isaan, not in Chiang Mai, but here in the north. I get the idea they might be "under-reporting" cases a bit. Image and all

 

 

 

Careful of dizzy spells and thinking you might pass out etc.  I had three over the period of a week and finally decided to get checked out. After treadmill stress test. ECG’s Nuclear tracer scan, CT (CAT) scan, and heart catheterization with dye x-ray etc.....turns out I have cardiac arteries almost totally blocked. I’m going in for bypass surgery on March 4. 

    Wish me luck. They say that usually the first sign of this problem is the person falls dead or has a heart attack with massive damage. 

    I was lucky to only have dizzy spells and decide to get them checked out by the professionals. My heart itself has had no damage yet. 

    So now I’m taking tiny blood pressure lowering pills, a cholesterol lowering pill, and an 81 mg aspirin each day. I’m sure the surgery will prove interesting. 

    Careful with your heart and cardiac arteries folks. I’m told that most people have no idea what’s been building up inside them quietly over the years and decades...until it’s too late. 

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1 hour ago, LomSak27 said:

 

Count your blessings. Actually the majority of people have no problem, however it is said, a higher per cent than other vaccines, experience side effects. By this it means more than a sore arm and 24 to 48 hour fever. Only then I read some of the warnings they have online about possible reactions ... oops and some people have gotten panicky and thought they are developing Rabies, because of the injections.  :biggrin: heh

A minor example. on my motorcycle waiting at the Si Yak by airport plaza, when suddenly I have a hot flash, dizzy, cold sweat, and was scared I was going to pass out. I was able to get off the bike roll it to the side of road and sit there for 5 minutes tell I could drive on. That was 5 days after an injection. Just comes on out of the blue. The nurse at Bk did say they had a person who came in because he could not "hold down food" heh, that must have been fun. 
 

As I worked OS in my younger days, I have had well over 60 injections, including the previous Rabies series with no problems.  Why this one did is a mystery, but it was ugly.

 

FYI - I got the series because a person I know was bitten by a dog and had to have the whole shebang ... that not in Isaan, not in Chiang Mai, but here in the north. I get the idea they might be "under-reporting" cases a bit. Image and all

 

 

 

Your funny spell was very unlikely to have been vaccine related - I guess it never occurred to you that it was more likely to be something else.

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2 hours ago, Catoni said:

 

 IXIARO, JE-VAX, IMOJEV and one or two other JE vaccines

   The IXIARO requires two shots 28 days apart. 

   JE-VAX requires three shots. On day 0, 7, and 30.  

  Both are very effective.   I don’t know much about IMOJEV. 

   I think there is a one shot JE vaccine produced in China, and possibly France. 

   Not sure. Maybe someone here can fill us in. 

The one I got was IMOJEV, and that seems to be the version now advertised at all the clinics in Thailand.  It’s just a single shot.  This link says that protection in adults drops from 99% to 84% after 5 years, so maybe a booster shot is needed:

 

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/sanofi-pasteur-launches-imojev-first-single-dose-vaccine-against-japanese-encephalitis-in-australia-182744251.html

 

I used CM MediClinic, where it cost me about $20 (and the British receptionist and English speaking doctor were fantastic).  While Googling I found another place in Bangkok that charges $16.

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2 hours ago, Christophers200 said:

Your funny spell was very unlikely to have been vaccine related - I guess it never occurred to you that it was more likely to be something else.

 

Buddy

I did not mention the 15 or more semi episodes, to not bore you. These included but were not limited to, dizziness, hot flashes, numbness of limbs, actually whole sides of your body, indigestion, nausea, basically the run up to tossing your cookies. And of course surge fever; as in your roll up to 102 in 30 minutes. As this has never happened to me like this before in my life. Maybe you experience these as a result of age, :thumbsup:  not there yet.      And the Doctor at BK concurred they were from the vaccine. Case closed. But as you are playing amateur Doctor you might consider these guidelines

 

Common side effects of Imovax Rabies Vaccine include:

injection site reactions (pain, swelling, itching, or redness),

headache,

dizziness,

muscle pain,

nausea, or

stomach pain.

 

Tell your doctor if you have a serious side effect of Imovax Rabies Vaccine including:

a fever above 104 degrees,

weakness or prickly feeling in your fingers or toes,

problems with balance or eye movement, or

trouble speaking or swallowing.

 

Remember if you have a fever of 102 – relax, calm done. If you have numbness of left arm, shoulder down your left leg, for hours, relax, it is not in the fingers or toes, so no need to get excited. If you toss your cookies, well, did you stop tossing, ok your fine. Note, these can happen days even a week after inoculations.

 

The real problem, you are STRENOUSLY advised to finish the serious of inoculations once you have started. Once you are in it, no going back. :biggrin: 

 

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5 hours ago, Christophers200 said:

This man was very unfortunate - JE is not widespread and is only found in rural pig raising areas. The average tourist does not need the vaccine.

My Thai doctor has a completely different view to what you have expressed and believes that non Thais here should have the vaccine as they are more at risk than from such diseases as Hep A and B.

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41 minutes ago, Christophers200 said:

How much were you charged for the Vaccine?  1) Please provide a link to a reputed travel vaccine site that recommends ALL none-Thai visitors, to be vaccinated against JE. 2) Please provide the numbers of visitors struck down by JE -- I can only remember one lady who was reported to have been affected whilst spending time in a very rural pig- raising area.

CDC:

"You may need this vaccine if your trip will last more than a month, depending on where you are going in Thailand and what time of year you are traveling. You should also consider this vaccine if you plan to visit rural areas in Thailand or will be spending a lot of time outdoors, even for trips shorter than a month."  https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/destinations/traveler/none/thailand

 

"Endemic countrywide; seasonal epidemics in the northern provinces....Highest rates of human disease reported from the Chiang Mai Valley; several cases reported recently in travelers who visited resort or coastal areas of southern Thailand."

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/yellowbook/2018/infectious-diseases-related-to-travel/japanese-encephalitis#5200

 

JE is part of the standard Thai vaccine schedule, all Thais are vaccinated against it as children so cases in Thais are much fewer than in the past, last estimate I have seen is about 300 cases a year reported. 

 

The mortality rate is 20-30% and survivors can suffer permanent brain damage. An important vaccine to get.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20674433

 

 

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7 hours ago, Christophers200 said:

This man was very unfortunate - JE is not widespread and is only found in rural pig raising areas. The average tourist does not need the vaccine.

I asked my GP, in the UK, what shots I needed to travel to Thailand. He mentioned JE but informed me that if I wasn't going to spend a lot of time in rural areas, I didn't need it.

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7 hours ago, Lemonltr said:

I once read an article from mosquito experts saying that protective lotions should have a minimum content of 30% deet. I found a one with 25% deet and it was the cheapest. Blue bottle printed with a large number 15. I assume company name. 

However lately it has disappeared from all supermarket shelves ( chemists and 7/11 don't sell it) Now left with creams with 7% deet. 

I have Marmite with my breakfast every day. never get bitten.

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11 hours ago, Canuckabroad said:

The one I got was IMOJEV, and that seems to be the version now advertised at all the clinics in Thailand.  It’s just a single shot.  This link says that protection in adults drops from 99% to 84% after 5 years, so maybe a booster shot is needed:

 

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/sanofi-pasteur-launches-imojev-first-single-dose-vaccine-against-japanese-encephalitis-in-australia-182744251.html

 

I used CM MediClinic, where it cost me about $20 (and the British receptionist and English speaking doctor were fantastic).  While Googling I found another place in Bangkok that charges $16.

In the list of vaccines against diseases, 84% protection five years after the shot is still very, very good. If you contracted the disease at that point anyways, that level of protection would probably mean you would have a much milder case of JE which would result in your chances of dying being almost zero. 

     Kind of like the Flu vaccine shot. Better chance of not getting the Flu. But if you get the Flu anyways, it still gives you some protection and your case of Flu won’t be near as bad. 

     I would get a vaccine shot even if it gave me only 50% protection. It’s better than nothing, and would lessen the severity of the disease in the event I caught the disease anyways. 

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20 hours ago, mikebell said:

What about eradicating mosquito breeding grounds in Thailand?  Thai drainage systems comprise a series of pools of stagnant water which drain into the next down the line as the water level rises.  Perfect for the female to lay her 400 eggs.

This is what you're up against :

 

image.png.a99038b9157204020636dba56bee06fe.png

 

That's a regular plastic bottle top with plenty of larvae living in it, these hold just a few ml of water and that's plenty for them.

 

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2 hours ago, Catoni said:

Please read more carefully. He didn’t mention eradicating Malaria. 

    He was talking about eradicating mosquitos. 

Yep, but the primary issue is malaria, currently killing more than a million worldwide p.a.

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On another note, just because you were vacinated as a child against measels, does not mean you cant get it or get it again.

Measels outbreaks in adults is increasing in Phuket, Phang Nha and Krabi.

Japan, Indonesia, Korea and Australia have a resurgrnce of Measels.

This is fact, as I contracted measels three weeks ago.

The itching in adults is severe and lasts almost 30 days.

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