A visa for an apprentice

[SKipling]

Hullo Community!

Greetings!

 

I am here with a question.

I have received nod from a hotel on the island of Phuket to apprentice for them for a month. The email which has all the makings of an invitation letter is all I have got. They write I should be able to obtain the right visa from the consulate in my country, which is Indonesia. 

Before I embark on this practicality, I wish to know what is the name of the visa I should be angling for. 

 

My thanks in advance to all helpful replies. 

 

Sincerely

 

S Kipling

 

 

[Christophers200]

You will need paperwork from your employer and with that, you can obtain a B visa. 

[SKipling]

10 minutes ago, Christophers200 said:

You will need paperwork from your employer and with that, you can obtain a B visa. 

You say it's just called a B? I am presuming it stands for business. Where I should have expected an A as in apprentice. 

The email is all I have got from them, and in all likelihood will. 

Your further comment now? 

 

Kipling

[ubonjoe]

Apprenticeships are considered to be part of a education program and have to sponsored by a university.  You would be issued a non-ed visa.

Info is here on Jakarta embassy website. http://www.thaiembassyjakarta.com/en/consular-services/non-immigrant-visa-ed/

[SKipling]

7 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Apprenticeships are considered to be part of a education program and have to sponsored by a university.  You would be issued a non-ed visa.

Info is here on Jakarta embassy website. http://www.thaiembassyjakarta.com/en/consular-services/non-immigrant-visa-ed/

The hotel is a comfortable and fairly well-run establishment. I had only visited it once when it was being reconstructed.

But it is not an *university*.

They dont run any such programmes there either.  

But I am not baulking at your idea of seeking an education visa if that's how it is done. 

I am loathe to upload the email for your benefit at this point. 

I have half a mind at this point to pass it over if I can find someone in the Community with the goods! 

 

Kipling

[Christophers200]

18 minutes ago, SKipling said:

The hotel is a comfortable and fairly well-run establishment. I had only visited it once when it was being reconstructed.

But it is not an *university*.

They dont run any such programmes there either.  

But I am not baulking at your idea of seeking an education visa if that's how it is done. 

I am loathe to upload the email for your benefit at this point. 

I have half a mind at this point to pass it over if I can find someone in the Community with the goods! 

 

Kipling

Good luck but you will not get better advice than is offered here

[SKipling]

9 minutes ago, Christophers200 said:

Good luck but you will not get better advice than is offered here

At which point threads do get longer than you expected. My German friend, so, only sends me photos from his smartphone. 

 

I have been 'researching' my question in other topics. It is a shower. 

 

Regards

Kipling

 

[Christophers200]

1 minute ago, SKipling said:

At which point threads do get longer than you expected. My German friend, so, only sends me photos from his smartphone. 

 

I have been 'researching' my question in other topics. It is a shower. 

 

Regards

Kipling

 

 

You are very mistaken if you believe me to be German! 

[SKipling]

I telephoned the establishment and was passed through to a managerial voice, clearly a Scot, who answered it in his room. He did say it after turning off the sport on his television. After some comedy for reassuring me that I was welcome he asked me to call the hotel back at a convenient time tomorrow as they were completely swept off their feet at the moment by a group arrival. 

The email sender was not available. This cannot be a hoax because the Thai owner of the hotel was a real person.  And my business is not out of the ordinary albeit it might new for them, but not for the industry as a whole. 

More DIY. 

 

Am not rushed. 

 

Regards

Kipling

 

 

 

 

 

[jackdd]

I think you use the wrong word, you would not be an "apprentice", but you would be a "trainee".

You need to get a non-immigrant B visa and a work permit, everything else is illegal.

If all you have and all you get is the email you can not do it.

Edited February 17, 2019 by jackdd

[SKipling]

Hullo Community!

 

I received a callback from the amiable Scotsman. What an unqualifed delight to hear a Scot speak into one's ear- nothing like a telephone to facilitate such pleasure. What happened was that he called up the Thai owner on my behalf, easily inspired by a natural wish to help,  and it was decided between themselves that I should have no problem in visiting Thailand as a tourist and pitching at the hotel as a trainee or as an apprentice. 

This settles my query like I would have wished. I, therefore, consider this topic, as far as I am concerned,  to have reached an end. 

 

Best regards

 

S Kipling

 

[Christophers200]

Glad you have "solved" your problem. Are you aware that what you plan to do is illegal? Your tourist visa will have an endorsement which reads "Employment Prohibited". 

[jackdd]

6 minutes ago, SKipling said:

I should have no problem in visiting Thailand as a tourist and pitching at the hotel as a trainee or as an apprentice. 

Unless immigration police checks the hotel and you, then you would be arrested, put in jail, fined and deported. Probably also banned from Thailand for a while. But good luck ????

Edited February 17, 2019 by jackdd

[SKipling]

The position is not remunerative. I had waived off even a stipend in my original request. WHICH and a little bit of luck had clinched it for me, on hindsight. This does not merit time in gaol. On the contrary. I am looking forward to having a great time in a large establishment such as theirs, located not a hundred miles from Walking Street,  where, since you mentioned them,  the immigration police do not come poking around to check people's credentials. I hope so. I am not being employed. I am a fully-paid up guest on paper. And I intend to move on to better things after a month. 

 

Cheers

Kipling

 

[jackdd]

2 minutes ago, SKipling said:

The position is not remunerative.

Doesn't matter, it's still considered work in Thailand, so it's illegal without the correct visa and work permit.

[Christophers200]

2 minutes ago, SKipling said:

The position is not remunerative. I had waived off even a stipend in my original request. WHICH and a little bit of luck had clinched it for me, on hindsight. This does not merit time in gaol. On the contrary. I am looking forward to having a great time in a large establishment such as theirs, located not a hundred miles from Walking Street,  where, since you mentioned them,  the immigration police do not come poking around to check people's credentials. I hope so. I am not being employed. I am a fully-paid up guest on paper. And I intend to move on to better things after a month. 

 

Cheers

Kipling

 

Even volunteering in Thailand is regarded as work. Be aware that immigration police are very active at the moment and are arresting and deporting 100's of illegal workers including from places like Phuket where I happen to live. 

[elviajero]

40 minutes ago, SKipling said:

What happened was that he called up the Thai owner on my behalf, easily inspired by a natural wish to help,  and it was decided between themselves that I should have no problem in visiting Thailand as a tourist and pitching at the hotel as a trainee or as an apprentice. 

Employers will often say this and it's wrong. You will have a big problem if caught working - as a tourist - by immigration or the department of labour.

 

10 minutes ago, SKipling said:

The position is not remunerative. I had waived off even a stipend in my original request. WHICH and a little bit of luck had clinched it for me, on hindsight.

It doesn't matter if you work for free. Any work, paid/unpaid or voluntary requires permission.

 

You need to get a Non 'B' visa to enter the country AND a Work Permit - sponsored by the Hotel - to be able to work. If you work without either of those you are working illegally.

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, SKipling said:

Hullo Community!

 

I received a callback from the amiable Scotsman. What an unqualifed delight to hear a Scot speak into one's ear- nothing like a telephone to facilitate such pleasure. What happened was that he called up the Thai owner on my behalf, easily inspired by a natural wish to help,  and it was decided between themselves that I should have no problem in visiting Thailand as a tourist and pitching at the hotel as a trainee or as an apprentice. 

This settles my query like I would have wished. I, therefore, consider this topic, as far as I am concerned,  to have reached an end. 

 

Best regards

 

S Kipling

 

 

But are the people you mentioned and who 'decided' it would not be a problem highly knowledgeable on this specific subject to the point they can make substantive official statements about this matter, or are they just guessing and assuming 'why not'? 

 

 

Edited February 17, 2019 by scorecard

[SKipling]

Hello? 

That includes even unpaid work? And even what those who volunteer for, for example, Oxfam, do?

I'll be damned if I dont smell something funny about this, now. Hope it's not because of what you guys have been saying today. 

Well how hard is it to get the B and the work permit? Can they be purchased with hard cash? 

Fellows, all I want to do is see how they manage operations. I have it on authority, who shall be nameless,  that seeing is no longer viewed as 'work', now, when previously it might have been. I am not going to be able to link the page or pages where the new rules are described to here because I havent read them off the page with mine own eyes on the Internet.

Perhaps the new rules are offline yet.  Besides, it does strike me as commonsense to expect the managers on the ground to know better.  

It would be unseemly to argue the rules with my new acquaintances at the hotel with whom I intend to spend the best part of a month, which is what I believe I shall do if I quote your warnings to them and ask them to counter them for my satisfaction.  I think it would be unthinkable for someone in my position to do so. 

I came here to gen up on the procedure etc, only to get a strong feeling that I would be buying myself trouble or worse with this Opportunity in Phuket. 

I am not sure where this ( both this thread and my plans) is leading. I am going to sleep on it and hear the Thai manager anyway,  tomorrow. Better still, I will use Skype. Does Skype let you record calls? Whatever! 

 

Regrets

Kipling

 

 

 

Edited February 17, 2019 by SKipling
proofread

[Christophers200]

10 minutes ago, SKipling said:

Hello? 

That includes even unpaid work? And even what those who volunteer for, for example, Oxfam do? I'll be damned if I dont smell something funny about this, now. Hope it's not because of what you guys have been saying.

Well how hard is it to get the B and the work permit? Can they be purchased? 

Fellows, all I want to do is see how they manage operations. I have it on authority that seeing is no longer viewed as 'work' , now, when previously it might have been. Clearly I cannot link where the new rules are located because I havent read them off the page with mine own eyes on the Internet. Perhaps the new rules are offline yet. It strikes me as commonsense that the managers on the ground know better.  

It would be unseemly to argue the rules with my new acquaintances at the hotel with whom I intend to spend the best part of a month. 

I came here to gen up on the procedure etc, only to feel that I would shortly be buying myself trouble and worse. 

 

I am not sure this ( both this thread and my plans) is leading. 

 

Regrets

Kipling

 

 

 

As you were told before a stack of paperwork is required from your prospective employer, school/university before a B or ED visa can be acquired they cannot just be bought. The "rules" are not new and have been in force for a long time and whilst work permit regulations have been relaxed they have not been abolished even for unpaid work. Your new acquaintances are feeding you very poor advice.

[elviajero]

22 minutes ago, SKipling said:

Hello? 

That includes even unpaid work? And even what those who volunteer for, for example, Oxfam, do?

Yes. But if volunteering for an NGO like Oxfam you would only need a Non 'O' visa and work permit.

 

Working for free at a Hotel would not be classed as volunteering.

 

22 minutes ago, SKipling said:

I'll be damned if I dont smell something funny about this, now. Hope it's not because of what you guys have been saying today. 

Well how hard is it to get the B and the work permit? Can they be purchased with hard cash? 

You need to get the required paperwork from your employer to apply for the Non 'B'. Then once in the country you/your employer needs to apply for a WP from the local labour office before you can start work.

Visa requirements;

Required Documents:

1. Visa Application form(s) and photograph(s): 
   Completed and signed Visa Application form and 2 recent photograph(s) (size 3.5×4.5 cm). Non-Indonesian applicants may be required to submit more than one set of application form. (See: Additional Requirements for Non-Indonesian Applicants)
2. Passport (valid for no less than 6 months) 
3. Business-related Documents:
   1. For employment in Thailand
      1. An invitation letter from the employer in Thailand indicating the applicant’s full name, passport number, future position, length of contract, and salary, coupled with a copy of ID card or passport of the authorized person who signed the letter.
      2. Approval Letter from Ministry of Labour (WP3) issued by the Office of Foreign Workers Administration, Department of Employment, Ministry of Labour (Japanese nationals are exempted from submitting WP3, in accordance with JTEPA). Other documents which could be used as substitute for WP3 Approval Letter include a letter from the Board of Investment, public and private universities, schools, international organisations or charitable organisations
      3. Evidence of qualification (university certificates and CV)

 

http://www.thaiembassyjakarta.com/en/consular-services/non-immigrant-visa-b/

 

The only way you could work as a tourist is if the Hotel has paid off immigration or the labour office to turn a blind eye. 

 

[Pib]

We'll probably be seeing the OP in one of Big Joke's photo ops.

[Christophers200]

1 minute ago, Pib said:

We'll probably be seeing the OP in one of Big Joke's photo ops.

Especially as he intends working illegally in Phuket - a hot spot for BJ's catch 'em net! 

[Pib]

1 hour ago, Christophers200 said:

Especially as he intends working illegally in Phuket - a hot spot for BJ's catch 'em net! 

But not to worry....I expect the amiable Scotsman will come to the OP's rescue and convince BJ all is fine.

[Christophers200]

1 minute ago, Pib said:

But not to worry....I expect the amiable Scotsman will come to the OP's rescue and convince BJ all is fine.

I know a Scotsman who is in the Hotel business - A man with short arms and long pockets a completely untrustworthy character. 

[jacko45k]

Why do I suspect this OP is not quite true?

[samran]

46 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Why do I suspect this OP is not quite true?

Had the same feeling. Chains are being yanked. 

[SKipling]

Hullo Community (and to the respectable, sceptical members in it)!

 

KKK (or Kawp Khunn Krap)!

 

I am posting this because I promised to speak with the Thai owner. After much ado since morning, I was able to get her on the phone. It turned out that it was a she. I could have sworn that the amiable Scotsman had said to me that he had spoken to a he! Since she wasn't au fait with using Skype, I had to dispense with the pleasure of seeing her for the moment, if you see what I mean?

But I have recorded the conversation alright and if I have the permission of this website, I shall be happy to upload it for the benefit of the readers here, especially the doubting Thomases. 

 

The long and short of it is that It is all sorted and there *is* absolutely nothing whatsoever to worry about. It has been decided that I shall inform them at least a day before my arrival so that they can make doubly sure the set of rooms I shall be using for the next one month is kept ready for me. I have asked them not to send a car to pick me up because for one thing I personally do not like being received, and for another I am always happy to make my own arrangements inthat respect.

 

I do not wish to set the cat among the pigeons here, neither, as it turns out,  did she, but "nobody has seen those in the so called photo-ops with Mr Youknowwho fly out of Thai airspace". It is human nature to be drawn to the trifles. 

 

I hope this helps.

 

Again, I hope this thread can be closed as I have nothing more to add.

 

Regards and Farewell,

 

Kipling

 

PS: I do not expect this website to permit me to upload a private conversation with the lady for reasons of common human decency. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 18, 2019 by SKipling
555Error

[Myran]

23 hours ago, Pib said:

But not to worry....I expect the amiable Scotsman will come to the OP's rescue and convince BJ all is fine.

And what better way to facilitate said incarceration but with the most wondrous of human inventions – the jail cell. Oh what joy he shall experience there in the bowels of the mountain, the cage of the tiger, the depths of the sea.

[Pib]

1 hour ago, SKipling said:

The long and short of it is that It is all sorted and there *is* absolutely nothing whatsoever to worry about.

Oh, that's how you are getting around working (what you call being an apprentice) without the proper visa and work permit...you had telephone call with your future Thai employer.  Be sure to save the recorded call for BJ to hear during the photo op.