Chinese investors fuelling Thailand’s property market

[Ulic]

The Chinese are investing heavily in real estate in Thailand, Vietnam, and Cambodia. The countries are all close, the Chinese can travel to them, and most importantly the monied Chinese population knows the importance of getting money out of China. The Chinese economy with the shadow banking system, ghost cities, and the Chinese government spitting out economic numbers to keep the population and foreign companies/banks calm and involved is a house of cards ready to collapse. Trump putting the Chinese economy into stress with tariffs because of Chinese intellectual property theft, forced technology transfer and failure to open its domestic markets to foreign competition could be what pushes them over the edge. Not a doom and gloomer but, we live in troubled times.

[bkk6060]

4 hours ago, Kenchamp said:

Not Bangkok, i'm in Jomtien.

 

I concede being from the UK that exchange rates until now have helped with any potential profit from purchases before all this Brexit <deleted> hit the fan and that the last one i purchased in 2017 might swing the other way if all of a sudden a fantastic deal is done which propels sterling much higher. However, ocean front with full on sea views will always be highly sought after which is what i bought in 2017 and where i now live, i am also very comfortable with the investment.

Well, the Chinese are doing very little if any buying in Jomtien.  And, when you put that white elephant on the market competing against the over 10,000 other properties currently for sale in the Pattaya area good luck.

Good chance it turns out to not be an investment at all when you have to sell it at a loss.

Good you are comfortable with it though.

[thaiguzzi]

Re, the headline of this topic.

Just today read a piece on the BBC website about the same thing happening in Athens, Greece.

The Chinese are buying up apartments in Athens suitable for AirB'n'B, driving up rents, and making local housing unaffordable for the locals, either buying or renting.

Sound familiar?

[DLock]

13 minutes ago, thaiguzzi said:

Re, the headline of this topic.

Just today read a piece on the BBC website about the same thing happening in Athens, Greece.

The Chinese are buying up apartments in Athens suitable for AirB'n'B, driving up rents, and making local housing unaffordable for the locals, either buying or renting.

Sound familiar?

In my Moo Baan (Chiang Mai), the average home is 8 - 12million baht and the Chinese own around 1/3rd of the sold homes in Phase 1, and over half in Phase 2. They are only here every month or so, and fortunately we were able to stop AirBnB before it became too big of a problem.

 

But yes, AirBnB for their Chinese compatriots is very high on their agendas.

 

If Chinese buy next to you, you can be pretty sure of vans full of Chinese families at all times of the day and night, and they are noisy, completely unaware of noise and mess they make and will take over every common area in your development...

 

I'm sure they are Developers who are planning entire Chinese owned developments so that AirBnB and noise is not something they have to worry about.

 

Buying condos now has a new risk...the Chinese neighbors...

[Kenchamp]

38 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Well, the Chinese are doing very little if any buying in Jomtien.  And, when you put that white elephant on the market competing against the over 10,000 other properties currently for sale in the Pattaya area good luck.

Good chance it turns out to not be an investment at all when you have to sell it at a loss.

Good you are comfortable with it though.

You clearly don't know what you're talking about.

Who do you think are/have been buying the 1600+ condos for sale off plan in Cococabana?

 

Now run along and troll somewhere else

[Rod the Sod]

On 2/18/2019 at 2:09 PM, bowerboy said:

 

1. Is this a real money in the bank 70% gain or is it hypothetical (ie: you think it’s worth x but you haven’t actually received that in a real actual sale of the asset).

 

2. If so then please enlighten us as to where you brought the property and what the details were (price per sqm, bought off plan, bought when sold when etc). Why was the cost of the property?

 

Same questions for Donald Trump who made the 400% in 3 weeks or whatever it was.

Fair question, and yes hypothetical of course. Bought in 2014 off plan for 150k per SM and everything around here starts at 190k psm nowadays (often in a worse location). I am in Soi 7 Suk, which is the only quiet Soi in Lower Suk and 200m from the BTS. I paid in HK$ to get ownership and as a Brit worked on a GBP exchange rate. A combination of increased land price, location and FX took me to 68%. It is 72sm on the top floor (Gym, pool etc. etc.). I think it would rent at 40k+ very quickly given the location.

 

I didn't originally reply to be smug - just tired of people telling us all their views on property investment in Thailand when most know nowt about it at all other than bar room tattle and sad stories that are countless true and heartbreaking for those unlucky enough to be involved. I am a serious investor and like to spread risk. Thailand is my higher risk investment whilst some others are pretty safe.

[madmen]

On 2/18/2019 at 7:31 AM, yellowboat said:

They are the new suckers.  You can make money, but it is really difficult.  There are easier places to invest and make money.  Thailand aint one of them.

Poor little shoe box renters giving financial advise on condo purchases ????

[madmen]

21 minutes ago, Rod the Sod said:

Fair question, and yes hypothetical of course. Bought in 2014 off plan for 150k per SM and everything around here starts at 190k psm nowadays (often in a worse location). I am in Soi 7 Suk, which is the only quiet Soi in Lower Suk and 200m from the BTS. I paid in HK$ to get ownership and as a Brit worked on a GBP exchange rate. A combination of increased land price, location and FX took me to 68%. It is 72sm on the top floor (Gym, pool etc. etc.). I think it would rent at 40k+ very quickly given the location.

 

I didn't originally reply to be smug - just tired of people telling us all their views on property investment in Thailand when most know nowt about it at all other than bar room tattle and sad stories that are countless true and heartbreaking for those unlucky enough to be involved. I am a serious investor and like to spread risk. Thailand is my higher risk investment whilst some others are pretty safe.

Your right soi 7 is probably the quietest soi lower sukhumvit. Im soi 13 which is looking great with a new rd and drains installed and the 5 star hyatt regency on the corner. The old German beer house relocating there from soi 11 is a nice addition

 

But here is the thing. I bought 13 years ago off the plan for just shy of 5 million baht for 80 sqm. I just rented it out on air bnb for 4 months while I traveled at 45k / month ! thats 5million investment for 45k return ! 40 k for long term not a problem.

 

Im tempted o sell and buy back oz dollars as Im 20% to 30 % profit on exchange rate alone and at current value 8 m baht thats a nice payday but dont really want to as the real estate scene lower sukhumvit has exploded in the last 5 years. Take a look at the Q condo connecting to Nana Bts 1 to 5 million USA dollars ! and its in a red light district. But there are big changes happening lower sukhumvit and just like any red light district in the world they eventually get built out due to expanding populations wanting a home as close as possible to the city center

 

I feel sorry for the dummy shoe box renters throwing out the old " never buy real estate in thailand" chestnut. Must be a bitch living in a crappy 6k room with a squeaky ceiling fan, cement mattress and vinyl sofa with a tv from the 80"s ????

[Khaeng Mak]

22 minutes ago, madmen said:

Your right soi 7 is probably the quietest soi lower sukhumvit. Im soi 13 which is looking great with a new rd and drains installed and the 5 star hyatt regency on the corner. The old German beer house relocating there from soi 11 is a nice addition

 

But here is the thing. I bought 13 years ago off the plan for just shy of 5 million baht for 80 sqm. I just rented it out on air bnb for 4 months while I traveled at 45k / month ! thats 5million investment for 45k return ! 40 k for long term not a problem.

 

Im tempted o sell and buy back oz dollars as Im 20% to 30 % profit on exchange rate alone and at current value 8 m baht thats a nice payday but dont really want to as the real estate scene lower sukhumvit has exploded in the last 5 years. Take a look at the Q condo connecting to Nana Bts 1 to 5 million USA dollars ! and its in a red light district. But there are big changes happening lower sukhumvit and just like any red light district in the world they eventually get built out due to expanding populations wanting a home as close as possible to the city center

 

I feel sorry for the dummy shoe box renters throwing out the old " never buy real estate in thailand" chestnut. Must be a bitch living in a crappy 6k room with a squeaky ceiling fan, cement mattress and vinyl sofa with a tv from the 80"s ????

Stop preening your feathers.  The same sum invested in an S&P 500 ETF over the same 13 year time frame would now be worth the equivalent of 13.3 million baht.  So you have effectively lost 5.3 million baht, not counting your outgoings for body corporate and other holding costs. Oh and good luck trying to sell into a collapsing condo market. I imagine your decor and furniture is also now rather dated. Especially if you have had Air BNBs trashing your place.  How much will it cost you to refurbish?

 

Or are you happy to sleep on the same mattress that the Air BNB guys shagged all those 1000 baht hookers on?

[Khaeng Mak]

On 2/18/2019 at 8:37 PM, Ulic said:

The Chinese are investing heavily in real estate in Thailand, Vietnam, and Cambodia. The countries are all close, the Chinese can travel to them, and most importantly the monied Chinese population knows the importance of getting money out of China. The Chinese economy with the shadow banking system, ghost cities, and the Chinese government spitting out economic numbers to keep the population and foreign companies/banks calm and involved is a house of cards ready to collapse. Trump putting the Chinese economy into stress with tariffs because of Chinese intellectual property theft, forced technology transfer and failure to open its domestic markets to foreign competition could be what pushes them over the edge. Not a doom and gloomer but, we live in troubled times.

And yet, at the same time, the Thai elite are keeping the baht inflated, to better enable them to purchase assets outside of Thailand. 

[tlandtday]

On 2/18/2019 at 7:31 AM, yellowboat said:

They are the new suckers.  You can make money, but it is really difficult.  There are easier places to invest and make money.  Thailand aint one of them.

 

 

Many builders pre sell condos and a lot of it is being sold in China.  Many make promises guaranteeing a rental return for absentee owners which leads the Chinese buyers to believe that the units are actually being rented out and they believe it will continue when the contact ends. They are being told they will get anything from 5 percent guarantee for up to 10 years.  Of course these extra costs are being built into the price of the unit as well as leaving the seller in a position they often need to keep building so they can sell and use the money to pay the rental guarantees.  Sound familiar?

 

And the flipside is if the seller does not presell enough units they can simply run away with the money as little enforcement is being done.  Sound familiar?  At some point these schemes are destined to come crashing down.