Polish PM cancels trip to Israel in wake of comments on Poles in Holocaust

[webfact]

Polish PM cancels trip to Israel in wake of comments on Poles in Holocaust

 

FILE PHOTO: Poland's Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki and Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu look on during the Middle East summit in Warsaw, Poland, February 14, 2019. REUTERS/Kacper Pempel/File Photo

 

WARSAW (Reuters) - Poland's prime minister has cancelled a trip to Israel in the wake of reported remarks made by his Israeli counterpart suggesting Polish complicity during the Holocaust, an aide in his office told Polish media on Sunday.

 

A government spokeswoman confirmed to Reuters that Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki would not attend the summit and would send Foreign Minister Jacek Czaputowicz instead.

 

Morawiecki informed Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of his decision to cancel his visit in a telephone call on Sunday afternoon, spokeswoman Joanna Kopcinska said.

 

The summit of four central and Eastern European countries is set to be held in Jerusalem this week.

 

Poland's government has sought to debunk references to potential Polish collaboration in the Holocaust, in an effort to "fight for the truth," Morawiecki told Poland's parliament last year.

 

Netanyahu's office said in a statement the prime minister, who was in Warsaw for a U.S.-sponsored Middle East conference when he made the comments, had been misquoted by The Jerusalem Post, which issued a corrected story.

 

In a later statement, Netanyahu's office said in his remarks on the question of Polish collaboration with Nazi occupiers, he had not cast any blanket blame.

 

Netanyahu's acting foreign minister, Israel Katz, sounded circumspect about Morawiecki's cancellation.

 

"In diplomacy one always tries to avoid causing offence. But no one will change historical truth," Katz told Israel's Reshet 13 TV. "Poles collaborated with the Nazis, certainly."

 

Israeli Ambassador Anna Azari was summoned by Poland's government on Friday and was asked to clarify Netanyahu's comments.

 

Morawiecki said in an interview published on Sunday by Polish news agency PAP that Azari explained that Netanyahu was referring to individual cases of Poles collaborating with Nazis.

 

Poland had summoned Israeli Ambassador Anna Azari on Friday for clarification of Netanyahu's comments.

 

Tensions between Israel and Poland ran high last year after Poland introduced new legislation that would make the use of phrases such as "Polish death camps" punishable by up to three years in prison.

 

After pressure from the U.S. government and an outcry in Israel, Poland watered down the legislation, removing the prison sentences.

 

Many Poles still refuse to accept research showing thousands participated in the Holocaust in addition to the thousands who risked their lives to help the Jews.

 

(Reporting by Joanna Plucinska, Anna Wlodarczak-Semczuk and Dan Williams; editing by David Evans)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-02-18

[impulse]

If doing what you're told to do, with a gun pointed at your head, is "collaboration", I'm sure they can point to thousands of Jews who collaborated by herding other Jews into the gas chambers and collecting their clothing.

 

[buasaard]

47 minutes ago, impulse said:

If doing what you're told to do, with a gun pointed at your head, is "collaboration", I'm sure they can point to thousands of Jews who collaborated by herding other Jews into the gas chambers and collecting their clothing.

 

but israelis never denied this.

[SheungWan]

57 minutes ago, impulse said:

If doing what you're told to do, with a gun pointed at your head, is "collaboration", I'm sure they can point to thousands of Jews who collaborated by herding other Jews into the gas chambers and collecting their clothing.

Rather pathetic attempt to mangle the meaning of things.

[sanemax]

58 minutes ago, impulse said:

If doing what you're told to do, with a gun pointed at your head, is "collaboration", I'm sure they can point to thousands of Jews who collaborated by herding other Jews into the gas chambers and collecting their clothing.

 

Were there some Poles who willingly collaborated though ?

[Grouse]

The Poles got it worse than any other non soviet nation. I wouldn't take the moral high ground against them

 

From 1939 to 1949 The polish population dropped from 35M to 24M and didn't  recover until the 70s. 5M by enforced emigration and 6M deaths! The difference between the Poles and the Israelies is that the Poles don't keep going on about it 80 years later

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/percentage-of-countries-who-died-during-wwii-2014-5

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_changes_of_Poland_immediately_after_World_War_II

[bristolboy]

The pre-WW2 government was extremely anti-semitic. Laws were passed putting restrictions on Jews. Various labor unions and even the doctors' union excluded Jews from membership.

 

[bendejo]

Many of the Jews that came to the US in the late 1800s were from Poland.  That country's antisemitism was infamous long before Little Adolf was born.

 

"In diplomacy one always tries to avoid causing offence. But no one will change historical truth," Katz told Israel's Reshet 13 TV. "Poles collaborated with the Nazis, certainly."

I used to hear stories from survivors when I was a kid,  most all seemed to imply that the Germans used eastern Europeans to guard the death camps because of their reputation for the hatred of them.  I recall mentions of Poles, Ukranians,  Serbs, "White Russians," Hungarians. 

 

 

[candide]

Some Poles helped Jews, That's true but there has been a widespread antisemitism in this countries. Ask Jews originating from Poland or their descent and they will usually not tell you nice stories. There have been pogroms, Jews denounced by neighbours in order to get their properties, Jews blacmailed, etc... After the war it was not nice too: still pogroms, Jews beaten or killed by their ex-neighbours because they wanted to get back their properties and various discrimination.

[bristolboy]

6 minutes ago, bendejo said:

Many of the Jews that came to the US in the late 1800s were from Poland.  That country's antisemitism was infamous long before Little Adolf was born.

I used to hear stories from survivors when I was a kid,  most all seemed to imply that the Germans used eastern Europeans to guard the death camps because of their reputation for the hatred of them.  I recall mentions of Poles, Ukranians,  Serbs, "White Russians," Hungarians.

 

 

To give the Poles some credit, it was actually a better place for Jews than Russia or the Ukraine. Lots of Jews emigrated from those countries to Poland.

[Pedrogaz]

I have no doubt that there were many Poles that pointed out Jews to the Germans, perhaps captured them and delivered them over to the Nazis and the like. Equally I'm sure that there were many, many Poles who helped Polish Jews escape to the UK, Switzerland and the like.

I am no fan of Bibi, indeed, there can be few people on the planet more evil than him, but Bibi is correct on this issue and history will not change if the Polish PM has a hissy fit. 

Having said that I am glad Morawieki dropped out of the meeting, nations should be more careful picking their friends.

[bristolboy]

2 minutes ago, Pedrogaz said:

I have no doubt that there were many Poles that pointed out Jews to the Germans, perhaps captured them and delivered them over to the Nazis and the like. Equally I'm sure that there were many, many Poles who helped Polish Jews escape to the UK, Switzerland and the like.

I am no fan of Bibi, indeed, there can be few people on the planet more evil than him, but Bibi is correct on this issue and history will not change if the Polish PM has a hissy fit. 

Having said that I am glad Morawieki dropped out of the meeting, nations should be more careful picking their friends.

There's dropping out for good reasons and dropping out for bad reasons.

[sanemax]

37 minutes ago, Pedrogaz said:

I have no doubt that there were many Poles that pointed out Jews to the Germans, perhaps captured them and delivered them over to the Nazis and the like. Equally I'm sure that there were many, many Poles who helped Polish Jews escape to the UK, Switzerland and the like.

I am no fan of Bibi, indeed, there can be few people on the planet more evil than him, but Bibi is correct on this issue and history will not change if the Polish PM has a hissy fit. 

Having said that I am glad Morawieki dropped out of the meeting, nations should be more careful picking their friends.

Yes, had you been a Polish guy in the 1940's in Warsaw, I am quite sure that you would have been pointing Bibi out to the Nazis and letting them know that hes a Jew

[Benmart]

Collaborators have probably existed for every purge, pogrom, cleansing, extermination or whatever name the era refered to, called it. To deny that no one in a country, kingdom, principality, etc., was involved in any shape or form is hard to imagine. Poles are not exempt or unique in that respect.

[mauGR1]

36 minutes ago, Benmart said:

Collaborators have probably existed for every purge, pogrom, cleansing, extermination or whatever name the era refered to, called it. To deny that no one in a country, kingdom, principality, etc., was involved in any shape or form is hard to imagine. Poles are not exempt or unique in that respect.

Well said, every country has skeletons in the closet, including those preaching from high horses of morality.

[Scott]

Troll posts and replies removed.  

 

[simple1]

7 hours ago, sanemax said:

Were there some Poles who willingly collaborated though ?

Yes. some Polish 'christian' citizens willingly murdered their Jewish neighbours e.g. Jedwabne. On the other side of the coin it is estimated approx 2 million non Jewish Poles were killed during WW11 by the Soviets and Nazis.

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/02/poland-holocaust-death-camps/552455/

 

 

[Kasset Tak]

There must be a reason why Jews have been hated all over the world since the beginning of recorded history... buy saying that I would probably be branded as antisemitic. Same if I say that Israel is killing Palestinians, that would also brand me as antisemitic... since 2014 Israel have killed about 1500 combatants (if it would be in WWII Europe, then we would call then resistance fighters...) and 2600 civilians/non combatants (many of those being children), while a smashing total of 72 Israelis have been killed by Palestinians over the same time frame!

[sanemax]

4 minutes ago, Kasset Tak said:

There must be a reason why Jews have been hated all over the world since the beginning of recorded history... buy saying that I would probably be branded as antisemitic. 

What is that reason ?

[Kasset Tak]

3 minutes ago, sanemax said:

What is that reason ?

I don't know, but simply making that statement has a tendency to brand me as antisemitic.
Anyway, when growing up my grandparents caretaker was a Jewish holocaust survivor (first Bergen-Belsen and later Auschwitz) who told me all about her childhood horrors, I have been to Auschwitz and other concentration/death camps, and I have studied WWII so much that even when I was in middle school and high school I could prove factual errors in our history textbooks...
Still, people have a tendency to call me antisemitic for stating facts and criticize Israel... a country that call Dror Feiler, a Israeli-Swedish (Yes, he is Jewish and he served in the Israeli army...) musician antisemitic, as he compare Israel and how they treat the Palestinians with how the black population was treated in South Africa during Apartheid...

[bristolboy]

7 hours ago, Kasset Tak said:

There must be a reason why Jews have been hated all over the world since the beginning of recorded history... buy saying that I would probably be branded as antisemitic. Same if I say that Israel is killing Palestinians, that would also brand me as antisemitic... since 2014 Israel have killed about 1500 combatants (if it would be in WWII Europe, then we would call then resistance fighters...) and 2600 civilians/non combatants (many of those being children), while a smashing total of 72 Israelis have been killed by Palestinians over the same time frame!

If by the world you mean the Christian World, yes. Especially that part of it that was Catholic or Orthodox. But the Jews were not demonized in Muslim countries for most of their history. They may have been looked down up, as were Christians, for subscribing to an inferior religion. But none of that nonsense about Jews killing and eating Christian children. It was only in the late 19th century that this kind of nonsense came to the Arab world, mostly thanks to French colonialists.

As for the Chinese, Indians, Japanese. etc.. really?

[sanemax]

7 hours ago, Kasset Tak said:

I don't know, but simply making that statement has a tendency to brand me as antisemitic.
Anyway, when growing up my grandparents caretaker was a Jewish holocaust survivor (first Bergen-Belsen and later Auschwitz) who told me all about her childhood horrors, I have been to Auschwitz and other concentration/death camps, and I have studied WWII so much that even when I was in middle school and high school I could prove factual errors in our history textbooks...
 

Go ahead, point those factual errors in the history books 

[Grouse]

16 hours ago, Grouse said:

The Poles got it worse than any other non soviet nation. I wouldn't take the moral high ground against them

 

From 1939 to 1949 The polish population dropped from 35M to 24M and didn't  recover until the 70s. 5M by enforced emigration and 6M deaths! The difference between the Poles and the Israelies is that the Poles don't keep going on about it 80 years later

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/percentage-of-countries-who-died-during-wwii-2014-5

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_changes_of_Poland_immediately_after_World_War_II

OK, Dundee, what confuses you about my post? 12 like it, but you are confused! Kindly enlighten us!

[Kasset Tak]

15 hours ago, sanemax said:

Go ahead, point those factual errors in the history books 

Well, I assume that most of the facts in history books (written by well established historical researchers) are accurate, however many times you have contradicting facts/statements between different scholars. 
What I was talking about was the history textbooks that I had in school had errors that even I as a 12 year old boy could find... sadly many history textbooks used in schools today also have errors or miss essential proven/recorded facts from our history.

[sanemax]

2 minutes ago, Kasset Tak said:

Well, I assume that most of the facts in history books (written by well established historical researchers) are accurate, however many times you have contradicting facts/statements between different scholars. 
What I was talking about was the history textbooks that I had in school had errors that even I as a 12 year old boy could find... sadly many history textbooks used in schools today also have errors or miss essential proven/recorded facts from our history.

Could you state what those errors were/are ?

[Prissana Pescud]

On 2/18/2019 at 8:19 AM, sanemax said:

Were there some Poles who willingly collaborated though ?

I am sure there were some. But you do not label a whole nation on the actions of others.

Poles fought gallantly to defend their country against the Nazis. Don't forget that Russia also invaded.

Russia and Germany were allies then.

I am not sure if any Jew was in that defense.

The holocaust was against Jews in particular but also included suspected communists, gays, disabled, political opponents and any Nazi dissenter.

In all, over 12 millions were murdered in Nazi Death Camps, not Polish, German or wherever.

It took US to wait for Japan to attack them before they entered an already 2 year old war as there were many supporters of Germany there too as well.

Not everything is so clear cut, black or white.

Israel should pay homage to the many Poles who fled to UK and fought gallantly again.

How many Jews fled to UK to fight against the Nazis.

And I do not forget the mainly Jewish Poles who cracked the Enigma Code in Britain. 

[sanemax]

4 minutes ago, Prissana Pescud said:

I am sure there were some. But you do not label a whole nation on the actions of others.

 

Did you read the O.P ?

Netahanyu didnt say that Poland collaborated with the Nazis .

He stated that some Polish people did , which is correct .

[Prissana Pescud]

On 2/18/2019 at 1:00 PM, mauGR1 said:

Well said, every country has skeletons in the closet, including those preaching from high horses of morality.

We all know about the German populace that assisted in pointing out the Jews.

Little is mentioned about The french who probably exceeded all expectations of the Nazis. But all European countries that 

were occupied had collaborators that actively assisted in Nazi death Camps. There were no German, Polish, Austrian death camps,

Only Nazi Death Camps. You cannot condemn a whole country for the cowardly acts of a few collaborators and that corrupt

Jew leading Israel until he goes to jail should know better than condemn a country that actually fought to defeat Nazis.

[Prissana Pescud]

2 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Did you read the O.P ?

Netahanyu didnt say that Poland collaborated with the Nazis .

He stated that some Polish people did , which is correct .

So why did he not mention every other country occupied by the Nazis which had collaborators.

No, he mentioned a country which actively tried to oppose the Nazis. Lame

[sanemax]

Just now, Prissana Pescud said:

So why did he not mention every other country occupied by the Nazis which had collaborators.

No, he mentioned a country which actively tried to oppose the Nazis. Lame

He was replying to a specific question about Polish collaboration  , its says that in the O.P.