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6 billion baht request to Cabinet for sugarcane harvesters to reduce smog

webfact

By webfact
in Thailand News

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White Christmas13 Gold Member

White Christmas13

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, bluesofa said:

I follow your cynical approach about selling the machines.

 

I too assume it's the leftovers that are burnt. Does a sugarcane harvester remove the 'stubble' at the same time it harvests the sugarcane itself, thereby negating the burning requirement?

 

Or could the farmers still burn it in one large bonfire, as they won't have evolved a way to dispose of it?

Sugar cane burning season is now underway across northern NSW. Sugar cane burning is carried out by farmers before they harvest the cane. It helps make it easier to process the cane by removing things like the stalks and leaves. At this time of year it's not unusual to see cane burns lighting up the night sky

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sometimewoodworker Ruby Member

sometimewoodworker

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, canopy said:

It has already been observed that when the cane buyers put in policies that they would not purchase burnt cane, the Thai farmers harvested their green cane, sold it, THEN BURNT THE FIELDS AS USUAL. In light of this, how are harvesting machines going to help reduce smog?

 

Because the fields are not burnt. The harvesters, that no individual farmer can afford cut the cane and leaves.

 

It is not a simple as using cane cutting machines as if you do that you strip a major source of income from local workers who can earn between 4 and 8 times the minimum daily wage by cutting cane. So then you concentrate the income into fewer and fewer hands.

 

Burning cane is quite frightening when viewed from only 10 metres from the driveway and immediately beside the trees on our land.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dv-EmUjbPA4

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loong Ruby Member

loong

Posted
Posted

As already mentioned, the burning is done before the harvest.

Sugarcane is a grass and regrows and so can be harvested again without replanting (usually 3 years).

I used to live in a village North of Khon Kaen city and contractors from Korat and Kanchanaburi would collect locals to go and work for them. They were usually away from November until Songkran. Obviously these contractors had a lot of work and yet they chose to use manual labour. You would think that if anyone was going to use harvesting machines, it would be them. I guess there are reasons that they opted for the manual approach.

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CGW Platinum Member

CGW

Posted
Posted

The five "ps" Pre Planning Prevents Poor Performance" in Thailand's case this could be amended to "Pre Planning Prevents Pollution Problem" the "government" has actively encouraged the cultivation of sugar cane, the last couple of years alone there has been a 30% increase in crop - now they are surprised that it is being harvested in the manner it is :shock1: did it not occur to anyone in "government" that the procurement of harvesting equipment may well be a good idea before choking the country & making worldwide headlines for the wrong reasons ????

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Muhendis Platinum Member

Muhendis

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

:cheesy::cheesy::cheesy:

sugarbeet

sugarcane

:cheesy::cheesy::cheesy:

4m tall sugarbeet.....????

 

 

The burning of sugarcane is done at the beginning of the harvest.

It is the FIRST process, not the last.

Cane cutters are on piecemeal work, the more they cut and bundle the more they earn.

The owner of the field decides if his cane will be cut, post burning or not burnt at all.

You lose 10-15% in weight and produce by burning.

But...

You gain 20% in productivity and the ease of finding labour.

I doubt any of you have walked through 3-4 metres of cane.

It's not nice.

Its not fun.

The stuff is sharp. It scratches. it is itchy.

You need to be fully clothed up, balaclava, hat, long sleeved thick shirt, gloves trousers, wellies.

Now you burn it.

You can actually walk thru it.

You still get togged up, it is still hot, hard work, but it is much more manageable, more pleasant if that's the right word.

Generally, most times that is it.

Cane will then regrow and is normally harvested 3 times, ie 3 years, before being plowed in, and new cane grown, or something else.

Occasionally they will burn a stubble field, but rarely.

 

So yeah, the only solution is expensive state of the art machinery that no landowner can afford.

Over to you Thailand Sugar Corporation....

 

 

Excellent description of the labour intensive process. The local sugar mill company has machines to do the job ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrMTz8DfZU4 ) but they will charge the farmer under the terms of a contract for their use. The farmer also has to pay the sugar cane company to transport the cane from farm to mill. 50% of the crop value is eaten up this way. It is cheaper and more profitable for the farmer to burn pre-harvest and cut by hand. It would be better if the government controlled the rental price of the harvester than to buy a load of machines at 10 million Baht each.

 

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fruitman Silver Member

fruitman

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, samjaidee said:

Very funny. Sugar Beet grows underground and Sugar Cane grows above ground. Completely different crops.

As if i don't know that.

 

But the Thai better buy or grow this sugarbeet because it doesn't pollute the atmosphere if grown this way. I'm no expert but to me it seems that sugarbeet is a much better option to get sugar.

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fruitman Silver Member

fruitman

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, Muhendis said:

It would be better if the government controlled the rental price of the harvester than to buy a load of machines at 10 million Baht each.

It would be better if the government just put huge fines on burning fields and let them find the solution themselves. Why the taxpayers have to pay for it?  The Thai eat far too much sugar anyway which is very unhealthy. 

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bluesofa Ruby Member

bluesofa

Posted
Posted
Just now, fruitman said:

It would be better if the government just put huge fines on burning fields and let them find the solution themselves. Why the taxpayers have to pay for it?  The Thai eat far too much sugar anyway which is very unhealthy. 

I'd agree about the amount of sugar consumed in the diet here. Last year I read a report by a Thai doctor, highlighting the rapid increase of diabetes in the Thai population.

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Dumbastheycome Gold Member

Dumbastheycome

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, LennyW said:

This is whats needed, with a built in chopper it breaks all the waste down and spreads it across the land.

 

Yep. These  chundering  things are about already. Or similar. There is  one parked  just across the road   from my house. Is mounted on a large  tractor  base, not tracks like this one. 

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sometimewoodworker Ruby Member

sometimewoodworker

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, fruitman said:

It would be better if the government just put huge fines on burning fields and let them find the solution themselves. Why the taxpayers have to pay for it?  The Thai eat far too much sugar anyway which is very unhealthy. 

A large % is used to convert to the fuel additive

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fruitman Silver Member

fruitman

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Yep. These  chundering  things are about already. Or similar. There is  one parked  just across the road   from my house. Is mounted on a large  tractor  base, not tracks like this one. 

Well then Prayuth only has to force the farmers to use that harvester across your road.

 

Why does the whole country have to choke from pollution if they have those machines here already?

 

They can also stop with the importtax on agriculture machinery but better on all machinery and tools because the Thai can't produce them.

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thaiguzzi Gold Member

thaiguzzi

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, fruitman said:

As if i don't know that.

 

But the Thai better buy or grow this sugarbeet because it doesn't pollute the atmosphere if grown this way. I'm no expert but to me it seems that sugarbeet is a much better option to get sugar.

But you don't.

Know that.

And you are correct - you are not an expert.

Neither am i, but i do know beet can't grow here, and i also know cane is a higher quality product..

Thailand has the wrong climate for beet.

Northern Europe (& the UK) has the wrong climate for cane.

50% of the worlds total beet is grown in N. Europe.

20% of the world's sugar is beet, hence 80% is cane.

Cane sugar is less refined and hence a purer, cleaner sugar.

In fact brown sugar cannot be made from beet without adding molasses.

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Dumbastheycome Gold Member

Dumbastheycome

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, fruitman said:

Well then Prayuth only has to force the farmers to use that harvester across your road.

 

Why does the whole country have to choke from pollution if they have those machines here already?

 

They can also stop with the importtax on agriculture machinery but better on all machinery and tools because the Thai can't produce them.

Agriculture machinery is already  import tax exempt. I wanted to import a flail mower but could not  find an import agent willing to help. They only wanted to import and on sell at twice the price. Gave up the idea.

But there  is no need to "force" the use of  machines.

There is a need to enforce the existing law  against burning. If more  farmers were  fined  for doing so it would  stop it  fast! The  financial loss  would over ride the selfish attitude  to  convenience. There have been a  few instances of  farmers  being fined  but probably only selectively.

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thaiguzzi Gold Member

thaiguzzi

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, fruitman said:

but better on all machinery and tools because the Thai can't produce them.

Utter tosh!

Just give it a rest will ya!

8 minutes ago, fruitman said:

They can also stop with the importtax on agriculture machinery

I believe there is ZERO import tax (or not more than 10%) on USED agricultural machinery.

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robblok Star Member

robblok

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, fruitman said:

You're like my grandma, makes a lot of noise but never says something usefull...

In this topic he is the guy who is putting down useful information, you are acting like a child with childlike arguments. 


Sorry that is how it is.

 

I support your views that the burning should stop, but your solutions and remarks are foolish.

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bluesofa Ruby Member

bluesofa

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, robblok said:
5 minutes ago, fruitman said:

You're like my grandma, makes a lot of noise but never says something usefull...

In this topic he is the guy who is putting down useful information, you are acting like a child with childlike arguments. 

Sorry that is how it is.

I support your views that the burning should stop, but your solutions and remarks are foolish.

Could be inherited from his grandma?

 

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ronrat Senior Member

ronrat

Posted
Posted

One of the reasons for burning the cane was kill all the cane toads and snakes in the crop. In Queensland anyway. Cane mulch is used for gardens to reduce water evaporation.

 

In Queensland they announce cane burning times by area so you can watch them, take your clothes off the line, and shut your windows and you may wish to avoid driving at those times.

 

 

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VocalNeal Star Member

VocalNeal

Posted
Posted

Surely harvesters need nice flat fields to operate on. In Thailand evens most lawns are not flat. can a harvester work on the side of hills.

 

As I'm sure has been said it is just another money grab by someone. But no one should complain about that becuase it is all the whinging about smoke that gave them the ammunition for such a scheme.

 

 

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fruitman Silver Member

fruitman

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Kasset Tak said:

It's a sweet smell in the air here at work, they have been harvesting (with harvester) around 2000 rai of sugarcane the last couple of weeks around here so it's really a sweet smell in the air!

Can also be from spraying molasses with drones against the pollution of the burning fields.

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Moonlover Ruby Member

Moonlover

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, monkfish said:
6 hours ago, bluesofa said:

I'm probably asking something too obvious here, but how does burning the cane enable harvesting?

 

5 hours ago, monkfish said:

The outer shell and leaves are very tough difficult to remove by hand, burning them off is the fastest and cheapest method used for hundreds of years

And not just in Thailand either.

 

https://earthjustice.org/blog/2015-december/sugar-cane-burning-not-so-sweet-for-florida-s-residents

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