poobaisle Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 On 2/19/2019 at 12:48 PM, CangguSurfer said: Wrong to make such assumptions. My business is incorporated in the USA. I am fully complaint with Thai regulations. Hello, Thai authorities don't really care where your business is incorporated. From the moment you start working from Thailand you need a working permit. I fully disagree with that but that's how it works in Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poobaisle Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 On 2/19/2019 at 2:13 PM, WaveHunter said: Drop shipping business model does not work well on AMZ. Most sellers on Amazon (or Lazada) opt for private-label (i.e.: purchasing products overseas like from China and branding with their own seller-logo. FBA simply means fulfillment by Amazon. Under this model, AMZ provides warehousing for the inventory, and complete fulfillment once a sale is made (all for a fee of course). LAZADA has a similar seller model referred to as FBL). As to the legality of a Farang conducting an FBA business while living in Thailand, many "digital nomads" (including myself) make their living doing this without the need for a work permit, and do it quite openly. There is nothing illegal or dodgy about it, and it does not violate any Thai Immigration regulations if you do it properly. I consulted with a Thai attorney about this so I am real comfortable in saying this. Many digital nomads are quite open about it here in Chiang Mai, posting on YouTube and social media, and I know of no one who has had any run-ins with Thai Immigration over their enterprises irregardless of what type of visa they hold. I am not really interested in networking with anyone on this; my business is doing just fine thank you, but I thought I'd provide this feedback for anyone interested in this topic. Just to add, I'm happy to answer questions or provide feedback but I do NOT want to get into any silly debates over the legalities of conducting this kind of business here in the Kingdom. As the moderator advised, keep it on-topic. Maybe you should consult another attorney... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poobaisle Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 On 2/19/2019 at 2:08 PM, FritsSikkink said: Because I am getting a proper visa, work permit and DO pay tax and don't like it that there are people who don't give a <deleted> about the rules and ask for advise on their illegal activities. Another thing one needs to remember, is that US citizens in Thailand do not have the same constraints than other expats. Maybe that explains why some get easily <deleted> off on this specific topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassosa Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 On 2/23/2019 at 1:00 PM, WaveHunter said: Why? Judging from one of the comments I saw on this thread, I would say it's simply jealous rage LOL! They just can not stand to see others succeed where they can not. E-commerce is a wonderful business model tailor-made for those of us seeking the freedom to travel the world and have a truly independent lifestyle. There are always going to be people who tell you why you CAN'T do something. Successful people are more interested in finding ways you CAN do something. I LOVE e-commerce! It's not just about the money either. If you have the passion, there are no obstacles that are barriers, only challenges that you find solutions for. There will always be haters and jealous people. That's OK. I don't mind their self righteous comments and pontificating tone if it makes them feel better about themselves. "To thine own self be true". It would be a good thing to hear from some of us who embrace the positive aspects of e-commerce. This thread seems to be languishing. Exactly. The hate towards digital nomads is pure envy from older men who've missed the boat and are dealing with dwindling reserves. To them I say: it's not too late. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poobaisle Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 On 2/21/2019 at 2:36 PM, WaveHunter said: You can not set up a Lazada seller account and take advantage of fulfillment by Lazada as an individual. You need a corporate account. I don't understand what's the point of using FBL if you are dropshipping on LAZADA... Your dropshipper whether it is Aliexpress or any other will do the fullfillment instead of LAZADA. However, if you have a corporate account, you need to pay back collected VAT from the 1st baht you earn. Just eating up 7% on your profit margin. As an individual, you don't have to worry about VAT as long as your total income is below 1.8 millions THB. About the legality of working with or without a WP, unfortunately Thai authorities just consider where you, as a person and not as a corporation, are physically located. Everybody living for some time in Thailand knows that and if you found an attorney telling you that he can set up the perfect mecano to avoid that, trust me he is wrong and he knows it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaveHunter Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, poobaisle said: I don't understand what's the point of using FBL if you are dropshipping on LAZADA... Your dropshipper whether it is Aliexpress or any other will do the fullfillment instead of LAZADA. However, if you have a corporate account, you need to pay back collected VAT from the 1st baht you earn. Just eating up 7% on your profit margin. As an individual, you don't have to worry about VAT as long as your total income is below 1.8 millions THB. About the legality of working with or without a WP, unfortunately Thai authorities just consider where you, as a person and not as a corporation, are physically located. Everybody living for some time in Thailand knows that and if you found an attorney telling you that he can set up the perfect mecano to avoid that, trust me he is wrong and he knows it. I am not a drop shipper and never claimed to be; it is not a viable marketing model IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven100 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Lazada = no Quality control Lazada doesn't screen it's vendors, as such you end up with fake items, non-existant items, non stocked items, all advertised by scamming vendors on the Lazada website .... the reason I will never use Lazada ever again ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poobaisle Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 5 minutes ago, WaveHunter said: I am not a drop shipper and never claimed to be; it is not a viable marketing model IMO. Ok. Thank you to clarify this point. What about the VAT ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaveHunter Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, poobaisle said: Hello, Thai authorities don't really care where your business is incorporated. From the moment you start working from Thailand you need a working permit. I fully disagree with that but that's how it works in Thailand. You are quite incorrect. Everything I do here in the Kingdom is ethical and legal. The term "work" is a very vague one. You need to specifically understand Thai Immigration's interpretation of the word "work". They are actually quite precise in how they interpret it. That's why I was very careful to consult with a good Thai attorney. I think I explained the specific details earlier in this thread but frankly I don't remember the specific wording from Thai Immigration...so check back through the thread to see. According to the Thai Immigration definition of the word "work" I am not violating any regulations of my visa. In other words, technically speaking, I am not working in Thailand nor do I conduct any business within the Kingdom in which I am not selling directly by Thai citizens, nor am I taking business away from them either. I maintain no physical facilities for selling or warehousing goods here. I am not currently selling on Lazada but if I were, there would be nothing that violates terms of my visa simply because I am not conducting any business within the Kingdom. Payment for purchases would go direcxtly to Lazada in SIngapore not to me in Thailand. Lazada would then transfer revenues to my US based corporation. The shipper of record when you sell on Lazada is Lazada in SIngapore since they act as the warehouse location under FBL. So, really, no work or business is conducted within the borders of the Kingdom. The only "work" I do in Thailand is manage my US-based business accounts via laptop, just the same as a retiree might manage his/her stock portfolio or other investments. My only income from online selling is as a shareholder in my US-based corporation (i.e.: no salary). I'm just giving you the broad strokes of how this works and probably not explaining it perfectly but if you consult a good Thai attorney, they will explain it in a way that makes it very clear that there is nothing unfair, unethical,illegal or immoral about this. Edited January 30, 2020 by WaveHunter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poobaisle Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, WaveHunter said: You are quite incorrect. The term "work" is a very vague one. You need to understand specific Thai Immigration's interpretation of the word. That's why I was very careful to consult with a good Thai attorney. According to the Thai Immigration definition of the word "work" I am not violating any regulations of my visa. In other words, I am not working in Thailand. I do not conduct any business within the Kingdom. I am not currently selling on Lazada but if I were, there would be nothing that violates terms of my visa simply because I am not conducting any business within the Kingdom. The shipper of record when you sell on Lazada is Lazada in SIngapore since they act as the warehouse location under FBL. The only "work" I do in Thailand is manage my US-based business accounts via laptop, just the same as a retiree might manage his/her stock portfolio or other investments. My only income is as a shareholder in my US-based corporation (i.e.: no salary). There is NOTHING illegal, underhanded, or immoral in what I do. Since this forum is about sharing knowledge maybe you could provide us with the name of your attorney then ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaveHunter Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, poobaisle said: Since this forum is about sharing knowledge maybe you could provide us with the name of your attorney then ? Frankly I don't remember since it was back in 2017 and just a one-time consultation but any good Thai attorney can explain it over the phone in a few minutes since it's a very clear cut question they get asked often by Farangs. Again, look back earlier in this thread for more specific details that I can't recall off the top of my head right now. BTW, if you are thinking of actually selling on Lazada, think hard. I decided it just was not worth the effort...of course, that's just me ???? Edited January 30, 2020 by WaveHunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poobaisle Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, WaveHunter said: Frankly I don't remember since it was back in 2017 and just a one-time consultation but any good Thai attorney can explain it over the phone in a few minutes since it's a very clear cut question they get asked often by Farangs. Again, look back earlier in this thread for more specific details that I can't recall off the top of my head right now. Now I understand. Since 2017, Thai authorities have drastically tightened their regulations precisely to make the concept of "work or working" very clear. Unfair but very clear! As soon as you spend time in Thailand on an activity generating revenue (wherever it is, inside or outside of Thailand, whether you are shareholder or manager) you are considered as a worker and you need a WP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poobaisle Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 minute ago, poobaisle said: Now I understand. Since 2017, Thai authorities have drastically tightened their regulations precisely to make the concept of "work or working" very clear. Unfair but very clear! As soon as you spend time in Thailand on an activity generating revenue (wherever it is, inside or outside of Thailand, whether you are shareholder or manager) you are considered as a worker and you need a WP. Also, keep in mind that you have the law and the spirit of the law. The spirit of the law is that Thai authorities want foreigners living in Thailand and doing business online to get a work permit. Whether your business is fair, ethical or moral doesn't matter in a local court of justice. You are a foreigner and you'd work in Thailand without WP which is against the spirit of the law they just put in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poobaisle Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 26 minutes ago, WaveHunter said: BTW, if you are thinking of actually selling on Lazada, think hard. I decided it just was not worth the effort...of course, that's just me ???? Just a question of following the trend in this part of the world and diversification. Also, dropshipping doesn't need much investment to put an option just in case ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaveHunter Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 5 minutes ago, poobaisle said: Just a question of following the trend in this part of the world and diversification. Also, dropshipping doesn't need much investment to put an option just in case ???? Dropshipping is really an unworkable model today. It was moderately workable until the world really got digitally connected and until AliExpress became a popular international platform but now (IMO) it's just a waste of time and only touted by YouTube Guru types as a get rich scheme. Just my opinion of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poobaisle Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Is there anyone to tell me what's the difference between individual and corporate account on LAZADA please ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poobaisle Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, WaveHunter said: Dropshipping is really an unworkable model today. It was moderately workable until the world really got digitally connected and until AliExpress became a popular international platform but now (IMO) it's just a waste of time and only touted by YouTube Guru types as a get rich scheme. Just my opinion of course. I never claimed dropshipping from AliExpress either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaveHunter Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 30 minutes ago, poobaisle said: Now I understand. Since 2017, Thai authorities have drastically tightened their regulations precisely to make the concept of "work or working" very clear. Unfair but very clear! As soon as you spend time in Thailand on an activity generating revenue (wherever it is, inside or outside of Thailand, whether you are shareholder or manager) you are considered as a worker and you need a WP. 23 minutes ago, poobaisle said: Also, keep in mind that you have the law and the spirit of the law. The spirit of the law is that Thai authorities want foreigners living in Thailand and doing business online to get a work permit. Whether your business is fair, ethical or moral doesn't matter in a local court of justice. You are a foreigner and you'd work in Thailand without WP which is against the spirit of the law they just put in place. Well, I think you are wrong, though I am not about to debate it with an Immigration officer LOL! Like most things in the magic kingdom, there is the written law and the practiced law, and the two rarely coincide. I have been living here for 3 years and never encountered any problems, and I know plenty of other Farangs who work in a similar fashion and they also have no issues. I look at it all in a very pragmatic way; I am hurting no Thai citizens by my actions and I contribute a fair share of money to the economy by living here. If Thai officials suddenly got on my case about this, I'd just go somewhere else like Vietnam or Bali where Expats are treated and respected more properly than they are in Thailand lately. Fact is, I'm getting pretty fed up with a lot of things here in the Kingdom in those regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaveHunter Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, poobaisle said: Is there anyone to tell me what's the difference between individual and corporate account on LAZADA please ? The main difference is that a corporate account allows you to do FBL (fulfillment by Lazada). You can not set up an FBL account as an individual. FBL means that Lazada maintains your inventory and ships for you. More importantly, it means that, in legal terms, you are conducting no business within the Kingdom since your inventory is located in SIngapore, and Lazada (not you) is shipping it and collecting revenues for it from buyers. Edited January 30, 2020 by WaveHunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poobaisle Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, WaveHunter said: I look at it all in a very pragmatic way; I am hurting no Thai citizens by my actions and I contribute a fair share of money to the economy by living here. If Thai officials suddenly got on my case about this, I'd just go somewhere else like Vietnam or Bali where Expats are treated and respected more properly than they are in Thailand lately. Fact is, I'm getting pretty fed up with a lot of things here in the Kingdom in those regards. Many of the members on this forum are expats having their life and family here. They have good attorneys too and be sure that they are also very pragmatics. They just don't want to mess up with local authorities because they don't have the possibility to move to Vietnam or Philippines in case Thai officials get on their case. They can get banned from Thailand from 1 to 10 years. Believe me they know what they are talking about and they know people and friends who had to leave because they didn't comply with the law. The question is not if they are harming Thai citizens by their actions or if they contribute a fair share of money to the economy by living here. That are western thoughts... irrelevant here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poobaisle Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 12 minutes ago, WaveHunter said: The main difference is that a corporate account allows you to do FBL (fulfillment by Lazada). You can not set up an FBL account as an individual. FBL means that Lazada maintains your inventory and ships for you. More importantly, it means that, in legal terms, you are conducting no business within the Kingdom since your inventory is located in SIngapore, and Lazada (not you) is shipping it and collecting revenues for it from buyers. On Thai Lazada website, the 1st checklist point to be a Local Seller is "You are based locally". What does it mean according to you ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poobaisle Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 10 minutes ago, poobaisle said: On Thai Lazada website, the 1st checklist point to be a Local Seller is "You are based locally". What does it mean according to you ? In Thailand, Lazada Ltd., is engaging E-Commerce business incorporated pursuant to the laws of Thailand under registration number 0105555040244 and having its registered address Unit 2901, 29th floor, Bhiraj Tower, 689 Sukhumvit Road, North Klongton Subdistrict, Vadhana District, Bangkok 10110 Thailand. They have warehouses in Thailand and they also maintain inventory from here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaveHunter Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) 51 minutes ago, poobaisle said: Many of the members on this forum are expats having their life and family here. They have good attorneys too and be sure that they are also very pragmatics. They just don't want to mess up with local authorities because they don't have the possibility to move to Vietnam or Philippines in case Thai officials get on their case. They can get banned from Thailand from 1 to 10 years. Believe me they know what they are talking about and they know people and friends who had to leave because they didn't comply with the law. The question is not if they are harming Thai citizens by their actions or if they contribute a fair share of money to the economy by living here. That are western thoughts... irrelevant here. Actually, when I was looking into this, I read an interview with one of the head immigration officials in Bangkok on the subject of expats who work online and his primary definition of "work" was whether or not it was at the expense of a Thai citizen. In other words, if an expat's work in some way deprived a Thai national of a job or income. Of course I agree that for some expats who have a lot on the line should Imm come down on them, more prudence would be a good thing. As for myself, I've had my fun here in the magic kingdom and am planning to move back tot he States within the year anyway. Maybe sooner if Thai officials make life even more difficult than they already are for expats. I mean, Thailand is a completely different place than it was when I first came here...and I don't mean that in a good way. Edited January 30, 2020 by WaveHunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamesgplayemail Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 At least a good reason to have a Thai wife... doing business using her name and ID card <3 The system is stupid ? Cheat it as much as you can ! They will never catch you if you are smart <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poobaisle Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 On 2/1/2020 at 5:41 AM, gamesgplayemail said: At least a good reason to have a Thai wife... doing business using her name and ID card ❤️ The system is stupid ? Cheat it as much as you can ! They will never catch you if you are smart ❤️ Yes, however with or without Thai wife dropshipping with Lazada is not worthy. As Lazada keeps the control of shipment it kills the concept of dropshipping. Cost will be higher and delivery time will be longer for dropshippers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaveHunter Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 On 1/30/2020 at 10:04 AM, poobaisle said: Hi there, I'm a bit surprised by your answer... In the eyes of Thai regulations, whoever living in Thailand and engaging into any kind of activity from the Thai territory needs to secure a working permit. That apply even if you initiate trade business with countries out of Thailand. That's harsh but these are Thai regulations. It is as simple as that! Wrong. You need to consider how Thai officials specifically define the term "work". If the merchant's business is based outside of the Kingdom, the merchant's customers are paying Lazada for goods purchased (not the merchant), and the merchant is merely coordinating his/her foreign based business over their laptop while here in Thailand, that does not constitute "work" that would require a work permit. I, and others have already posted detailed explanations of this on this thread. I suggest you read this thread more carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dart12 Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 On 2/20/2019 at 6:43 PM, Khaeng Mak said: A friend of mine is selling motor bike plastics on Lazada and Shopee. In an average week he gets three times more sales from Shopee. He also sells "mini" bundles on facebook. That is he buys a big bundle of clothes or shoes and then breaks it down into 10 or more mini bundles. His last one was a shoe bundle with 144 pairs. He broke it down into 12 mini bundles of 12 pairs. Sold the lot in 3 days. What's the typical shipping cost on that? Is he selling in Thailand or US? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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