How is the TM-30 housemaster reporting requirement affecting you?

[Gecko123]

I currently have a receipt showing that the housemaster has reported my residence where I live, so for the time being I am reasonably confident that I am in compliance with the TM-30 regulation. The problem is that even though I am in compliance, I feel like the re-reporting requirements are so onerous that my freedom of travel has been effectively taken away from me.

 

Yesterday, immigration confirmed that if I leave the country, the housemaster has 24 hours upon my return to report to immigration that I still live in the same place I did before I left the country. This despite the fact that I have been reporting this same address to immigration every 90 days for the past 15 years, and the local police are fully aware of where I live.  When I asked immigration if it was really necessary for people who may have been in transit up to 48 hours and suffering from lack of sleep and jet-lag to make this report within 24 hours upon arrival, I was blithely told I should just swing by immigration from Suwannaphumi on my way home. Never mind that I usually take the bus to the airport, typically haven't slept in two days, the housemaster might not be with me, a side trip from the airport to immigration was 120 km out of the way, and never mind the housemaster might have a full time job, live in another province, only own a motorcycle, be in poor health, be unable to drive, etc., etc.

 

I was also told that if I stayed overnight in a different province other than the one I reside in, the housemaster needs to report my return home to immigration within 24 hours. Yesterday, I checked with the local police station (13 km away) to ask whether in the future I could do the TM-30 report at the local police station. The local police in turn called immigration, who said, no, the housemaster would have to go to immigration. I live 95 kilometers (one-way) away from my immigration office, effectively an all-day trip, and certainly not something I want to do the same day or first thing the next morning after returning from a trip home. Even though this is technically the responsibility of the housemaster, obviously the foreigner has to get involved, most likely assist the Thai national housemaster in completing the form, and quite possibly assist in transporting the housemaster to and from immigration. It is my understanding that while the housemaster can be fined for not complying with these regulations, it is the foreigner - who is also subject to fines and having their visa renewal application rejected - who has the most at risk for non-compliance.

 

All this bureaucracy is making me totally fearful of taking any trips, whether out of the country or overnight to another province, and making me feel like a convicted sex offender on parole or under house arrest. I looked up on the internet to see what change of address requirements a registered sex offender in America might be subjected to. While the regulations vary state-by-state, the Federal standard appears to be a three day reporting window. So Thailand is monitoring my whereabouts more closely than America monitors the residence of a registered sex offender. What does that tell you?

 

In addition, Thailand has a similar law that requires the housemaster to report changes of residency for Thai nationals, which goes entirely unenforced. Thais are often left listed on their parent's or former spouse's house registry for decades after they have left home. So Thailand is hyper-vigilant about the whereabouts of foreigners living here while taking a totally lackadasical attitude about where Thais actually reside. How does that make sense from the standpoint of law enforcement?

 

All this really sticks in my craw. I really do feel like I am being treated like a criminal which is something I never thought I would feel here. I don't expect special treatment from immigration, but I do expect to be treated fairly and with dignity. I can't tell if this is being done with malice and forethought, but it sure feels like it. Am I the only one who feels this way?

Edited February 19, 2019 by Gecko123

[attrayant]

22 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

I currently have a receipt showing that the housemaster has reported my residence where I live, so for the time being I am reasonably confident that I am in compliance with the TM-30 regulation.

 

Isn't the onus entirely on the head of household to do the reporting?  If they fail to do it, it's on them.  I don't even know if my Father in law has done this.

[Joe Mcseismic]

Seems some provinces don't enforce this and some do. Unfortunately, my home province immigration enforce it rigorously.

As I have leased my land and house, I usually fill out a TM28 rather than the TM30. This has been accepted every time.

Personally, I'd rather do this than have to wear the bracelet that was mooted by immigration awhile back.

Edited February 19, 2019 by Joe Mcseismic

[bkk6060]

Boy, sounds like a pain.

I live in Pattaya and for several years travel all the time in and out of the country and within.

Never done anything and never been asked anything by TI when I go there for business.

[Gweiloman]

Yes, it seems like TI consider every expat a sex offender/criminal unless proven otherwise. The otherwise part is the problem - you can’t prove that you aren’t something you’re not (did I get that right? Lol)


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[ChouDoufu]

1.  other threads on this indicate that under the law, a renter is effectively the house-master, so you "can" self-report.

 

2.  still other threads explain the process for reporting by mail.  send in day after return, get receipt via self-addressed envelope.

 

 

[Felt 35]

1 hour ago, Gecko123 said:

Am I the only one who feels this way?

No you are not alone and if it goes further now then it will make me leave long before new visa extension rules stop me from living here.

[lamyai3]

1 hour ago, Gecko123 said:

All this really sticks in my craw. I really do feel like I am being treated like a criminal which is something I never thought I would feel here. I don't expect special treatment from immigration, but I do expect to be treated fairly and with dignity. I can't tell if this is being done with malice and forethought, but it sure feels like it. Am I the only one who feels this way?

Not at all - this requirement makes 90 day reports look like a cakewalk. Fortunately doesn't seem to be enforced in Bangkok so far (I'd never even heard of it until recently) but if it was I'm not sure what I'd do. I've had some months here where I've made as many as four weekend trips out of town, as well as often half a dozen overseas trips during the year, if I had to do these reports it would quickly drive me nuts. 

[Sheryl]

In some provinces you do not need to re-file TM30 for overnight trips within the country, only after leaving the country. And a few provinces don't require it at all though that seems to be changing. My province (Prachinburi) didn't use to either...and then suddenly they did.

 

Even when it is only required after leaving the country it can indeed be quite  hassle.

 

I am the "housemaster" and have to file TM-3os both for myself and for my Cambodian household staff, who go back and forth a lot as their home is near the border. I would estimate that I file about 10-15 TM30s a year, each one accompanied by a massive stack of photocopies.

 

The only "plus" is that it has made me quite well known to my local Imm office. I'm there what feels like constantly.

 

You do not really have to report within 24 hours. 1st working day after day you arrived is fine. After all, arrival may often be on a non-working day or after working hours.  Maybe aim for arrivals on Fridays or Saturdays if you want to give yourself time to rest up.

 

[kingstonkid]

FIRST JOE WHERE ARE YOU???

 

I have lived here for 9 years and the only change that I report is when I move to a new residence.

 

I also like most here travel although not out of the country on a regular basis and stay in hotels and such.  I also traveled outside the country to check out the land of OZZ sorry not my brand of beer too expensive.

 

Anyway, I have never ever made a report or had the owner do a report for any of my trips.  Why should I still reside at that location as my permanent location and base?  The hotels that I stay in report that I am there.  

Now I live in Pathum Thani and immigration here have brains that they use.  That may be the difference.

 

My question is why are you telling the owner that you are going away.  If he or she does not know that you have left the house they have no need to report it.

 

If you do not pay rent for the time that you are away then I can understand but really are we starting to micromanage our fears and get paranoid.

 

 

 

[Pungdo]

I went home to Oz for Xmas and while at Jomtien Immigration getting my re-entry permit I asked if I would need to lodge a new TM30 on my return (or at least my wife) I was told that because I am here on a Retirement Extension I did not need to, but I guess I might find out the hard way when I do my renewal next month.

Edited February 19, 2019 by Pungdo

[legend49]

3 hours ago, ChouDoufu said:

1.  other threads on this indicate that under the law, a renter is effectively the house-master, so you "can" self-report.

 

2.  still other threads explain the process for reporting by mail.  send in day after return, get receipt via self-addressed envelope.

 

 

I always do number 1 above as I find the real housemaster refuses to follow their regulations. Guess who had to pay the 1600 baht fine?

[bbi1]

"How is the TM-30 housemaster reporting requirement affecting you?"

It's affecting me by having to waste my time to go to Jomtien Immigration to do a TM30 telling them I'm staying at the same address after flying back into the country. Wastes a few hours of my time to go there and wait around. Before in BKK I never had to do this.

[Joe Mcseismic]

Phuket immigration is very strict on this re-registering of address, but, they have made it so much easier.

Go to the drive through with only your passport, no TM30, or TM28 necessary, though, must have the address registry slip that is stapled into your passport. Takes about three minutes. Though, if you address has changed, then you need to go into the office with a new TM form.

Without a current registration of address, they will not process a retirement extension until it has been done. 

[Gecko123]

54 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

FIRST JOE WHERE ARE YOU???

 

I have lived here for 9 years and the only change that I report is when I move to a new residence.

 

I also like most here travel although not out of the country on a regular basis and stay in hotels and such.  I also traveled outside the country to check out the land of OZZ sorry not my brand of beer too expensive.

 

Anyway, I have never ever made a report or had the owner do a report for any of my trips.  Why should I still reside at that location as my permanent location and base?  The hotels that I stay in report that I am there.  

Now I live in Pathum Thani and immigration here have brains that they use.  That may be the difference.

 

My question is why are you telling the owner that you are going away.  If he or she does not know that you have left the house they have no need to report it.

 

If you do not pay rent for the time that you are away then I can understand but really are we starting to micromanage our fears and get paranoid.

You aren't telling the owner that you are going away.  The owner is confirming that you still live there after you return.

 

How does immigration know that you have even gone anywhere in the first place? Travel outside the country, of course, shows up in your passport with exit and entry stamps and this activity is undoubtedly on immigration's computers as well.

 

Travel within the country can trigger a report to immigration as well. For example, a stay in a hotel will commonly trigger a report to immigration. If the "housemaster" doesn't re-report that you are still staying at your residence after you return home, they might be fined, and you might be fined or have problems with your visa as well.

Edited February 19, 2019 by Gecko123

[farangx]

it is stupid, so I stopped doing TM30 for friends and family members that stay in my apartment which I don't live in.

 

[sandrabbit]

My wife phoned Rayong immigration after I returned from a trip abroad and they told her that she didn't need to make a report. She has a small resort business so she has an account with immigration and does the reports online.

[cnx355]

3 hours ago, Felt 35 said:

No you are not alone and if it goes further now then it will make me leave long before new visa extension rules stop me from living here.

I wish one day they have an IT system that can make the TM30 reporting easy for everybody.

[Felt 35]

25 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Phuket immigration is very strict on this re-registering of address, but, they have made it so much easier.

Go to the drive through with only your passport, no TM30, or TM28 necessary, though, must have the address registry slip that is stapled into your passport. Takes about three minutes. Though, if you address has changed, then you need to go into the office with a new TM form.

Without a current registration of address, they will not process a retirement extension until it has been done. 

I don't understand. New rules? Why should you go re-register your address if you not have been abroad or on another address, hotel etc., in Thailand? Is it come a timeframe on how long you can live on your address before you have to report it again?

[ChouDoufu]

39 minutes ago, legend49 said:

I always do number 1 above as I find the real housemaster refuses to follow their regulations. Guess who had to pay the 1600 baht fine?

never had to do this at CW before, but recent reports show random retirement extension applicants are being asked, must get the form and pay the fine before proceeding.

 

out of the kingdom at present, planning to have a packet (then will keep a dozen or so ready for the future if needed) to mail in upon return.  will take photos of the letter and keep the receipt.

 

plan to return on a weekend, will see if the local police will let me report as immigration will be closed.

[OJAS]

5 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

Yesterday, immigration confirmed that if I leave the country, the housemaster has 24 hours upon my return to report to immigration that I still live in the same place I did before I left the country.

Which particular office are you referring to, please?

[ChouDoufu]

4 minutes ago, Felt 35 said:

I don't understand. New rules? Why should you go re-register your address if you not have been abroad or on another address, hotel etc., in Thailand? Is it come a timeframe on how long you can live on your address before you have to report it again?

new rules, old rules, no rules.....what does it matter?  every office senior official interprets the poorly-worded rules differently, and every underling interprets the seniors instructions according to the consistency of his/her latest BM.

 

immigration law is nothing more than modern-day haruspication!

[OJAS]

22 minutes ago, sandrabbit said:

My wife phoned Rayong immigration after I returned from a trip abroad and they told her that she didn't need to make a report.

Reflects my experience with that particular office as well. I've applied for my last few retirement extensions there a month or so after a foreign trip on each occasion, and nothing has ever been said to me or my wife (as housemaster) about the need for a fresh TM30.

Edited February 19, 2019 by OJAS

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, ChouDoufu said:

new rules, old rules, no rules.....what does it matter?  every office senior official interprets the poorly-worded rules differently, and every underling interprets the seniors instructions according to the consistency of his/her latest BM.

The current spending money in his wallet may have some impact on today's efforts too!

[Dogbarker]

37 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

You aren't telling the owner that you are going away.  The owner is confirming that you still live there after you return.

 

How does immigration know that you have even gone anywhere in the first place? Travel outside the country, of course, shows up in your passport with exit and entry stamps and this activity is undoubtedly on immigration's computers as well.

 

Travel within the country can trigger a report to immigration as well. For example, a stay in a hotel will commonly trigger a report to immigration. If the "housemaster" doesn't re-report that you are still staying at your residence after you return home, they might be fined, and you might be fined or have problems with your visa as well.

It is possible  to produce a proxy form so you can do the TM30 on behalf of the housemaster.. Here is the link https://phomes-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Power-of-Attorney-Form.pd ( stolen from Perfect Homes site .. Thanks Simon) who also explains procedure .. This is my other go - to site...

 

[rumak]

This simple subject has been raised from the dead so many times that i might start having nightmares.

Fact #1  :   different IO want different things

#2 Most IO   require the INITIAL  tm30 report to be done by the owner/ manager/ or someone with POA (power of attorney).   I do not know if they provide a form for the POA   One should ASK

#3   :  In CM and according to many posters elsewhere, after the INITIAL  tm30 receipt is in your hands, you only have to go and UPDATE  (YOU, not the owner)  within 24 hours if you have LEFT THE COUNTRY.  But again, most offices let you go within a few days upon re-entry.  This pertains to those returning to the same address !

#4 :   few offices require you to update if you have just travelled within the country.   I guess you have to ask your office.  Be sure you ask a higher official that knows,  and be sure you understand the answer. A lot of problems  occur by misinterpreting what they say  ( must do new tm30 usually means you have to go there to update).  

#5 :  copy this and keep           read when needed

 

To Gecko...... you did not say where you report but IF they are really requiring the "housemaster" to go after the initial report.... you got a really bad immig office.   Check about having a POA from the owner so you can do it yourself.  (will need their permission and whatever copies (like ID, housepaper of owner, housepaper of rental ).  By housepaper i mean copy of the blue book.  Get a few copies for future use, signed of course .

Edited February 19, 2019 by rumak

[Lacessit]

I don't worry about it. When I come into Thailand via Bangkok, I assume the hotel I stay at reports me. If they don't, not my problem. I fill out a TM30 form at my condo in Chiang Mai, and the nice lady behind the desk gives me the notification slip one or two days later to staple in my passport.

I travel regularly to other provinces. The hotels that I stay at presumably fill out a TM30. I have never re-lodged a TM30 at my condo after I get back.

I've been doing that for ten years now, and have never been contacted by Immigration.

[ubonjoe]

11 minutes ago, Dogbarker said:

It is possible  to produce a proxy form so you can do the TM30 on behalf of the housemaster.. Here is the link https://phomes-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Power-of-Attorney-Form.pd ( stolen from Perfect Homes site .. Thanks Simon) who also explains procedure .. This is my other go - to site...

 

Most offices do not require the power of attorney form to do the report yourself. As far as I know only the Phuket office requires it.

[Joe Mcseismic]

51 minutes ago, Felt 35 said:

I don't understand. New rules? Why should you go re-register your address if you not have been abroad or on another address, hotel etc., in Thailand? Is it come a timeframe on how long you can live on your address before you have to report it again?

You don't. Only if you have come back from another country, or stayed in a hotel in another province.

No where did I say new rules.

Edited February 19, 2019 by Joe Mcseismic

[Joe Mcseismic]

29 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Most offices do not require the power of attorney form to do the report yourself. As far as I know only the Phuket office requires it.

Just fill out the TM28 instead if reporting yourself.