Honda to shut UK car plant in 2022 with the loss of 3,500 jobs

[evadgib]

44 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

When I post a reference to what someone has said, I provide a link to the record/source of the statement.

 

I don’t post grabs from propaganda being distributed on Facebook or stuff ripped from websites established by the likes of Arron Banks.

 

I’ve never claimed I’m alone in posting comment that are ‘right’.

 

This thread alone has many factual and well informed posts from other TVF members, even on the odd occasion by Brexiteers.

 

That said, reposting nonsense from ‘Westmonster.com’ whatever were you thinking?!

That particular post was in support of an earlier reply and contained info I had seen on the news the previous day. By your reckoning the only thing I did wrong was to pluck it from the nearest source instead of searching for the appropriate interview despite also frequently posting links direct from HMG etc soon after they're published.

 

Rest assured anything thought to be other than factually correct is unlikely to make it onto the boards from this direction.

HTH

[Chomper Higgot]

14 minutes ago, evadgib said:

That particular post was in support of an earlier reply and contained info I had seen on the news the previous day. By your reckoning the only thing I did wrong was to pluck it from the nearest source instead of searching for the appropriate interview despite also frequently posting links direct from HMG etc soon after they're published.

 

Rest assured anything thought to be other than factually correct is unlikely to make it onto the boards from this direction.

HTH

Odd you’ve not provided a link to a reputable source.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Perhaps time to re-read this:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-45558424

Given the statements made by Ian Howell to the BBC on September 18 of last year it is utterly ludicrous to now claim Honda’s decision to shutdown production at Swindon is not related to Brexit.

[evadgib]

17 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Odd you’ve not provided a link to a reputable source.

Odd you couldn't find one yourself:

 

[brexiteer]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

Given the statements made by Ian Howell to the BBC on September 18 of last year it is utterly ludicrous to now claim Honda’s decision to shutdown production at Swindon is not related to Brexit.

 

 

You just don't want to believe it......... add it to your Project Fear.

 

 

Must be true, it's from the BBC:-

 

Honda has confirmed it will close its Swindon car plant in 2021, with the loss of about 3,500 jobs.

The Japanese company builds 160,000 Honda Civics a year in Swindon, its only car factory in the EU.

Honda said the move was due to global changes in the car industry and the need to launch electric vehicles, and it had nothing to do with Brexit.

[Kinnock]

7 hours ago, stevenl said:

From autocar ' Is Brexit uncertainty a factor? Almost certainly. '. A pity you left out that part of your balanced view. And to be exact, the article states 'But it’s not the only reason – or the key reason, in this case, so completely different from your statement 'there are more important issues'.

Please quote honestly.

Brexit could be a bigger factor than we know.  If it wasn't for the Brexit vote, would Honda have invested in petrol SUV or electric motor production in UK rather than pulling out?   Would Nissan have decided to build the new X-Trail in UK?

 

 

[brexiteer]

5 minutes ago, Kinnock said:

Brexit could be a bigger factor than we know.  If it wasn't for the Brexit vote, would Honda have invested in petrol SUV or electric motor production in UK rather than pulling out?   Would Nissan have decided to build the new X-Trail in UK?

 

 

 

 

If your aunty had balls, would she be your uncle........................ the questions are endless.

[keemapoot]

3 minutes ago, Kinnock said:

Brexit could be a bigger factor than we know.  If it wasn't for the Brexit vote, would Honda have invested in petrol SUV or electric motor production in UK rather than pulling out?   Would Nissan have decided to build the new X-Trail in UK?

 

 

Nissan's CEO was very specific and blunt about Brexit's negative impact:

 

Quote

Brexit’s potential victims have been harping about its risks for a while now. Fallen auto executive and former Nissan head Carlos Ghosn was blunt about the impact: “We are preparing for the worst, but I do not want to tell you how we are preparing because you will say I am trying to scare people,” he said at last year’s Paris Motor Show.

Brexiters in denial, in the face of industry pulling out.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-02-19/brexit-isn-t-the-only-headache-for-honda-carmakers-in-u-k

[AlexRich]

"It's nothing to do with Brexit"

 

 

I'd feel some sympathy for Swindon if it had voted to remain, but it never ... so they can all enjoy their "Brexit dividend". Swindon, like Linwood in the 1970's, will be a ghost town soon.

[AlexRich]

24 minutes ago, brexiteer said:

 

 

You just don't want to believe it......... add it to your Project Fear.

 

 

Must be true, it's from the BBC:-

 

Honda has confirmed it will close its Swindon car plant in 2021, with the loss of about 3,500 jobs.

The Japanese company builds 160,000 Honda Civics a year in Swindon, its only car factory in the EU.

Honda said the move was due to global changes in the car industry and the need to launch electric vehicles, and it had nothing to do with Brexit.

 

What we are seeing is typical Japanese face-saving ... not wanting to be critical of the Government that has let them down. The Japanese are very loyal, but when you make it clear that your loyalty to them is no longer there, they feel no obligation to continue running a factory in the UK. Toyota in Derby will be the next on the list. And if we have a "no deal" Brexit it will be Nissan in Sunderland soon after.

 

The Brexit chickens are coming home to roost.

 

 

 

[sanemax]

57 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

What we are seeing is typical Japanese face-saving ... not wanting to be critical of the Government that has let them down. The Japanese are very loyal, but when you make it clear that your loyalty to them is no longer there, they feel no obligation to continue running a factory in the UK. Toyota in Derby will be the next on the list. And if we have a "no deal" Brexit it will be Nissan in Sunderland soon after.

 

The Brexit chickens are coming home to roost.

This is getting ridiculous , posters are ignoring all the facts and the reality and making their own things up .

   Twisting the facts around to suit their own beliefs .

Posters are disregarding what Honda stated , suggesting that Honda were being dishonest and giving the "real" reason , which coincidentally supports their political beliefs . 

[AlexRich]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

This is getting ridiculous , posters are ignoring all the facts and the reality and making their own things up .

   Twisting the facts around to suit their own beliefs .

Posters are disregarding what Honda stated , suggesting that Honda were being dishonest and giving the "real" reason , which coincidentally supports their political beliefs . 

 

The Japanese are the ultimate diplomats, of course they will say that it's not Brexit, why upset a Government that you will have to work with for the next couple of years? Brexit means just in time supply chains are disrupted and these factories become inefficient and no longer viable. 

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, AlexRich said:

 

The Japanese are the ultimate diplomats, of course they will say that it's not Brexit, why upset a Government that you will have to work with for the next couple of years? Brexit means just in time supply chains are disrupted and these factories become inefficient and no longer viable. 

Are you being serious ?

You are talking about Governments and business's , they dont get upset and cry about rejection .

   If anything , considering the UK Gov has given Toyota many cash incentives , its a slap in the face to the UK Gov that Toyota are relocating and it would have been a good excuse to blame Brexit , like *Sorry that we are leaving, but its because of Brexit , so its your own fault* , but no, they didnt even try to use that as an excuse . 

[simple1]

6 hours ago, sanemax said:

Are you being serious ?

You are talking about Governments and business's , they dont get upset and cry about rejection .

   If anything , considering the UK Gov has given Toyota many cash incentives , its a slap in the face to the UK Gov that Toyota are relocating and it would have been a good excuse to blame Brexit , like *Sorry that we are leaving, but its because of Brexit , so its your own fault* , but no, they didnt even try to use that as an excuse . 

If you were a decision maker at Honda what would you have done concerning the follies of Brexit decision making, in conjunction with a FTA with the EU. Brexit represents massive disruption to just in time supply chains replied upon in car manufacturing and other industries. Basically a no brainer for Honda to withdraw from the UK with the final nail in the coffin represented by Brexit.

[ukrules]

17 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

The Brexit has not been the only factor in the decision, but an important element in the decision-making chain.

Based on what I've heard it wasn't a factor at all.

 

Japan and the EU completed a free trade agreement so there's no need to make the cars in Europe any more.

 

All this means in reality is that nobody will buy Hondas in the UK any more.

[SheungWan]

7 minutes ago, ukrules said:

All this means in reality is that nobody will buy Hondas in the UK any more.

That's right. After Brexit we will be queuing up to buy the new Morris Ital 2.

[CG1 Blue]

14 minutes ago, simple1 said:

If you were a decision maker at Honda what would you have done concerning the follies of Brexit decision making, in conjunction with a FTA with the EU. Brexit represents massive disruption to just in time supply chains replied upon in car manufacturing and other industries. Basically a no brainer for Honda to withdraw from the UK with the final nail in the coffin represented by Brexit.

I've just stumbled upon this thread, and I'm amazed at the determination from remainers to pin anything they can on Brexit. It is plain for everyone to see, and it has been confirmed by Honda and many other reliable sources that:

 

• EU sales falling vs RoW sales, particularly US and Asia
• Tougher emissions standards in the EU have made diesel engine production no longer viable
• That particular Civic model is to be discontinued in 2022
• The global car market faces enormous challenges and all companies are making huge changes
• Honda (and others) will now focus on production of electric vehicles
• The EU / Japan trade deal means Japan no longer needs to outsource production to an EU country 
• Re the above point, Honda can switch production to Japan, giving Japanese people jobs and boosting the Japanese economy with zero tariffs into the EU
• The Honda plant in Turkey is also being closed for the above reasons
• EU / UK Brexit negotiations are not complete, so there would be no need to announce this now if it were about Brexit

Perhaps you remainers have realised the Honda decision was in fact triggered by the EU/Japan zero tariff trade agreement, and you're trying to deflect blame away from your beloved EU. 

 

 

 

[simple1]

11 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

I've just stumbled upon this thread, and I'm amazed at the determination from remainers to pin anything they can on Brexit. It is plain for everyone to see, and it has been confirmed by Honda and many other reliable sources that:

 

• EU sales falling vs RoW sales, particularly US and Asia
• Tougher emissions standards in the EU have made diesel engine production no longer viable
• That particular Civic model is to be discontinued in 2022
• The global car market faces enormous challenges and all companies are making huge changes
• Honda (and others) will now focus on production of electric vehicles
• The EU / Japan trade deal means Japan no longer needs to outsource production to an EU country 
• Re the above point, Honda can switch production to Japan, giving Japanese people jobs and boosting the Japanese economy with zero tariffs into the EU
• The Honda plant in Turkey is also being closed for the above reasons
• EU / UK Brexit negotiations are not complete, so there would be no need to announce this now if it were about Brexit

Perhaps you remainers have realised the Honda decision was in fact triggered by the EU/Japan zero tariff trade agreement, and you're trying to deflect blame away from your beloved EU. 

 

 

 

Plenty of coverage on Brexit being the final straw to break the camel's back for Honda. Additionally you may like to understand why Honda used the EU FTA as an additional factor. However, IMO, overriding all of this is the farce of the Brexit movement. Especially the fact the prime political promoters immediately walked away from any responsibility whatsoever after the referendum i.e. bullshit baffles brains.

[CG1 Blue]

2 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Plenty of coverage on Brexit being the final straw to break the camel's back for Honda. Additionally you may like to understand why Honda used the EU FTA as an additional factor. However, IMO, overriding all of this is the farce of the Brexit movement. Especially the fact the prime political promoters immediately walked away from any responsibility whatsoever after the referendum - bullshit baffles brains cowardice

The only people putting any blame at all on Brexit for the Honda decision are those who passionately support remaining in the EU. Human nature I guess. 

 

I do agree with you that our government and MPs have handled Brexit shamefully. 

 

[keemapoot]

7 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

The only people putting any blame at all on Brexit for the Honda decision are those who passionately support remaining in the EU. Human nature I guess. 

 

I do agree with you that our government and MPs have handled Brexit shamefully. 

 

Anybody who thinks Brexit was not a factor in Honda's decision has never worked in top management in a large global corporation (and most probably never worked in management of any business regardless of size). The types of analyses that are done need to take EVERY factor into consideration in these types of decisions. They are part of the political/legal analysis done in a global and European supply chain and strategic analysis. Every single one of these analyses I have ever seen and done (many) would take such an important political and legal event such as Brexit into account. To not do so would be unthinkable and inexcusable, whether it's Brexit in examing UK/Europe or Trump's election in the US when examining that market.

 

I'm not saying Brexit was the most important factor, or even the determining factor, but absolutely 100% it was included in the analysis, weighted, and part of the decision to withdraw. Moreover, corporations are not in the habit of disclosing all those factors that went into their decision as this entire process is confidential.

[Cryingdick]

15 hours ago, sanemax said:

If Brexit came into the equation , if their decision had anything at all to do with Brexit, they would have waited a few more weeks to see the outcome and THEN made a decision .

   The fact that they decided a few weeks BEFORE Brexit , shows Brexit had nothing to do with their decision 

 

This shows a fundamental lack of understanding of how large companies do business. I don't have a dog in the fight as far as Brexit goes. 

[stevenl]

8 hours ago, sanemax said:

Are you being serious ?

You are talking about Governments and business's , they dont get upset and cry about rejection .

   If anything , considering the UK Gov has given Toyota many cash incentives , its a slap in the face to the UK Gov that Toyota are relocating and it would have been a good excuse to blame Brexit , like *Sorry that we are leaving, but its because of Brexit , so its your own fault* , but no, they didnt even try to use that as an excuse . 

Don't forget they also want to keep selling cars to brexiteers.

[colinneil]

It has been interesting reading some of the nonsense posts on this thread blaming Brexit.

So can all those blaming Brexit, explain why Ford are pulling out of Brazil, is that to do with Brexit?

[AlexRich]

8 hours ago, colinneil said:

It has been interesting reading some of the nonsense posts on this thread blaming Brexit.

So can all those blaming Brexit, explain why Ford are pulling out of Brazil, is that to do with Brexit?

So if Ford pull out of Brazil it means that Honda's decision to close down a UK factory has nothing to do with Brexit? Is it not obviously two seperate decisions based on different reasons?

 

The Brexit decision and the chaos of Government that has followed has released the Japanese from any long term obligation to the UK. They are not fly by night operators, when they invest they do so long term. Brexit makes their operations inefficient, and a "no deal" would be a disaster. There is no longer any reason to invest in the UK. Honda are diplomatic, they would not say anything that would make the UK Government lose face ... but as someone has mentioned previously, if you look at their financial newspaper, Brexit was a central factor in the decision. Same with Nissan's new model. And we'll see something similar in Derby with Toyota.

 

The decision by Japanese companies to abandon the UK has everything to do with Brexit ... whatever they state. 

 

Brexiteers should be celebrating ... this is what you voted for?

 

[AlexRich]

17 hours ago, sanemax said:

Are you being serious ?

You are talking about Governments and business's , they dont get upset and cry about rejection .

   If anything , considering the UK Gov has given Toyota many cash incentives , its a slap in the face to the UK Gov that Toyota are relocating and it would have been a good excuse to

 

blame Brexit , like *Sorry that we are leaving, but its because of Brexit , so its your own fault* , but no, they didnt even try to use that as an excuse . 

 

I think you might have some mystic powers? I've not read that Toyota are relocating but I suspect they are the next Japanese shoe to drop ... Sony, Panasonic, Nissan, Honda ... all making decisions to either leave the UK or pull back on investments. In a "no deal" scenario we'll see more disappointment from Nissan ... but of course any decision to withdraw from the UK or reduce investment will be "nothing to do with Brexit".

 

"Nothing to do with Brexit" ... we'll be hearing this cry a lot in the future.

 

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, AlexRich said:

So if Ford pull out of Brazil it means that Honda's decision to close down a UK factory has nothing to do with Brexit? Is it not obviously two seperate decisions based on different reasons?

The Brexit decision and the chaos of Government that has followed has released the Japanese from any long term obligation to the UK. They are not fly by night operators, when they invest they do so long term. Brexit makes their operations inefficient, and a "no deal" would be a disaster. There is no longer any reason to invest in the UK. Honda are diplomatic, they would not say anything that would make the UK Government lose face ... but as someone has mentioned previously, if you look at their financial newspaper, Brexit was a central factor in the decision. Same with Nissan's new model. And we'll see something similar in Derby with Toyota.

The decision by Japanese companies to abandon the UK has everything to do with Brexit ... whatever they state. 

Brexiteers should be celebrating ... this is what you voted for?

 

It really isnt .

You disagree with Brexit and thus you are trying to make Brexit look a bad idea . 

Japan signing trade deals with the E.U is the reason fro them pulling out .

Brexit has nothing to do with it 

[stevenl]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

It really isnt .

You disagree with Brexit and thus you are trying to make Brexit look a bad idea . 

Japan signing trade deals with the E.U is the reason fro them pulling out .

Brexit has nothing to do with it 

Sure mate, keep your head in the sand.

[AlexRich]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

It really isnt .

You disagree with Brexit and thus you are trying to make Brexit look a bad idea . 

Japan signing trade deals with the E.U is the reason fro them pulling out .

Brexit has nothing to do with it 

 

"Nothing to do with Brexit"

 

Honda, Nissan, Panasonic, Sony ... warnings to the UK Government by Japanese Prime Minister ... all "nothing to do with Brexit"?

 

I bet the most well worn phrase in Thai Visa for the next few years will be "nothing to do with Brexit".

 

 

[sanemax]

Just now, AlexRich said:

 

"Nothing to do with Brexit"

 

Honda, Nissan, Panasonic, Sony ... warnings to the UK Government by Japanese Prime Minister ... all "nothing to do with Brexit"?

 

I bet the most well worn phrase in Thai Visa for the next few years will be "nothing to do with Brexit".

 

 

We are talking about Hondas withdrawal , nothing else .

[AlexRich]

5 minutes ago, sanemax said:

We are talking about Hondas withdrawal , nothing else .

 

Honda's withdrawal is a consequence of the Brexit vote, as is Sony, Panasonic, Nissan ... with more to come.