sanemax Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Just now, AlexRich said: Honda's withdrawal is a consequence of the Brexit vote, as is Sony, Panasonic, Nissan ... with more to come. Hondas withdrawal is nothing to do with Brexit . Other situations may or may not , I dont know , but this thread is about Hondas withdrawal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRich Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Just now, sanemax said: Hondas withdrawal is nothing to do with Brexit . Other situations may or may not , I dont know , but this thread is about Hondas withdrawal Yes, and the point being made is that Honda's withdrawal has everything to do with Brexit, and it is no coincidence that we are seeing a cluster of Japanese companies withdrawing factories and investment from the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Just now, AlexRich said: Yes, and the point being made is that Honda's withdrawal has everything to do with Brexit, and it is no coincidence that we are seeing a cluster of Japanese companies withdrawing factories and investment from the UK. Hondas withdrawal is because Japan signed a trade deal with the E.U and thus Honda no longer needs to build cars in Europe . Japans trade deals with the E.U are nothing to do with Brexit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 10 minutes ago, sanemax said: Hondas withdrawal is because Japan signed a trade deal with the E.U and thus Honda no longer needs to build cars in Europe . Japans trade deals with the E.U are nothing to do with Brexit Honda's withdrawal is due to several factors. Yes, the trade deal one of those, but it is very, very obvious one of the other factors is brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Just now, stevenl said: Honda's withdrawal is due to several factors. Yes, the trade deal one of those, but it is very, very obvious one of the other factors is brexit. Explain how Brexit factors into Hondas decision ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammieuk1 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, sanemax said: Explain how Brexit factors into Hondas decision ? Probably for the same reasons just about every large scale business has warned about movements of goods tariffs and hostile trading conditions continued uncertainty exchange rates a propped up government at war with itself???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRich Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 13 minutes ago, sanemax said: Explain how Brexit factors into Hondas decision ? Read the quotes from Honda in the article below ... red flags? But of course "nothing to do with Brexit" ... https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/14/honda-uk-warns-mps-of-consequences-of-leaving-eu-customs-union Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CG1 Blue Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 10 hours ago, keemapoot said: Anybody who thinks Brexit was not a factor in Honda's decision has never worked in top management in a large global corporation (and most probably never worked in management of any business regardless of size). The types of analyses that are done need to take EVERY factor into consideration in these types of decisions. They are part of the political/legal analysis done in a global and European supply chain and strategic analysis. Every single one of these analyses I have ever seen and done (many) would take such an important political and legal event such as Brexit into account. To not do so would be unthinkable and inexcusable, whether it's Brexit in examing UK/Europe or Trump's election in the US when examining that market. I'm not saying Brexit was the most important factor, or even the determining factor, but absolutely 100% it was included in the analysis, weighted, and part of the decision to withdraw. Moreover, corporations are not in the habit of disclosing all those factors that went into their decision as this entire process is confidential. I agree that management have to take everything into account, of course. And Brexit would have been on the long list of challenges for Honda. But if the UK had remained in the EU, Honda would still be moving production back to Japan. That's the point I'm trying to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CG1 Blue Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 58 minutes ago, AlexRich said: Yes, and the point being made is that Honda's withdrawal has everything to do with Brexit, and it is no coincidence that we are seeing a cluster of Japanese companies withdrawing factories and investment from the UK. "and it is no coincidence that we are seeing a cluster of Japanese companies withdrawing factories and investment from the UK." Just after Japan signs a trade deal with the EU removing tariffs, and removing the need for a European production base. What a coincidence! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lokie Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Remoners... change the record the UK people voted to L E A V E!!! This thread is/was about Honda not Brexit but hey why let the truth get in the way of your biased opinions... The british car industry went down the swanny back in the 80s only reason companies carried on to date was all the government handouts and deals done to subsidise the industry along with other industries which some have fell by the wayside... the auto industry in the UK is on the cusp - But lets say its Brexit as it helps with our argument - Codswallop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRich Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 33 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said: "and it is no coincidence that we are seeing a cluster of Japanese companies withdrawing factories and investment from the UK." Just after Japan signs a trade deal with the EU removing tariffs, and removing the need for a European production base. What a coincidence! The Japanese have been warning the UK Government since the Brexit vote came through ... they haven’t had a good enough response as the UK looks ungovernable ... Sony and Panasonic have not moved home, they’ve moved to Europe. The decision by Honda was an easy one to make, they no longer feel any obligation to the UK ... and we’ll see more moves by Japanese companies, to shift production and investment to Europe. And home, if that makes sense. Since the vote there has been two major EU trade deals, Japan and Canada. Brexit means giving up those and every trade deal we have and starting from scratch. How good will the UK’s trade deal with Japan be? I’ll bet a damn sight poorer than the one the EU has. Countries around the world will be squeezing the UK on trade deals, because they know they are desperate to show that they can agree them quickly. Brexit was a monumental foot shooting exercise ... and we are slowly seeing the consequences of that decision. That will accelerate when we eventually leave, more so if we leave without a deal. But every disappointment will be met with the cry “it’s nothing to do with Brexit”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CG1 Blue Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 hour ago, AlexRich said: The Japanese have been warning the UK Government since the Brexit vote came through ... they haven’t had a good enough response as the UK looks ungovernable ... Sony and Panasonic have not moved home, they’ve moved to Europe. The decision by Honda was an easy one to make, they no longer feel any obligation to the UK ... and we’ll see more moves by Japanese companies, to shift production and investment to Europe. And home, if that makes sense. Since the vote there has been two major EU trade deals, Japan and Canada. Brexit means giving up those and every trade deal we have and starting from scratch. How good will the UK’s trade deal with Japan be? I’ll bet a damn sight poorer than the one the EU has. Countries around the world will be squeezing the UK on trade deals, because they know they are desperate to show that they can agree them quickly. Brexit was a monumental foot shooting exercise ... and we are slowly seeing the consequences of that decision. That will accelerate when we eventually leave, more so if we leave without a deal. But every disappointment will be met with the cry “it’s nothing to do with Brexit”. This thread is about Honda's decision. That decision was not down to Brexit. We can discuss all the other Brexit concerns you have on other threads. This thread is about Honda, not Brexit. The more you say Honda's decision was about Brexit, the more you weaken your argument for remaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 17 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said: This thread is about Honda's decision. That decision was not down to Brexit. We can discuss all the other Brexit concerns you have on other threads. This thread is about Honda, not Brexit. The more you say Honda's decision was about Brexit, the more you weaken your argument for remaining. Sad when you're so much ignoring reason, arguments and facts given. Anybody who claims this is not related to brexit is pre-occupied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRich Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 13 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said: This thread is about Honda's decision. That decision was not down to Brexit. We can discuss all the other Brexit concerns you have on other threads. This thread is about Honda, not Brexit. The more you say Honda's decision was about Brexit, the more you weaken your argument for remaining. Unfortunately only the most ardent Brexiteer, with their heads firmly in the sand, agree with you. Former UK Ambassador to Japan quoted in the Guardian as saying the idea that Honda’s decision was not related to Brexit as “fanciful” ... I’ll try to link it on here later, not sure how to on my iPad. I’m guessing the chap understands Japanese culture and business approach better than Brexiteers on here? #nothingtodowithBrexit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRich Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Just now, stevenl said: Sad when you're so much ignoring reason, arguments and facts given. Anybody who claims this is not related to brexit is pre-occupied. What I find interesting about Brexiteer reactions to any Brexit bad news is their psychological demeanour. Like young girls who suffer from anorexia ... their sickness is obvious to anyone who looks at them, but when they look in the mirror all they can see is a fat girl staring back at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CG1 Blue Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 58 minutes ago, stevenl said: Sad when you're so much ignoring reason, arguments and facts given. Anybody who claims this is not related to brexit is pre-occupied. On the contrary, the only facts given on this topic are the words from Honda, and Honda say this decision was not due to Brexit. Everything else is assumptions from remainers. Show me something factual proving that Honda's decision to close the Swindon plant was due to Brexit and I'll gladly stand corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said: On the contrary, the only facts given on this topic are the words from Honda, and Honda say this decision was not due to Brexit. Everything else is assumptions from remainers. Show me something factual proving that Honda's decision to close the Swindon plant was due to Brexit and I'll gladly stand corrected. Worldwide opinions of all car analysts? Honda is just being nice to their hosts for 3 more years, and trying to sell cars to the whole of the UK, not 52 or 48%. But sorry, I can't give you Honda's internal decision making papers on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammieuk1 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 2 hours ago, Lokie said: Remoners... change the record the UK people voted to L E A V E!!! This thread is/was about Honda not Brexit but hey why let the truth get in the way of your biased opinions... The british car industry went down the swanny back in the 80s only reason companies carried on to date was all the government handouts and deals done to subsidise the industry along with other industries which some have fell by the wayside... the auto industry in the UK is on the cusp - But lets say its Brexit as it helps with our argument - Codswallop! Looks like your giving us Benny Hill jokes with the avatar thrown in just waiting for the theme music to start???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bomber Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 5 hours ago, sanemax said: We are talking about Hondas withdrawal , nothing else . Nissan and Toyota are the big 2 whose direction we will see soon,i still believe honda leaving was down to brexit its just a case of how big a factor it was,Nissan especially were very anti brexit and will go its just a case of completing the models the factory is set up build,same same Toyota,possibly a few 100 jobs left maybe with some research/development centres but no production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bomber Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 4 hours ago, sanemax said: Explain how Brexit factors into Hondas decision ? is there actually an official statement from honda to read instead of the Media's version or the local brexiteer MP who will lie through his back teeth to say it was nothing to do with brexit,iam sure in 6-18 months a top Honda boss will come out with the truth,a bit like footballers do after falling out with the manager and moving on but everything was apparently fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keemapoot Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 hour ago, stevenl said: Worldwide opinions of all car analysts? Honda is just being nice to their hosts for 3 more years, and trying to sell cars to the whole of the UK, not 52 or 48%. But sorry, I can't give you Honda's internal decision making papers on this. Imagine for a minute the executive decision committee in Honda the day they reviewed the internal strategic analysis. Here's what Brexiteers think happened: Boss: Is this the full analysis on why we should or should not keep the UK operation? Executive team: Yes, it's the full story. Boss: What about Brexit, the biggest political and legal event to hit UK in the past 30 years, is that not relevant? Executive team: No sir, we didn't even examine that issue it's so irrelevant. Boss: Great. thanks then....???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CG1 Blue Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 hour ago, stevenl said: 1 hour ago, CG1 Blue said: On the contrary, the only facts given on this topic are the words from Honda, and Honda say this decision was not due to Brexit. Everything else is assumptions from remainers. Show me something factual proving that Honda's decision to close the Swindon plant was due to Brexit and I'll gladly stand corrected. Worldwide opinions of all car analysts? Honda is just being nice to their hosts for 3 more years, and trying to sell cars to the whole of the UK, not 52 or 48%. But sorry, I can't give you Honda's internal decision making papers on this. So you have nothing factual then. I'm glad we cleared that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CG1 Blue Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 11 minutes ago, bomber said: is there actually an official statement from honda to read instead of the Media's version or the local brexiteer MP who will lie through his back teeth to say it was nothing to do with brexit,iam sure in 6-18 months a top Honda boss will come out with the truth,a bit like footballers do after falling out with the manager and moving on but everything was apparently fine. Yes, there was an official statement from Honda. And within that statement they confirmed the decision was not related to Brexit. There are many reasons why it is no longer viable or necessary for Japanese car manufacturers to produce cars in the UK, or anywhere in the EU. These reasons have been listed several times on this and other threads, so I'm sure you don't need me to repeat them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bomber Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 minute ago, CG1 Blue said: Yes, there was an official statement from Honda. And within that statement they confirmed the decision was not related to Brexit. There are many reasons why it is no longer viable or necessary for Japanese car manufacturers to produce cars in the UK, or anywhere in the EU. These reasons have been listed several times on this and other threads, so I'm sure you don't need me to repeat them. you said all these great nations would be tripping over themselves to sign trade deals with the mighty independent UK,it doesnt seem to be happening does it.it seems they choose to deal with the EU instead,what a shock,140,000 brits work for japenesse companies it seems it will be more than the auto industry affected, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumbastheycome Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 On 2/19/2019 at 12:35 PM, PJPom said: A simple fact of life, the man who put the badge on the Ford Focus in Australia was paid over $1000 per week ( 25,000 baht at the time). The worker also enjoyed penalty rates, sick leave, maternity leave, bereavement leave and numerous other expensive benefits which made labour the most expensive part of car costs. Ford abandoned assembly in Australia and imported Focus from Thailand where a man put the badge on for 2500 baht per week, had few benefits and actually worked. More and more manufacturing companies will leave the higher paid areas as they need a profit, can we blame them?. Sad but true. Yet the degree of profit is too often the focus over any other consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRich Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 15 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said: Yes, there was an official statement from Honda. And within that statement they confirmed the decision was not related to Brexit. There are many reasons why it is no longer viable or necessary for Japanese car manufacturers to produce cars in the UK, or anywhere in the EU. These reasons have been listed several times on this and other threads, so I'm sure you don't need me to repeat them. So if Honda say "it's not Brexit" that must be true? Why would they not say Brexit if Brexit was at the heart of the matter? Could it possibly be self-interest? https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/19/carmakers-quitting-britain-wont-blame-brexit-its-not-in-their-interest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CG1 Blue Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 hour ago, bomber said: you said all these great nations would be tripping over themselves to sign trade deals with the mighty independent UK,it doesnt seem to be happening does it.it seems they choose to deal with the EU instead,what a shock,140,000 brits work for japenesse companies it seems it will be more than the auto industry affected, Feel free to re-post this on a Brexit discussion thread. As I've demonstrated the Honda decision was not about Brexit, so your words here are irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CG1 Blue Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 hour ago, AlexRich said: So if Honda say "it's not Brexit" that must be true? Why would they not say Brexit if Brexit was at the heart of the matter? Could it possibly be self-interest? https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/19/carmakers-quitting-britain-wont-blame-brexit-its-not-in-their-interest I prefer to believe Honda, the company that are actually moving their business. The Guardian are fiercely Remain, so they will try to pin it on Brexit. As will you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRich Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said: I prefer to believe Honda, the company that are actually moving their business. The Guardian are fiercely Remain, so they will try to pin it on Brexit. As will you. You ask for reasons, and you get them ... lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJPom Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 I am not getting into the pro / anti brexit argument but has anyone realised why Nissan , Honda , Toyota started manufacturing in the UK. The EU was making it VERY difficult for the Japanese to get a toehold in Europe in the seventies, import inspections, vague compliance rules and paperwork galore all aimed at protecting the French, Italian, German motor industry. The Japanese dangled a very tasty carrot to the UK Government that could only see the benefits of jobs in the “ deprived areas” and they fell for it, this gave the Japanese unlimited access to Europe as the cars were made in UK, very forward looking people the Japanese marketing men. They have now got an agreement giving them entry to Europe and of course it is going to be cheaper to manufacture in Thailand and other Asian countries, they no longer need the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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