Traveling only with daughter

[nontabury]

On 2/20/2019 at 3:59 PM, Donutz said:

It has nothing to do with nationality or nationalisaties but all with the fight against child kidnapping. So many countries ask parents (especially if its just 1 parent) traveling with minors to show evidence of parental/guardian/custody rights and an okay from the parent that does not join the kids on the trip.

 

In Thailand this can be arranged via a form at the district office (amphur). In Europe (NL) it's done via the town hall etc. 

 

Sure, immigration at both port of entry and departure won't ask all families but they certainly  an do checks. At random or because you meet some criteria (suspicion).

 

Members who wrote they never were asked such evidence when leaving Thailand or their western home country may be right that they haven't been asked.  But it certainly doesn't mean it's not required. There is a chance they ask you to show you are not kidnapping the kids even if you are a biological parent. So better be prepared just incase.

I’ve heard of Farangs who are traveling with their offsprings being asked, but strangely Never heard of a Thai women taking their halfThai,half Farang child out of the country alone being asked.

[rct99q]

Have been travelling between Canada and Thailand with wife and daughter (daughter Thai & cad passports)for the past 5 years. 3 times I have been asked leaving Canada for a consent letter when travelling without wife. Three different airlines, Air Canada, China Airlines, Eva Airlines. 2 times nothing. 

We fly back and forth about 4 times a year,  most times together, sometimes no.

Not saying we would not have gotten on the flight, did seem to make it easier. Except Air Canada. The check in agent told me it was required for check-in procedures. I think it is usedmainly to protect the airlines against any liability if accused of letting through someone who does not have proper custody.

[7by7]

22 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I think we're aged that the letter is need to be safe.

What is the age limit though?

Probably the age of majority for the country the child is leaving and/or entering. For Thailand that is 20, don't know about Korea.

 

22 hours ago, Neeranam said:

My trigger will be traveling to Korea in October without either parent. I wonder if any letter of consent is needed for this.

When my step daughter went on a school trip from the UK to France we were asked to provide a letter of consent.

 

 

[7by7]

9 hours ago, nontabury said:

I’ve heard of Farangs who are traveling with their offsprings being asked, but strangely Never heard of a Thai women taking their halfThai,half Farang child out of the country alone being asked.

As I said earlier, my Thai wife was asked by Thai immigration when taking her Thai daughter out of Thailand.

 

You may say it's because I was with them; but immigration didn't know that when they pulled her over.

[nontabury]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

As I said earlier, my Thai wife was asked by Thai immigration when taking her Thai daughter out of Thailand.

 

You may say it's because I was with them; but immigration didn't know that when they pulled her over.

Every time we go through swampy as a family, my wife goes through the Thai channel with one of our children, while I go through the channel for foreigners with our other child. Every time I am stopped, then I point out my wife and child to the immigration officer, who then walks over to my wife’s and confirms that that I have her permission to depart with the child. So far no immigration officer have enquirered if she has permission to depart Thailand with my other child.

 It’s exactly the same for when we renew their Thai passports. If I go with a child,I must present a letter,countersigned by the local government office. But if my wife goes to renew their passport, no requirement is requested.

 It’s how it is,and we have to accept it.

[Pilotman]

With a Thai family, you are allowed by Immigration to go through the Thai only channel.  We have done so several times. 

 

 

[nontabury]

1 minute ago, Pilotman said:

With a Thai family, you are allowed by Immigration to go through the Thai only channel.  We have done so several times. 

Correct for entering Thailand, but not always so for departing.

May have something to do with the length of the queues, but not sure.

[Pilotman]

1 minute ago, nontabury said:

Correct for entering Thailand, but not always so for departing.

May have something to do with the length of the queues, but not sure.

Maybe, although we have never had a problem and never been refused joining that line.  

[GinBoy2]

4 hours ago, Pilotman said:

With a Thai family, you are allowed by Immigration to go through the Thai only channel.  We have done so several times. 

 

 

That must be different now.

 

When me and my son travelled we both went through the foreigner channel, but my son needed to show both his Thai and US passport.

That was when the 'fun' started!

When I've travelled just with my wife, we've always done the separate Thai, Foreigner channels and met up on the other side

[7by7]

4 hours ago, nontabury said:

Every time we go through swampy as a family, my wife goes through the Thai channel with one of our children, while I go through the channel for foreigners with our other child. Every time I am stopped, then I point out my wife and child to the immigration officer, who then walks over to my wife’s and confirms that that I have her permission to depart with the child. So far no immigration officer have enquirered if she has permission to depart Thailand with my other child

Has it occurred to you that this is because the officer has now established to their satisfaction that the children are travelling with both their parents?

[7by7]

Of course, it is not just Thailand, not just the UK, not just the US; more and more governments globally are becoming more and more concerned about child abduction and child trafficking. Therefore one parent leaving any country with a child or children being asked to provide consent from the other parent or evidence of sole custody is becoming increasingly likely.

 

Just because one hasn't been stopped and asked for parental consent or proof of custody in the past does not mean that it wont happen in the future.

 

I'm sure most people would agree that it's better to have such evidence and not need it than need it and not have it.

 

I sincerely hope that all here would agree that this slight inconvenience is worth it if it prevents even just one child being abducted or trafficked.

[nontabury]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Has it occurred to you that this is because the officer has now established to their satisfaction that the children are travelling with both their parents?

Of course, yet I know of cases where the Thai wife, when traveling with just a half farang child/children, have not been stopped,in fact I do not know of any instances, where they have been stoped. Who knows why?

[GinBoy2]

3 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Of course, it is not just Thailand, not just the UK, not just the US; more and more governments globally are becoming more and more concerned about child abduction and child trafficking. Therefore one parent leaving any country with a child or children being asked to provide consent from the other parent or evidence of sole custody is becoming increasingly likely.

 

Just because one hasn't been stopped and asked for parental consent or proof of custody in the past does not mean that it wont happen in the future.

 

I'm sure most people would agree that it's better to have such evidence and not need it than need it and not have it.

 

I sincerely hope that all here would agree that this slight inconvenience is worth it if it prevents even just one child being abducted or trafficked.

You're right

What seems a pain in the ass piece of bureaucracy for most law abiding folks who are just travelling alone with their kids, if it does stop one child being trafficked or abducted, I guess it's worth it

[Donutz]

5 hours ago, nontabury said:

Of course, yet I know of cases where the Thai wife, when traveling with just a half farang child/children, have not been stopped,in fact I do not know of any instances, where they have been stoped. Who knows why?

I believe 7by7 pointed ou5 that that was sort of the case with his wife, as immi didn't know he (the spouse) was there. But yeah I wouldn't be surprised of the assumption is that women are much much less likely to abduct children or maybe no risk at all, let alone when it's a fellow national. So some bias would not surprise me when it comes to these checks.

 

But regardless, both in Thailand and many more other countries those traveling with minors can be asked upon departure or arrival to make evident that no child abduction is taking place. So best be prepared even if they o my querie a small number of ppl.

[Neeranam]

10 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

That must be different now.

 

When me and my son travelled we both went through the foreigner channel, but my son needed to show both his Thai and US passport.

That was when the 'fun' started!

When I've travelled just with my wife, we've always done the separate Thai, Foreigner channels and met up on the other side

You should never show immigrating both passports if you are a dual citizen.

[Donutz]

4 hours ago, Neeranam said:

You should never show immigrating both passports if you are a dual citizen.

By default only show the best passport for that situation. In Thailand that would be the Thai passport and at the European border (in and out) a EU passport.

 

But if for some reason you would need to make evident that you can enter the destination country or some document you carry refers to your other passport, or simply when asked, then provide the other passport. It's not against Thai law to have dual citizenship (neither is it acknowledged) so provided you are facing a competent officer, there is no harm to in cases like this provide the additional passport.

[GinBoy2]

57 minutes ago, Donutz said:

By default only show the best passport for that situation. In Thailand that would be the Thai passport and at the European border (in and out) a EU passport.

 

But if for some reason you would need to make evident that you can enter the destination country or some document you carry refers to your other passport, or simply when asked, then provide the other passport. It's not against Thai law to have dual citizenship (neither is it acknowledged) so provided you are facing a competent officer, there is no harm to in cases like this provide the additional passport.

I'm trying to remember the exact scenario, but as best I remember. 

We had checked in, they had checked his US passport, and we headed for immigration. I presented my US passport, and his Thai passport, boarding passes etc.

That was when the immigration guy demanded to see my son's US passport, and for whatever reason that set off some alarm bells, and fun the began!

[7by7]

18 hours ago, nontabury said:

Of course, yet I know of cases where the Thai wife, when traveling with just a half farang child/children, have not been stopped,in fact I do not know of any instances, where they have been stoped. Who knows why?

 

13 hours ago, Donutz said:

I believe 7by7 pointed ou5 that that was sort of the case with his wife, as immi didn't know he (the spouse) was there

Indeed I did; twice.

 

On 2/25/2019 at 10:17 AM, 7by7 said:

As I said earlier, my Thai wife was asked by Thai immigration when taking her Thai daughter out of Thailand.

Furthermore, as I am not the girl's biological father my presence may very well have only complicated things had my wife not had the sole custody documents.

 

13 hours ago, Donutz said:

But yeah I wouldn't be surprised of the assumption is that women are much much less likely to abduct children or maybe no risk at all, let alone when it's a fellow national. So some bias would not surprise me when it comes to these checks

I think it used to be the assumption that only fathers would abduct their child; which is not the case. A recent example: British mother Indea Ford admits abducting own children and taking them to US.

 

What seems strange about that case is despite her breaking the terms of a shared custody order by taking the children to live in Alaska without their father's consent; despite her being extradited back to the UK to stand trial and pleading guilty in court to the offence; the children are still in Alaska with their step father!

 

 

[GinBoy2]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 

Furthermore, as I am not the girl's biological father my presence may very well have only complicated things had my wife not had the sole custody document

I think it used to be the assumption that only fathers would abduct their child; which is not the case. A recent example: British mother Indea Ford admits abducting own children and taking them to US.

 

Thats an odd one. The kids were small, so I'm assuming that the court decided that leaving them with the only Father they can probably remember was better.

 

But who knows. Being a judge in family court must be one of the shitest jobs in the world. Someone is always going to be pissed off at you.

 

I'm lazy to google this, but being convicted of felony in a foreign country probably means she also lost her green card, and therefore right of residency in the United States!

 

Back to the topic of which passport to use.

 

The issue @donutz mentioned about only using one passport.

The issue many of us have faced, is our kids are citizens of the country you're travelling to, therefore you're not getting them a visa for their Thai passport, since they are citizens of country xyz

You always have to show a passport at check in that shows you have a legal right of entry into the country you travelling to. 

But they live in Thailand, with a Thai passport and ID card, so you just can't get around having to use both at the airport to leave Thailand.

Now departing on the other end tends to be easier, but that's the reality of departing Thailand

[7by7]

On 2/26/2019 at 4:39 PM, GinBoy2 said:

The issue many of us have faced, is our kids are citizens of the country you're travelling to, therefore you're not getting them a visa for their Thai passport, since they are citizens of country xyz

You always have to show a passport at check in that shows you have a legal right of entry into the country you travelling to. 

But they live in Thailand, with a Thai passport and ID card, so you just can't get around having to use both at the airport to leave Thailand.

 

Airlines are subject to large fines 10,000 USD per passenger if memory serves, if they knowingly carry a passenger who does not have the correct entry clearance for their destination. So when passengers check in it is the passport they'll be using to enter their destination which the check in staff need to see.

 

Since being naturalised as British citizens my wife and step daughter have always done the following.

 

Leaving the UK:

• show Thai passport at check in so airline know they can enter Thailand;
• passports are not routinely checked when leaving the UK, but if asked show British passport to show they have not overstayed;
• on arrival in Thailand show Thai passport to show they can be admitted without restriction.

Leaving Thailand, it's the other way around:

• show British passport at check in;
• show Thai passport to Thai immigration;
• on arrival in UK show British passport.

Thai immigration have never asked them why they have no UK visa in their Thai passport, they basically couldn't care; it's not their problem if the traveler is refused entry at their destination. But if they were ever asked then they would show them their British passports. 

 

 

 

 

 

[GinBoy2]

47 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

Airlines are subject to large fines 10,000 USD per passenger if memory serves, if they knowingly carry a passenger who does not have the correct entry clearance for their destination. So when passengers check in it is the passport they'll be using to enter their destination which the check in staff need to see.

 

Since being naturalised as British citizens my wife and step daughter have always done the following.

 

Leaving the UK:

• show Thai passport at check in so airline know they can enter Thailand;
• passports are not routinely checked when leaving the UK, but if asked show British passport to show they have not overstayed;
• on arrival in Thailand show Thai passport to show they can be admitted without restriction.

Leaving Thailand, it's the other way around:

• show British passport at check in;
• show Thai passport to Thai immigration;
• on arrival in UK show British passport.

Thai immigration have never asked them why they have no UK visa in their Thai passport, they basically couldn't care; it's not their problem if the traveler is refused entry at their destination. But if they were ever asked then they would show them their British passports. 

 

 

 

 

 

Exiting Thailand is the difficult bit.

 

We never had a problem exiting the United States on our US passports, since we're visa exempt entry to Thailand, then entering on his Thai passport and my re-entry permit.

 

It was only the departure from Thailand than was a problem

[Haso]

I have just finished completing this type of application for my wife and her daughter. Visa type 600.
To travel from Thailand to Australia on a Visitor visa the child needs written permission from the unaccompanied parent only If child is under the age of 18 years. If both parents are traveling with the child then no permission is needed. If you apply electronically a Form 1229 covers the child traveling with one parent that needs to be signed by the unaccompaning parent. Hope this info helps.


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[Haso]

So correct.. Good advice.. Make sure you have all the necessary permission.


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