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Rattled military resorts to ‘hate’ strategy


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I love seeing them suffer. They bang on incessantly about how great it is and how proud they are to be Thai and oh so unique that no outsiders can understand. 

 

Well, now it seems they are so adept at being misunderstood, they, too, cannot understand themselves. 

 

You proudly breed a nation of predominantly simple minded people who can't reason or handle conflict, and this is what you get: a uniquely Thai problem. 

 

Be proud! It's yours! 

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13 minutes ago, neeray said:

If Thaivisa members could vote, this group just produced a landslide victory in favour of change.

No division here. Not a single post-of-support appeared so far. Now, how do we convert that support to reality?

We can't we can only blow hot air as we cannot vote. Its up to the Thais to do something not us. Just imagine the outcry if foreigners messed with your countries politics. Best you can do if you wan't to do anything is try to convince your partner to vote a certain way. I personally won't do that as its not my vote but hers. Otherwise I would stay out of politics. Its all ok to discuss it here but doing something actually could be stupid and dangerous. 

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I quite like living inn a Police State.

 

I, like ever commentator above, remain unaffected on a day to day basis by the slings and arrows of Thai politics.????

 

Maybe commentators should worry more about the likes of Trump, May, Merkel, etc and the irreperable damage they are doing back in their 'home' 'demoratic' countries.

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5 minutes ago, Psimbo said:

I quite like living inn a Police State.

 

I, like ever commentator above, remain unaffected on a day to day basis by the slings and arrows of Thai politics.????

 

Maybe commentators should worry more about the likes of Trump, May, Merkel, etc and the irreperable damage they are doing back in their 'home' 'demoratic' countries.

In reality Thai politics / junta / democracy does not affect us much. It actually also does not affect that many Thais otherwise they would have responded. Lets wait for the election and see but one things is for sure Thais have been so disillusioned by politics that they don't really care that much anymore. They will vote for sure, but they won't risk it to bring in new corrupt people to replace the old corrupt people. 

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29 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Not sure most countries staged coups whenever their government under-achieved. Rather insane reason that you gave. 

Ohh your awake el, but sadly not the point, your usual...

 

By the way your lady idol wasn't pushed aside because of  'underachieving'   but of course just your attempt to divert and confuse.

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This sounds like the Turkish model when your perceived opponents start to rise stage a phoney coup and blame it on them then call them terrorists and jail everyone in sight it sure worked there and you can call yourself Sultan General the day after ????  

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19 minutes ago, robblok said:

In reality Thai politics / junta / democracy does not affect us much. It actually also does not affect that many Thais otherwise they would have responded. Lets wait for the election and see but one things is for sure Thais have been so disillusioned by politics that they don't really care that much anymore. They will vote for sure, but they won't risk it to bring in new corrupt people to replace the old corrupt people. 

I take your point but somehow I think the red highly corrupt brigade will still get big vote counts in the NE.

 

The next point is why? It can't be because of solid development policies, reform of education, reform of police, real actual changes to bring a much better quality of life, because that's just not their intent - as they have already mentioned their priority is to bring a convicted criminal on the run home. 

 

Why do I suspect money changing hands?

 

Ohh no can't be - these candidates are so sincere, so honest and trustworthy, all of them totally unblemished and solid contributors to society.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Sorry that you not awake to see the point. Sometimes I wonder who is awake and who has slept through the last coup. 

Oh you mean those who have deliberately slept through the reasons for the last coup... criminal dereliction of duty comes to mind.

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1 minute ago, scorecard said:

I take your point but somehow I think the red highly corrupt brigade will still get big vote counts in the NE.

 

The next point is why? It can't be because of solid development policies, reform of education, reform of police, real actual changes to bring a much better quality of life, because that's just not their intent - as they have already mentioned their priority is to bring a convicted criminal on the run home. 

 

Why do I suspect money changing hands?

 

Ohh no can't be - these candidates are so sincere, so honest and trustworthy, all of them totally unblemished and solid contributors to society.

 

 

Why they vote red, simple the alternative is not much better and they feel loyal towards the PTP. add to that that there are no good other alternatives plus village heads and others encourage people to vote red. 

 

I don't see why they should NOT vote red, who else should they vote for what party is a lot better then the PTP ? Democrats.. not really also corrupt. Fact is they just choose the least worst option in their opinion. 

 

I agree that the PTP is not there for the people, but then again none of them really are. That is why i comment on all of them. 

 

Its quite simple, whoever gets voted in tosses some scraps to their supporters and lives like a king of corruption and acts like the opposition does not count so no explanation of any corruption scandals. Kinda like how the junta is ignoring it now when it concerns their own.

 

I dislike the PTP and Thaksin but they are not that much different from the Junta, Democrats whoever. They are all in it for themselves, i have yet to see a Thai government that would be actively changing laws for the better instead of trying to push through corrupt scemes and policies that benefits their pockets. 

 

Who do you see as good ?

 

I think future forward might be good.. but he is unproven.

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11 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Oh you mean those who have deliberately slept through the reasons for the last coup... criminal dereliction of duty comes to mind.

Criminal dereliction of duty comes to my mind of this junta seizing power and their governance including a few blatant watchable cases.  

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1 hour ago, scorecard said:

"This cretin is simply doing what is instructed of him by his two scheming masters."

Sadly and worryingly i have got feeling hes higher in pecking order, the other two are mere lackys

(A Thai friend has being sending AMM news updates some very interesting stuff there)

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16 minutes ago, robblok said:

Why they vote red, simple the alternative is not much better and they feel loyal towards the PTP. add to that that there are no good other alternatives plus village heads and others encourage people to vote red. 

 

I don't see why they should NOT vote red, who else should they vote for what party is a lot better then the PTP ? Democrats.. not really also corrupt. Fact is they just choose the least worst option in their opinion. 

 

I agree that the PTP is not there for the people, but then again none of them really are. That is why i comment on all of them. 

 

Its quite simple, whoever gets voted in tosses some scraps to their supporters and lives like a king of corruption and acts like the opposition does not count so no explanation of any corruption scandals. Kinda like how the junta is ignoring it now when it concerns their own.

 

I dislike the PTP and Thaksin but they are not that much different from the Junta, Democrats whoever. They are all in it for themselves, i have yet to see a Thai government that would be actively changing laws for the better instead of trying to push through corrupt scemes and policies that benefits their pockets. 

 

Who do you see as good ?

 

I think future forward might be good.. but he is unproven.

 Agree with all your points.

 

Who do is see as an alternative? Agree again, out of a very poor selection possibly future forward, but unproven.

 

But one of their policies worries me, 2,000Baht (2,000?) hand out every month forever for every citizen including the rich.

 

Seems to me:

 

- The real needy won't be impressed at all, both with the policy and the policy makes, could even paint him as aligned to helping / supporting the rich?

 

- But assistance for very low income earners I strongly support. And/or valuable support for low income families with kids at school, hopefully to help them get some education - in my book, the key to everything.

 

- 2,000Baht every month for every person in Thailand - surely the county would be bankrupt very quickly.

 

- And seems to me such monies paid to the rich should have a very different priority - to be used for many other much more valuable development items. 

 

We wait and see.

 

 

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1 hour ago, scorecard said:

"This cretin is simply doing what is instructed of him by his two scheming masters."

 

Not so sure about that, also seems that he's from a very different and powerful internal military clique which doesn't recognize the NCPO and which has no hesitation to stand up to other military folks.

General Apirat is a staunch royalist as is Prayut Chan-o-cha. This story from the Strait Times might give you a different slant on things. Particularly the bit about about "Bangkok's media portrays Gen Apirat as a "trusted lieutenant" of Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha"

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/new-thai-army-chief-takes-command

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1 hour ago, Fex Bluse said:

I love seeing them suffer. They bang on incessantly about how great it is and how proud they are to be Thai and oh so unique that no outsiders can understand. 

 

Well, now it seems they are so adept at being misunderstood, they, too, cannot understand themselves. 

 

You proudly breed a nation of predominantly simple minded people who can't reason or handle conflict, and this is what you get: a uniquely Thai problem. 

 

Be proud! It's yours! 

 You can throw the same comment at many voting blocks in many countries, the make America great followers just one example.

 

By the way there's no need to go on and on with Thai bashing. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Cadbury said:

General Apirat is a staunch royalist as is Prayut Chan-o-cha. This story from the Strait Times might give you a different slant on things. Particularly the bit about about "Bangkok's media portrays Gen Apirat as a "trusted lieutenant" of Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha"

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/new-thai-army-chief-takes-command

 Do you believe everything you read in the Straights Times? I certainly don't.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 Agree with all your points.

 

Who do is see as an alternative? Agree again, out of a very poor selection possibly future forward, but unproven.

 

But one of their policies worries me, 2,000Baht (2,000?) hand out every month forever for every citizen including the rich.

 

Seems to me:

 

- The real needy won't be impressed at all, both with the policy and the policy makes, could even paint him as aligned to helping / supporting the rich?

 

- But assistance for very low income earners I strongly support. And/or valuable support for low income families with kids at school, hopefully to help them get some education - in my book, the key to everything.

 

- 2,000Baht every month for every person in Thailand - surely the county would be bankrupt very quickly.

 

- And seems to me such monies paid to the rich should have a very different priority - to be used for many other much more valuable development items. 

 

We wait and see.

 

 

Yes its clearly unsustainable 2000 bt a month, unless they really cut military spending a lot. I never like it when policies are made and not shown how they are really going to finance it. It looks fake.

 

I understand why they give it to everyone, i mean sorting it for wealth would make it hard and open for corruption. This way no corruption could get into the system. Maybe that weighs up for paying the rich its not as if there are that much rich Thais.

 

Still i find giving out free money like that NOT a a good policy, almost sounds like a bribe.. vote for me then. This policy could be crazy expensive. 

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1 hour ago, robblok said:

We can't we can only blow hot air as we cannot vote. Its up to the Thais to do something not us. Just imagine the outcry if foreigners messed with your countries politics. Best you can do if you wan't to do anything is try to convince your partner to vote a certain way. I personally won't do that as its not my vote but hers. Otherwise I would stay out of politics. Its all ok to discuss it here but doing something actually could be stupid and dangerous. 

I respect your opinion but what you addressed missed the mark on my post. The key is in my first word "If". As for "convince your partner"; she and family already made their decision, "the right way".

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2 hours ago, neeray said:

If Thaivisa members could vote, this group just produced a landslide victory in favour of change.

No division here. Not a single post-of-support appeared so far. Now, how do we convert that support to reality?

Thinking back tot he time of the coup(s) and so many expats full throated support. 

 

We did warn them, we did predict entirely how this would go, they were told.. Once you support the removal of the democratic choice by force, its very hard to get that force back under democratic control..

 

They've gone mighty quiet now. 

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46 minutes ago, robblok said:

Yes its clearly unsustainable 2000 bt a month, unless they really cut military spending a lot. I never like it when policies are made and not shown how they are really going to finance it. It looks fake.

 

I understand why they give it to everyone, i mean sorting it for wealth would make it hard and open for corruption. This way no corruption could get into the system. Maybe that weighs up for paying the rich its not as if there are that much rich Thais.

 

Still i find giving out free money like that NOT a a good policy, almost sounds like a bribe.. vote for me then. This policy could be crazy expensive. 

 All agreed.

 

Into the future removing or reducing payouts like this very very difficult, that's part of my ultimate reasoning for NOT giving it to the rich. 

 

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The reason why Thailand has so many generals is simple - Thai generals are promoted in bunch, those who graduated from the same class and service in similar post from the same period are always promoted together (like Japanese officers in WWII). That’s why there are always a bunch of generals, most of them are not in command of any unit and served an advisory role to their senior.

The reason they have been using this practice of over employing generals is due from the Cold War era. When the threats of the communist invasion was highest and the CPT (Communist Party of Thailand) was still active, it was expected that the general who took command of the troops would be among the casualties when a large scale operation was conducted. And so a lot of officers were recruited at once from the same class, if the commanding general got killed, another quickly took his place and keep the fight going on.

 

Even now, the military academy class is still very important. Political factions between the green-men is usually determined by the ‘class’ they belong in. Some are more influential than another and some are know to support one or another politicians. They are more loyal to their classmate than most other allegiance. So it is very reasonable that they are promoted in batch even though most of them don’t hold any true power.

And that’s likely why Thai military command structure looks very top heavy with so many generals without any division or fleet to command.

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1 hour ago, Cadbury said:

General Apirat is a staunch royalist as is Prayut Chan-o-cha. This story from the Strait Times might give you a different slant on things. Particularly the bit about about "Bangkok's media portrays Gen Apirat as a "trusted lieutenant" of Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha"

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/new-thai-army-chief-takes-command

There are two distinct factions within the officer corps. Both groups are akin to masonic lodges. Both groups have wildly imaginative nicknames, which suggest extraordinary military prowess! These factions owe their allegiances to two very different, very powerful men. There is considerable bad blood between these two. The current Junta is drawn from one faction, who have been in the ascendence for some time. This fellow is from the other faction, whose star might be said to be rising. Despite their bitter, perhaps deadly, rivalry, these two factions have one thing in common; they have no time for democracy, and no interest in what the people want. 

 

This election, is merely the precursor to a struggle to govern between these two factions.

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6 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

It appears that the animosity that existed some 40 years ago when student protests were met with military resistence...still exists today.

 

This could become another dark and violent time in Thai history.  It is difficult to reason with people who have guns.

What happened back then may possibly happen again soon.

 

The drawback for the military is that what they could hide so easily back then will not be so easy to hide nowadays with so many smart phones having cameras and internet access and the social media.

 

They only way that this government, or another coup government, could stop the news leaking out in the short term would be to block the internet completely, close down all the media press, censor the TV and radio and close ALL the border crossings, including ALL international airports and sea crossings.

 

That of course will play havoc with all the millions of tourists coming in on holidays not to mention the immense loss of income from those tourists.

 

They would also need to keep people 25 or more km shutdown and moved, so that nobody can sneak up to the borders and use the internet connections from neighbouring countries.

 

What Gen Apirat and ALL the other generals don't understand is that the day of the dinosaur has gone and they should have gone with it.

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4 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

The reason why Thailand has so many generals is simple - Thai generals are promoted in bunch, those who graduated from the same class and service in similar post from the same period are always promoted together (like Japanese officers in WWII). That’s why there are always a bunch of generals, most of them are not in command of any unit and served an advisory role to their senior.

{snipped}

Rather than  "are always promoted together (like Japanese officers in WWII)", I was expecting to read "promoted together (like sheep)".

 

Very fitting that the collective noun for Thai generals appears to be "a bunch"!

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1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

Thinking back tot he time of the coup(s) and so many expats full throated support. 

 

We did warn them, we did predict entirely how this would go, they were told.. Once you support the removal of the democratic choice by force, its very hard to get that force back under democratic control..

 

They've gone mighty quiet now. 

Not quiet at all.

 

There is little doubt that the NCOP has really gone off the rails.

 

But what is still in the picture is that the previous 'democratically elected' (not true) government was massively / criminally derelict, laugh in the face of the poor unpaid farmers, tried to drain the depositors funds out a bank, had no hesitation to try illegal moves, vote at 3 am in the morning to give their convicted criminal fled paymaster amnesty,  massively reduce the resources for anti-corruption activities, get approval for 3 Trillion Baht trough with no fixed details of how it could be used, and reduce / delete the checks and balances, etc., so that could never be voted out of power. 

 

Now away your go with the junta lover comments, instead of logical argument. 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Sticky Wicket said:

Hard to feel sorry for such an apathetic, acquiescent nation of people. 

Now I DO feel sorry for the Thai people because they are mostly unarmed and have no really safe way to protest at the Army coups.

 

Would anybody here willingly step up unarmed, to a mass of soldiers, armed with rifles, APCs, tanks etc and tell them that they are wrong and should return to their barracks and never stage a coup again?

 

I certainly wouldn't or couldn't.

 

There is a small glimmer of hope in my mind that as the majority of soldiers are conscripts they may refuse to open fire on unarmed civilians, some of whom may be part of their families. Sure if that happens there will be some soldiers shot by the regulars and it may tip the rest into returning fire and mutinying.

 

This only my thoughts and opinions. There is a breaking point somewhere for Thais.

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9 minutes ago, billd766 said:

There is a small glimmer of hope in my mind that as the majority of soldiers are conscripts they may refuse to open fire on unarmed civilians

I think you'll find that the conscripts are not the troops that are used when suppressing protests / firing on protestors. In those cases, they use "professional" soldiers or zealous paramilitaries, certainly not green conscripts.

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5 hours ago, Hayduke said:

 

Apirat is obviously not just speaking for himself….he is saying what he's told to say. It’s just that General candidate Prayuth is in a pre-election ‘play nice’ mode and doesn’t want to be directly involved in this sort of drama...hence the intimidation by proxy.  As soon as the election is over and Prayuth has confirmed himself as “God-for-Life”…watch the fascist hammer really fall.

 

 

I don't think Prayuth is issuing any instructions to Apirat. Totally different factions.   

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2 minutes ago, GarryP said:

I don't think Prayuth is issuing any instructions to Apirat. Totally different factions.   

In fact it seems to me he general is rather intimidated by him and where he comes from in terms of past military family / history. 

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