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BANGKOK 22 April 2019 21:59
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UK's Hammond says no-deal Brexit would be 'mutual calamity'

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1 hour ago, Basil B said:

But they will get a new shopping center, more "waiting for God" staffed on the cheap care homes, a collage to train for jobs that ain't there and lots of new houses for people without jobs when the propriety developers move in, Just look what St Modwen did for longbridge...  

Yes, but as they sit at home with the heating off, scoffing a Pot Noodle, they can congratulate themselves in “taking back control”, sticking two fingers up to Johnny Foreigner. 

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35 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

Yes, but as they sit at home with the heating off, scoffing a Pot Noodle, they can congratulate themselves in “taking back control”, sticking two fingers up to Johnny Foreigner. 

That's what the whole Brexit nonsense is all about.

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1 minute ago, tomacht8 said:

That's what the whole Brexit nonsense is all about.

Sadly true. 

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19 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

Sadly true. 

Until now, no pro Brexit fan could say me with a little bit of logic, how he is personally exactly better off, after Brexit.
You only hear fantasies and from Castles in the air.
National light-headed mudguards take over the land.
Was not different in Germany in the beginning 1933.

Edited by tomacht8
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2 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

That's what the whole Brexit nonsense is all about.

it started with immigration and how many times do we hear immigration mentioned now?  it barely gets a mention,vast majority of leave voters didnt give a hoot about trade/jobs/economy/inflation/the pound/growth.

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13 minutes ago, bomber said:

it started with immigration and how many times do we hear immigration mentioned now?  it barely gets a mention,vast majority of leave voters didnt give a hoot about trade/jobs/economy/inflation/the pound/growth.

Brexit is now an ideology similar to Jehovah's Witnesses.
For the functioning of a mass ideology it is necessary that
a. clear stereotypes enemy images exist: foreigners, Polish plumbers who take the work away, the EU with its laws, etc. and
b A common body consists like us English, or we the electorate, or we the People have spoken, Projekt fear, etc.
Then suddenly the "other" 48% are seen as enemies in their own country.
The whole thing will be then, all a Goebbels fueled,  by the media and professional, paid scribblers in the social media.
Done is the cocktail of discord.
Rational arguments like trade/jobs/economy/inflation/the pound/growth, do not come through then.

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2 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

Brexit is now an ideology similar to Jehovah's Witnesses.
For the functioning of a mass ideology it is necessary that
a. clear stereotypes enemy images exist: foreigners, Polish plumbers who take the work away, the EU with its laws, etc. and
b A common body consists like us English, or we the electorate, or we the People have spoken, Projekt fear, etc.
Then suddenly the "other" 48% are seen as enemies in their own country.
The whole thing will be then, all a Goebbels fueled,  by the media and professional, paid scribblers in the social media.
Done is the cocktail of discord.
Rational arguments like trade/jobs/economy/inflation/the pound/growth, do not come through then.

they all seem to think everything is going change for the better but they are in for a shock,i cannot see one aspect of their lives that are going to change,and the fact they are relying on UK politicians to make it better makes it a certainty,dreamers comes to mind.

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8 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

Brexit is now an ideology similar to Jehovah's Witnesses.
For the functioning of a mass ideology it is necessary that
a. clear stereotypes enemy images exist: foreigners, Polish plumbers who take the work away, the EU with its laws, etc. and
b A common body consists like us English, or we the electorate, or we the People have spoken, Projekt fear, etc.
Then suddenly the "other" 48% are seen as enemies in their own country.
The whole thing will be then, all a Goebbels fueled,  by the media and professional, paid scribblers in the social media.
Done is the cocktail of discord.
Rational arguments like trade/jobs/economy/inflation/the pound/growth, do not come through then.

Indeed. A financial crisis, a battered and suddenly much poorer people left to deal with the consequences, conniving demagogues seizing the opportunity to turn ordinarily decent folk against one another. It's all there... But it is Nazi Germany I am talking about, not the Witnesses...

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24 minutes ago, bomber said:

they all seem to think everything is going change for the better but they are in for a shock,i cannot see one aspect of their lives that are going to change,and the fact they are relying on UK politicians to make it better makes it a certainty,dreamers comes to mind.

I think they do not think it will get all better. Also the reflexion, what does that mean for me personally and my life, family, etc. is not relevant. It is often experienced that people who previously had no power, to whom little attention was given, are suddenly very important. Just like the little border official who pushes your entry stamp into the passport or not. 
It is ultimately about achieving a common goal. Even if the goal makes no sense.
The whole thing is accompanied by appeals to national pride and sacrifice.
In a society often disadvantaged, be it objective or even subjective, find themselves together in a new dynamic.
The desire to belong to a solid group is dominant here. Content and goals are secondary.

Edited by tomacht8
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7 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

I think they do not think it will get all better. Also the reflexion, what does that mean for me personally and my life, family, etc. is not relevant. It is often experienced that people who previously had no power, to whom little attention was given, are suddenly very important. Just like the little border official who pushes your entry stamp into the passport or not. 
It is ultimately about achieving a common goal. Even if the goal makes no sense.
The whole thing is accompanied by appeals to national pride and sacrifice.
In a society often disadvantaged, be it objective or even subjective, find themselves together in a new dynamic.
The desire to belong to a solid group is dominant here. Content and goals are secondary.

Perspicacity at its finest. Puts my own humble musings to shame.

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24 minutes ago, baboon said:

Indeed. A financial crisis, a battered and suddenly much poorer people left to deal with the consequences, conniving demagogues seizing the opportunity to turn ordinarily decent folk against one another. It's all there... But it is Nazi Germany I am talking about, not the Witnesses...

I used to stand in the former stadium of the 3rd Reich in Nürnberg. The size and power of this course is impressive. It is easy to imagine how the atmosphere must have been there when 100,000 People with fire torches swore on the swastika flag.
Thankfully, Brexit does not have that, but the mass mechanism is the same.

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8 hours ago, steve187 said:

and whats that to do with the topic, diesel cars not wanted dead as a dodo, evolve or die.

Easy to evolve when you have a tariff-free deal allowing you to export cars from Japan to Europe.  Not so easy for entrepeneurs in Swindon.  We need to be clear that we are taking the Spartan approach to improving the UK economy. 

 

No gain without pain.  Suffering makes you stronger.  Strength through adversity.  Devil take the hindmost.  I'm sure it will be fine in the long run, whatever hardship people might suffer in the short term, and potential strains on our civic society,

 

SC

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15 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

I used to stand in the former stadium of the 3rd Reich in Nürnberg. The size and power of this course is impressive. It is easy to imagine how the atmosphere must have been there when 100,000 People with fire torches swore on the swastika flag.
Thankfully, Brexit does not have that, but the mass mechanism is the same.

Aspirations. We all need aspirations.  Can we rename Wembley "Brexit Stadium"?  There are a lot of stadia around the country that are only used at the weekend.  Perhaps we could hold public forum meetings to explain the benefits of Brexit, and develop consensus and agreement, and some healthy formation marching and chanting to get us all on the same page.  Unity and Power.  Strength through Joy.

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