Up to 15 British ministers may vote to stop UK from leaving EU on March 29: Bloomberg

[simple1]

10 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I would suggest you go back and read my argument. Many of those that came as so called refugees or asylum seekers did not have documentation with them. Also it was Merkel's open door policy that caused the influx of people across the EU. As many people point out which was certainly not the reason why I voted for Brexit.

 

I have said my point and it is digressing from why 15 ministers may move with the new so called independent group. a group that have nothing in common with each other than wanting to stop brexit and overturn the referendum result. These people are exactly what is wrong with politics. they do not represent their constituents they represent themselves and care about nobody except themselves.

Also it was Merkel's open door policy that caused the influx of people across the EU - Correct, but not the UK which is the OP topic. But again look at the reasons she made the call i.e. Greece was collapsing under the pressure.

[stevenl]

15 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I would suggest you go back and read my argument. Many of those that came as so called refugees or asylum seekers did not have documentation with them. Also it was Merkel's open door policy that caused the influx of people across the EU. As many people point out which was certainly not the reason why I voted for Brexit.

 

I have said my point and it is digressing from why 15 ministers may move with the new so called independent group. a group that have nothing in common with each other than wanting to stop brexit and overturn the referendum result. These people are exactly what is wrong with politics. they do not represent their constituents they represent themselves and care about nobody except themselves.

I would say they care about their country.

It is not always the right thing to do what your constituents want.

[Laughing Gravy]

13 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

The Independent Group have spotted a niche in the political market, the centre ground. Corbyn is going to the extreme left, and "no deal" Tories are trying to take them to the extreme right, note the influx of new members from the ranks of UKIP, and the threats of de-selection for the more moderate conservatives. 

 

There's not much difference between Cameron's and Blair's Governments, particularly when the Tories teamed up with the Liberals ... so they might just offer a home to voters who don't feel at home with the Corbyn's and Rees Mogg's of this world. 

 

 

 

 

 

Your opinion is an interesting one and to such a degree, I agree with. I think that if Nigel Farage starts a party there will be another faction that will offer people a choice.

 

Labour and Conservatives could be the minorities in the future.

 

As for this independent group seeing a Niche, yes I agree. To stop brexit that is all, as they have nothing else in common.

[Kieran00001]

23 hours ago, steve187 said:

but its our country and i assume our crotch we are shooting, The EU has had its day all empires come to an end. its that time

 

all non Brits can have an opinion but it doesn't count. I don't poke my nose in to  the comedy show going on in the USA

 

You think the EU has already seen its day?  I think you will find that is the British problem.

[Kieran00001]

2 hours ago, Spidey said:

I didn't know that there were 15 ministers. I'll bet you can't name them.

 

We don't know how many there are, its just what an insider source has claimed, but note that these are not the defectors, these are other ministers who are currently remaining loyal to the Tory party yet stating that they plan not to follow the line of the party whip.

[faraday]

14 hours ago, Donut21 said:

Who would like to live in a dictatorship, The UK does and we voted to leave it.  Hitler was a dictator and we lost many good men fighting for our freedom, which we won.  We lost it to the EU now we want it back.

Your first sentence, is complete rubbish.

[StreetCowboy]

14 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

maybe my memory is failing

wasn't 1/6 gill standard nip size, pulled from dispensers?

 

Good Lord, no.  Pubs were divided between quarter-gill and fifth-gill shops. I’m not sure about England though....

[AlexRich]

3 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Your opinion is an interesting one and to such a degree, I agree with. I think that if Nigel Farage starts a party there will be another faction that will offer people a choice.

 

Labour and Conservatives could be the minorities in the future.

 

As for this independent group seeing a Niche, yes I agree. To stop brexit that is all, as they have nothing else in common.

It’s more like a group of MP’s who got together over shared Brexit concerns, discovered that they got on better than with some more extreme colleagues, and didn’t like the extreme directions that their parties are taking. Whatever anyone thinks of Blair, he succeeded because his policies where centre ground. There is not much difference between a Blairite and a One Nation Tory.

 

 

 

[Grouse]

14 hours ago, SheungWan said:

I hope all Brexiteers will join me in taking out a subscription to The Chap.

https://thechap.co.uk/

 

The Chap Manifesto,^[2] which mandates that a chap is to smoke a pipe

 

I smoke a pipe - a Peterson - acquired at James J. Fox of St. James' St.

 

Quite a rarity these days. 

 

Borkum Riff Cherry Cavendish.............

 

The world would be a much better, more thoughtful place if everyone smoked pipes!

[Grouse]

6 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

You did not read my post and links it is these very Africans and sub continents who came with no ID, let in by Merkels EU policy.

 

Brit bashing again.

 

So where is the evidence for the statement above about Brit nastiness and especially being morons.

 

Still waiting for your long awaited EU reply. I guess like your recent responses you only reply with no conviction and just abuse.

 

As I have stated the British morons would be more than happy to see you give in your British passport. This one would be ecstatic.

How many Africans immigrants entered the UK as a direct result of Merkel's largesse?

 

None? Approximately none?

 

It is a fact that EU net migration has dropped like a stone. The most frequent reason for leaving is that EU immigrants are now made to feel unwelcome. That is due to English (specifically) nastiness.

 

Total net migration is STILL 2x to 3x the Tory target 

 

So the number of non EU migrants has risen steeply

 

As so many Brexiters are racist (despite the denials) or Xenophobic or anti muslim bigots like me; it seems moronic that this is the net result.

 

I apologise for keeping you waiting 3 weeks. I will respond.

[Grouse]

6 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Huh? At end of primary school years, all children in the public education system took an examination referred to as the 11+. The results of that test determined whether an individual was admitted to either a Grammar School or Secondary Modern School. With educational reform in the second half of the 1960s/early 1970s the 11+ was abolished and the binary divide mostly (though not completely) abolished in favour of Comprehensive Schools. Pockets of selection still survive in the UK. All this is separate from the Public School (ie private) education system. If someone tells you they went to a Comprehensive school it usually means they are of a younger generation than those of us who attended either Grammar or Secondary Modern schools. 

I attended a grammar school and went on to take a real degree at a Russell Group University.

 

I sent my my British children to Bedales which is an excellent, if expensive, fee paying school. Very progressive and not at all like Eton or Harrow or Winchester. The school was mixed boarding, very informal with no uniforms and staff referred to by first names. Quite excellent in all respects. Nearly broke me but worth every penny. First class teachers and small class sizes. I recall that every Friday evening they held a "Jaw". A leading light from a profession came to give a talk. Airline pilot, fighter pilot, oncologist, battleship driver etc etc. Pink Floyd came one Friday! Recommended.

 

To my mind, education is everything. As a parent I was happy to get the best education for my children that I could afford.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedales_School

 

I see its 12,000 quid a term now ????

 

 

[Mansell]

On February 21, 2019 at 8:55 AM, SheungWan said:

"weights and measures". Come back pounds, shillings and pence should be on every Brexiteer banner.

And the farthing and the Guinea and the sovereign and slavery and the Empire and Winston Churchill and WWII.......you cannot go backwards no matter how inviting it might look.

[Grouse]

6 hours ago, Spidey said:

Your links provided no evidence that Africans in the UK were let in by Merkel's policy. In fact, the majority let in by Merkel's policy weren't even African, they were Syrian. Britain opted out of the EU migrant policy, as your link says. Britain also opted out of the Shengen agreement, which allows migrants to cross EU borders on Shengen passports.

 

If you're going to post links, at least post links that support your argument, not counter it.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/immigration-statistics-october-to-december-2017/how-many-people-do-we-grant-asylum-or-protection-to

 

Asylum seekers are a small proportion of UK immigrants

 

The numbers taken by the UK are tiny compared to some other European counties.

 

Brexiters whipping up hysteria a la Farage, the demagogue.

 

In 2017, asylum seekers accounted for 2.3% of total immigration to UK

 

Enough B.S.!

asylum1-oct-dec-2017-tables.ods

[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, Grouse said:

The Chap Manifesto,^[2] which mandates that a chap is to smoke a pipe

I smoke a pipe - a Peterson - acquired at James J. Fox of St. James' St.

Quite a rarity these days. 

Borkum Riff Cherry Cavendish.............

The world would be a much better, more thoughtful place if everyone smoked pipes!

Apart from the pipe-smoking friend I knew who died from cancer of the jaw.

[Kwasaki]

On 2/21/2019 at 5:22 AM, webfact said:

The ministers opposing a no-deal Brexit are considering challenging British Prime Minister Theresa May to fire them if they vote against her in parliament next week

Yeah fire the minority.

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

I attended a grammar school and went on to take a real degree at a Russell Group University.

I sent my my British children to Bedales which is an excellent, if expensive, fee paying school. Very progressive and not at all like Eton or Harrow or Winchester. The school was mixed boarding, very informal with no uniforms and staff referred to by first names. Quite excellent in all respects. Nearly broke me but worth every penny. First class teachers and small class sizes. I recall that every Friday evening they held a "Jaw". A leading light from a profession came to give a talk. Airline pilot, fighter pilot, oncologist, battleship driver etc etc. Pink Floyd came one Friday! Recommended.

To my mind, education is everything. As a parent I was happy to get the best education for my children that I could afford.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedales_School

I see its 12,000 quid a term now ????

I am not sure what you mean by a "real degree at a Russell Group University". The expansion of the UK university system to give an opportunity to middle and working class kids to progress to higher education is one of the jewels in UK education. Add on probably Harold Wilson's most significantly legacy, namely that of the Open University and you have a pretty good system, faults and all. Back in the 1960s, any kid failing their 11+ was odds on done for. Now, a Comprehensive School student stands a chance of taking a degree. Yes, we know the faults, but the opportunity is there. And those who have benefited from a good education might do better showing a little more modesty at times.

[Laughing Gravy]

50 minutes ago, Grouse said:

How many Africans immigrants entered the UK as a direct result of Merkel's largesse?

 

None? Approximately none?

 

It is a fact that EU net migration has dropped like a stone. The most frequent reason for leaving is that EU immigrants are now made to feel unwelcome. That is due to English (specifically) nastiness.

 

Total net migration is STILL 2x to 3x the Tory target 

 

So the number of non EU migrants has risen steeply

 

As so many Brexiters are racist (despite the denials) or Xenophobic or anti muslim bigots like me; it seems moronic that this is the net result.

 

I apologise for keeping you waiting 3 weeks. I will respond.

So you are saying that over 1 million migrants let in due to Merkels open door policy (many see it as a grave underestimation) none came to the UK. I find that hard to believe and the camps in Calais were a result of that.

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/angela-merkel-defends-open-border-migration-refugee-policy-germany/

 

This shows how migration has been over the last 18 years (official figures) Quite good for a BBC article.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2017-40015269

 

Wanting to have regulatory immigration is not racism or xenophobia and a term too often used by others which needs to stop IMHO.

 

I have to say calling someone a moron in Yorkshire from my experience would result in being on the receiving end of a "Yozzer kiss'.

 

[Laughing Gravy]

3 hours ago, hyku1147 said:

Was the UK's entry into the EU properly studied before it was enacted?

I strongly suspect that the maintenance of Her cultural autonomy was never considered.

 

 

Your suspects are true. The UK were lied too. In fact the whole EU project has been based on lies and deceit. Changing treaty names after countriues voted against and then rehashed into different ones. Then pushed through as new. see the pattern here?

 

Here is a good read on what went on and thanks for reminding us how deceitful the EU is, has been and continues to be.

 

http://www.vernoncoleman.com/howthebritishmedia.htm

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnists/article-228953/HOW-FOR-40-YEARS-THE-BRITISH-PUBLIC-HAS-BEEN-LIED-TO--.html

 

What happened in Ireland

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/dec/13/eu-ireland-lisbon-treaty

 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

So you are saying that over 1 million migrants let in due to Merkels open door policy (many see it as a grave underestimation) none came to the UK. I find that hard to believe and the camps in Calais were a result of that.

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/angela-merkel-defends-open-border-migration-refugee-policy-germany/

 

This shows how migration has been over the last 18 years (official figures) Quite good for a BBC article.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2017-40015269

 

Wanting to have regulatory immigration is not racism or xenophobia and a term too often used by others which needs to stop IMHO.

 

I have to say calling someone a moron in Yorkshire from my experience would result in being on the receiving end of a "Yozzer kiss'.

 

“Wanting to have regulatory immigration is not racism or xenophobia and a term too often used by others which needs to stop IMHO.“

 

The UK does have ‘Regulatory’ immigration.

 

I’ll join your calls wrt to the terms ‘racism’ and ‘xenophobia’ being used too often when I see you doing your part to call out the frequent occurrence of racist and xenophobic comments here on TVF.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

I am not sure what you mean by a "real degree at a Russell Group University". The expansion of the UK university system to give an opportunity to middle and working class kids to progress to higher education is one of the jewels in UK education. Add on probably Harold Wilson's most significantly legacy, namely that of the Open University and you have a pretty good system, faults and all. Back in the 1960s, any kid failing their 11+ was odds on done for. Now, a Comprehensive School student stands a chance of taking a degree. Yes, we know the faults, but the opportunity is there. And those who have benefited from a good education might do better showing a little more modesty at times.

 Very well said sir!

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

. Back in the 1960s, any kid failing their 11+ was odds on done for. Now, a Comprehensive School student stands a chance of taking a degree. Yes, we know the faults, but the opportunity is there. And those who have benefited from a good education might do better showing a little more modesty at times.

Now we have a load of thickos with university degrees though .

[melvinmelvin]

5 hours ago, Grouse said:

The Chap Manifesto,^[2] which mandates that a chap is to smoke a pipe

 

I smoke a pipe - a Peterson - acquired at James J. Fox of St. James' St.

 

Quite a rarity these days. 

 

Borkum Riff Cherry Cavendish.............

 

The world would be a much better, more thoughtful place if everyone smoked pipes!

been to Borkum 2-3 times, interesting place.

didna find the denizens particularly thoughtful though

 

 

[simple1]

2 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

So you are saying that over 1 million migrants let in due to Merkels open door policy (many see it as a grave underestimation) none came to the UK. I find that hard to believe and the camps in Calais were a result of that.

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/angela-merkel-defends-open-border-migration-refugee-policy-germany/

 

This shows how migration has been over the last 18 years (official figures) Quite good for a BBC article.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2017-40015269

 

Wanting to have regulatory immigration is not racism or xenophobia and a term too often used by others which needs to stop IMHO.

 

I have to say calling someone a moron in Yorkshire from my experience would result in being on the receiving end of a "Yozzer kiss'.

 

No one is claiming HMG has not admitted asylum seekers / refugees from the EU. An asylum seeker in Germany would be obliged to apply to HMG for refugee status, so far as I'm aware there are no specific figures / reports regards this matter. However, British Red Cross estimates roughly 3% of asylum applications in the EU were lodged in the UK.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/01/britain-one-of-worst-places-western-europe-asylum-seekers

 

How many asylum seekers managed to enter the UK who were based at Calais, I suggest relatively few excepting those granted entry via the Dubs Agreement. Some others have been trafficked into the UK and suffered abuse and exploitation.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/10/why-has-the-uk-ended-its-dubs-child-refugee-scheme

 

in 2016 Merkel apologised for errors made in assessing the situation to waive through the asylum seekers in 2015.

 

“If I could, I would turn back time many, many years to better prepare myself, the federal government and all those in positions of responsibility for the situation we were rather unprepared for in the late summer of 2015,” said Dr Merkel. “No one – including myself – wants a repeat of that situation.”

[Blue Muton]

On 2/21/2019 at 1:00 PM, RichardColeman said:

The rioting in France will be nothing like the rioting if the UK does not leave the EU after a democratic vote.

How can a campaign mired so deeply in electoral fraud be considered democratic?

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, SheungWan said:

I am not sure what you mean by a "real degree at a Russell Group University". The expansion of the UK university system to give an opportunity to middle and working class kids to progress to higher education is one of the jewels in UK education. Add on probably Harold Wilson's most significantly legacy, namely that of the Open University and you have a pretty good system, faults and all. Back in the 1960s, any kid failing their 11+ was odds on done for. Now, a Comprehensive School student stands a chance of taking a degree. Yes, we know the faults, but the opportunity is there. And those who have benefited from a good education might do better showing a little more modesty at times.

The point I was trying to make, obviously unsuccessfully, was that it is possible to get to a decent university without having a public school education

 

Universities do differ quite dramatically and sadly it is no longer enough to have a degree, it now matters which institution awarded it.

 

There was nothing wrong with polytechnics and nothing wrong with HNCs and HNDs

 

My reference to a real degree was me taking a pop at "easy" degrees such as, well you know, fill in the blanks. Real degrees such as engineering, sciences, professions are hard. Seriously.

 

I abhor the dumbing down of everything. If that's elitist; so be it.

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

So you are saying that over 1 million migrants let in due to Merkels open door policy (many see it as a grave underestimation) none came to the UK. I find that hard to believe and the camps in Calais were a result of that.

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/angela-merkel-defends-open-border-migration-refugee-policy-germany/

 

This shows how migration has been over the last 18 years (official figures) Quite good for a BBC article.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2017-40015269

 

Wanting to have regulatory immigration is not racism or xenophobia and a term too often used by others which needs to stop IMHO.

 

I have to say calling someone a moron in Yorkshire from my experience would result in being on the receiving end of a "Yozzer kiss'.

 

Then read the attachments with the exact figures. THEN respond

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, melvinmelvin said:

been to Borkum 2-3 times, interesting place.

didna find the denizens particularly thoughtful though

 

 

I didn't even know there was such a place!

 

The tobacco is made in Denmark for The Swedish Tobacco Company.

 

They used to advertise it as "What Swedish women like about Swedish men"

 

Lying bastards! Never worked for me......

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, SheungWan said:

I am not sure what you mean by a "real degree at a Russell Group University". The expansion of the UK university system to give an opportunity to middle and working class kids to progress to higher education is one of the jewels in UK education. Add on probably Harold Wilson's most significantly legacy, namely that of the Open University and you have a pretty good system, faults and all. Back in the 1960s, any kid failing their 11+ was odds on done for. Now, a Comprehensive School student stands a chance of taking a degree. Yes, we know the faults, but the opportunity is there. And those who have benefited from a good education might do better showing a little more modesty at times.

Modesty? I never remove my trousers in public!

 

Seriously, the continual anti-intellectual chants have become boring. It is my strong belief that education is key and worth striving for. Frankly, if that comes across as immodesty; I don't give a damn.

[billd766]

3 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

So you are saying that over 1 million migrants let in due to Merkels open door policy (many see it as a grave underestimation) none came to the UK. I find that hard to believe and the camps in Calais were a result of that.

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/angela-merkel-defends-open-border-migration-refugee-policy-germany/

 

This shows how migration has been over the last 18 years (official figures) Quite good for a BBC article.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2017-40015269

 

Wanting to have regulatory immigration is not racism or xenophobia and a term too often used by others which needs to stop IMHO.

 

I have to say calling someone a moron in Yorkshire from my experience would result in being on the receiving end of a "Yozzer kiss'.

 

I found this on the BBC News website.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-kent-47214914

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-england-kent-45101250/english-channel-migrant-smuggling-gang-caught-on-camera

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-38961372

[melvinmelvin]

27 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I didn't even know there was such a place!

 

The tobacco is made in Denmark for The Swedish Tobacco Company.

 

They used to advertise it as "What Swedish women like about Swedish men"

 

Lying bastards! Never worked for me......

Island in North West Germany

tax free haven

 

within reasonably easy reach by sailing from Norway (if you are fanatic/keen like me)

tough to get back home though with severe hangovers

 

excellent place for partying and reflecting over Brexit