Exit Planning and Survival Strategies if leaving Thailand

[RAZZELL]

Right let me get this straight...

 

Despite this new fangled thing called "the internet" and "google" the OP is unable to find the very basics of what are required to stay here longer than a few months?

 

And then blames Thailand for their own Visa regulations which he failed to adhere too? 

 

Ok...????

 

RAZZ

[OneMoreFarang]

29 minutes ago, glegolo said:

I am not so sure that you really are a retired law enforcement officer. Not at least an officer, merely a footboy of some kind. What about gather information, get organized, and learn the process?

 

Thousands and thousands of expats do this more or less everyday, and YOU failed miserable... You did "buy" your way out you thought, but instead what you did, was to neglect to learn the laws and rules, and tried a shortcut called 30.000 baht....

 

To put the blame on Thailand is for some people rather typical, these kind of humans will never learn, they will repeat it until their dying days. 

 

glegolo

The way I read his comments he hired an agent to take care of the documents.

I think there is nothing wrong with hiring an agent - if that agent works under the legal rules.

A long time ago I did lots of visa runs and I always used an agent. I could have done it myself and if fact I did it a few times myself. But if everything is professionally organized that just better. And if an immigration officer asks questions, the agent is nearby to make sure there are no misunderstandings.

I think most of us know that the regulations here are often very flexible. I.e. the 20,000B in the pocket for visitors is sometimes for some people a problem, others are never asked. And in such a situation it's for sure helpful to have your trusted agent near you.

 

Learning Thai laws is not good enough because they constantly are differently interpreted. What was ok yesterday might not be ok tomorrow but ok again in a week.

And it's also obvious that there is a lot of misinformation out there, including on TV.

Yes, the OP could have acted smarter. But I think he wasn't stupider than many others - he just admitted what he did and he learned from it. Maybe some others will also learn from his story.

[glegolo]

3 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

The way I read his comments he hired an agent to take care of the documents.

I think there is nothing wrong with hiring an agent - if that agent works under the legal rules. he just admitted what he did and he learned from it. Maybe some others will also learn from his story.

"He learned from it"..... How did he learn from it? By moving away more or less telling people this is not a country for retirement. I certainly not at all see this guy learn from anything here. He was just trying to make his point. That is why I posted the way I did in the first place.

 

glegolo

 

[OneMoreFarang]

14 minutes ago, glegolo said:

"He learned from it"..... How did he learn from it? By moving away more or less telling people this is not a country for retirement. I certainly not at all see this guy learn from anything here. He was just trying to make his point. That is why I posted the way I did in the first place.

 

glegolo

The way I see it he learned that he can't be sure he will be able to stay legally in Thailand without hassle for the next years. And it seems a couple of people feel the heat in the moment about immigration and visa rules.

Personally I think it's better to recognize if the situation is bad and might become worse and act before it gets worse.

I can't imagine how some people will feel who thought they go for a 1 day visa run only to find out they get no entry anymore. That must be pretty bad - especially for those who spent years in this country.

 

It seems many TV members have this attitude: It wont happen to me. This might be about a visa or about no health insurance or whatever. But probably some of them will learn the hard way: it can happen to you...

Good luck to everybody that bad things won't happen to us...

[soalbundy]

On 2/22/2019 at 5:48 AM, Gecko123 said:

I think some of the biggest hurdles a returning expat has to overcome are psychological. Fears of being seen as a failure, fears of being snickered about because a marriage didn't work out, fears of being confronted with the possibility that your standard of living might be lower than it was when you left, fears of not being welcomed back into your family or the circle of friends you had before you left. People need to sort these types of fears out and acknowledge them both to themselves and others.

 

As an example, whenever I've contemplated moving back home, I realized that one of my biggest fears was a loss of stature if I rented an apartment when most of my siblings and friends now own their homes. I felt I would need to buy a house immediately in order to put to rest any behind-the-back snickering about my financial condition. But I've come to realize that I need to get over this fear in order to avoid rushing into a home purchase I might later regret. This is an example of a fear which you need to identify and grapple with in order to avoid it impairing your judgment and decision making process.

Ah, the ego raising it's ugly head. Never believe what your mind tells you, it is usually wrong. You should live according to what you think is right (although apart from genetic dispositions, nurture and social indoctrination there is no you)

[glegolo]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

The way I see it he learned that he can't be sure he will be able to stay legally in Thailand without hassle for the next years. And it seems a couple of people feel the heat in the moment about immigration and visa rules.

Personally I think it's better to recognize if the situation is bad and might become worse and act before it gets worse.

I can't imagine how some people will feel who thought they go for a 1 day visa run only to find out they get no entry anymore. That must be pretty bad - especially for those who spent years in this country.

 

It seems many TV members have this attitude: It wont happen to me. This might be about a visa or about no health insurance or whatever. But probably some of them will learn the hard way: it can happen to you...

Good luck to everybody that bad things won't happen to us...

I just dont think you "get it".. Learn from "it" doesn´t mean you run away from "it", you actually learn from "it", by educate yourself and act accordingly... That is how you learn from "it"...

 

glegolo

[onera1961]

On 2/21/2019 at 10:42 PM, BritManToo said:

My pension may not be large, but it arrives every month and is more than 90% of locals in SEA earn.

Why it is even relevant? Does it mean one must get higher privilege than the locals because their pension is more than 90% of locals?

[onera1961]

On 2/24/2019 at 8:56 AM, CaptainJack said:

I am working on a legal (not lying to travel insurance companies I'm traveling when in fact I'm living there) and that will be settled this week.

Did you settle on this one? Can you elaborate on this? This helps lots of people in Thailand with no insurance. 

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, glegolo said:

I just dont think you "get it".. Learn from "it" doesn´t mean you run away from "it", you actually learn from "it", by educate yourself and act accordingly... That is how you learn from "it"...

 

glegolo

Let's say you are married and after a while you find out that your wife is different from what you thought she would be.

Do you tell yourself: I should have found out before I married her. But now I stay with her.

Or is your consequence: I made a mistake. This is not what I want. And get divorced before it gets worse.

[onera1961]

On 2/24/2019 at 8:56 AM, CaptainJack said:

He is a United States FBI trained graduate and knows exactly what he is doing and how to bring down  criminal organizations. 

Ok, I don't think it is American mafia or Pablo Escobars or El Chapo. These are agents bribing TIs to allow desperate farangs to stay here when they don't meet financial requirements. Nothing more. By bringing down these people, nothing great will be achieved. And if he wants to really root out corruption, he should listen to foreign investors. Investors never complain that they cannot send their experts because of corruption in immigration. They complain corruption in places that prevent them to invest more. 

[glegolo]

50 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Let's say you are married and after a while you find out that your wife is different from what you thought she would be.

Do you tell yourself: I should have found out before I married her. But now I stay with her.

Or is your consequence: I made a mistake. This is not what I want. And get divorced before it gets worse.

hahahaha you are unbelievable really... Compare the Immigration-rules with a marriage..... I have been here 11 years and I did learn the process here via amongst other just this Thai-VISA forum.

 

Based on that, I could after 1 year master how to fish for information, plus do the process myself and manage on my own without either using an agent nor running away from it as soon as the wind  blows against me...

 

Happy marriage to you.

glegolo

[JackThompson]

On 2/23/2019 at 2:46 AM, Thainess said:

Let's face it - the reason most middle-aged western males are living in Thailand is because they are oddbods and/or failures in the home country and just can't compete with the average male in their country, and can't get a woman to even look at them back home, because western women are smart enough to smell a man who's a failure or has serious issues a mile off.

The main problem is not hooking up with women there - which is not difficult - it is how the women think there - about men, about their role in a relationship, etc. 

 

On 2/23/2019 at 2:46 AM, Thainess said:

they even get some attention from women, even if the reason is that it's because they are uneducated women who assume "falangs have money" or that they can "escape from Thailand to a better life in the USA, Europe, etc."

Filipinas tend to want to "move to your country" - but not so often with Thai women. 

 

Thai women (all women) can tell which men have money pretty quickly.  Those who are just after money go after wealthy men, and are - surprise, surprise - usually treated like women who sleep with men for money.  Others look for a man who will treat them with respect.  Of course no woman sticks with a "bum" who has NO money, because a man's role in a traditional relationship (still possible in Thailand) is to provide for at least the basics. 

 

On 2/23/2019 at 2:46 AM, Thainess said:

so they crawl back again to their country and lick their wounds, feeling more of a failure than ever. Very sad, but all too common among the type of failed ex-pats who come to SE Asia fooling themselves that they're somehow "living the dream in Thailand" whereas in fact most of them continue to be miserable, and often severe alcoholics or drug abusers, even in the "paradise" of Thailand...

Those with substance-abuse problems won't be 'cured' by moving, obviously.  Where ever you go, your brain/baggage doesn't magically vanish.

 

As to those who are even moderately stable, why they would go "back to their country" I do not understand.  If they have any income, they can have a much better standard of living in SE Asia (many choices) or Latin America.

[JackThompson]

On 2/24/2019 at 9:56 PM, CaptainJack said:

I'm saying this again so everyone knows, I am a dumb*ss. The IO looks at my passport,  the visa stamp, and tells me, "your in violation of your visa, you have not reported your charge of address ". I'm totally confused,  she keeps telling me I am three months overdue,  and my visa is invalid.   

No, your "visa" (extension) is not invalid, and at most there is a fine for not reporting a "Change Of Address" from Chonburi to Bangkok. 

 

Quote

What! I've done everything right, i have been transferring several thousand dollars a month into my Thai bank account,  and I'm trying to tell her, I have not moved, I've been at the same place for 3 months. She goes and gets another IO who speaks better English, and she finally explains to me what the problem is.  I have a stamp from the Chun Buri immigration office, not Bkk, and I have an address listed in Chun Buri.  What! I've never lived in Chun Buri I tell her.

I realize you never lived in Chonburi, but that is the extent of your "violation."  All that was needed was to file a TM-28 (maybe TM-30 also) and pay the fine for doing it late.

 

Quote

I'm totally confused,  she actually got it that I had no clue, and looked me straight in the eyes and said, "did you use a visa company"?. Yes, of course I did. I paid to have my visa application expited and handled by a professional company. 

So she takes the time to explain to me what has happened,  then tells me my viss can be cancelled, I can be arrested and deported. 

You cannot imagine the terror that ran down my spine.  She took mercy on me, and it was early enough in the new immigration world, she was probably happy to have me pay a bunch of fines.

They were angry that you used an agent who pays the IOs at Chonburi vs Bangkok.  The agent-system is done like Multi-Level-Marketing, where the money is passed up the chain, starting with the local-office.  By using an agent in Chonburi, the IOs at that office (and the district-office) were cut out of the money-chain.

 

BTW, the agent-cost for a retirement-extension skipping all financials in Chonburi starts at 12.5K Baht, so the rest went into your middleman-agent's pocket.  For 25K Baht, an agent who pays-off the IOs Chang Wattana could have done it, and the staff at that office would have been absolutely delighted.

 

Quote

So, it was fill out the correct forms, plus my landlord doing a TM30, pay a bunch of fines, and she would fix it.  I did what she said and true to her word, she did update my address and approve my 90 day check in.

 

Oh, she wanted the visa company information,  and I gave her both phone numbers.  She called them and they were disconnected. 

Yes, operating "out of their area" makes problems.  One office (Chiang Mai) has been reported as refusing to do TM-28s (report of moving your address), to discourage folks using cheaper agents out of their area.

 

Quote

She went on to explain to me about the corruption and bribery,  and that they were just starting a new program to put a stop to the corruption,  arrest and prosecute the visa companies and eventually start deporting expats with illegal immigration papers.  

I would not hold my breath - millions upon millions of baht at stake supporting countless IO's lifestyles - from the bottom on up.

 

Quote

I thought I had, and I had, dodged a bullet.   That was September 22nd.

I thought everything was going to be okay,  until December 22nd, my second 90 day report,  and that IO started in on why did I have a Chun Buri stamp?

Reply: "I originally got my extension from there, but took care of changing my address with you when doing my last 90-day report." 

From there, he could check your TM-30, see the TM-28 in the system, etc.

 

Quote

That was it for me.  Agter discovering TV, reading what the system is really like in Thailand,  the new head of immigration and his background,  the end of Embassy letters and the possibility this could come back to haunt me, I had enough.  

I agree that using an agent is not recommended, as you never know if one will be hung out to dry as an "example" that they are "really cracking down on corruption" (this time). 

 

But, you needn't have left.  You could even get a Non-OA Visa from a Thai Consulate in the USA, and use that for up to 2 years, before ever having to apply for an extension in Thailand.  That is 100% legal, and corruption-free.  If you really miss your GF, you could still do this. 

 

I use Visas to avoid dealing with all the corruption at immigration, having had my own set of bad experiences with them, and also not wanting to wallow in the mire of bribes and such.

 

You know the corruption in Latin America is legendary - yes?  Though usually more affordable and easier to "work out" directly with whatever official (helps if you speak Spanish).

[JackThompson]

5 hours ago, onera1961 said:

On 2/22/2019 at 11:42 AM, BritManToo said:

My pension may not be large, but it arrives every month and is more than 90% of locals in SEA earn.

Why it is even relevant? Does it mean one must get higher privilege than the locals because their pension is more than 90% of locals?

It means you have well-enough more money to support yourself, your spending is good for the locals around you, and a govt preventing your staying to spend that money into a local community is idiotic.  Contrast to someone with far less money than the locals, who is much more likely to be a financial-burden to the community/govt.

 

If immigration were working as part of a government whose goal is to maximize the well-being of the Thai people, they would prevent foreigners entering who are likely to be a financial-burden (no welfare here, but can exert downward pressure on wages and job-opportunities) and encourage as many as possible who have more income (foreign-sourced) than the locals.

 

4 hours ago, onera1961 said:

Ok, I don't think it is American mafia or Pablo Escobars or El Chapo. These are agents bribing TIs to allow desperate farangs to stay here when they don't meet financial requirements. Nothing more. By bringing down these people, nothing great will be achieved. And if he wants to really root out corruption, he should listen to foreign investors. Investors never complain that they cannot send their experts because of corruption in immigration. They complain corruption in places that prevent them to invest more. 

Agree on the investor-angle.  But the agent-problem leads to immigration giving a hard-time to honest, qualified applicants, which drives many expats away and takes money out of the legitimate-market economy into the black (agent-fee) market from those who stay.  Both of these harm Thai businesses and their employees who benefit from expat spending.

[onera1961]

14 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

If immigration were working as part of a government whose goal is to maximize the well-being of the Thai people, they would prevent foreigners entering who are likely to be a financial-burden (no welfare here, but can exert downward pressure on wages and job-opportunities) and encourage as many as possible who have more income (foreign-sourced) than the locals.

 

Bringing foreign sourced income may strengthen baht and that will reduce export (65% of the economy vs 17% for entire Tourism), resulting in lots of job losses and people's pension and Social Security of the future. It is a dangerous proposal for country that does not need any foreign currency. may be it was ok a decade ago when one could get 40BHT/USD. 

 

[JackThompson]

18 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

Bringing foreign sourced income may strengthen baht and that will reduce export (65% of the economy vs 17% for entire Tourism), resulting in lots of job losses and people's pension and Social Security of the future. It is a dangerous proposal for country that does not need any foreign currency. may be it was ok a decade ago when one could get 40BHT/USD.

Agree with the result of stronger currency on trade, but it's when the opposite occurs that you get a catastrophe.  Forcing expats to hold money in the banks longer also strengthens the currency.  For some reason, TPTB want a stronger Baht - I do not know why, but they could easily reverse this condition via printing-money for spending on social-services, dams, roads, etc. 

[onera1961]

38 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Forcing expats to hold money in the banks longer also strengthens the currency. 

Yes it does. I am not saying immigration has thought through the entire economic impact excessive tourists and foreign retirees in Thailand. In Thailand every department does its own things. TAT wants to tout their numbers without realizing what is happening to the baht. Bottom line is that no export based Industrialized country like Thailand has reached economic growth inviting foreign retirees. It may time for its neighboring country to do that. Thailand should focus to improve its growth on export and tighten cheap retirement heaven and make it more expensive like Malaysia.

[onera1961]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

printing-money for spending on social-services, dams, roads, etc. 

Printing money will cause inflation and there is no shortage of investors to invest on roads, dams, etc if it makes economic sense. For government to do it, it needs revenue and less spending on Military. May be higher taxes to generate revenues for investing in infrastructures is required. Inviting foreigners with foreign sourced income is not a panacea for economic growth for a country like Thailand. No industrialized export based country in the World has done that I don't think Thailand has world class economist who can create a new model that will make it possible.

 

I don't know who wants stronger baht except importers. Do you have an article that says who are these people? Exporters (65% of the economy) want weaker baht and pounding the central bank to intervene. But central bank is afraid to so. It is not only the fear of US, other countries also can impose tariffs if central bank intervenes to keep a 100% floating Baht weak by currency manipulation. 

Thailand has few choices now. Improve its labor productivity, go back to pegged currency like pre Asian crisis, or wait for Chinese recession.

 

[JackThompson]

20 hours ago, onera1961 said:

. Inviting foreigners with foreign sourced income is not a panacea for economic growth for a country like Thailand.

I would never claim expat-spending was a solution for the entire Thai economy - but every one of us spending foreign-sourced revenue into the economy is creating Thai jobs.  To the extent our money is pushing the Baht higher, I explained how that can be fixed - obviously limited enough to to cause rampant inflation (printing too much).  If not for "L-A" Visas and illegal workers, Thai salaries would be much higher across the lower-end of the spectrum - and while we expats can never exhaust the endless supply of "will work cheaper" foreign workers, each one of us still makes a huge difference to the Thais who benefit directly from our spending.

[onera1961]

58 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Thai economy - but every one of us spending foreign-sourced revenue into the economy is creating Thai jobs. 

At some point in economic growth, it may be. But looking at other sources of foreign income, now it is detrimental to the economy. What you're saying is a simplistic view of a layman. Not an economic prospective. 
 

 

58 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I explained how that can be fixed

Building roads and dams (infrastructure spending) does not fix foreign currency problem. They still have to spend it in Baht and government needs revenue for that (or money in baht) or higher tax (it is a separate subject). Foreign currency in not revenue for government. Central bank receives foreign currency and gives baht. No real revenue is generated for government. 

That's the reason in most countries keep government and central bank separate. Government can borrow by asking central bank to print more currency  but that risks inflation. Even giving dollar for free won't fix it. It will just increase inflation enormously.

Only way to fix it is to import more. Military hardware import is one way. But that does not create lasting growth in a economy. Another way to fix it is to decrease interest rate. Excessive decrease in interest rate also affects future pensions growth and feeds into further investment of foreign currency in bonds and stocks. All these parts are interrelated and it is not as simple as as one might think. 

Another way to fix it is to create demand for imported goods. When you destroy jobs in formal economy (export economy) by bringing foreign sourced income, how are you going to achieve that.

 

You have to reduce the demand for baht. By bringing dollar from outside, you just increase the demand for baht. 

 

Thailand already has a constant source of foreign currency and that is tourism. Thailand is not a huge economy like India, China, or EU based Europe. it must recognize that it does not need to accumulate any more foreign currency and by doing so, it can destroy its formal export sector. 

Again bottom line Thailand does not need any more foreign sourced income from retirees or perpetual tourists. In the long run, it will have detrimental effects on its formal export economy, destroying lives of thousands and robbing them of their future pension. Lots of educated Thais have started to realize this truth (discussions in Facebook). Even if Chinese tourists decrease due to a recession in China, India does not seem to have any economic problems in the next decade or so. So, there is no problem of reduced foreign sourced money in the future from tourism.

 

 

 

 

[tingtongtourist]

On 2/26/2019 at 10:19 PM, JackThompson said:

Agree with the result of stronger currency on trade, but it's when the opposite occurs that you get a catastrophe.  Forcing expats to hold money in the banks longer also strengthens the currency.  For some reason, TPTB want a stronger Baht - I do not know why, but they could easily reverse this condition via printing-money for spending on social-services, dams, roads, etc. 

oh yeah, cos printing money willy-nilly worked so good for America

lol

they led the whole world into lowering interest rates to ZERO

which started the biggest income shift of all time, stealing off older generation (investors) all going into the pockets of wealthy and financial institutions.

 

and *(bonus) at the same time causing crippling personal debt from getting people addicted to cheap credit.

working slaves.

 

yeah good one.555

 

So now 'Merica cannot (and never will) even be able to print enough money to service its massive debt.

555

i think for all the crap people put on Thailand, its financials are pretty solid compared to others

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, tingtongtourist said:

oh yeah, cos printing money willy-nilly worked so good for America

lol

they led the whole world into lowering interest rates to ZERO

which started the biggest income shift of all time, stealing off older generation (investors) all going into the pockets of wealthy and financial institutions.

 

and *(bonus) at the same time causing crippling personal debt from getting people addicted to cheap credit.

working slaves.

 

yeah good one.555

 

So now 'Merica cannot (and never will) even be able to print enough money to service its massive debt.

555

i think for all the crap people put on Thailand, its financials are pretty solid compared to others

The USD is propped up by being the "world reserve currency," owing to the fact that those who don't buy oil with it face sanctions or military consequences.  I am not defending this policy - but to compare other national-currencies to the USD doesn't work, because of this aspect of the USD.

 

Some, carefully-regulated additional money printing could help devalue an Overly Strong currency.  Obviously, following the lead of Zimbawe, until Bahts are equal to a Lao-Kip or worse, is not the goal, and printing to that extent would be idiotic.

 

Maybe Thailand are driving up the Baht, as a wind-up to pay off some IMF/WB loans, as those are usually denominated in dollars?  Just a wild guess.

[CaptainJack]

Good Morning, 

 

I've been super busy and not had a chance to check in.  Couple of quick thoughts.

 

Once again, I cannot state strongly enough badly I messed up by not planning, knowing or understanding what I was doing deciding go retire in Thailand. 

 

When I finally understood the visa agent deposited 800k baht into my checking and withdrew it the next day, I was then totally confused.  Duh! It was not until three months later, the scare at immigration and my resulting "education", did I start to really understand the immigration system in Thailand. Wow! I think I was truly in La La land for three months  

 

This was a perfect storm for me.  One of the main ssues that raised it's ugly head, was as I was starting to work on getting the 65k every month deposited and try to work on the medical insurance issue, was I found out that do do my extension, I needed to produce my previous bankbook and all the other supporting financial documents. 

 

There was no way I'd be able to conceal the obvious fraud committed by the visa company.  At that point, It was truly in my best interest to leave.  There was no way I was going to risk getting caught.  It has been a tough lesson, but, I have learned. I guess for what it is worth, the idea I could be detained,  arrested and deported was just more then I was willing to risk to be in Thailand,  on the other side of the planet from home.

 

Anyway,  for what it is worth,  I could wait until my current retirement visa expires the end of September and fly back on a visa exemption stamp, or get a 90 tourit visa or other legal method and start all over.

 

I'm not going to try again,  because for me, my love of Thailand does not balance out all the ongoing hassle and what the medical insurance would cost at age 67.  

 

I checked in today, this probably my last time to report in that I have done the research,  know what type of visas are required,  how much money I'll need, how to manage the medical insurance issue to go and take six months on the coast of Mexico to check out living there.  I'll be leaving after the needed rest and recovery here in the USA for the coast of Mexico,  where I will have in hand my six month multiple entry tourist visa.  I have rented a short term rental and have appointments to look at furnished one bedroom apartments that run around 350 USD a month.  Everything is walking distance,  there is Uber and I am a 7 hour flight back to the USA if I need major medical attention. 

 

My plans are check out on 10 day trips Panama and Costa Rico. Maybe I'll like living in Mexico.   As a child, we were there a lot and as an adult I've taken a hundred vacations there.

 

I started this topic not in the best of moods, and blamed Thailand and others, but the responsibility was mine.  I know that. 

 

I do have one suggestion for a strategic perspective if an expatriate here finds himself up against a wall.  It's this.  Quit going it alone.  Reach out to each other and meet.  Combine resources and work together.   Alone, we each can be overwhelmed,  both emotionally and realistically.  You are stronger together working as a team then alone. 

 

Good luck.  Sorry my topic was not well thought out or presented.   I hope you all find away to keep the LOS yours.  But if not, all I ask is you leave on your terms, not theres.

 

Cheers.....

 

CJ

[Cryingdick]

 

On 2/21/2019 at 5:48 PM, Gecko123 said:

I think some of the biggest hurdles a returning expat has to overcome are psychological. Fears of being seen as a failure, fears of being snickered about because a marriage didn't work out, fears of being confronted with the possibility that your standard of living might be lower than it was when you left, fears of not being welcomed back into your family or the circle of friends you had before you left. People need to sort these types of fears out and acknowledge them both to themselves and others.

 

As an example, whenever I've contemplated moving back home, I realized that one of my biggest fears was a loss of stature if I rented an apartment when most of my siblings and friends now own their homes. I felt I would need to buy a house immediately in order to put to rest any behind-the-back snickering about my financial condition. But I've come to realize that I need to get over this fear in order to avoid rushing into a home purchase I might later regret. This is an example of a fear which you need to identify and grapple with in order to avoid it impairing your judgment and decision making process.

 

No that is a secondary problem is denying it. The biggest problem for most is you actually have become a deadbeat loser.  If you do not own your own home and have a car you are going to be the under class and live at or likely under the poverty level.

 

The places you can get away with out a car are so unaffordable that you won't find a house under $300k I am not talking west coast but places like even Minneapolis. The transport is just so so but you need a car. You will also need health insurance medical costs have skyrocketed since I came home. Buyers living in expensive places have pushed up the prices even in smaller cities like Des Moines, Charlotte, Nashville, Roanoke etc. 

 

These are smaller pretty desirable places but with the internet no stone has been left unturned and prices are unreasonable.

 

 

If repatriating to the USA make sure to have $100,000. That's about what it cost me to find an area with an economy that you can also find something to live in. If you are going to pay rent forget about it. If you are a liberal that is intolerant of other political views make that $300,000 minimum.

 

If you want to settle on the west coast prices will be much higher and you probably need more like one million bucks. It isn't much different on the east coast but assume many people on TV want to avoid the cold. 

 

There is a long running thread about budget locations in the USA in the home forum section. If you require certain politics to be part of your criteria you aren't going to find much. 

 

I think for a good amount of people that have squandered their money because Thailand was such a good deal they are simply better off staying in Thailand. You can always shuffle off to Cambodia or the Philippines later. 

 

 

[Cryingdick]

On 2/21/2019 at 7:35 PM, simon43 said:

Good comments from Gecko123.  Having virtually lived 'out of a suitcase' for many years (I was only allowed to live in a hotel room in Naypyitaw - no renting a house etc), I possess the minimum of furniture, personal goods etc.  So physically moving from country to country would not be a major issue for me.  (I do have my radio amateur transmitters, which always causes consternation at Customs, but I have the necessary Thai and Burmese paperwork that has allowed me to get this equipment into/out of the country without arrest so far!).

 

The development of online banking, mobile phone apps etc has really made it much easier to move between countries, and still have access to one's bank accounts, music and news media etc.  Just think back to the days when you had to transport your home entertainment system, loudspeakers, open a new bank account etc etc when moving to a new location.  (Example - I still receive funds into my bank account in Myanmar, even though I don't live in the country now - I just use the bank's mobile app to check my balance and then withdraw the funds from an ATM machine in Thailand).

 

I am not sure that banking set up would make me sleep well.

[Gecko123]

@Cryingdick

I agree that it is important to make an apples-to-apples comparison between what your life's like in Thailand today vs what it would be like if you returned home tomorrow (not based on some fond memory of what your life was like when you left a couple of decades ago.) Fortunately, with the help of U-tube videos, Zillow real estate, chat forums, and Google maps, there is no shortage of tools and information available to help you make an informed decision based on what's best for you.

 

I believe the US housing market has been grossly distorted by quantitative easing by the Fed. Low interest rates have driven stock and housing prices higher because there's been essentially no where else to put capital. Higher stock prices have added further fuel to the housing bubble by generating paper wealth which contributes to higher housing prices. Because what the Fed has done with interest rates since 2008 was so unprecedented, anyone who left the country prior to the early 2000's could be forgiven for not anticipating that US housing prices might become as unaffordable in the interim as they have become. I don't believe that these prices are sustainable, and that there is a good possibility that the US housing market is ripe for a major correction, which would be a welcome adjustment for US expats considering repatriation.

 

[Cryingdick]

17 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

@Cryingdick

I agree that it is important to make an apples-to-apples comparison between what your life's like in Thailand today vs what it would be like if you returned home tomorrow (not based on some fond memory of what your life was like when you left a couple of decades ago.) Fortunately, with the help of U-tube videos, Zillow real estate, chat forums, and Google maps, there is no shortage of tools and information available to help you make an informed decision based on what's best for you.

 

I believe the US housing market has been grossly distorted by quantitative easing by the Fed. Low interest rates have driven stock and housing prices higher because there's been essentially no where else to put capital. Higher stock prices have added further fuel to the housing bubble by generating paper wealth which contributes to higher housing prices. Because what the Fed has done with interest rates since 2008 was so unprecedented, anyone who left the country prior to the early 2000's could be forgiven for not anticipating that US housing prices might become as unaffordable in the interim as they have become. I don't believe that these prices are sustainable, and that there is a good possibility that the US housing market is ripe for a major correction, which would be a welcome adjustment for US expats considering repatriation.

 

 

It is pretty obvious that housing prices will crash sooner rather than later in the most expensive locations. Taxes are climbing and people are leaving. The problem is the mere mortal trying to escape it is already priced out in most mid-market cities now. 

 

 

[Gecko123]

 

38 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

It is pretty obvious that housing prices will crash sooner rather than later in the most expensive locations. Taxes are climbing and people are leaving. The problem is the mere mortal trying to escape it is already priced out in most mid-market cities now.

I've been looking here and there on the West Coast at areas outside of large cities and surrounding bedroom communities. Just for fun I looked at under 100K in California. Here are some examples I found. Kind of reminds me of some houses in Thailand:

 

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/CA/fsba,fsbo_lt/pmf,pf_pt/house_type/18889499_zpid/9_rid/2-_beds/0-100000_price/0-394_mp/globalrelevanceex_sort/45.352145,-101.557618,28.555576,-137.021485_rect/4_zm/

$69,000 foreclosure, Bakersfield, CA:

 

 

www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Redding-CA/fsba,fsbo_lt/pmf,pf_pt/house_type/119598819_zpid/47322_rid/2-_beds/0-100000_price/0-394_mp/globalrelevanceex_sort/49.368066,-108.544922,33.632915,-144.00879_rect/4_zm/

 

$49,900, mobile home for sale by owner, Redding, CA

 

 

 

[Cryingdick]

5 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

 

I've been looking here and there on the West Coast at areas outside of large cities and surrounding bedroom communities. Just for fun I looked at under 100K in California. Here are some examples I found. Kind of reminds me of some houses in Thailand:

 

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/CA/fsba,fsbo_lt/pmf,pf_pt/house_type/18889499_zpid/9_rid/2-_beds/0-100000_price/0-394_mp/globalrelevanceex_sort/45.352145,-101.557618,28.555576,-137.021485_rect/4_zm/

$69,000 foreclosure, Bakersfield, CA:

 

 

www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Redding-CA/fsba,fsbo_lt/pmf,pf_pt/house_type/119598819_zpid/47322_rid/2-_beds/0-100000_price/0-394_mp/globalrelevanceex_sort/49.368066,-108.544922,33.632915,-144.00879_rect/4_zm/

 

$49,900, mobile home for sale by owner, Redding, CA

 

 

 

 

With the laws of Cali you have a $500K project. It will probably cost $3,000 just to take the tree down and grind the stump.

[bkk6060]

On 2/22/2019 at 5:48 AM, Gecko123 said:

I think some of the biggest hurdles a returning expat has to overcome are psychological. Fears of being seen as a failure, fears of being snickered about because a marriage didn't work out, fears of being confronted with the possibility that your standard of living might be lower than it was when you left, fears of not being welcomed back into your family or the circle of friends you had before you left. People need to sort these types of fears out and acknowledge them both to themselves and others.

 

 

My biggest fear is that I would have to have sex with 65 year old women.  The disgusting thought of that alone motivates me to stay/remain in Thailand...