Not there yet but closer: Britain and EU haggle over Brexit compromise

[webfact]

Not there yet but closer: Britain and EU haggle over Brexit compromise

By Kylie MacLellan and Gabriela Baczynska

 

Britain's Chancellor of the Exchequer Philip Hammond is seen outside of Downing Street in London, Britain, February 19, 2019. REUTERS/Peter Nicholls

 

LONDON/BRUSSELS (Reuters) - Britain and the European Union on Thursday played down the chances of clinching an immediate Brexit divorce deal but diplomats said they were edging closer to a legal compromise that Prime Minister Theresa May hopes will win over the British parliament.

 

May is trying to get changes to the divorce package before putting it to another vote in parliament. If she fails, May will have to decide whether to delay Brexit or endanger the world's fifth largest economy by leaving without a deal on March 29.

 

May's finance minister, Philip Hammond, raised hopes that a revised deal was on the cards by saying lawmakers could get an opportunity as early as next week to vote on a revised deal.

 

But within hours of his comments, a British government source, speaking on condition of anonymity, played down the likelihood of a deal within days.

"It doesn't feel like we will have a deal by next week," the source said.

 

May's biggest problem is the so-called Irish backstop, an insurance policy to keep the border open between the British province of Northern Ireland and EU member Ireland if a future trade deal falls short after Brexit.

 

Parliament instructed her to replace the backstop by reopening the Withdrawal Agreement, but the EU ruled that out.

 

Britain's Brexit ministry said after talks in Brussels on Thursday that negotiations were now focused on getting new guarantees on the temporary nature of the Irish backstop.

 

In a statement after Brexit Secretary Stephen Barclay and Attorney General Geoffrey Cox met EU negotiator Michel Barnier, the ministry gave a clear indication that May was no longer pushing to reopen the Withdrawal Agreement, even if that remained the government's preferred option.

 

"The simplest way to get legally binding changes on the backstop is to reopen the Withdrawal Agreement. That remains the Government's position," the ministry said.

 

But, referring to talks on Wednesday between May and European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker, it said the two leaders "agreed that work would now focus on guarantees relating to the backstop that underline once again its temporary nature and give appropriate legal assurance to both sides, as well as alternative arrangements and the political declaration."

 

Diplomats said the two sides were moving towards a separate legal statement - a "parallel declaration" or "interpretative instrument" - on the backstop.

 

"We are also looking at updating the declaration on future EU-UK ties after Brexit to give more prominence to the 'alternative arrangements' sought by Britain," said one EU diplomat who deals with Brexit.

 

"But May won't get any firm wording before Feb. 28."

 

Barclay, Barnier and Cox were due to continue talks "urgently" at a technical level, the UK's Brexit ministry said.

 

BREXIT COMPROMISE?

Legal assurances that the backstop is temporary would address a key concern of many Brexit-supporting members of her party who fear it could lock Britain into EU rules indefinitely.

 

Brexit-supporting members of May's Conservative Party have been conspicuous by their silence about the shift from aiming to replace the backstop, as they demanded, to a legal addendum.

 

May, once a reluctant supporter of EU membership who won the top job in the political chaos following the 2016 referendum, has promised to give lawmakers a chance to decide what to do about Brexit on Feb. 27 unless she can bring back a deal.

 

A second diplomat, briefed on the May-Juncker talks, confirmed the EU would only signal this was the direction of travel, rather than offering a precise text, before May faces another vote in parliament.

 

"The parliament needs first to indicate clearly this option would then gain their support in the form of ratifying the Brexit deal. If they do that, we hone out exact words in the second week of March and it goes to the summit for approval."

 

Otherwise, the summit of all EU national leaders that is due on March 21-22 in Brussels, would have to agree a Brexit delay for Britain beyond March 29, sources in the bloc said, to delay the worst-case scenario of an abrupt split without a deal.

 

May will have a further chance to lobby EU leaders at the weekend in the Egyptian resort of Sharm el-Sheikh during an EU-Arab League summit focused on migration, trade and security.

 

British lawmakers voted 432-202 against her deal on Jan. 15, the worst defeat in modern British parliamentary history.

 

With the clock ticking down to March 29, the date set in law for Brexit, Britain is ensnared in the deepest political crisis in half a century as it grapples with how, or even whether, to exit the European project that it joined in 1973.

 

Juncker said failure to agree an orderly divorce would be economically devastating.

 

"If no deal were to happen, and I cannot exclude this, this would have terrible economic and social consequences in Britain and on the continent," he said. "But I am not very optimistic when it comes to this issue."

 

(Additional reporting by Alastair Macdonald and Jan Strupczewski in Brussels and Andrew MacAskill in London; Writing by Guy Faulconbridge; Editing by Alison Williams and Frances Kerry)

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-02-22

[AlexRich]

The fear of the "backstop" is that if the UK enters not it it will never be able to get out of it. Personally I think that scenario is not possible as no sovereign nation could be held indefinitely to an arrangement that they wanted out of ... the UK would simply accuse the EU of acting in bad faith and walk away. 

[Basil B]

A not unexpected quote, can anyone verify  this claim???

 

I suspect there has been no progress, it is just a game of who will chicken out first...

[terryw]

May will cave in to the EU. The Remainer Parliament will in a last minute panic approve her deal.

 

Later this year May will either resign or be forced out and replaced by a Pro Brexit PM.

 

The EU will continue to negotiate in bad faith. The endgame will be the UK sticking two fingers up at the EU and walking away from the agreement when the country in better prepared for a No Deal.

[alanrchase]

1 hour ago, AlexRich said:

The fear of the "backstop" is that if the UK enters not it it will never be able to get out of it. Personally I think that scenario is not possible as no sovereign nation could be held indefinitely to an arrangement that they wanted out of ... the UK would simply accuse the EU of acting in bad faith and walk away. 

My understanding of the "backstop" is to give more time to sort out avoiding a hard border in Ireland. If it can't be sorted out in that time frame a hard border will then happen. Various people don't like the deal as they don't want a hard border. The problem with this is that a "no deal" scenario automatically puts a hard border in Ireland.

[whatsupdoc]

2 minutes ago, terryw said:

May will cave in to the EU. The Remainer Parliament will in a last minute panic approve her deal.

 

Later this year May will either resign or be forced out and replaced by a Pro Brexit PM.

 

The EU will continue to negotiate in bad faith. The endgame will be the UK sticking two fingers up at the EU and walking away from the agreement when the country in better prepared for a No Deal.

And the nonsense from brexiteers just goes on and on.....

The EU negotiating in bad faith????? Its position has been clear and consistent from the beginning.

The UK doesn't know what it wants and keeps negotiating with itself. Please have balls and do walk away without a deal. Good riddance.

 

[mercman24]

the EU have bluffed this sad, weak PM all the way through they are only after our 39 billion

[sawadee1947]

For me it's just like a car crash..... In slow motion 

[sawadee1947]

4 hours ago, mercman24 said:

the EU have bluffed this sad, weak PM all the way through they are only after our 39 billion

Hold on..... If you sign a contract BOTH sides have to fulfill. 

If you order your dinner in a restaurant, I eat your dinner and then tell the waiter you will not pay? 

Laddie, come to reality in life. 

UK is the debtor and will definitely pay the bills. 

And will learn the lesson 

[Loiner]

Hold on..... If you sign a contract BOTH sides have to fulfill. 
If you order your dinner in a restaurant, I eat your dinner and then tell the waiter you will not pay? 
Laddie, come to reality in life. 
UK is the debtor and will definitely pay the bills. 
And will learn the lesson 

There is no Contract and no debt for the UK. Whatever agreement the EU think they have is only with Theresa May, unless passed by Parliament. They both know that.
UK parliament passed an amendment to the Withdrawal Act was for her to reach ‘Alternative Arrangements’. She and the EU have not done that, so no agreement. If they think there’s still a dinner bill then maybe her husband will have to cough up 39Bn.

[soalbundy]

Reminds me of Zeno's Paradox about the impossibility of movement.

[Mavideol]

6 hours ago, terryw said:

May will cave in to the EU. The Remainer Parliament will in a last minute panic approve her deal.

 

Later this year May will either resign or be forced out and replaced by a Pro Brexit PM.

 

The EU will continue to negotiate in bad faith. The endgame will be the UK sticking two fingers up at the EU and walking away from the agreement when the country in better prepared for a No Deal.

so simple yet so complicated....just crew up the deal, sign whatever the EU wants and when better prepared just tell the EU stick it up your rear.... sounds very much like a Chinese deal, never respect any agreement/contract seams to be the new UK principle based on your post, great advise, keep it up

[sawadee1947]

10 minutes ago, Loiner said:

There is no Contract and no debt for the UK. Whatever agreement the EU think they have is only with Theresa May, unless passed by Parliament. They both know that.
UK parliament passed an amendment to the Withdrawal Act was for her to reach ‘Alternative Arrangements’. She and the EU have not done that, so no agreement. If they think there’s still a dinner bill then maybe her husband will have to cough up 39Bn.

Laddie, you don't understand. You enjoyed your dinner and refuse to pay. 

But don't worry. After the Brexit you'll have a flourishing NHS as promised, won't you? 

Wake up Laddie, they fool you with promises. How many new deals you could strike so far? And what were you promised? Give up to leave a powerful community instead being a helpless little island struggeling with the image of being Great. 

 

 

[Mavideol]

2 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

Laddie, you don't understand. You enjoyed your dinner and refuse to pay. 

But don't worry. After the Brexit you'll have a flourishing NHS as promised, won't you? 

Wake up Laddie, they fool you with promises. How many new deals you could strike so far? And what were you promised? Give up to leave a powerful community instead being a helpless little island struggeling with the image of being Great. 

 

 

555 and 555 so far they have a (potential) deal with NZ and so MANY others waiting in line 555

[Kwasaki]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

Juncker said failure to agree an orderly divorce would be economically devastating.

"If no deal were to happen, and I cannot exclude this, this would have terrible economic and social consequences in Britain and on the continent," he said. "But I am not very optimistic when it comes to this issue."

We know that so do something about it, withdraw the talons and let UK go.

[Loiner]

Laddie, you don't understand. You enjoyed your dinner and refuse to pay. 
But don't worry. After the Brexit you'll have a flourishing NHS as promised, won't you? 
Wake up Laddie, they fool you with promises. How many new deals you could strike so far? And what were you promised? Give up to leave a powerful community instead being a helpless little island struggeling with the image of being Great. 
 
 

There has been no dinner, so nothing to pay for. The 39 Bn is to pay for future club membership, after we have ‘left’ the club. That’s only IF they can con enough of Parliament into their deal.
Until then we are off, and taking you all with us. Enjoy the ride.



Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[vogie]

1 hour ago, sawadee1947 said:

Hold on..... If you sign a contract BOTH sides have to fulfill. 

If you order your dinner in a restaurant, I eat your dinner and then tell the waiter you will not pay? 

Laddie, come to reality in life. 

UK is the debtor and will definitely pay the bills. 

And will learn the lesson 

If I ordered coq au vin in a restaurant and they served me soup and stale bread, they would not get a penny.

You sure your enthusiasm in the UK paying this money is not down to your love of the EU, but more to do with your dislike of England?????

[sawadee1947]

13 minutes ago, vogie said:

If I ordered coq au vin in a restaurant and they served me soup and stale bread, they would not get a penny.

You sure your enthusiasm in the UK paying this money is not down to your love of the EU, but more to do with your dislike of England?????

Your example is simply wrong. 

In EU-restaurant you cook your meal together with all other members of the club and eat it. However you have to pay for the ingredients. You

Can't complain if you don't like it because you are one of the chefs. 

But of course some simple minds are happy with Haggis only. 

[vogie]

1 minute ago, sawadee1947 said:

Your example is simply wrong. 

In EU-restaurant you cook your meal together with all other members of the club and eat it. However you have to pay for the ingredients. You

Can't complain if you don't like it because you are one of the chefs. 

But of course some simple minds are happy with Haggis only. 

That's all well and good, but some of us don't want the head chef telling us what to eat, what colour to paint our house and what flowers to grow in my garden.

 

[sawadee1947]

30 minutes ago, vogie said:

That's all well and good, but some of us don't want the head chef telling us what to eat, what colour to paint our house and what flowers to grow in my garden.

 

Another time you are wrong. 

It's not the "head-chef" (I presume you mean Junker?) who decides! 

Decisions are made by all members. One country one vote. And if ALL members decide houses to be painted in red, then unfortunately YOU have to follow. This is called democracy. There are of course bureaucrats in Brussels, but.... They send by the national governments, acting for them in consence. 

[Krataiboy]

9 hours ago, AlexRich said:

The fear of the "backstop" is that if the UK enters not it it will never be able to get out of it. Personally I think that scenario is not possible as no sovereign nation could be held indefinitely to an arrangement that they wanted out of ... the UK would simply accuse the EU of acting in bad faith and walk away. 

You are assuming (some might suggest rather naively) that the Remainer Prime Minister and her Remainer negotiating team actually want Britain to leave the EU. . . 

[soalbundy]

1 hour ago, Mavideol said:

555 and 555 so far they have a (potential) deal with NZ and so MANY others waiting in line 555

mmmmm yum yum, potential lamb

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

Another time you are wrong. 

It's not the "head-chef" (I presume you mean Junker?) who decides! 

Decisions are made by all members. One country one vote. And if ALL members decide houses to be painted in red, then unfortunately YOU have to follow. This is called democracy. There are of course bureaucrats in Brussels, but.... They send by the national governments, acting for them in consence. 

How can I possibly be right when you hold the monopoly on being indomitable.

 

I would class Juncker more of a wine steward than the head chef.

 

I'm not sure where you have been for the last two years, but we don't infact "have to follow", we have chosen to leave this undemocratic restaurant where unreasonable decisions are made on our behalf and open our own bistro where can serve specialities, instead of the boring plat de jour.

 

 

[Retiredandhappyhere]

9 hours ago, whatsupdoc said:

And the nonsense from brexiteers just goes on and on.....

The EU negotiating in bad faith????? Its position has been clear and consistent from the beginning.

The UK doesn't know what it wants and keeps negotiating with itself. Please have balls and do walk away without a deal. Good riddance.

 

You do understand that the EU wanted the UK to stay (and still does)  but that it was the UK that wanted to say "good riddance" to the EU?  

[dick dasterdly]

4 hours ago, Loiner said:

There has been no dinner, so nothing to pay for. The 39 Bn is to pay for future club membership, after we have ‘left’ the club. That’s only IF they can con enough of Parliament into their deal.
Until then we are off, and taking you all with us. Enjoy the ride.



Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

"The 39 Bn is to pay for future club membership, after we have ‘left’ the club."

 

Precisely, and we're still waiting to learn how they have arrived at this figure.

 

I suspect we'll have an indefinite wait - much like the backstop......

[samran]

3 hours ago, soalbundy said:

mmmmm yum yum, potential lamb

Which already received a carve out when you joined the EEC. But more the merrier. I’m sure the welsh farmers will appreciate it!

[samran]

10 hours ago, whatsupdoc said:

And the nonsense from brexiteers just goes on and on.....

The EU negotiating in bad faith????? Its position has been clear and consistent from the beginning.

The UK doesn't know what it wants and keeps negotiating with itself. Please have balls and do walk away without a deal. Good riddance.

 

And even then, I wonder why there is an expectation from brexiters for the EU to negotiate against their own interests. Arrogance probably. 

 

They U.K. voted out, so now they sit on the other side of the table. They need to deal with everything that comes with that. 

[Enoon]

4 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

We know that so do something about it, withdraw the talons and let UK go.

 

"Talons"?

 

Britain is leaving on 29th March.

 

Because "leave means leave".

 

The EU will not (cannot) do anything to stop what will be, for you, a joyous departure.

 

Only Britain can do that, only Britain can try to "cling on".

 

What's your problem?

 

 

 

 

 

[SheungWan]

10 hours ago, mercman24 said:

the EU have bluffed this sad, weak PM all the way through they are only after our 39 billion

No bluff. Though it must be difficult negotiating with the other side at permanent war with itself.

[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, vogie said:

How can I possibly be right when you hold the monopoly on being indomitable.

I would class Juncker more of a wine steward than the head chef.

I'm not sure where you have been for the last two years, but we don't infact "have to follow", we have chosen to leave this undemocratic restaurant where unreasonable decisions are made on our behalf and open our own bistro where can serve specialities, instead of the boring plat de jour.

Brexiteer Whine Steward.