chang1 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 1 hour ago, 473geo said: You speak as though negotiation is something to fear - at times a mutual agreement can be the best way forward. When entering into a negotiation it is always better to have as much information about the other side so you can weigh up how hard to negotiate. Knowing I can be deported for such a minor discretion means we are in a much weaker position than I thought. I feel there must be more to this story than we have been told. Many foreigners do far worse crimes without being deported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
473geo Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 6 minutes ago, lamyai3 said: I doubt you'd have wished for the "deal" they offered the French woman - it was a lot more than two weeks wages. It was about three months average salary in Thailand, for something that isn't even an offence in any other tourist destination. Perhaps I have a bit more confidence in my negotiating skills. Might not have even required a visit to the police station - who knows how the lady behaved - after being caught breaking the law Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
473geo Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 8 minutes ago, chang1 said: When entering into a negotiation it is always better to have as much information about the other side so you can weigh up how hard to negotiate. Knowing I can be deported for such a minor discretion means we are in a much weaker position than I thought. I feel there must be more to this story than we have been told. Many foreigners do far worse crimes without being deported. When your visa is up and your passport is in the hands of immigration where would you be going except out of the country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamyai3 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Just now, 473geo said: Perhaps I have a bit more confidence in my negotiating skills. I wouldn't expect a tourist to have even thought it possible to be fined for carrying a vape. Completely ridiculous, I think she was quite right to stand her ground, even if the bribe had been minimal. I hope the people involved lose their jobs over it. Agree about the UK though. Twenty or thirty years ago there was no way you could walk home from the pub with one or two piss stops, and people's bladders haven't gotten any bigger. Neither me nor any of my friends was ever arrested for the many thousands of similar offences we must have carried out in our misspent youth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPI Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 On 2/27/2019 at 9:46 PM, phuketrichard said: NOTE; SHE CLAIMS please tell me when thailand was broke or when ( expect year after Tsunami) the tourists stopped coming here? I remember when CM was empty of tourists and shop owners were sitting outside their premises talking amongst themselves...2002 - 2004! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttrd Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 31 minutes ago, lamyai3 said: How about extortion, incarceration for several days in a filthy cell on a hard floor, and very expensive deportation... get some perspective! Vaping is recognised in pretty much every civilised country as a much healthier alternative to cigarettes (which she wouldn't have been fined for). And smoking on a family holiday? I have many happy memories of family holidays when I was young, and I don't begrudge the fact that my father enjoyed a few cigars on them. Certainly didn't influence me to start smoking. Its not that long ago where it was fairly common that children where forced to inhale cigarette smoke sitting in the back seat of the car and their parents in front smoking with both hands and the windows closed - those times are luckily gone - at least in Western Europe ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
473geo Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 13 minutes ago, lamyai3 said: I wouldn't expect a tourist to have even thought it possible to be fined for carrying a vape. Completely ridiculous, I think she was quite right to stand her ground, even if the bribe had been minimal. I hope the people involved lose their jobs over it. Agree about the UK though. Twenty or thirty years ago there was no way you could walk home from the pub with one or two piss stops, and people's bladders haven't gotten any bigger. Neither me nor any of my friends was ever arrested for the many thousands of similar offences we must have carried out in our misspent youth. Thai law, ridiculous or not, and perhaps they tried to confiscate it and her response was impolite, why should they lose their jobs, their country their laws? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttrd Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 12 hours ago, Trexpat said: And so is prostitution illegal, as is driving a motorbike without a proper licence, renting or hiring a jetski without correct insurance or how about operating a meter taxi with the meter turned off. With all of these illegal items the officials look the other way because there is money to be made, with someone bringing in a vape cigarette from another country where it is bought legally, then face a massive fine and deportation is ok because of the 40K to be made and deporting the person is fine because there will be another unsuspecting tourist arriving shortly after. Sawadee1947 is failing to see that the endless greed and disregard for tourist welfare will ultimately bite this beautiful country in the bum, Phuket has always had the belief that rules are there for bending in the pursuit of profit and foreigners are will come regardless. This mentality still exists even after the Phoenix Boat accident and the dramatic drop in tourist arrivals as a direct result, I only hope that this changes soon enough before people start choosing to holiday elsewhere. In some states in the US the cannabis is legal, but it doesn't mean you can travel anywhere with ... We cant justify illegal actions by pointing on other illegalities no matter how unreasonable it may seem .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamyai3 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 9 minutes ago, ttrd said: Its not that long ago where it was fairly common that children where forced to inhale cigarette smoke sitting in the back seat of the car and their parents in front smoking with both hands and the windows closed - those times are luckily gone - at least in Western Europe ... Agree, but the risks of second hand smoke weren't known at all back then. Neither me nor my sister has a problem with the fact that it was culturally normal when we were growing up, Although I wasn't so fond of the smell of cigar smoke, it was more the smell of vinyl seats that I didn't like in the car. And I have extremely nostalgic memories of the aroma of my granddad's pipe. But sure, now the health effects are properly appreciated I absolutely condone the changes. This is why it's so absurd to prosecute someone for vaping, which is recognised everywhere as a far more acceptable practice than smoking cigarettes. And sadly the only reason Thailand isn't on board with it yet is the same reason the French woman had a problem, that they're trying to cut an under the table deal for the right money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamyai3 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 23 minutes ago, 473geo said: Thai law, ridiculous or not, and perhaps they tried to confiscate it and her response was impolite, why should they lose their jobs, their country their laws? No evidence that this happened. If they'd tried to confiscate it and she'd responded rudely you'd have expected it to have appeared in the police statement defending their actions, but even if she had you'd expect a police force to act professionally and without prejudice. You don't think someone who attempts an extremely high level of extortion shouldn't suffer the consequences? I'll never understand the Thai apologists... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritManToo Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 5 hours ago, 473geo said: How about working harder to stay on the right side of the law ???? Let's hope you never let your retirement account dip below 400k. That must be worth at least deportation and a ten year ban. What next, deportation for jay-walking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamyai3 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 5 hours ago, 473geo said: How about working harder to stay on the right side of the law ???? And yet you lament in another post about not being able to bribe the UK police after being caught pissing in a side alley? ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullcave Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Amazing what they did to this woman and her family. She should have paid the bribe. TIT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phuketrichard Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 3 hours ago, TPI said: I remember when CM was empty of tourists and shop owners were sitting outside their premises talking amongst themselves...2002 - 2004! wasn't like that in Phuket till the year after (2005) the tsunami PS,this year is slow......BUT hardly Broke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS1 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 22 hours ago, madmitch said: Believe it or not there are processes in place for persons to extend visas whilst on bail! It was some time ago when someone I knew was busted for cannabis possession. I went to the Court with him where they gave him a letter enabling him to go to the Police Station to reclaim his passport in order to go to Immigration to get the relevant extension. Yes, his passport was simply handed back to him along with an instruction to return the passport to the police station once the extension had been approved by Immigration. He seriously considered packing his bags and going to the nearest land border but decided in the end to play it by the book - just in case he was on the Immigration database. So off to Immigration, a payment of 1900 baht and a special extension of the 30 day stamp was granted. I have no idea if the system is still the same but simply handing back the passport does seem to be a little lax! Final outcome: 10,000 baht fine and deportation. A colleague of mine got also caught for cannabis possession. He refused a 20k bribe and went to jail. He was released on 10k bail the same evening and went back home. A couple of months later, he went to court and was issued a 2600 baht fine, returned his bail money and off he went. 22 hours ago, sawadee1947 said: Why you call it Rediculous??? Law is law! And what is this exact "law"? I have yet to see anyone actually quoting a copy of this "law", which is very confusing to everyone with constantly changing interpretations. AFAIK the law they can use against you is only related to non-payment of taxes, so they could give people the same fine for importing a new iPhone on them and not paying taxes on it. Do you know that it's illegal in Thailand to not wear underwear? Should the cops go and arrest every tourist who's guilty of walking around with shorts only going "commando" beacuse the "law is law"? Should the cops go and arrest every Pattaya holidaygoer for paying for sex? "Law is law" I guess they should arrest everyone for these "crimes". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamyai3 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 3 hours ago, ttrd said: We cant justify illegal actions by pointing on other illegalities no matter how unreasonable it may seem .... Depends on how officious "we" are. There's a lot of posters on these threads who seem to have missed their true calling in life as a traffic warden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawadee1947 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 11 hours ago, oldhippy said: Again, the 827 baht was a fine and in compliance with Thai law. The 40.000 was not a fine, but extortion, and not in compliance with Thai law. The lawbreaking by the local mafia far exceeds the lawbreaking by that tourist. Again, if you come to Thailand you know what to expect : junta, corruption. Evrrything is possible. Many predators around. So try to avoid any kind of law breaking. The outcome is unpredictable. qed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawadee1947 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 57 minutes ago, SS1 said: A colleague of mine got also caught for cannabis possession. He refused a 20k bribe and went to jail. He was released on 10k bail the same evening and went back home. A couple of months later, he went to court and was issued a 2600 baht fine, returned his bail money and off he went. And what is this exact "law"? I have yet to see anyone actually quoting a copy of this "law", which is very confusing to everyone with constantly changing interpretations. AFAIK the law they can use against you is only related to non-payment of taxes, so they could give people the same fine for importing a new iPhone on them and not paying taxes on it. Do you know that it's illegal in Thailand to not wear underwear? Should the cops go and arrest every tourist who's guilty of walking around with shorts only going "commando" beacuse the "law is law"? Should the cops go and arrest every Pattaya holidaygoer for paying for sex? "Law is law" I guess they should arrest everyone for these "crimes". You describe the situation very well. Law is what the institution (govt and police) want to consider as law. And the interpretation can change every day and on any occasion. If you come to Thailand you know that. It's 3rd world with 3rd world law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestB Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 11 hours ago, oldhippy said: Again, the 827 baht was a fine and in compliance with Thai law. The 40.000 was not a fine, but extortion, and not in compliance with Thai law. The lawbreaking by the local mafia far exceeds the lawbreaking by that tourist. You got it, 827 was the fine, 100000 was the bail , 25000 or so was legal fees and 4 nights in jail, plus another 25000 for air fare and all over sudden 40000 sounds like a gift, does not it? if she did not throw a hissy but negotiated , it could have easily been 20000, instead of her total of 240000 as she claims Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am More Thai Than You Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 18 hours ago, richard_smith237 said: .. Should I take as Gospel that she behaved like a right upstart You are good at dissecting a sentence and changing it to suit your needs aren't you. You forgot to add the key word "perhaps". 18 hours ago, richard_smith237 said: How would you behave if stopped by a Policeman, searched and told you need to pay a 40,000 baht fine ($1270) for something you had no idea what illegal and perfectly legal in the majority of countries??? I wouldn't be so stupid to get into that situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
473geo Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 5 hours ago, lamyai3 said: And yet you lament in another post about not being able to bribe the UK police after being caught pissing in a side alley? ???? Not at all, got caught, ended up paying the fine rather than pee my pants, and, suggested I would have preferred the option of a police fine and no 'criminal record' or conviction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LobsterBoston1980 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 On 2/27/2019 at 5:22 AM, oldhippy said: A chance to extort 40.000 IS a big fish for the officers involved in this scam. Thailand, land of the SMILE... make sure you have B40,000 with you smokers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LobsterBoston1980 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 2 hours ago, BestB said: You got it, 827 was the fine, 100000 was the bail , 25000 or so was legal fees and 4 nights in jail, plus another 25000 for air fare and all over sudden 40000 sounds like a gift, does not it? if she did not throw a hissy but negotiated , it could have easily been 20000, instead of her total of 240000 as she claims even B20k is still a ridiculously big fine just for vaping out in the open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LobsterBoston1980 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 4 hours ago, fullcave said: Amazing what they did to this woman and her family. She should have paid the bribe. TIT! 1200 dollars just for vaping? I'd rather get deport and go to another country(Malaysia, Indonesia, Laos, Vietnam, China, Philippines they're all the same as Thailand!) and spend my 1200 there. Thailand is not smart, if they keep doing this the tourists soon will choose another destinations for their vacations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommysboy Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 The most ridiculous thing in a surreal story is that vaping is generally regarded as near harmless, whereas smoking we know to be lethal. Thailand looks increasingly foolish as well as corrupt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadiseLost Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 It was all lost in translation: she was apprehended for gaping - not vaping - on the rear of the motorcycle! If so, the court and policeman's reactions seem more justifiable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joecoolfrog Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 18 hours ago, madmen said: It's irrelevant what you think. Don't break the law and put yourself in the position of getting extorted. Ain't rocket science Ah bless , so naive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Weird Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 On 2/27/2019 at 5:17 PM, KhaoTan said: Ridiculous! Haven't they bigger fish to fry than a e-cigarette? Ridiculous to suggest that while her case was being processed every other case involving bigger fish was on hold. Are you suggesting that all minor crimes are ignored and that wouldn't be considered ridiculous? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Weird Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 On 2/27/2019 at 5:24 PM, tifino said: ...they know nothing zbout her 8000€ problems... well it was nothing to do with them, that she probably had to purchase new tickets, assuming her airline ticketing agreement has no date chsnges no transfers... Not their problem. It wouldn't have been her problem, either, if she hadn't been caught vaping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simtemple Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Vaping Kills: https://www.fofy.com/exploding-e-cigarette-killed-florida-man-police-says/?utm_medium=2&utm_source=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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