If your Thai wife dies, how do you protect yourself from her family...

[NanLaew]

7 minutes ago, topt said:

...local land office and perhaps Pattaya local municipality...

aka government (local), ie. the ones with state pensions.

[doggie1955]

3 hours ago, Sheryl said:

The home and land issue I understand, since they can't be in your name.

 

But why on earth have vehicles and bank accounts without your name on them?

She has her own bank account with farmer bank and one truck, as I do.

[doggie1955]

2 hours ago, The Man Who Sold the World said:

take your wife and go talk to a real licensed Thai Attorney, pay him/her for their professional opinion on how to protect both you and your wife in the event of an untimely death, and get a copy of their Attorney license. Visit your home country (USA) and talk to a licensed Attorney, again, pay them for their professional opinion and get a copy of their license. Then proceed.

 

I did the above, have complete Attorney packages/documents, wills power of attorneys, living wills, etc. Costly - yes. Peace of mind is worth it. International law - YOU must protect your and your wife's interest. International Law - you need legal documents that are registered and account for all scenarios - you do need Attorneys from both countries. 

 

uhm… free legal advice on an internet forum - well... you get what you pay for.

Thank You, this will help a lot...

 

[grifbel]

4 hours ago, doggie1955 said:

We all know how her family will be at your home looking at what they can get their hands on, even if you paid for it all.

So how do you protect yourself, what do you need to do?

You are a fool if you went all in without thinking of the consequences.

[Basil B]

4 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

Better your family relations now.

I doubt that will stop them, when they get to smell money...

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, cornishcarlos said:

 

Post some valid info to back up your statements otherwise it's just confusing for readers.. I've not heard anything about this development but you must have some official links to make a claim like that ,??

Usufruct is alive and well. I have specific evidence, applied to a chanut about 1 year ago (not Pattaya) with no hesitation by the seniors at a lands title office.

 

Actually I wonder if the lands title staff (senior or junior) can, when a Thai or any person lodges the appropriate documents as a matter of course to record a usufruct on a land title, refuse. Seems to me they would be breaking the law and derelict in their duties.

 

It's not their call to apply their personal opinion on such things.

 

 

 

 

[simon43]

It's not their call to apply their personal opinion on such things.

 

Oh yes it is - just the same as when Immigration officers apply their personal opinion....

 

 

[Sheryl]

54 minutes ago, doggie1955 said:

She has her own bank account with farmer bank and one truck, as I do.

Well add your name to both (and her to yours, perhaps) will simplify matters when one of you dies. You can consider to treat this as your own, with the second name just there for inheritance reasons.

 

For the house and land, need a will and there may indeed be some hassles and it will take a while to sort out. But if you have added your name onto her bank account and her truck, those at least will be safe.

[stud858]

For reasons of Thai law, I recommend never to get married in Thailand.

Partners for life is better.

 

[Skallywag]

2 hours ago, doggie1955 said:

Attorney packages/documents, wills power of attorneys, living wills, etc. Costly - yes. Peace of mind is worth it. International law - YOU must protect your and your wife's interest. International Law - you need legal documents that are registered and account for all scenarios - you do need Attorneys from both countries. 

So you really believe that an attorney from USA will be able to communicate with a Thai attorney and all the living wills and power of attorney documents will be "recognized" or adjudicated or whatever the term is when something happens in Thailand?  In Thailand I just dont see that happening unless it is beneficial to the thai family .  (meaning not us foreigners).

 

Where do you "register" documents under international law?  

[ravip]

5 hours ago, cyril sneer said:

i've no idea what you're on about

I understand...

5 hours ago, BritManToo said:

That ain't exactly hard.

Majority at TVF think the same as you...reality is quite different.

[ravip]

6 hours ago, AGareth2 said:

Thai culture says otherwise

 

4 hours ago, NanLaew said:

So they are culture vultures?

It will of course depend on the choice of wife you took.

Normal Thai ladies are not twiddling their thumbs waiting for a foreigner - that is the main reason most foreigners find wives from the tourist areas.

[elliss]

5 hours ago, BritManToo said:

That ain't exactly hard.

         Try  Viagra,  everybody happy.  555

 

 

 

 

[thaiguzzi]

7 hours ago, doggie1955 said:

Let's just say your Thai Wife dies here in Thailand, what happens to your home, everything in the home, land, car/truck, bank account...

As we all know, shit happens here in Thailand every day. The Wife just goes to 7/11 to get something and she gets hit by a truck and dies.

We all know how her family will be at your home looking at what they can get their hands on, even if you paid for it all.

So how do you protect yourself, what do you need to do?

Nothing.

Carry on as normal.

My daughter gets some of it when i pop my clogs, My son gets most of it when i pop my clogs.

There will be NO ARGUMENTS.

7 hours ago, doggie1955 said:

We all know how her family will be at your home looking at what they can get their hands on,

We all?

You know?

You don't know my family.

[Tanoshi]

Make a Will, covering the house, vehicles, bank accounts and any other personal possessions.

The land must pass to a Thai, but you can draw up an usufruct that will protect your rights on the land for 30 years.

[The Man Who Sold the World]

2 hours ago, Skallywag said:

So you really believe that an attorney from USA will be able to communicate with a Thai attorney and all the living wills and power of attorney documents will be "recognized" or adjudicated or whatever the term is when something happens in Thailand?  In Thailand I just dont see that happening unless it is beneficial to the thai family .  (meaning not us foreigners).

 

Where do you "register" documents under international law?  

Actually, both Attorneys detail and identify that your legal documents are country specific - that is why you MUST have attorneys in both countries. Interesting in that the Thai will is much more detailed than the USA wills. 

 

But - the deal is you must identify ALL ASSETS and where and who they go to. Use a clause identifying "future" assets. And you need to cover ALL bases, family law, property law, real estate, business, financial, investment... life is complicated. 

 

It is YOUR responsibility to protect, yourself, your wife and your family. It is not a responsibility to be taken lightly. 

 

Anyway - you need Licensed Attorneys to protect you. And, you need to do your "due diligence" in selecting your Attorneys. This is arguably the most important item in a successful expat relocation. 

 

 

 

[billd766]

By Doogie 1955

 

quote" Let's just say your Thai Wife dies here in Thailand, what happens to your home, everything in the home, land, car/truck, bank account...

As we all know, shit happens here in Thailand every day. The Wife just goes to 7/11 to get something and she gets hit by a truck and dies.

We all know how her family will be at your home looking at what they can get their hands on, even if you paid for it all.

So how do you protect yourself, what do you need to do?"

 

Actually NO, WE don't know that the Thai family shit happens and NO my wife's family will NOT be around our home looking at what they can lay their hands on.

 

Why would that be? Perhaps because of the laws of inheritance in Thailand where I get 50% and our son gets 50% of the inheritance and I have to dispose of my share within one year. Simple I will give it to my son.

 

What you do is to trust your wife and her family from the start. If you cannot do that then perhaps you should not have married her.

 

Now YOU may not trust your wife's family but I do. I know that they will help both my son and I, and NO they will be here to helps us through a bad time.

 

If you don't or can't understand that then the problem is yours and not mine.

 

 

[billd766]

7 hours ago, AGareth2 said:

Thai culture says otherwise

What a load of bull droppings.

[billd766]

57 minutes ago, thaiguzzi said:

Nothing.

Carry on as normal.

My daughter gets some of it when i pop my clogs, My son gets most of it when i pop my clogs.

There will be NO ARGUMENTS.

We all?

You know?

You don't know my family.

Or mine. ????????

[cornishcarlos]

49 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Make a Will, covering the house, vehicles, bank accounts and any other personal possessions.

The land must pass to a Thai, but you can draw up an usufruct that will protect your rights on the land for 30 years.

 

Actually a Usufruct is for the life of the Usufructee unless you wish to put a limit in years on it. The wording that is written on the Chanote is what protects the Usufructee..

[Tanoshi]

@doggie1955

Under Thailand's Inheritance laws, you as the spouse are a statutory heir in the case of no Will.

There are 6 classes as statutory heirs;

1 descendants;

2 parents;

3 brothers and sisters of full blood;

4 brothers and sisters of half blood;

5 grandparents;

6 uncles and aunts.

 

In the case of having children the assets are divided 50/50 by the children and spouse.

In the case of no children the assets are divided 50/50 by the parents and spouse

In the case of no children and no parents, the assets are divided 50/50 by brothers/sisters and spouse.

In the case of 4,5 and 6, and in ascending order, where 1,2, and 3 do not exist, then the assets are divided 1/3 by either 4,5,or 6 and 2/3 by the spouse.

 

Otherwise make a Will making you as the spouse, the sole full heir.

[Ks45672]

Shotgun and a few big dogs should be enough... 

[Morch]

5 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Well add your name to both (and her to yours, perhaps) will simplify matters when one of you dies. You can consider to treat this as your own, with the second name just there for inheritance reasons.

 

For the house and land, need a will and there may indeed be some hassles and it will take a while to sort out. But if you have added your name onto her bank account and her truck, those at least will be safe.

 

Some accounts need to be only under one name. For example, the one you keep the visa extension money in. Another example, if transferring funds from abroad to purchase land.

 

Some countries might have issues with registering bank accounts for foreign nationals, especially without them being present in country.

 

On top of that, I'm aware of one case (in Thailand) where ownership of joint accounts and property was challenged by the guy's wife. Their claim was that they were due their cut from "her" half. They managed some sort of asset freeze on these, which seemed to be more of a leverage thing, rather than an unassailable legal position. But it worked - because people aren't always in the best state of mind at such times, and not everyone's up for a costly legal battle.

[scorecard]

7 hours ago, NanLaew said:

I honestly hope you have great good luck on that but since it's the government that's basically saying 'cannot', I would hope a decent lawyer will say that it's simply a case of how much money it takes to get them to have any epiphany, admit that they're wrong and interpret the law correctly. A lump sum, one-off payment (plus the lawyers xx%) that doesn't necessarily need to be in a brown envelope? The lesser lawyer will simply milk you on a retainer while doing bugger all since nobody tells anyone in government that they've got it all wrong.

 

If I am not mistaken, this spreading reticence about usufructs is inversely proportional to the approach of the (steadily delayed) elections. Therefore the same decent lawyer may suggest one just wait until that event is over and see what shakes out.

 

 

I don't agree at all.

 

For well over 3 decades that I'm aware of lands titles offices (many not all) have been laws unto themselves, executing whatever scams they could dream up to rip people off, Thais and foreigners, for billions of Baht.

 

Were they instructed to do this by 'the government', at least about 12 governments that I'm aware of? No. They just operated as lone wolves because they had over years developed the power to do so. And throughout that period 99% of the heads of the various governments paid no attention to it, like many other scams and rip offs and acts of local etc., corruption, they were too busy with their noses in giant troughs.

 

"....If I am not mistaken, this spreading reticence about usufructs is inversely proportional to the approach of the (steadily delayed) elections....." 

What a load of rubbish. 

 

As I already mentioned, about 12 months ago my Thai son (his own initiative) went to the local lands titles office (not Pattaya) and put a usufruct on the chanut for his decent size 2 blocks of land in a moo baan in my name*. There was no hint in any way from the LTO staff that usufruct was no longer available / cannot etc. When all completed our family lawyer checked the chanhut and the usufruct document and said 'all correct'. (*This goes back to the original heading of this thread, my son absolutely doesn't trust his in-laws and he decided to add another 'protection' to his assets to ensure nobody gets anywhere near what he has bequeathed in his will to his kids.) 

 

Back to usufruct, yesterday after reading this thread I called our very experienced and trusted family lawyer (speaks perfect English) and asked him if usufruct is no longer available. He asked me to repeat my question. His surprised response was 'no and I doubt that the law on this would ever be changed', there is no reason to cancel or adjust this law which is used by large numbers of Thai people and many foreigners. Then he went on to say it's written in law and it can only be changed by a repeal through an act of parliament and published in the official royal gazette.

 

I then asked him if local LTOs have the authority to refuse it at a local level? He responded absolutely NO, they must follow the law.

 

Just 1 hour ago he called me to say this afternoon he checked to be sure, and he confirmed the law of this matter has not changed and there is no discussion listed on any parliamentary debate agenda to discuss the matter.

 

Seems like someone's imagination is running wild and causing unnecessary confusion and concern.

 

 

[scorecard]

6 hours ago, NanLaew said:

aka government (local), ie. the ones with state pensions.

What?

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Make a Will, covering the house, vehicles, bank accounts and any other personal possessions.

The land must pass to a Thai, but you can draw up an usufruct that will protect your rights on the land for 30 years.

Usufruct can be for life. Once executed it can only be removed:

 

- By the death of the person named in he usufruct.

- The person named in the usufruct officially instructing the LTO to remove it. 

 

 

[scorecard]

30 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Usufruct can be for life. Once executed it can only be removed:

 

- By the death of the person named in the usufruct.

- The person named in the usufruct officially instructing the LTO to remove it. 

 

 

 

[musiclover]

2 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

@doggie1955

Under Thailand's Inheritance laws, you as the spouse are a statutory heir in the case of no Will.

There are 6 classes as statutory heirs;

1 descendants;

2 parents;

3 brothers and sisters of full blood;

4 brothers and sisters of half blood;

5 grandparents;

6 uncles and aunts.

 

In the case of having children the assets are divided 50/50 by the children and spouse.

In the case of no children the assets are divided 50/50 by the parents and spouse

In the case of no children and no parents, the assets are divided 50/50 by brothers/sisters and spouse.

In the case of 4,5 and 6, and in ascending order, where 1,2, and 3 do not exist, then the assets are divided 1/3 by either 4,5,or 6 and 2/3 by the spouse.

 

Otherwise make a Will making you as the spouse, the sole full heir.

That is not accurate .......with no will the assets are divided 50/50 AFTER the spouse receives 50%

So....with 1 child the split is 75/25 in favour of the spouse.....it is NOT a straight 50/50 split!

[Tanoshi]

43 minutes ago, musiclover said:

That is not accurate .......with no will the assets are divided 50/50 AFTER the spouse receives 50%

So....with 1 child the split is 75/25 in favour of the spouse.....it is NOT a straight 50/50 split!

Civil and Commercial Code.

http://library.siam-legal.com/thai-law/civil-and-commercial-code-statutory-heirs-section-1635-1638/

 

Section 1635. Surviving Spouse

The surviving spouse is entitled to the inheritance of the deceased in the class and according to the division as hereunder provided:

if there is an heir according to Section 1629 (1) surviving or having representatives as the case may be, such surviving spouse is entitled to the same share as an heir in the degree of children;

[ukrules]

14 hours ago, colinneil said:

Simon ole lad, why make that comment?

My wife is a fantastic, loving, caring, honest lady.

Now her family are the complete opposite, they steal, con, lie every single day.

My wife dies i am totally knackered, i have thought about this a few times, time for me to pop a pile of pills and join her.

Indeed, the woman I live with has moral values and pretty much hates her brothers and sisters who are either lazy and / or drunken morons depending on which one you're talking about. They're the polar complete opposite of her in every way possible.

 

Her parents are ok but they're getting on a bit although her father still works.

 

Her brother phoned from a hospital not too long ago asking for money after he fell off his motorbike whilst drunk, I told her to tell him we're a bit short this month as I've decided to spend my 'spare' cash on having my teeth whitened.

 

We haven't heard from him for a while and hope not to ????????