Expats in Thailand considering moving to Latin America prompted by Thai visa changes

[Jingthing 66,462]

(Back to actual topic.)

 

This is more of a theoretical musing than based on facts.

 

Thailand as we all know is among the most major tourist attractions in the world. 

 

At least in the tourist and expat oriented hubs the infrastructure supporting English speaking foreigners is remarkable. 

 

Unless you want to you don't really need to learn any Thai at all. 

 

You can do important business such as banking completely in English.

 

But then there can be a downside to all that. I think so many of us don't get beyond being seen as "walking ATMs" that are still "temporary" tourists even if we've been here for 20 years.

 

Yes of course many expats here have gotten beyond that at least with their immediate circles.  But as a generality, plenty have not and never will.

 

Contrast of many places in Latin America that do not have such an incredible infrastructure for Anglo foreigners.

 

Some expats may choose to live in "gringo ghettos" like Poblado Medellin, parts of Cuenca Ecuador, or Boquette Panama etc. and not really mix with the locals. So their experience as far as how they are perceived may not be very different than the expats in Thailand type thing described above.

 

But it's my theory anyway that there are more opportunities in Latin America to become just another person living there but is a foreigner 

 

That would be more provincial cities or local areas of large famous cities.  It would necessitate speaking some Spanish. It would mean making a large effort to not being an "ugly American" type throwing your money around with big tips as if you're on permanent vacation. But I really do think (maybe I'm wrong) that it's a much more achievable status than in Thailand.

 

Think about how you regarded foreigners living in your home country that spoke your language poorly but were making an effort to be part of the majority community. I think most people would consider such people in a positive light, whether they are rich or poor. 

 

Probably not everyone cares at all about whether they are seen as a regular person rather than a permanent tourist, but again I think for people that do think the former is desirable, Latin America is a better bet.

[Jingthing 66,462]

What was involved for this couple (and dog) to get settled into a very nice little house in Guadalajara Mexico. As the second largest city in Mexico yes they do have lots of crime and security issues. Frankly. what they went through sounds like a major PITA and one of them is fluent in Spanish. But I think there may be some useful background in their video for renting in Mexico in general.

 

 

[fhickson 512]

the poverty aspect is much different in latin america then asia.

 

in latin america people KNOW they are poor and hate you for it. in asia they are poor but they dont really know how the better half is living.

[Jingthing 66,462]

5 hours ago, fhickson said:

the poverty aspect is much different in latin america then asia.

 

in latin america people KNOW they are poor and hate you for it. in asia they are poor but they dont really know how the better half is living.

That's an extreme generalization but an interesting one.

"Asia" and "Latin America" are each very big places with very diverse cultures.

If that generalization is true about Latin Americans being more conscious and aware of their situation while in poverty, doesn't that make them pretty much the same as westerners?

A frequently heard cliché about Thailand is that it's about as different from the west as you can get. 

Latin America on the other hand -- is it part of the west or not?

I'm not exactly sure.

I recently read an item suggesting that Latin American nations have more in common with each other than they do with fellow American nations -- USA and Canada. 

I also read a hint of colonialism in your comment. They're poor and happy, isn't that charming. So they serve the cocktails with a smile instead of a smirk..

Well not so much with the smiles in Thailand anymore towards westerners, certainly the onerous immigration changes in the last year or so aren't particularly smiley.

Just posting this as food for thought.

I don't pretend to have any definitive answers on such grand questions. 

Edited October 21, 2019 by Jingthing

[Jingthing 66,462]

6 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

I think that comparing Latin America to SE Asia is like chalk and cheese-what is "right" for one group of expats is not neccessarily right for the other so I agree with you that very few expats in Thailand would consider relocating to say..Colombia.. as the cultures are entirely different.

 

Possibly of more interest to Norte Americanos or Canadians due to closer proximity.

 

I thoroughly enjoyed my travels thru Latin America but it never once enterered my mind to consider living there.

 

On a personal note I was with a Chilean woman at the time and SHE made the average Thai woman look like a meek and mild little lamb-and we all know that that is not true..

Yes well we all have different experiences.

Years ago I did a lot of exploration in Latin America as part of my research to decide where to possibly expatriate. 

I did feel an attraction to some Latin American nations but I was too young for a pension and generally the Latin American nations have pension based retirement visas.

Then I found Thailand and the combination of low costs, easy bank account based visas, and of course the fact that I did enjoy staying in the country proved irresistible to me as it has to so many others.

 

I do think it's very common for Americans and Canadians considering retiring abroad to usually think about Latin America FIRST before any other alternatives. 

 

Similar to Brits thinking about Spain and Portugal based on geography. 

 

One curiosity that I've noticed is that a number of vloggers that I've been following in Colombia, Mexico, etc. have moved on to considering living in and vlogging in Asia, generally Vietnam and Thailand. One even moved to China for lucrative work. 

 

I really don't agree that it's unusual at all for people interested in living in Thailand (or Asia) to be interested as well in living in Latin America. Both ways! Of course the regions are quite different but there is overlap in the motivations -- hot or mild weather, great beaches, spicy food in some case, perceived lower costs, "exoticness", etc. 

Edited October 21, 2019 by Jingthing

[CharlieH 27,266]

Troll comment and oversized font post and responses also removed.

 

Please note:

If this topic is not to your liking, move on, there are plenty of other topics available. This topic is clearly of interest to others or it would not have reached 125 pages.

 

[seasia 1,217]

I personally think that for a Brit who has had some European travel experience, some LATAM countries would be less of a culture shock to Thailand/SE Asia.

I also think they would find more similarities in LATAM than Thailand.

 

Yes LATAM countries more of a logical choice for Americans/Canadians than it would be for Brits, who generally favour somewhere in Europe.

 

 

Anyway a friend of mine is coming to the end of a fair length visit to the LATAM region, Cuba, Colombia and Dominican Republic.

I had a bit of news on some prices in Colombia from him, seems good value.

[Jingthing 66,462]

16 minutes ago, seasia said:

I personally think that for a Brit who has had some European travel experience, some LATAM countries would be less of a culture shock to Thailand/SE Asia.

I also think they would find more similarities in LATAM than Thailand.

 

Yes LATAM countries more of a logical choice for Americans/Canadians than it would be for Brits, who generally favour somewhere in Europe.

 

 

Anyway a friend of mine is coming to the end of a fair length visit to the LATAM region, Cuba, Colombia and Dominican Republic.

I had a bit of news on some prices in Colombia from him, seems good value.

Cool.

Do you know specifically where he has visited in Colombia? 
You can't really generalize for the country as a whole about prices.

I do completely understand how many people visit a country in Latin America or anywhere and know fairly quickly that they would never want to live there. That was my feeling about the Dominican Republic. 

Of course the opposite is also true and sometimes first impressions don't turn out to mean much.

I remember when I first visited Pattaya that I thought it was absolutely the most horrible place I'd ever visited. (Now over a decade later ….)

On the other hand upon landing in Chiang Mai for the first time I felt I wanted to move there even before the plane had landed! But never did and don't regret it. 

Edited October 21, 2019 by Jingthing

[Jingthing 66,462]

I'm sure a lot of people have noticed more news stories than usual about political crises all over Latin America. Some from nations that are not really surprising but also some from more surprising places particularly "first world" Chile. Well, here's a theory possibly explaining why.

 

Quote

Why political turmoil is erupting across Latin America

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/why-political-turmoil-is-erupting-across-latin-america/2019/10/10/a459cc96-eab9-11e9-a329-7378fbfa1b63_story.html

 

 

Does such news impact people's decisions to travel to, move to, or leave certain Latin American nations? Yes, it probably does. So far though there hasn't been any kind of exodus of expats from Ecuador (concern yes but that's it) though my understanding is that a fair percentage of expats in Nicaragua have left.

 

So I guess the moral of this story is do your own research and if you're attracted to a nation, decide for yourself whether the political instability risk will impact on your decision or not.

 

Then there is always the timeless and oft ignored advice (I did in Thailand) to rent don't buy and have a go bag ready!

Edited October 21, 2019 by Jingthing

[Jingthing 66,462]

Another vlogger getting settled in in Queretaro Mexico, my "pick" as possibly the most promising safer bigger city option in Mexico if you don't need a beach. She had previously been living and traveling in China. Admittedly this video is short on much useful content (unless you're a fan of tarot cards and crystals ha ha) but it's an example of what 450 USD monthly can get you in Queretaro on Airbnb. Obviously you could do better with a longer term rental. But check out this featured COMMENT!

 

 

 

Quote

Great apartment, you haven’t done a vlog about visas, as far as I know, would be very informative how you deal with them. Thailand is becoming difficult to stay longer term, I think Central and South America is a lot easier, you can get up to 6 months on entry to most countries I believe. Iam from UK.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 22, 2019 by Jingthing

[fhickson 512]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Another vlogger getting settled in in Queretaro Mexico, my "pick" as possibly the most promising safer bigger city option in Mexico if you don't need a beach.

i know mexico. not an option for me unless your the resort type or want to do a gringo ghetto thing and just sit. like living in puerto vallarta, but who wants to live a long time in a small tourist town or at a resort? not my thing.

 

i do know people who are happy in mexico, but they jump back to the states often when it gets a bit much and dont really MOVE to mexico, though they like to rerurn to the states and act like they live in mexico at the slightest opportunity.

 

i asked my retired bud why he does not move to mexico since he goes there so often and its cheaper. he said he would never want to live there permanently. so why does he like it? well, its a fun place to party and kind of laugh at while your there, but you need to get out before it starts to suck. he goes for a month stay about every three months.

Edited October 22, 2019 by fhickson

[Jingthing 66,462]

i know mexico. not an option for me unless your the resort type or want to do a gringo ghetto thing and just sit. like living in puerto vallarta, but who wants to live a long time in a small tourist town or at a resort? not my thing.  

i do know people who are happy in mexico, but they jump back to the states often when it gets a bit much and dont really MOVE to mexico, though they like to rerurn to the states and act like they live in mexico at the slightest opportunity.

 

i asked my retired bud why he does not move to mexico since he goes there so often and its cheaper. he said he would never want to live there permanently. so why does he like it? well, its a fun place to party and kind of laugh at while your there, but you need to get out before it starts to suck. he goes for a month stay about every three months.

 

Well you know such things are really a matter of personal tastes. 

I also know Mexico but haven't been everywhere there of course.

 

The ease of going back and forth to the US and Canada is one of the features there for those that want that.

 

Also some US expats actively use their Medicare from a Mexican base but I assume that would be more common for people living in more Northern places like Baja.

 

I love PV and feel like I could definitely live there but I've done the beach resort city thing already in Thailand plus it's now quite expensive and also horribly hot and humid summers, storms etc.

 

Mexico isn't currently on the top of my Plan B move to Latin America list for a number of reasons but I still clearly see its advantages.

 

If I did go there it would be definitely be to an inland high elevation city such as Queretaro.

 

Anyway this thread isn't about hard selling any particular choice.

 

But it is about that there are some realistic choices in Latin America that may be good for some people where most likely you won't be murdered.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jingthing 66,462]

This couple makes a strong case for why THEY chose Cuenca Ecuador. I think it's worth watching if Cuenca is on your radar. 

 

 

The reasons I have against Cuenca are (just based on reaseach as I haven't been there):

 

-- The weather isn't as mild as the promoters suggest. It often gets quite chilly in those unheated apartments and houses. 

 

-- Gringo price gouging too common

 

-- Air pollution

 

-- Elevation too darned high. It's over the elevation that causes serious health problems for many. 

 

-- Visa issues. Practical timing issues with having the police record documentation from Thailand. Could turn out to be a massively expensive problem for some. 

 

-- Guinea pig as food. No thanks.

 

That said one thing I don't take very seriously as a negative is the recent political unrest there. Those kinds of things come and go and usually don't really matter that much to expats in the long run with exceptions of course (such as Venezuela). 

[Jingthing 66,462]

I wonder if people can relate to this video if you're not a wealthy expat entrepreneur (the niche audience of the Nomad Capitalist youtube channel). Weirdly I can relate to it and I see a connection to this topic (also Thailand, Mexico, and Colombia are mentioned).

 

A connection I see is that the cliché move for western expats leaving Thailand are basically two paths -- go home to your "first world" country or move to a nearby Asean country.

 

This addresses the go home cliché more. It sort of asks -- why would you really want to?

 

BTW, the Nomad Capitalist guy is a big fan of KL, Malaysia. I like it too. I can't qualify for the residence options there but I think you can get 6 month stays on entry. Now that might be an interesting angle, 6 months in KL and then six months in Mexico or Colombia, etc. He tends to buy places though so that would be the trick to arrange housing in different places (and leaves them empty when gone!) where you would feel at home. Living in AirBnBs indefinitely doesn't sound great to me. 

 

Unfortunately there is no way to just fly in to Thailand with no visa and stay six months whenever you want.

 

 

Edited October 23, 2019 by Jingthing

[Mike Teavee 1,611]

On 10/24/2019 at 1:19 AM, Jingthing said:

BTW, the Nomad Capitalist guy is a big fan of KL, Malaysia. I like it too. I can't qualify for the residence options there but I think you can get 6 month stays on entry. Now that might be an interesting angle, 6 months in KL and then six months in Mexico or Colombia, etc.

>>>Skip this part if you have no interest in Malaysia/Philippines

In 2015 I took a redundancy package & spent 15 months using KL (Petaling Jaya) as my base to travel the region from (really enjoyed staying there) I think you may be mistaken about 6 months,  [as a brit] you get 90 days on arrival & there aren't any visas you can apply for except work permit or MM2H (Which as you've alluded to has much higher financial requirements than Thailand)

 

But If I wanted to spend part of my year in Malaysia, it would be in Penang, easy enough to do a Visa run to Thailand from there  

 

As an aside, I have friends who work in KL & have "heard" (cannot find anything to confirm) that they're starting to clamp down on people living there on Visa Exempts, not sure how true this is or whether it would be a problem if you're only living there part of the time, but something to keep in mind/an eye on (Get an MM2H or have a "Plan B"). 

 

Oh & similar in Philippines where they're already looking at putting a cap on the length of time you can extend a Visa on Arrival (NB, as with Thailand, this is the visa that people from countries like India & China get, not to be confused with the Visa Exempt that westerners typically get), again, something to stay on top of (get an SRRV or have a "Plan B")

<<<

 

 

Back to LATAM, I'm retiring sometime within the next 1-3 months & so am looking at visiting a number of countries there with Columbia (& Costa Rica) being top of the list, came across an informative site on getting a long stay visa for Columbia that might be of interest https://medellinguru.com/colombian-visa/

 

Edit to add: Would appreciate any tips on the best way to get from Asia to Columba (Yes I know "By Plane")... Happy to take my time/meander my way there & visit a few interesting places on the way but am really struggling to pick a route & whether to go West-East or East-West (Would prefer the later as I've never gone further than New Zealand flying that way)

 

Edited October 26, 2019 by Mike Teavee