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Expats in Thailand considering moving to Latin America prompted by Thai visa changes


Jingthing

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3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

No.

 

You have to go back a lot further than that . About 2 to 3 BILLION years ago  , of course at one time Thailand and S Ameriaca and Africa were all joined togather .

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11 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Not expats per se, but ... !

Going abroad for affordable medical care can be a "gateway drug" for possible future expatriation. It actually was for me. 

 

 

https://cuencahighlife.com/theres-a-massive-caravan-of-gringo-medical-refugees-waiting-at-the-border-to-enter-mexico/

 

Yes indeed, not just from the US either.

 

Mexico usually ranks very highly for value and standards in dental work. Sometimes no. 1 but depends on what sites one looks at.

 

Sometime back I researched in to dental implant prices.

Mexico seemed to show an average of around US$800 per implant, equating to about 25 K baht, about half the cost of what seems to be the going rate in Thailand ( OK naklua/pattaya specifically )

 

Colombia rated quite highly also. That country ranks at no. 22 in the WHO table for medical standards in the world, highest in Latin America.

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Keeping things balanced without bleeding into fear mongering, here are some expats in Colombia talking about their top three cons of living there. These people are in big cities but most of their comments may apply to small cities as well except for things like traffic and pollution. Of particular interest to expats coming from Thailand is the complaint from an Australian about a lack of good Asian food even in Medellin (it would be better in Bogota and even worse in smaller cities).

 

 

 

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I think this video is really funny, but also has some solid and inspirational advice.

A huge problem with adults learning languages is being afraid to speak at all out of fear that you'll make mistakes and sounding stupid. We tend to like to preserve our dignity.  I also like his tactical tips on how to get people to speak more simply without explicitly needing to tell them that you don't speak Spanish well, to repeat, or to talk more slowly. 

 

 

 

 

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I'm sure many people are aware by now that the conflict in Venezuela has entered a militarized phase. I reckon there will be probably a topic about this coming on the world news forum and that will be the place here to discuss it.

 

In relation to this thread of course non specialized people aren't considering expatriation to Venezuela, but what flows from this historic day will likely have a big impact positive or negative on actual expatriation destinations in Latin America.

 

Particularly and especially Colombia, also Ecuador, and Peru but not really Mexico.

 

 

 

 

 

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On 4/29/2019 at 4:11 PM, Jingthing said:

Keeping things balanced without bleeding into fear mongering, here are some expats in Colombia talking about their top three cons of living there. These people are in big cities but most of their comments may apply to small cities as well except for things like traffic and pollution. Of particular interest to expats coming from Thailand is the complaint from an Australian about a lack of good Asian food even in Medellin (it would be better in Bogota and even worse in smaller cities).

 

 

 

Came across a survey of Expats living in Medellin and one of the questions was what concerns them most living in the city... 

Figure 8. Medellín Living 2016 Reader Survey Results, N=201

 

Full survey here... https://medellinliving.com/2016-reader-survey-results/ (also covers people planning to move to Medellin)

 

What took me to the site was I came across an article on how to obtain a Colombian Visa https://medellinliving.com/retirement-visa/ 

 

 

 

 

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On 4/28/2019 at 2:34 PM, Jingthing said:

Owning a car or not and expatriation to Latin America (or elsewhere). This is probably much more relevant for Americans where a car is almost required. 

 

 

Hi

 

Only just got round to watching that.

He makes some interesting and valid points.

I have noticed that Americans stress how important it is to own a car there ( US ). Curious here, if you lived in an average size US town or city are there not intra town buses ?

 

2nd thing I was surprised at his comment on Americans view of those who do not own a car as "lower than low "

Truth in that or some exaggaration on his part.?

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A lot truth in the majority of the geographical area of the country. Not in cities like Manhattan. Parts where it's practical to not have a car generally have a high premium so there is a contradiction there. Such as near a mass transit station in a city like most with crappy public transport.

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

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Another place to consider in Mexico.

I think someone probably mentioned it here before.

Puebla (4th largest city in Mexico) but more specifically the smaller town of Cholula (population about 80,000) near Puebla. 

I don't know much about this idea yet but so far sounds interesting.

 

Cholula -- a charming historical place drawing a lot of Mexican tourists from not so far away Mexico City but not as yet overrun with gringo expats as happened in San Miguel de Allende

 

Lots of cultural stuff / festivals geared to Mexicans but much more going on than a typical town it's size

 

Known for friendly people (small town vibe) in contrast to big city Puebla

 

Easy town for walking around, probably no need for a car

 

Fantastic food of the state, world famous for dark mole (once tasted, forever craved), also Chile en Nogada also an amazing dish. 

 

Short bus ride to big city services in Puebla

 

So far I am finding that the area has a lower than average problem with cartel violence but I'm sure someone can find scary links suggesting otherwise. But really, not sure about that yet.

 

Lower cost of living than San Miguel

 

Pleasant central Mexico upper altitude weather

 

There is an ancient PYRAMID in the middle of the city. The Spaniards built a church on top of it. (Of course!)

 

So based on limited info, perhaps another good retirement option as is Queretaro. But in some ways perhaps more fit for a quieter retirement than Queretaro as Queretaro is so associated with industry so that it's likely to trend up in prices faster.

 

If you do know about Cholula, please feel welcome to post your impressions, pro and con. 

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More info on Cholula and Puebla.

I hadn't realized a few things. Cholula is a university town. I think that's a plus for retirees. So is Guanajuato and in the U.S. small college towns are often recommended for retirees.

I hadn't realized the elevation is as high as it is. About 7000 feet. That's higher than I want to be but better than 8000. 

Access to Puebla (massive auto industry especially VW) is definitely a feature. The link says Uber to there would be 10 dollars each way. That's an expensive round trip for a regular outing but I'm sure there are buses.

The link seems to mostly confirm the positive things I mentioned before.

Crime is an x factor and specific costs for apartments people would actually want to live is also.

I assume that there won't be massive expat info on Cholula because it's so small and not an expat magnet as there is for Puebla. So it's more of a place for the "pioneer" type expat but that's not necessarily a bad thing. 

 

Look how beautiful it is in the pictures.

 

Quote

What small town in Mexico's interior would be ideal for retirement, having character, walkability, low crime rate, inexpensive housing, restaurants, shopping, reasonably close to an airport and Walmart?

https://www.quora.com/What-small-town-in-Mexicos-interior-would-be-ideal-for-retirement-having-character-walkability-low-crime-rate-inexpensive-housing-restaurants-shopping-reasonably-close-to-an-airport-and-Walmart-Tequisquiapan-might

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Some more on Puebla and Cholula.

Possible deal breaker for some -- earthquake risk (like many places in Mexico) but also an ACTIVE VOLCANO. 

There are actually two towns at the Cholula pyramid, one on each side.

San Pedro Cholula and San Andrés Cholula

San Andrés is the more active touristic one and San Pedro is more sedate.

The area being so high up gets quite chilly during some months. My assumption would be because the colder weather is limited that the typical local apartments probably aren't set up to be heated well. 

Puebla City has a similar population to Chicago so it's only "small" in relation to Mexico City.

So I'm wondering, why not Puebla itself?

Perhaps being in the smaller town would get boring and many people would want to go into Puebla very often, in a similar way to how Jomtien people often go into Pattaya. 

Food-wise the region is considered similarly rich as Oaxaca though of course a different regional style. 

Puebla is being promoted as an exciting gay travel destination alternative to Mexico City as it's rich in bars, dance clubs, and even an active sauna scene. 

If nothing else, Puebla and Cholula are certainly places of touristic interest to those that have already visited the more obvious choices such as Guadalajara, Puerto Vallarta, and Oaxaca. 

Speaking as someone that has travelled widely around the world, I think Americans and Canadians sometimes undervalue Mexico as a travel experience only because it's so close. 

In my experience Mexico for all it's problems is among the most interesting travel destinations in the world and it's food rates up there as well. Living there of course is a bigger commitment. 

 

 

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Health insurance in Colombia revisited.

This sounds like a good contact in Medellin along with a WhatsApp contact.

Remember once you're over 60 (or 61 or 62) it is IMPOSSIBLE to sign up for their private insurance. 

So that might be an incentive for some people to get over there earlier.

A lot of what she is talking about is for the private add on insurance.

The base national insurance is for everybody.

She says it's about 40 dollars a month. Elsewhere I've heard that it's about 12 percent of income. I'm not really sure which.

If you're older this is a mixed bag. You will definitely get the national health program but is it good enough? Hard to say for sure. But at least some cover is a definite. No health screening for that. There is for the private add ons.

 

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I've been to Mexico, Costa Rica, and Belize. I chose Thailand because I feel safer. I can ride my motorbike anywhere anytime and not feel threatened. Unlike in Mexico where it is highly advised to stay on toll roads and avoid secondary roads where bandits, cartels, and killers roam. The paranoia and fear is very real and justified when travelling in Mexico. The military does patrol the main roads, but it's unnerving while being approached by armed, camouflaged 18 year olds at check points. Some would argue that traveling in some gringo enclaves is safe. But who wants to feel like a prisoner in their host country? Another issue that contributes to my general feeling of uneasiness in latin american countries is when I see doors and windows fitted with prison bars and walls topped with glass shards. It kind of kills the community spirit. Thailand isn't perfect. No place is. But at least I don't have to worry about someone beheading me because my family didn't send the ransom money quickly enough. So when everything is taken into consideration; cost of living, health care, infrastructure, culture, friendliness, safety, I'd rather be here. But this is just my opinion.

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23 hours ago, Uptooyoo said:

I've been to Mexico, Costa Rica, and Belize. I chose Thailand because I feel safer. I can ride my motorbike anywhere anytime and not feel threatened. Unlike in Mexico where it is highly advised to stay on toll roads and avoid secondary roads where bandits, cartels, and killers roam. The paranoia and fear is very real and justified when travelling in Mexico. The military does patrol the main roads, but it's unnerving while being approached by armed, camouflaged 18 year olds at check points. Some would argue that traveling in some gringo enclaves is safe. But who wants to feel like a prisoner in their host country? Another issue that contributes to my general feeling of uneasiness in latin american countries is when I see doors and windows fitted with prison bars and walls topped with glass shards. It kind of kills the community spirit. Thailand isn't perfect. No place is. But at least I don't have to worry about someone beheading me because my family didn't send the ransom money quickly enough. So when everything is taken into consideration; cost of living, health care, infrastructure, culture, friendliness, safety, I'd rather be here. But this is just my opinion.

Thanks for sharing your impressions and decision making process. 

As said before, there is no right or wrong answer for all on destination choices including staying home. 

It's not news that many people fear Latin America overall is too dangerous.

I do not share that view at all as my focus is on looking at specific locations in Latin America that may be more than safe enough (and indeed often safer than a typical USA big city). This is also based on my travels to a number of countries there. Even though those experiences were long ago, overall I just didn't feel particularly in danger in most of the places that I visited or stayed for fairly long (like six weeks).

Also to add this topic is not really about a competition between Thailand and anywhere else. Many people (including me) would be fine living in Thailand indefinitely but are reacting to the recent set of onerous visa changes (with threats of more to come) as a warning that the time has come to at least CONSIDER some Plan B options. In my view, Latin America is a particularly rich area of the world to seek these Plan B options especially for expat retirees that do not wish to repatriate.

Perhaps you might want to list the SPECIFIC places in Mexico, Costa Rica, and Belize that you visited and felt were too unsafe.

I mentioned before that I felt that based on a visit that Guadalajara might be too unsafe for comfort to live in, and I think perhaps like you, that was based on more of a "gut feeling" than anything else. Also it's clear that a personal priority for you is safety biking on roads. That's a priority LEVEL ZERO for me. Another good example of how personal priorities can and should influence any destination decision process. 

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On 5/3/2019 at 1:17 PM, Uptooyoo said:

I've been to Mexico, Costa Rica, and Belize. I chose Thailand because I feel safer. I can ride my motorbike anywhere anytime and not feel threatened. Unlike in Mexico where it is highly advised to stay on toll roads and avoid secondary roads where bandits, cartels, and killers roam. The paranoia and fear is very real and justified when travelling in Mexico. The military does patrol the main roads, but it's unnerving while being approached by armed, camouflaged 18 year olds at check points. Some would argue that traveling in some gringo enclaves is safe. But who wants to feel like a prisoner in their host country? Another issue that contributes to my general feeling of uneasiness in latin american countries is when I see doors and windows fitted with prison bars and walls topped with glass shards. It kind of kills the community spirit. Thailand isn't perfect. No place is. But at least I don't have to worry about someone beheading me because my family didn't send the ransom money quickly enough. So when everything is taken into consideration; cost of living, health care, infrastructure, culture, friendliness, safety, I'd rather be here. But this is just my opinion.

Well balanced and realistic assessment.  So far there has been zero back up data on the OP's false scaremongering premise of this thread,  "Expats in Thailand considering moving to Latin America prompted by Thai visa changes".   Unlikely that anyone would want to take such a security risk in order to eat a cup of fruit. 

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On 4/27/2019 at 12:42 PM, Jingthing said:

retirement visa programs also offer paths to permanent residence and/or citizenship based on retirement status. In some case the permanent residence status is actually granted upon approval of the initial application!

Very little incentive for any country to offer permanent residence to retirees, in their final non income-producing years.  In most cases, they are not paying income taxes and are using social infrastructure free of charge.  It is a net negative economically.  Why would any country offer this?  Better hit your economic text books! A long term visa is more than sufficient.

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Some do offer such paths to permanent residence and/or citizenship. It's an attraction to expats when they do. I'm not in the business of knowing why they make attractive offers like that. As far as social services the nations that offer national health inclusion charge for it. It's a buy in thing.

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

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Well balanced and realistic assessment.  So far there has been zero back up data on the OP's false scaremongering premise of this thread,  "Expats in Thailand considering moving to Latin America prompted by Thai visa changes".   Unlikely that anyone would want to take such a security risk in order to eat a cup of fruit. 

Thanks for sharing.   Nobody travels or moves only for a cup of fruit security risks or not.

 

As the cup of fruit you refer to was in. Colombia perhaps you will find this item of interest. Or maybe not. It's all good.

 

 

7 Reasons Everyone Should Consider Retiring In Colombia

 

 

 

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_8098436

 

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

As the cup of fruit you refer to was in. Colombia perhaps you will find this item of interest. Or maybe not. It's all good.

Does the fruit come with a kevlar vest?

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Nomad Guy again. His focus is more on business than retirement but he mentions both to some degree. Like me, he rates MEXICO and COLOMBIA as the top choices in Latin America. Like me, he prioritizes opportunities for permanent residence and citizenship.

 

 

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Cinco de Mayo time.

A little history.

Coincidentally PUEBLA was at the center of this history.

I've watched a number of touristic videos of Puebla and it continues to look quite appealing. At this point I can see it competing with Queretaro as an interesting option in Mexico. A typical comment -- it's like a more "chill" Mexico City. What are the differences with Queretaro? Well I may be wrong but so far I've got these --

Puebla colder weather

Queretaro has a wine country

Puebla's focus is auto industry, Queretaro more diverse high tech

Puebla closer to Mexico City

Puebla has active volcano

Puebla larger population than Queretaro

Puebla somewhat less expensive than Queretaro

Both have amazing colonial central districts, Puebla's is bigger, Queretaro ahs more fountains

Puebla has the edge for foodies.

Puebla has the edge for gay people. Now it that only because of the larger population or is Puebla more socially liberal than Queretaro? I don't know.

Both have some but limited Anglo expats

 

 

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16 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Colombian street food was asked about before. Here are some samples. I don't find it exciting but the over the top fruit cup starting at 7:50 seems cool. 

 

 

 

Fruit cup mountain,wondered when she would stop adding.

 

Just a personal observation,the street food shown seems to be overly fussy. Too many different items in the same serve.

Chances high there would be something within that I would not like, which would spoil the whole thing.

 

Nice food art for sure.

 

The burger shown at the start would probably be fine but why so many add ons ?

 

I guess the beef itself would be fairly good, just some tomato/onion and a dash of sauce . That would do.

 

We do of course all have different tastes.

 

I watched a Cartegena you tube clip earlier, couple of young backpackers, on a budget,  they found a restaurant serving a modest size steak, with rice and a salad for US$ 3.25. 100 baht or so. Looked good to me..

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Yeah, well my impression is that Colombian people eat less of their "meals" on the street than in Thailand. One thing I really don't like about Colombian food culture is that they deep fry their empanadas. I love baked Argentinian ones. Maybe some oddball places in Colombia bake them too but that's not typical. 

 

Anyway, it's not fair to say for sure without having even visited Colombia but I'm pretty sure for my tastes Mexico definitely beats Colombia in the food department. You can't have everything you want in one place.

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People were joking about this before but here he is -- a real deal Gringo Cheap Charlie and he's living in Puebla Mexico and he seems to be loving it. His rent is absurd -- under 1000 baht a month. That's not a typo. A month. Seems like a cool dude, self described HOBO, and he talks about some of the practicalities of living there. Safety. Public transport. Cheap eats. Discusses the geographical advantages of Puebla being so central in the country. I'm curious about what kind of visa he is on … if any.

 

BTW, that concrete bunker in the video, is that his room?

 

 

 

 

 

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22 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Thanks for sharing your impressions and decision making process. 

As said before, there is no right or wrong answer for all on destination choices including staying home. 

It's not news that many people fear Latin America overall is too dangerous.

I do not share that view at all as my focus is on looking at specific locations in Latin America that may be more than safe enough (and indeed often safer than a typical USA big city). This is also based on my travels to a number of countries there. Even though those experiences were long ago, overall I just didn't feel particularly in danger in most of the places that I visited or stayed for fairly long (like six weeks).

Also to add this topic is not really about a competition between Thailand and anywhere else. Many people (including me) would be fine living in Thailand indefinitely but are reacting to the recent set of onerous visa changes (with threats of more to come) as a warning that the time has come to at least CONSIDER some Plan B options. In my view, Latin America is a particularly rich area of the world to seek these Plan B options especially for expat retirees that do not wish to repatriate.

Perhaps you might want to list the SPECIFIC places in Mexico, Costa Rica, and Belize that you visited and felt were too unsafe.

I mentioned before that I felt that based on a visit that Guadalajara might be too unsafe for comfort to live in, and I think perhaps like you, that was based on more of a "gut feeling" than anything else. Also it's clear that a personal priority for you is safety biking on roads. That's a priority LEVEL ZERO for me. Another good example of how personal priorities can and should influence any destination decision process. 

You would not see or feel danger in those places, but it is real. 

 

I personally have no problem with the army patrol guys. They can be cool and many of them try to be intimidating, but they are just doing their jobs. I have gone through about 200 check points in Mexico and the worst I got was once the guys asked me to smoke some pot with them (we were out in the middle of nowhere). I declined multiple times of course, even I am not that dumb. 

 

I am far from an alarmist, believe me. But you are asking for it living in a country like Mexico as a retied expat. It can be any place. As he is getting at, there is an element there and in the countries he listed that is either on drugs, or gangs who make income from foreigner robberies, and if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time it is probably going to happen. Best case scenario you have to worry about it and be super vigilant all the time, which is just not the case in Thailand and that, as he was saying, is a huge positive. But, as we all know, there are many retired in those places happily, but the bottom line is his assertions were correct.... you can walk away from your vehicle for 10 minutes in many spots down there and come out with broken windows in broad daylight. It is just a whole other world relative to Thailand. 

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