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BANGKOK 25 March 2019 14:51
fvw53

is not receiving an invoice a legal pretext to refuse to pay common fees in condomium

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In our Condominium there is now finally a serious effort to clean up 10 years of mismanagement ...yes there is a new Committee and there is a new Juristic Person.

A big issue is now that in the past only 1/3 of the co-owners paid regularly the common fees regardless if they got an invoice or not : they knew the surface of their unit and the common fee charge per square meter.

The other 2/3 did not pay regularly or never paid and the management company is charging them the penalties as prescribed in Section 36/6 of the Thai Condo Act 2008.

We are now facing uprising from co-owners who claim they never paid the common fees because they never got an invoice...so they refuse to pay the penalties

Until now nobody could reply to the question if a co-owner has the right to refuse or neglect paying common fees if he or she did not get an invoice (it could mean invoices have to be sent by registered letter)

 

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Suggest you would be better placed with this in the Real Estate forum.

 

MOVED

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As in most situations like this you ask to pay by bank transfer then you have a supporting legal record.

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The office should have records of all previous invoices.....he said she said isn't a defence

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11 hours ago, fvw53 said:

We are now facing uprising from co-owners who claim they never paid the common fees because they never got an invoice...so they refuse to pay the penalties

The common fee will be a regular fixed part of your building rules and regulations and so cannot be ignored, regardless of whether an invoice was received or not.

 

Any supplementary fee would be exceptional and of a fixed duration, but it would (or should) have formed an official part of a general meeting and been voted on by co-owners, and the positive result of that vote should have been reported in the minutes. As long as it was so voted and reported then it is a valid fee and also cannot be ignored.

 

If the fee was just something imposed on a whim by management or the committee without a co-owner vote then I doubt that it could be justified.

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QUOTE:  "In our Condominium there is now finally a serious effort to clean up 10 years of mismanagement ...yes there is a new Committee and there is a new Juristic Person.'

 

I assume this is a result of a large number of owners complaining.

 

So just wondering is those that now refuse to pay because no invoice are the same folks who complained about management and wanted better management.

 

A question 'which way do you want it?' Support the improved situation or try to pull it down? 

 

 

 

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Is there any mechanism to force non payers to pay?

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52 minutes ago, john2211 said:

Is there any mechanism to force non payers to pay?

We had this problem with one co-owner. Refused to pay for over 2 years. We finally sent him a letter from our lawyer. The only option is to take them to court. I suggest negotiating about the penalties.

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9 hours ago, KittenKong said:

The common fee will be a regular fixed part of your building rules and regulations and so cannot be ignored, regardless of whether an invoice was received or not.

 

Any supplementary fee would be exceptional and of a fixed duration, but it would (or should) have formed an official part of a general meeting and been voted on by co-owners, and the positive result of that vote should have been reported in the minutes. As long as it was so voted and reported then it is a valid fee and also cannot be ignored.

 

If the fee was just something imposed on a whim by management or the committee without a co-owner vote then I doubt that it could be justified.

Many co-owners accepted to pay the arrears and the penalties as they were voted a long time ago. The question is that other co-owners refuse to pay the penalties because they say that they got no invoices (=requests to pay) /  if this pretext is legally acceptable then those who already paid the penalties will be furious if others can use this pretext and escape from the penalties.

See Section 18 of Thai Condo Act 2008 here under :

 

Section 18/1 In the case where a joint owner fails to make payments set forth under Section 18 with the prescribed time, such joint owner shall pay surcharge at the rate not exceeding twelve percents (12%) per year of the amount unpaid without compound interest charging provided, however, that this shall be in accordance with the requirements set forth under the Bylaws.

A joint owner with an amount in arrears under Section 18 from six months and upwards shall pay surcharge at the rate not exceeding twenty percents (20%) per year and may be suspended from receiving common services or using common property as set forth under the By-laws including the non-existence of the right to vote in the General Meeting.

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1 hour ago, Jeffkp said:

We had this problem with one co-owner. Refused to pay for over 2 years. We finally sent him a letter from our lawyer. The only option is to take them to court. I suggest negotiating about the penalties.

Who has the authority to "negotiate" penalties prescribed by the law : the Manager of the Juristic Person ?  The Committee ? the Annual General Meeting?...or the Thai courts?

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9 hours ago, KittenKong said:

The common fee will be a regular fixed part of your building rules and regulations and so cannot be ignored, regardless of whether an invoice was received or not.

 

Any supplementary fee would be exceptional and of a fixed duration, but it would (or should) have formed an official part of a general meeting and been voted on by co-owners, and the positive result of that vote should have been reported in the minutes. As long as it was so voted and reported then it is a valid fee and also cannot be ignored.

 

If the fee was just something imposed on a whim by management or the committee without a co-owner vote then I doubt that it could be justified.

Our bylaws say payment is due after an invoice is received. Review your bylaws. 

 

The bylaws should also state what the current fee amount is and yes, they should reflect what the majority voted for and these meeting minutes duly registered and the bylaws updated.

 

It seems logical since fee collection has been so mismanaged for so long, that you provide each owner an account statement showing fees paid and showing what is owned and when it must be paid up by, say within 90 days. If not paid by then, you start assessing late fee payment charges. 

 

By law, after 6 months of unpaid fees the JP Mgr can sell their property. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Jeffkp said:

I suggest negotiating about the penalties.

 

Yes, I reckon after 10 years of mis-management you need to take a pragmatic approach.

 

For the non payers - To avoid the penalties.

  • Start paying now.
  • Pay a percentage of owed back fee.

Fail in the above and the full force of owed fees and penalties and the law come in to play.

 

 

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You could also call an EGM and have a resolution to forgive past unpaid fees or pay reduced fees. This of course applies to all owners, so any owners who did pay their fees should get the appropriate refund or credit. 

 

Does your management actually have 10 years of good accounting records to carry out such a plan? 

 

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21 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

As in most situations like this you ask to pay by bank transfer then you have a supporting legal record.

this happen at my friend's building, he has a unit but leaves in another city, never received an invoice but from his contract he knows how much to be paid and every year send a wire transfer to juristic condo bank account, recently they changed juristic person and the account showed a huge debt because many homeowners didn't pay, they use the no invoice excuse and he shut them off by showing his transfer, homeowners should know their responsibilities

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