65,000 baht monthly turned down

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, spambot said:

Mnnnn - Good Info here:

 

• JackThompson -You don't need "Thai" bank statements to get a Non-O from a consulate abroad - money proof in any bank will do. 
• JackThompson And in Penang, you should be able to get a 1-year Non-O-ME based on retirement, also - vs the single-entry.
• JackThompson You can get a letter from the USA embassy in KL - they only stopped them in Thailand

If i am reading this right then the following is possible:

 

1. If you have 800K THB (equivalent) in a non Thai bank you can go to KL USA embassy and get an Income letter. - Is an income letter available from the British Embassy?
2. Take the income letter to Penang and apply for 1 year Non O multi entry, based upon retirement.
3. Then leave every 90 days, but get nearly 15 months if last entry is well timed.

- Have I got this correct?

 

I have read reports of others (and responded to clarify it was true) that documents from the USA-Embassy in KL were acceptable to Thai-consular officials in Malaysia.  I do not know what the UK offers.

 

I think many will soon be getting 1-year-Non-O-MEs based on retirement soon.  Many more will get Non-OAs from their passport-country. 

 

It is reported the UK Thai consulate now wants 3 mo seasoning on the 800K for the Non-OA there (previously no seasoning) - though at least UKer's money could remain in the UK - ideally well-invested and not pulled in and out of investment-portfolios to satisfy insane-demands by Thai immigration.  But, I don't know what types of accounts are permitted for this purpose (would vary by consulate).

 

I expect this 3-mo seasoning requirement could happen at nearby consulates offering the Non-O-MEs based on retirement, also - or they could simply be discontinued, forcing more who have the qualifying 800K or 65K income (but not all in Thailand) to payoff immigration via their partner-agents, instead.

Edited March 8, 2019 by JackThompson

[theoldgit]

1 hour ago, Russell17au said:

The embassies did not keep the records of their "customers" including the email addresses or the actual street addresses to send letters to

The British Embassy used to, they encouraged Brits to register with them so they could be advised of any natural disasters or, just maybe, a change in local laws which might affect "customers".

 

I think wgdansons reference to the term "customers" has a hint of irony about it, because that's how some Consulates refer to their citizens who have to use their services, at least the British Embassy do.

[JackThompson]

19 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

I've never once had a problem with Immigration Department in over 30 years. Nothing clever about me, I just follow the rules.

Keep rolling the dice and good luck.  They will "get around" to you (all of us), eventually.

 

15 minutes ago, inlandchris said:

Yes, some high official got mad because of all the cheats and now everybody has to pay for the cheats, human nature.

It was those avoiding paying off the higher ups - via the agent multi-level-marketing loot-distribution network - which prompted the changes.  They want more previously-qualifying honest-applicants to pay them off (like the cheats always have) - not less. 

 

The same happened with the ED, where IOs at many offices never cared (and still don't) if you actually "attend classes or not" - just want tribute-loot from every foreigner "getting away" with being in - and spending their money in - Thailand.

[xylophone]

4 hours ago, connda said:

We'll see an accelerating influx of posts like this over the year, and then watch the fun come March 2020 as retirees who have significant investment in Thailand (condos, vehicles, etc) are kicked out of the country. It's time to have a plan B or plan C.  They should just put a sign up at all immigration portal advising retirees to look elsewhere.

Don't disagree with your post on the whole, however a few expats whom I have spoken to where I am and who will be affected by the new rules, have taken it calmly and simply said that they will use an agent to get round the 800k or whatever method they can find.

 

I thought there would be widespread panic, but doesn't seem so at the moment?

[Russell17au]

5 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

The British Embassy used to, they encouraged Brits to register with them so they could be advised of any natural disasters or, just maybe, a change in local laws which might affect "customers".

 

I think wgdansons reference to the term "customers" has a hint of irony about it, because that's how some Consulates refer to their citizens who have to use their services, at least the British Embassy do.

But let's be honest! The bloody embassies were too lazy to verify the income for their citizens which would be a simple thing to do for those on government pensions and you think they would bother to send out emails or letters. That would mean that some lazy bastard would have to do some work, come on back to the real world.

[CMNightRider]

43 minutes ago, moe666 said:

There are a lot of people out there who do not rad TV and they know nothing about the new changes until they go for their extension. Who is at fault on that one. It always seems that it is someone elses fault here on Thai Visa, it is the insividuals responsibility to keep up with the news so that they are prepared for changes. The people I talk to here in CM are making small adjustments to the new processes in place and they are prepared for their next extension. Individuals have to take responsibility for their extension blaming others and expecting some miracle when you show up will nor get you that extension

There are a lot of westerners who live in Thailand, who don't read Thai Visa daily for good reason.  Then there is another large segment of retired westerners who reside in Thailand, who take several international trips yearly to Europe, US, and countries near Thailand.  

 

Out of all the publications most people enjoy reading, what Thai Immigration does or doesn't do during the year tends to be a very low priority for most people.  Also worth noting, this group tends to view Thai Immigrations recent demand westerners keep their money in Thai banks as idiotic and self serving.

 

However, I can see why individuals as yourself who tend to stay in Thailand year round, and enjoy reading Thai Visa would be mystified as to why anyone would not be aware of Thai Immigrations most recent financial demands for foreigners to keep their funds in a third world banking system.   Then to top that off, some of the Western Embassies decided with short notice not to furnish "Income Affidavit Letters."

 

Anyway, thank you for sharing your apologetic thoughts. I certainly didn't mean to cast blame on you or any other Thai Visa member.  I merely pointed out the groups involved in playing a part in making it more difficult for Western retirees to live in Thailand.  Personally, I believe we are viewing the tip of the iceberg.  I look forward to seeing immigrations next hurdle or goal post move.  It should happen before the end of the year.  ????   

 

       

 

       

[spambot]

20 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I have read reports of others (and responded to clarify it was true) that documents from the USA-Embassy in KL were acceptable to Thai-consular officials in Malaysia.  I do not know what the UK offers.

 

I think many will soon be getting 1-year-Non-O-MEs based on retirement soon.  Many more will get Non-OAs from their passport-country. 

 

It is reported the UK Thai consulate now wants 3 mo seasoning on the 800K for the Non-OA there (previously no seasoning) - though at least UKer's money could remain in the UK - ideally well-invested and not pulled in and out of investment-portfolios to satisfy insane-demands by Thai immigration.  But, I don't know what types of accounts are permitted for this purpose (would vary by consulate).

 

I expect this 3-mo seasoning requirement could happen at nearby consulates offering the Non-O-MEs based on retirement, also - or they could simply be discontinued, forcing more who have the qualifying 800K or 65K income (but not all in Thailand) to payoff immigration via their partner-agents, instead.

Ahhh - Brilliant response JackThompson

 

This answers a question I sent to London Thai Embassy earlier this week - I asked purposely just a single question"How many original statements were required for the O-A application?"

 

When the email response cam back saying 3 months was needed and gave me a link, but the website actually indicated that just a single month statement was required - I copy pasted the web site detail that showing requirement for a single statement and I emailed this back. And on this second email I now asked the single question:"Thank you for your response - You have specified 3 months of statements for O-A application, but the link you have provided me with shows only a single statement is required, can you clarify?" This last email was never responded to!

 

You just gave me the answer why - its probably just about saving face in that the rules have changed, but the website hasn't.

Edited March 8, 2019 by spambot

[theoldgit]

12 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

But let's be honest! The bloody embassies were too lazy to verify the income for their citizens which would be a simple thing to do for those on government pensions and you think they would bother to send out emails or letters. That would mean that some lazy bastard would have to do some work, come on back to the real world.

I never suggested that the Consular Staff would send out emails, I was just clarifying your incorrect statement and confirming that in the real world some Consulates do maintain a list of their Nationals in Thailand, or at least used to, maybe their Nationals don't update their details so the list couldn't be relied on.

[fforest1]

27 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Getting-hell at every extension, at some offices.  Often, denials of extensions entirely, w/o reasonable cause related to the de-facto/de-jure nature of the relationship (been there, done that). 

 

Also, at some offices (including CW), taking away applicant's access to their funds for longer periods of time during a 1 or 2 mo "under consideration" period.  The "consideration" period serves no purpose, other than to increase agent-fees for those applications to pay for the district-official's sign-off, and make the local IOs more reluctant to process them w/o an "extra" financial incentive.

 

Given 28 days notice for these last changes, perhaps weekly-checks with immigration are required?  But even if folks checked weekly, they would get varying stories.  The new rules are still unclear in terms of enforcement and how the combo will work. Only "what happened to me today" stories - differing per-office - seem to have any real value.

 

For folks who Were Encouraged To Retire here by the Thai authorities, based on meeting a now-defunct standard (which has been changed repeatedly before - with only one case of grandfathering), a 1-year minimum should exist for any changes.  Even small changes would be presented upon submission of the current application using the existing-rules, providing the applicant a full-year to prepare for changes or leave (which is still awful - should all be grandfathered if any common-decency standard existed).

 

And regarding the embassies - this applies to them as well:

Exactly.

Not grandfathering all these visa changes on the one year extensions is not only disrespectful but almost evil.....People make major plans for their retirement in Thailand based on the CURRENT visa requirements... 

[JackThompson]

15 minutes ago, spambot said:

You just gave me the answer why - its probably just about saving face in that the rules have changed, but the website hasn't.

I read a post yesterday claiming the website had been updated recently.

[wgdanson]

38 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

for those on government pensions

Government pension of 400 quid a week? 

[The Theory]

“Again the 65,000Baht method is what I have done for nearly a decade here.”

If OP saved 10% per month, he would not have any problem now.

no savings after a decade !!!  ????

[LivinLOS]

On 3/6/2019 at 9:53 AM, bunta71 said:

My wife is a filipina...really have no clue as to why I do not qualify....and I was very clear as to the 65,000 income for a retirement ext. Lived here for many years and always did the same. I realize I don't qualify for the O-A, was doing a non-O, I was instructed by two immigration officials to go get an O-A in Penang....and who am I to argue with two of them

 

 

An incountry extension of your permission of stay is 65k.. A new visa is consul dependent and usually 400k in the bank. 

[flexomike]

3 hours ago, wgdanson said:

How would someone who does not go onto TVisa or other expat forum get to know about these changes, until he goes to do his extension exactly as he has done for the past many years. Surely the Emabassies involved (UK, USA, Aus & Dmk) ought to have emailed or sent a letter to every one of it's ''customers' who have been doing their letters of Income there.

If you are registered with the American Embassy you would have gotten information on the changes

[flexomike]

3 hours ago, wgdanson said:

I just was at IO in Phitsanulok and showed Jan ,Feb & March's 65k FTT transfers. Asked if this was OK if I do another 9. NO PROBLEM, and spend it ALL if you want to.

Lucy you, was at Rayong Immigration and they stated that they wanted to see twelve months, will be doing my extension next month, I have the 800,000 but am going to try the 65,000 first, did the bank have to do a special letter for you showing the monthly deposits

 

3 hours ago, wgdanson said:

I just was at IO in Phitsanulok and showed Jan ,Feb & March's 65k FTT transfers. Asked if this was OK if I do another 9. NO PROBLEM, and spend it ALL if you want to.

 

[thaijoe]

its only going to get worse . like i said before ,leave that sh** country . thai people don't want us there

[jimn]

I do have a degree of sympathy with the OP, as he has been caught own by not knowing the rules for obtaining an extension. If the OP had planned on getting a retirement extension to his previous Non O visa under the old rules he should have been planning to have 800k in a Thai bank account for 2 months or whilst he still could an income affidavit from the US embassy then he could have used his US income as proof. Obviously the new rules require 800k 2 or 3 months before and 3 months after not dropping below 400k after that in a Thai bank account or 65k monthly into a Thai bank. Unfortunately ingnorance of the rules is a poor arguement, as was his bad advice to go to KL to get a Non OA visa. Anyone who has done any research should know you can only get from your home country. It looks like there are going to be many like him going forward who are ignorant of the rules. Many people will be forced to use agents and yes they are still operating in Pattaya. Problem being once you use them under the new rules you will be locked into them. If you decide to renew your extension yourself after using an agent you will have to show the money in the bank for the previous 12, if you previously used an agent, it will be hard to show the proof for renewal.

[Pib]

6 minutes ago, jimn said:

 Many people will be forced to use agents and yes they are still operating in Pattaya. Problem being once you use them under the new rules you will be locked into them. If you decide to renew your extension yourself after using an agent you will have to show the money in the bank for the previous 12, if you previously used an agent, it will be hard to show the proof for renewal.

[Lovethailandelite]

5 hours ago, JackThompson said:

I read a post yesterday claiming the website had been updated recently.

Updated Tuesday night/Wednesday morning. London time.

[balo]

8 hours ago, thaijoe said:

its only going to get worse . like i said before ,leave that sh** country . thai people don't want us there

If you hate it so much I suggest you change your username. 

 

[andyman57]

Do what I did move to the Philippines after 20years in Thailand it's so easy here

[Skallywag]

20 hours ago, BertM said:

If he has a child under age 19 and he is on SS or SS Disability, then he can get an extra check for that child until that child graduates high school or turns 19 whichever comes first. Also, if his spouse is a US citizen or is a non-US citizen who has lived in US for more than 5 years, then she would qualify to get SS when she reached 62 yrs of age and she could receive up to 1/2 of his SS FRA amount at her FRA age. His bank statement shows 2 checks, one for $1,745 and one for $940, so the $940 check is either the spouse's check or the child's check being deposited into that US bank account.

Yes I assumed a lot of things here.  SS Disability I did not consider as the poster obviously knows how to spell and type and construct sentences, so assumed he is not disabled to the point he cannot work in data entry or something similar.  He did say family also - so that would mean children.  Spouse at FRA would have had to been at least 47 when having their "family" - so thought that would be too old.  Spouse is filipina, so assumed not eligible for SS as he has lived in asia for 10 years.  Obviously if he was married with her in the USA more than 10 years ago she could have worked there long enough to earn SS....

Thai Immigration wants YOUR income - not your spouse or childs income is my guess.  

[Skallywag]

20 hours ago, Russell17au said:

More incorrect information from someone who HAS NOT ready the new police order or read all the threads on here about this. Correct information is 800,000 baht deposited in your Thai bank account for 2 months before your extension application and it must remain in the account for a further 3 months after your application has been approve and then the account must have a minimum of 400,000 baht for the remainder of the time until 2 months before your next extension application when the amount must be increased to 800,000 baht again.

Yes, I misquoted the regulations, 2 months before 3 months after 400,000 after that. 

 

I planned ahead before getting retirement visa.  Keep 800,000 baht in a separate thai bank account.  Dont hassle with the 7 months of investing $12.5K USD in the stock market hoping to get a better return. 

 

 

 

[KhaoYai]

On 3/7/2019 at 4:16 AM, JackThompson said:

A 1-year Multiple-Entry Non-O based on retirement has been reported successful at Penang and Savannakhet - which may be the best solution for those who want to keep the required financial-qualifications (income or funds on-deposit) in non-Thai banks.  The downside of this workaround are border-bounces every 90-days.

Really? I thought they only issued them based on marriage? Surely a ME Non O based on retirement is an O-A and as such is supposed to be issued by your country of residence, accompanied by financials, police reports etc.?

[ubonjoe]

15 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Surely a ME Non O based on retirement is an O-A and as such is supposed to be issued by your country of residence, accompanied by financials, police reports etc.?

A non-o visa only allows a 90 day entry. A OA visa allows a one year entry so the are certainly not the same visa.

[EricTh]

On 3/6/2019 at 4:53 PM, bunta71 said:

My wife is a filipina...really have no clue as to why I do not qualify....and I was very clear as to the 65,000 income for a retirement ext. Lived here for many years and always did the same. I realize I don't qualify for the O-A, was doing a non-O, I was instructed by two immigration officials to go get an O-A in Penang....and who am I to argue with two of them

 

 

 

I am not sure whether you know that all these foreign bank statements can be forged easily in this digital age. If you have the money, why didn't you transfer to Thai banks as required.

 

There are more than 100 countries in the world, do you expect immigration to verify the authenticity of all the documents in different languages etc?

 

Furthermore, the deposit is every month for the last 12 months and not just for one month.

Edited March 9, 2019 by EricTh

[EricTh]

On 3/7/2019 at 5:03 AM, Number 6 said:

A note to everyone.

 

Just assume the income deposit method dead. Have 4/800k in the bank three months prior and keep no less than 400k in the bank after (balance of year). Foolproof.

 

Barring that, find another country or return home.

 

Things have changEd - past tense, meaning they already have changed, not that they are in the process of changing.

 

OP - Savanakhet. Penang unfriendly fir a decade but understand you're already in Malaysia.

 

It is 800K 2 months before application date and another 3 months after. total 5 months of 800k.

[EricTh]

On 3/8/2019 at 7:56 AM, connda said:

If I was married to a Filipina, we'd be packed up and moving to The PI.  At what point do you keep pushing against a county who patently does not want foreigners here, just their money.

 

 

If one was married to a Filipina, he should move to Philippines (and not Thailand) which is equally low in cost of living. 

 

If one was married to a Thai girl, the natural choice would be Thailand.

[CMNightRider]

3 hours ago, EricTh said:

 

I am not sure whether you know that all these foreign bank statements can be forged easily in this digital age. If you have the money, why didn't you transfer to Thai banks as required.

 

There are more than 100 countries in the world, do you expect immigration to verify the authenticity of all the documents in different languages etc?

 

Furthermore, the deposit is every month for the last 12 months and not just for one month.

It looks to me this would be a wonderful opportunity for Western Embassies (American Embassy for one) to step up the plate and offer "Income Verification Letters" to citizens of their countries residing in Thailand.  At $50.00 a letter, it becomes lucrative for the Embassies to offer this service.  

 

The American Embassy didn't have a problem with producing the "Income Affidavit Letters" which required absolutely no work and shamelessly charged $50.00 a letter.  They could offer the same service with minimal work offering an "Income Verification Letter."  

 

This service would allow foreign retirees to continue banking and using brokerage firms in their perspective countries, rather than keeping their money in a Thai bank collecting dust.  

 

As for the people who are not interesting in investing and creating passive income to enhance their monthly pensions, then by all means deposit what Thai Immigration wants so the Thai banks can prosper instead of you.  

 

This is not rocket science, so please give the forgery conspiracies a rest.  It is only a one year Thai visa extension, and not some massive illegal money making scheme which would require forgery skills. ????       

[streetlite]

I am a US citizen. Because of the IAT format I decided to use Transferwise to send money to my Bangkok bank account. This is a recent message from TW:

"When we send funds out to your recipient, the money will come from our local bank account in that country. For example, when we send to recipient’s in Thailand, the money will be sent from our local Thailand account. Being that the money is coming from a local bank account in that country, it would not be an international transfer and won’t appear this way."

Can anyone verify otherwise? I have TW set up as a borderless account.