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BANGKOK 20 March 2019 06:46
BestB

Problems with accountant, need some advice

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Question is for Thailand based business owners.

 

Have been having nothing but trouble with my current accountant for past 12 months so.

 

Lately its gotten too much so looking for advice or suggestions on what my options are.

 

Latest problem, went to extend my business visa, she prepared all the documents as she does every year for which i pay.

 

Submit all the paperwork to immigration and cut the story short, turns out last month for social security payment, even though she provided payment receipt, was never actually made.

 

When i asked her, she replied, she paid but can not find the original, but will go pay AGAIN tomorrow and provide original.

 

Naturally immigration smelt a rat, as she did provide payment receipts, originally, only as it turns out a fake one.

 

SO they asked to see original receipts for previous 2 months, Now as it turned out, even though she provided payment receipts of 4 staff, she only really paid for 2.

 

I pay monthly full amounts but as it turns out it is not what she pays, anyhow problems with extensions,

 

Fast forward to current month.

 

She suppose to pick up all documents on the 1 or 2 of each month to then invoice for service fee and all the taxes, this month she has not shown up or called and its already the 6th

 

So contacted her today, reminding , response was "kha" and still no show.

 

Personal tax payments deadline is the 7th and then 200 baht fine or something along the lines.

 

I am changing accountants, no question about that, but naturally want to finish it off in a nice way because i have no idea what she has ready done with my accounts for past 4-5 years. and last thing i want or need is a rat. BUT at the same time if she is not picking up documents and not paying taxes, it puts me in a difficult position and i may need to press.

 

I could demands all company papers, which she may or may not return, may return in full or may "loose" some important parts.

 

I could get police assistance, but prefer not too, what are my options? if to go down the unpleasant route, where would i start? 

 

In essence, she has been forging payment receipts, she has been stealing money, how much and how often i do not know, she may well have done something more stupid, but i do not know until i see all the paperwork or get a knock on the door.

 

Useful and knowledgeable replies much appreciated

 

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Moral of the story here is always do your accounting yourself in Thailand. Sorry I can't be of more help.. Best of luck and do it all yourself in the future. 

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I would never trust anyone here with money. That includes lawyers and accountants.

 

I think you need to try and find a more honest accountant who can go back through everything that the other one has done to check for other irregularities.

 

And you could try filing a lawsuit against the first accountant, but that will probably only make Thai lawyers rich. As a precursor to that you could try your local Consumer Protection office who may be able to put some pressure on the first accountant. http://www.ocpb.go.th/

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Change your accountant. Be aware that she has your accounts for this year and last year, and also it is getting near the time when your annual accounts need to be finished and certified.

 

Part on amicable terms and be absolutely sure to get your previous accounts.

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1 minute ago, blackcab said:

Change your accountant. Be aware that she has your accounts for this year and last year, and also it is getting near the time when your annual accounts need to be finished and certified.

 

Part on amicable terms and be absolutely sure to get your previous accounts.

That is exactly what my plan was/is to let her finish off this month and then move, but as i explained its not happening.

 

Personal tax already late and i will be fined, how much longer should i hold it off? 

 

This is why i am looking for advice on where or how i could put pressure from the top? or is it possible at all?

 

PS. Balance sheets and audits  were just finished last month.

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I think you need a 'sit down" with her, keep it all pleasant dont make her feel threatened or vulnerable.Retrieve what you can there and then. Then move forward with your next step. If she feels rumbled or potential trouble ahead lord knows what she may do to cover her tracks and create a sh*t storm for you. I would tread very carefully here. (Imho)

Best of luck.

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1 minute ago, CharlieH said:

I think you need a 'sit down" with her, keep it all pleasant dont make her feel threatened or vulnerable.Retrieve what you can there and then. Then move forward with your next step. If she feels rumbled or potential trouble ahead lord knows what she may do to cover her tracks and create a sh*t storm for you. I would tread very carefully here. (Imho)

Totally agree, only she is not showing up since last cork up with fake receipts

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I think you might need to check your year end has been audited and filed correctly.

 

Audit fees can be substantial, and all it would take would be a quick photocopy and a fake signature. Just saying.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Boomhauer said:

Moral of the story here is always do your accounting yourself in Thailand. Sorry I can't be of more help.. Best of luck and do it all yourself in the future. 

Do yourself or...

 

An old buddy from UK was in business here for a couple of decades, made good money, sold the business and retired.

 

One evening the 'accountant' came up for discussion and this is what he mentioned, which he had learned from problems when the bus. first started:

 

- Insist, strongly if needed that all accounting records had to be on his desk by 9.00 am on the 1st of the month.

 

- For items like banking a a copy of the full months daily bank statements had to be included and the accountant knew that 4 or 5 times a year he would immediately take all of these records to the bank, accompanied by the accountant, no mention in advance, to ask for a certificate, on the spot from the bank, accountant had to sit with him but not allowed to speak to the bank staff.

 

- Every month he would indicate 3 or 4 items that had to be proven immediately on request from other records, Social Security payments was one checked regularly, payment of various taxes was another.

 

Over 20 years he dismissed 2 accountants on the spot for fraud and theft. And twice dismissed lawyers.

 

He did similar processes with sales data, production data, purchasing data. and HR data.

 

He did his research to learn how to make comparisons of raw materials purchases, production numbers and revenue and margin numbers to check if the numbers were realistic.

 

 

Edited by scorecard
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20 minutes ago, blackcab said:

I think you might need to check your year end has been audited and filed correctly.

 

Audit fees can be substantial, and all it would take would be a quick photocopy and a fake signature. Just saying.

thankfully or hopefully audit was done prior to her turning into "her" 

 

Also to my knowledge she does not do the audits and contracts it out to someone else.

 

Problem right now is getting all the paperwork back or at least getting her to pay taxes which are due in 2 hours.

 

I could show up to her house with police and demand and take all the papers on the spot, making it impossible for for to screw with accounts, but really do not want to do that as she knows all the skeletons and if there are none, she could invent some, so really wanting to end it in a nice way.

 

I have not gone off on her for messing up each time being well aware of the consequences, but have to act now and again taxes being due in 2 hours makes it even more pressing

 

I know she uncomfortable or whatever the word is for providing fake receipts and being caught,my fear is there is a lot more "fake" and this is why she is doing MIA act.

 

I usually get personal tax refund every year, this year nothing, which makes me wonder a little if my personal taxes were paid.

 

Silly thing is we talking about small money, 3000-4000 per month, but i suppose do this with 10 clients for few years and all over sudden you can afford a new house , haha

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I would go see her, and get all of your accounts. Everything. Politely tell her that if you get all the documents from her you will walk away and that will be the end of it. 

 

Prepare to pay taxes, penalties and interest when your new accountant goes through things.

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13 hours ago, BestB said:

This is why i am looking for advice on where or how i could put pressure from the top? or is it possible at all?

My suggestion made earlier:

As a precursor to that you could try your local Consumer Protection office who may be able to put some pressure on the first accountant. http://www.ocpb.go.th/

 

You have nothing to lose as it's free.

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3 hours ago, KittenKong said:

My suggestion made earlier:

As a precursor to that you could try your local Consumer Protection office who may be able to put some pressure on the first accountant. http://www.ocpb.go.th/

 

You have nothing to lose as it's free.

Consumer Protection board have no authority over matters like this

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54 minutes ago, BestB said:

Consumer Protection board have no authority over matters like this

I'll take your word for it but I dont see why not. I have known them to get involved with similar issues.

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18 hours ago, BestB said:

thankfully or hopefully audit was done prior to her turning into "her" 

 

Also to my knowledge she does not do the audits and contracts it out to someone else.

 

Problem right now is getting all the paperwork back or at least getting her to pay taxes which are due in 2 hours.

 

I could show up to her house with police and demand and take all the papers on the spot, making it impossible for for to screw with accounts, but really do not want to do that as she knows all the skeletons and if there are none, she could invent some, so really wanting to end it in a nice way.

 

I have not gone off on her for messing up each time being well aware of the consequences, but have to act now and again taxes being due in 2 hours makes it even more pressing

 

I know she uncomfortable or whatever the word is for providing fake receipts and being caught,my fear is there is a lot more "fake" and this is why she is doing MIA act.

 

I usually get personal tax refund every year, this year nothing, which makes me wonder a little if my personal taxes were paid.

 

Silly thing is we talking about small money, 3000-4000 per month, but i suppose do this with 10 clients for few years and all over sudden you can afford a new house , haha

 Could be wrong but I think in Thailand audit must be done, by law, by a separate person / company.

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