U.S. senators say Saudi crown prince has gone 'full gangster'

[webfact]

U.S. senators say Saudi crown prince has gone 'full gangster'

By Patricia Zengerle

 

FILE PHOTO: Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman poses for the camera during his visit to Great Wall of China in Beijing, China February 21, 2019. Bandar Algaloud/Courtesy of Saudi Royal Court/Handout via REUTERS

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Retired General John Abizaid, President Donald Trump's nominee to be ambassador to Saudi Arabia, defended the U.S.-Saudi relationship on Wednesday as lawmakers accused the kingdom of a litany of misdeeds and criticized its crown prince as going "full gangster."

 

Senators at Abizaid's confirmation hearing including Trump's fellow Republicans as well as Democrats condemned the kingdom's conduct in the civil war in Yemen, heavy-handed diplomacy and rights abuses. Among those were the torturing of women's activists and a U.S. citizen and the murder of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi.

 

Abizaid called for accountability for the murder of Khashoggi, a U.S. resident, and support for human rights, but repeatedly stressed the strategic importance of Washington-Riyadh ties.

 

Despite increasing tension between the two countries, the United States has not had an ambassador to SaudiArabia since Trump became president in January 2017.

 

"In the long run, we need a strong and mature partnership with Saudi Arabia," Abizaid told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. "It is in our interests to make sure that the relationship is sound."

 

Abizaid, a retired four-star Army general who led U.S. Central Command during the Iraq war, is expected to easily win Senate confirmation.

 

Khashoggi, a Washington Post columnist and critic of the Riyadh government, was killed at a Saudi consulate in Turkey in October. His death fuelled simmering discontent in Washington over Saudi Arabia's human rights record and heavy civilian casualties in Yemen's civil war, where a Saudi-led coalition is fighting Iran-backed Houthi rebels.

 

The Senate and House of Representatives have passed resolutions that would end U.S. support for the Saudi-led coalition, an important rebuke of Riyadh. But Abizaid said the Trump administration believes strongly that U.S. support should continue.

 

"Doing so bolsters the self-defense capabilities of our partners and reduces the risk of harm to civilians," Abizaid said.

 

It was also the confirmation hearing for Matthew Tueller, the current U.S. ambassador to Yemen and Trump's nominee to be ambassador to Iraq. He also defended U.S. support for the coalition.

 

'FULL GANGSTER'

Lawmakers have been sharply critical of Mohammed bin Salman, the powerful Saudi crown prince. Some blame him for Khashoggi's killing and other human rights abuses.

 

Eleven suspects have been indicted in Saudi Arabia for Khashoggi's murder and Riyadh has denied the crown prince ordered the killing.

 

"Saudi Arabia has engaged in acts that are simply not acceptable," said Republican Senator Jim Risch, the committee chairman. Risch has held two classified briefings in the past two weeks for the panel to discussSaudi Arabia.

 

Senator Bob Menendez, the committee's ranking Democrat, acknowledged the strategic importance of Saudities, amid threats from Iran. "But we cannot let these interests blind us to our values or to our long term interests in stability," Menendez said.

 

Menendez did not mention by name Jared Kushner, the president's son-in-law who has met with Saudi leaders, rankling some in Congress. But Menendez asked Abizaid if he would insist on being fully informed about all White House interactions with the Saudis. Abizaid said he would.

 

As the hearing continued, Republican Senator Marco Rubio said bin Salman had gone "full gangster," an assertion repeated by another Republican, Senator Ron Johnson.

 

"He is reckless, he's ruthless, he has a penchant for escalation, for taking high risks, confrontational in his foreign policy approach and I think increasingly willing to test the limits of what he can get away with with the United States," Rubio said.

 

Abizaid said in prepared remarks that the Islamic State has been "nearly vanquished on the ground," but remains a "potent threat" to the United States and its allies.

 

While contradicted by some military and intelligence officials, Trump announced in December that he would withdraw all U.S. forces from Syria and has declared that the militant group has been driven out of all its territory.

 

After criticism, Trump has since decided to leave hundreds of U.S. troops in the country over the longer run.

 

(Reporting by Patricia Zengerle; editing by Nick Zieminski, Jeffrey Benkoe and Cynthia Osterman)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-03-07

[mtls2005]

23 minutes ago, webfact said:

As the hearing continued, Republican Senator Marco Rubio said bin Salman had gone "full gangster," an assertion repeated by another Republican, Senator Ron Johnson.

 

Wow, "little Marco" grows a pair. Who woulda thunk? Maybe he senses an "opening"?

 

28 minutes ago, webfact said:

Despite increasing tension between the two countries, the United States has not had an ambassador to SaudiArabia since Trump became president in January 2017.

 

I thought that Jared was de facto Ambassador to KSA?

[ballpoint]

8 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

I thought that Jared was de facto Ambassador to KSA?

More like the Ambassa-door mat as they walk all over him.

[johnnykak]

i imagine the saudis will cozy up with putin as the years move on. too much money on the table for america to walk away- they will talk tough but take the money. seems as though the majority of the people are being presented with fewer and fewer choices for representation around the world.

[neeray]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

"He is reckless, he's ruthless, he has a penchant for escalation, for taking high risks, confrontational in his foreign policy approach and I think increasingly willing to test the limits of what he can get away with with the United States," Rubio said.

 

MbS and Trump make good company for each other. Very similar traits.

 

[wombat]

''increasingly willing to test the limits of what he can get away with''.....maybe he's been reading rocket mans playbook.

[car720]

did anyone ever read "the pirate" by Harold Robbins?

[IAMHERE]

So what should be done? We need Saudi Arabia as much as they need us. Which other country in the middle east can or will counterbalance Iran ?

[bristolboy]

31 minutes ago, IAMHERE said:

So what should be done? We need Saudi Arabia as much as they need us. Which other country in the middle east can or will counterbalance Iran ?

That's what was once said about Saddam Hussein and Iraq. How did that work out?

[JimmyTheMook]

Saudi Arabia is such a trash country.

[AgMech Cowboy]

No worries. SA won't give him a work permit. He's too old.

[Prissana Pescud]

2 hours ago, IAMHERE said:

So what should be done? We need Saudi Arabia as much as they need us. Which other country in the middle east can or will counterbalance Iran ?

Israel

[Pib]

MBS, Kim Jong Un, and Valdimir are Donald's buddies...he trusts them.

[farcanell]

2 hours ago, IAMHERE said:

So what should be done? We need Saudi Arabia as much as they need us. Which other country in the middle east can or will counterbalance Iran ?

The enemy of my enemy, isn’t nessesarily my friend.... as history often teaches.... lol... there is also often a divide between teaching and taught, and the current occupant of the whitehouse has problems absorbing the lessons that his national security advisors are trying to teach... so what should be done?

 

lock him up, lock him up, lock him up!

[Tug]

Hey carefull Donald admires  him along with little Kim and his best friend putin you know the hostile foreign power who would love to see us flounder it’s refreshing to see there are still some republicans who reject some of Donald’s worst ideas

[Trouble]

6 hours ago, bristolboy said:

That's what was once said about Saddam Hussein and Iraq. How did that work out?

Not very well. We made mistakes of getting rid of strong men in Iraq and Libya who were able to control things. Maybe they were not the best for their people but a damn bight better for regional stability. So should we cast off Saudi Arabia? They side with us on most issues, are not vehemently anti-israel as some in the middle east, and are trying to keep Yemen from completely falling into Iran's sphere of influence because they don't want Iran on their southern border. All the buffoons in the senate talk big but they have no solution for anything. Sometimes one has to deal with people they don't like.

[bristolboy]

37 minutes ago, Trouble said:

Not very well. We made mistakes of getting rid of strong men in Iraq and Libya who were able to control things. Maybe they were not the best for their people but a damn bight better for regional stability. So should we cast off Saudi Arabia? They side with us on most issues, are not vehemently anti-israel as some in the middle east, and are trying to keep Yemen from completely falling into Iran's sphere of influence because they don't want Iran on their southern border. All the buffoons in the senate talk big but they have no solution for anything. Sometimes one has to deal with people they don't like.

Saddam Hussein a force for regional stability? Are you forgetting the invasion of Iran? Or of Kuwait? And in MbS we have a similar figure. It's not just the Yemen war and your talk of Iran being on their southern border is exactly the narrative that the Saudis would want you to believe. Have you forgotten that he kidnapped the Prime Minister of Lebanon? And nearly went to war with Qatar because he felt that they weren't showing him sufficient respect? And is still maintaining a very hostile stance towards Qatar. He's a hothead and monster. Similar to Saddam. And now he wants the ability to manufacture nuclear fuel for proposed power stations. You should read this:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/04/09/a-saudi-princes-quest-to-remake-the-middle-east

[Morch]

10 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Saddam Hussein a force for regional stability? Are you forgetting the invasion of Iran? Or of Kuwait? And in MbS we have a similar figure. It's not just the Yemen war and your talk of Iran being on their southern border is exactly the narrative that the Saudis would want you to believe. Have you forgotten that he kidnapped the Prime Minister of Lebanon? And nearly went to war with Qatar because he felt that they weren't showing him sufficient respect? And is still maintaining a very hostile stance towards Qatar. He's a hothead and monster. Similar to Saddam. And now he wants the ability to manufacture nuclear fuel for proposed power stations. You should read this:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/04/09/a-saudi-princes-quest-to-remake-the-middle-east

 

".....your talk of Iran being on their southern border is exactly the narrative that the Saudis would want you to believe."

 

Regardless of how one feels about MBS, it would be hard to claim that Iran isn't involved in the Yemen War. Or that it's involvement does not represent a threat to Saudi Arabia's interests. The same goes for any wholesale discounting or minimizing  of Iran's regional ambitions and activities - or how these are perceived by other regional players. This does not, of course, have anything to do with other parties necessarily representing stability, being the forces of light or even palatable.

[bristolboy]

13 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

".....your talk of Iran being on their southern border is exactly the narrative that the Saudis would want you to believe."

 

Regardless of how one feels about MBS, it would be hard to claim that Iran isn't involved in the Yemen War. Or that it's involvement does not represent a threat to Saudi Arabia's interests. The same goes for any wholesale discounting or minimizing  of Iran's regional ambitions and activities - or how these are perceived by other regional players. This does not, of course, have anything to do with other parties necessarily representing stability, being the forces of light or even palatable.

The Houthis Are Not Hezbollah

https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/02/27/the-houthis-are-not-hezbollah/

[Morch]

@bristolboy

 

Deflect away. There wasn't any assertion in my post that the two are "the same". And even nothing much in the link provided (even if one accepts the article in it's entirety) countering my point. 

[bristolboy]

2 hours ago, Morch said:

@bristolboy

 

Deflect away. There wasn't any assertion in my post that the two are "the same". And even nothing much in the link provided (even if one accepts the article in it's entirety) countering my point. 

It's a deflection? I guess only if you think the Houthis are actually interested in tangling with Saudi Arabia. They have more than enough problems dealing with their fractious enemies inside Yemen. The view that the Saudis and others take of the Shiites is the same kind of conspiratorial viewpoint that was prevalent in the Cold War re communists. Namely that they were all in league together. We saw how that played out. Sure, the Iranians are now helping the Houthis much more than ever before. But do you think that just maybe that's because the Saudis invaded in the first place? This whole venture stems from the deranged thinking of MbS. Keep in mind that he nearly launched a war against Qatar and had the Prime Minister of Lebanon. kidnapped. The man suffers from the paranoia and megalomania that typifies a disastrous autocrat. The War in Yemen is exactly the kind of disaster one would expect from him.

[Morch]

5 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

It's a deflection? I guess only if you think the Houthis are actually interested in tangling with Saudi Arabia. They have more than enough problems dealing with their fractious enemies inside Yemen. The view that the Saudis and others take of the Shiites is the same kind of conspiratorial viewpoint that was prevalent in the Cold War re communists. Namely that they were all in league together. We saw how that played out. Sure, the Iranians are now helping the Houthis much more than ever before. But do you think that just maybe that's because the Saudis invaded in the first place? This whole venture stems from the deranged thinking of MbS. Keep in mind that he nearly launched a war against Qatar and had the Prime Minister of Lebanon. kidnapped. The man suffers from the paranoia and megalomania that typifies a disastrous autocrat. The War in Yemen is exactly the kind of disaster one would expect from him.

 

And you keep deflecting. My comment was more to do with Iran, rather than the Houthis. Acknowledging Iran's (rather that your more general rendering of "Shiites") regional ambitions and activities is hardly a "conspiratorial viewpoint". Whether you like to accept it or not, Iran does use the pretext of protecting the interests of Shia minorities/groups in order to justify it's various regional efforts. That some Shia groups are more receptive to this than others is less relevant to the point made.

 

And sure, you could go on and on about MBS - but that wouldn't make Iran's role and position vs. SA any less of a fact, or make MBS the cause of it. You can bash MBS to your heart's content, but that doesn't quite serve to make Iran an innocent party, or a stabilizing force in the ME.

[bristolboy]

4 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

And you keep deflecting. My comment was more to do with Iran, rather than the Houthis. Acknowledging Iran's (rather that your more general rendering of "Shiites") regional ambitions and activities is hardly a "conspiratorial viewpoint". Whether you like to accept it or not, Iran does use the pretext of protecting the interests of Shia minorities/groups in order to justify it's various regional efforts. That some Shia groups are more receptive to this than others is less relevant to the point made.

 

And sure, you could go on and on about MBS - but that wouldn't make Iran's role and position vs. SA any less of a fact, or make MBS the cause of it. You can bash MBS to your heart's content, but that doesn't quite serve to make Iran an innocent party, or a stabilizing force in the ME.

But it also doesn't mean that the Houthis pose a threat to the Saudi Arabia. And since this thread is about MbS and his policies, and not about Iran's conduct in the whole of the Middle East, it's you who are doing the deflecting. 

[Morch]

45 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

But it also doesn't mean that the Houthis pose a threat to the Saudi Arabia. And since this thread is about MbS and his policies, and not about Iran's conduct in the whole of the Middle East, it's you who are doing the deflecting. 

 

My original comment was in reply to something you posted regarding Iran and SA. If you feel to quoting your own words and addressing them is a deflection, guess we'll have to disagree. A deflection would be trying to insinuate a position I did take in this exchange ("the Houthis pose a threat to Saudi Arabia") - and doing so over and over again, while ignoring the points I actually make.

 

[bristolboy]

8 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

My original comment was in reply to something you posted regarding Iran and SA. If you feel to quoting your own words and addressing them is a deflection, guess we'll have to disagree. A deflection would be trying to insinuate a position I did take in this exchange ("the Houthis pose a threat to Saudi Arabia") - and doing so over and over again, while ignoring the points I actually make.

 

Not so. But I'll leave you to try and quibble you way out of this.

[HLover]

On 3/7/2019 at 7:41 AM, webfact said:

Senator Marco Rubio said bin Salman had gone "full gangster,"

Please speak in a non-pandering manner, your a senator.

[Morch]

15 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Not so. But I'll leave you to try and quibble you way out of this.

 

"Not so" how? Didn't my original post reference a direct quoted from your words? Weren't these words relate to Saudi Arabia and Iran? Was there anything in my posts about the Houthies being a threat? Did you not try to spin that at least a couple of times?

 

What it was that you made a comment which you cannot reasonably support - therefore the deflections.

 

[Morch]

14 minutes ago, HLover said:

Please speak in a non-pandering manner, your a senator.

 

If he only had a president to set a proper example...

[unblocktheplanet]

Now TV is publishing L-M?!?