Leaving Thailand...

[Khaeng Mak]

13 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Mortgage repayments, electric, water, moobaan fees and internet on my 3 bed house in CM are under 14k/month = 168Kbht/year.

Australia is EXPENSIVE!

My electricity bill is seldom more than 500THB per month and that includes pumping my FREE water from my well.  

 

I did not mention internet in my Gold Coast example.  Internet is far far more expensive and not nearly as good as that available here in Thailand.  A friend of mine (who lives on the Goldie) recently wanted to connect broadband to his horse property.  He had to wait 2 months for the connection.

[Jimbo2014]

10 hours ago, Khaeng Mak said:

Sorry, I have to call you out on BULLS**T:

 

Median Gold Coast house price is $655,000 AUD:

 

https://www.realestate.com.au/news/what-the-median-house-price-gets-you-on-the-gold-coast/

 

That equates to over 14.6 MILLION baht which will buy almost any of the properties for sale in Phuket with a few very high end exceptions.

 

And of course if you own a property in Thailand you don't have to pay annual property rates to the local council.

 

On your median priced house on the Goldie you would be up for around $6,500 each year for rates our about 100K THB.  And then of course there are you water and electricity bills in Australia.  Unlike Thailand they arrive every 3 months.  If you have a couple of kids your electricity bill with run you about 900 AUD per quarter and water rates in Oz are now more expensive than electricity.  So let's do some thumb nail calcs for your affordable Gold Coast dream home:

 

Land rates per year:  $6,500

Electricity per year:   $3,200

Water per year:         $3,000

Total:                       $12,700

 

So just the tax and utilities for your Aussie home will run you about 284,000 THB per annum.

 

Oh.  And lets not forget that Australia is current in the midst of it largest house price correction in modern history.  Nationwide prices are already off some 10% and are predicted to fall another 40%.

 

So in addition to the obscene holding costs for Australian property you also risk losing 40-50% of your equity.

 

 

 

 

 

Your probably right but Im looking higher end in Phuket as the medium to lower dont really meet the same expectations as an equivalent priced house in the Goldie.  Id look 25-35M in Phuket.  Yes rates are certainly lower in Thailand - but utilities are equivalent for us - perhaps we just use more.  Everyone has to go with their own path.  For me these are minor cost savings compared to the other benefits I listed.  Certainly not 100% decided but swinging towards back home.

[Jimbo2014]

20 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

You have mentioned nothing that is getting more expensive.  You have compared Thailand to Australia and those comparisons would have been as valid 3 years ago as today.  The other poster asked what is getting more expensive recently.  The answer is nothing.

Check the link I sent in my post (refer end post).  It explains in better detail than I ever could.  The cost of living in Thailand is certainly on the up.  Again - dont take my word for it.  Just ask the average Thai to compare prices for common purchases (som tum, rent, utilities) over the past 10 years.

[Leaver]

On 3/11/2019 at 2:29 AM, Khaeng Mak said:

Sorry, I have to call you out on BULLS**T:

 

Median Gold Coast house price is $655,000 AUD:

 

https://www.realestate.com.au/news/what-the-median-house-price-gets-you-on-the-gold-coast/

 

That equates to over 14.6 MILLION baht which will buy almost any of the properties for sale in Phuket with a few very high end exceptions.

 

And of course if you own a property in Thailand you don't have to pay annual property rates to the local council.

 

On your median priced house on the Goldie you would be up for around $6,500 each year for rates our about 100K THB.  And then of course there are you water and electricity bills in Australia.  Unlike Thailand they arrive every 3 months.  If you have a couple of kids your electricity bill with run you about 900 AUD per quarter and water rates in Oz are now more expensive than electricity.  So let's do some thumb nail calcs for your affordable Gold Coast dream home:

 

Land rates per year:  $6,500

Electricity per year:   $3,200

Water per year:         $3,000

Total:                       $12,700

 

So just the tax and utilities for your Aussie home will run you about 284,000 THB per annum.

 

Oh.  And lets not forget that Australia is current in the midst of it largest house price correction in modern history.  Nationwide prices are already off some 10% and are predicted to fall another 40%.

 

So in addition to the obscene holding costs for Australian property you also risk losing 40-50% of your equity.

 

 

 

 

 

The big difference is, in Australia, you can actually own the property, in your name, freehold. 

 

In Thailand, you are basically leasing the land it sits on for 30 years, and please don't give me the 30 x 30 story because it does not exist at Thai law. 

[Leaver]

On 3/10/2019 at 4:38 PM, marcusarelus said:

You have mentioned nothing that is getting more expensive.  You have compared Thailand to Australia and those comparisons would have been as valid 3 years ago as today.  The other poster asked what is getting more expensive recently.  The answer is nothing.

They do take the p*ss out of certain things that foreigners enjoy.  Eg. wine, cheese.  

 

The tax on wine here is ridiculous. 

[Leaver]

On 3/11/2019 at 1:18 PM, Jimbo2014 said:

Your probably right but Im looking higher end in Phuket as the medium to lower dont really meet the same expectations as an equivalent priced house in the Goldie.  Id look 25-35M in Phuket.  Yes rates are certainly lower in Thailand - but utilities are equivalent for us - perhaps we just use more.  Everyone has to go with their own path.  For me these are minor cost savings compared to the other benefits I listed.  Certainly not 100% decided but swinging towards back home.

Have you considered another country nearby?

 

With the visa changes a lot of people are talking about going home, but there's no need to.  Nearby countries are offering a similar lifestyle to Thailand, but with a lot less BS for foreigners.

[Jimbo2014]

On 3/21/2019 at 4:07 PM, Leaver said:

Have you considered another country nearby?

 

With the visa changes a lot of people are talking about going home, but there's no need to.  Nearby countries are offering a similar lifestyle to Thailand, but with a lot less BS for foreigners.

We have.  I work around the region so have a good knowledge of it.  However my wife is thai and we have kids.  For us there are really only two alternatives.  North Australia or an Island in Thailand.  We are still looking at options but not very impressed with the way things are going.  To anyone who doesnt have our restrictions I would recommend Cambodia or Philippines as possibilities. Not crazy about Malaysia, Myanmar too undeveloped and not suitable - also expensive for expats.  Laos landlocked and suffering pollution these days.  Vietnam just difficult and getting expensive although South is ok.  Thoughts?

[Leaver]

3 hours ago, Jimbo2014 said:

We have.  I work around the region so have a good knowledge of it.  However my wife is thai and we have kids.  For us there are really only two alternatives.  North Australia or an Island in Thailand.  We are still looking at options but not very impressed with the way things are going.  To anyone who doesnt have our restrictions I would recommend Cambodia or Philippines as possibilities. Not crazy about Malaysia, Myanmar too undeveloped and not suitable - also expensive for expats.  Laos landlocked and suffering pollution these days.  Vietnam just difficult and getting expensive although South is ok.  Thoughts?

I will be moving to Vietnam, but have been to and considered all the places you mentioned.

 

What do you find difficult about Vietnam? 

 

Not sure why you say Vietnam is expensive.  It's a lot cheaper than Thailand. 

[Jingthing]

I have lived in some nice places in america.   And even though most things are expensive one can live fairly economically if they are so inclined.   But unlike northern Norway or other countries that have free or affordable health care...... the US will bleed you dry in a heartbeat.   The big misconception is that medicare will solve their health concerns .   If you research how much one still has to pay even though they are "covered" by medicare you will see that you still need to pay a LOT ,  or have secondary insurance along with medicare.   don't believe me ask Sheryl.      second dealbreaker is if one wants to own their own house or property.  Not that expensive in out of the way places.....but don't forget PROPERTY TAX.  My tax here on 6 rai is 183 baht a year.  

So true. Stats I've read say the average American on Medicare pays 150k usd lifetime out of pocket. Hardly free. Not sure if that includes the premiums for the extra parts but I reckon it's more than 150 by now. Of course most of the spending is concentrated on end of life when you may tend to care less about paying the bill.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Jingthing]

No one want's to hear about this subject but somehow there are eight pages of comments..
 

Natch dude.
Leaving Thailand topics are clickarific.
Especially these days.
No joke!

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[rumak]

25 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

So true. Stats I've read say the average American on Medicare pays 150k usd lifetime out of pocket. Hardly free. Not sure if that includes the premiums for the extra parts but I reckon it's more than 150 by now. Of course most of the spending is concentrated on end of life when you may tend to care less about paying the bill.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I know this thread is not about America,  but those of us who have been in Thailand a long time are getting older and maybe a little less inclined to stay here "forever".    For me the visa hassles are not a big deal so I am not looking for alternatives.  I am not crazy about the American way of life,  but have lived in some places where the people are pretty nice ( think medium sized towns in nice climates).  The dealbreaker is medical costs !  The few issues I have had here over time have hardly set me back at all.  I would have lost a good portion of my savings if in the U.S. .      

[JordanJones]

On 3/11/2019 at 1:29 AM, Khaeng Mak said:

Land rates per year:  $6,500

Electricity per year:   $3,200

Water per year:         $3,000 

Total:                       $12,700 

Those numbers are too high. Most people pay about half of that or less. Rates/water is about $3500 combined. Electricity is about $350 a quarter if you have solar which most do.

[JordanJones]

On 3/20/2019 at 8:30 PM, Leaver said:

They do take the p*ss out of certain things that foreigners enjoy.  Eg. wine, cheese.  

 

The tax on wine here is ridiculous. 

Lots of things in Thailand are expensive. Wine, cheese, good beef, fuel, almonds, vitamins. It's only cheaper for rent, massages and restaurants.

[JordanJones]

On 3/11/2019 at 1:57 AM, Khaeng Mak said:

This crash is going to epic.  And will make the 2009 crash in the states look like a cake walk.

Won't happen. Interest rates are low. Housing is only high in 2 cities and already gone down 15%.

[Spidey]

7 hours ago, JordanJones said:

Lots of things in Thailand are expensive. Wine, cheese, good beef, fuel, almonds, vitamins. It's only cheaper for rent, massages and restaurants.

Fuel is less than half the price here as it is in the UK and most of Europe. Almonds, other locally grown nuts are available. Vitamins you can get from fresh fruit and vegetables and probably healthier. Australian beef not a lot more expensive than the UK. That leaves wine and cheese, not exactly lots of things.

[madmen]

16 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Fuel is less than half the price here as it is in the UK and most of Europe. Almonds, other locally grown nuts are available. Vitamins you can get from fresh fruit and vegetables and probably healthier. Australian beef not a lot more expensive than the UK. That leaves wine and cheese, not exactly lots of things.

Yes and you can get vitamins from iherb for a small shipping fee of a few dollars. You are right in what you say and the wine and cheese novelty will wear off when the 20th bottle is drained and youve put on 10kg on the cheese binge

 

If anybody wants cheap cheese I order from this guy. 2kg Australian cheddar off cuts 750 baht, arrives in a foam cooler with dry ice and posts to anywhere in Thailand

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1W2BHcYTVrrh4SFToR_4gXJIDHwjV1iVk/view

[JordanJones]

2 hours ago, Spidey said:

Fuel is less than half the price here as it is in the UK and most of Europe. Almonds, other locally grown nuts are available. Vitamins you can get from fresh fruit and vegetables and probably healthier. Australian beef not a lot more expensive than the UK. That leaves wine and cheese, not exactly lots of things.

That just means the UK is worse.

[Spidey]

3 hours ago, JordanJones said:

That just means the UK is worse.

Worse than what?

[Jimbo2014]

On 3/22/2019 at 7:26 PM, Leaver said:

I will be moving to Vietnam, but have been to and considered all the places you mentioned.

 

What do you find difficult about Vietnam? 

 

Not sure why you say Vietnam is expensive.  It's a lot cheaper than Thailand. 

True Thailand has become horribly expensive.  I worked in Hanoi with the government so have a biased opinion.  I wouldnt recommend Hanoi.  Vietnamese people are not as laid back or friendly as Thais but thats not to say they are impossible.  The south is much easier than the north. Saigon is very expensive for Expat places but you can live cheap if you adopt a local lifestyle.   They dont handle tourism very well - the coast is being overrun with hotels to cater to locals and Chinese.  Overall its possibly a reasonable option and you wont know whether it suites you until you move there.  I think I would prefer (selected parts) Cambodia over Vietnam and other options but thats a personal preference based on atmosphere, cost of living and facilities.

[NCC1701A]

 

[Leaver]

5 hours ago, Jimbo2014 said:

True Thailand has become horribly expensive.  I worked in Hanoi with the government so have a biased opinion.  I wouldnt recommend Hanoi.  Vietnamese people are not as laid back or friendly as Thais but thats not to say they are impossible.  The south is much easier than the north. Saigon is very expensive for Expat places but you can live cheap if you adopt a local lifestyle.   They dont handle tourism very well - the coast is being overrun with hotels to cater to locals and Chinese.  Overall its possibly a reasonable option and you wont know whether it suites you until you move there.  I think I would prefer (selected parts) Cambodia over Vietnam and other options but thats a personal preference based on atmosphere, cost of living and facilities.

Unlike some others, I had already searched for a place to be my Plan B, in preparation for if things went south here, and that time is approaching for me. 

 

I don't like the big cities, but definitely preferred Ho Chi Minh City to Hanoi.  If you want to compare these with cities in Thailand, it can only be Bangkok, and I wouldn't live in Bangkok, either.   

 

I will be going coastal in Vietnam.  I'll be renting a condo near the beach. 

 

I find the Vietnamese people "curious" unlike the Thai's, who's country has been colonized by foreigners. In any case, locals in big cities all around the world are not laid back.  It's just the busy lifestyle, I guess.  

 

As far as Cambodia is concerned, you can forget about Sihanoukville now. 

[Jimbo2014]

On 3/25/2019 at 3:41 PM, Leaver said:

Unlike some others, I had already searched for a place to be my Plan B, in preparation for if things went south here, and that time is approaching for me. 

 

I don't like the big cities, but definitely preferred Ho Chi Minh City to Hanoi.  If you want to compare these with cities in Thailand, it can only be Bangkok, and I wouldn't live in Bangkok, either.   

 

I will be going coastal in Vietnam.  I'll be renting a condo near the beach. 

 

I find the Vietnamese people "curious" unlike the Thai's, who's country has been colonized by foreigners. In any case, locals in big cities all around the world are not laid back.  It's just the busy lifestyle, I guess.  

 

As far as Cambodia is concerned, you can forget about Sihanoukville now. 

Yup Sihanoukville has totally gone - I was lucky to catch it one last time before it really went.  Sounds like you have a good plan. The coast can be nice and you can make a nice life there.  Yes vietnam is still fresh with a dynamic young population.  Middle and south can be nice.  Im stuck in Thailand - so its either going to be an island here for us (family) or back home to Aus in 4 years time when my son graduates school.  We are undecided as yet but the scales are tipping towards back home at present.

[GinBoy2]

3 minutes ago, Jimbo2014 said:

Yup Sihanoukville has totally gone - I was lucky to catch it one last time before it really went.  Sounds like you have a good plan. The coast can be nice and you can make a nice life there.  Yes vietnam is still fresh with a dynamic young population.  Middle and south can be nice.  Im stuck in Thailand - so its either going to be an island here for us (family) or back home to Aus in 4 years time when my son graduates school.  We are undecided as yet but the scales are tipping towards back home at present.

If I had to give you one piece of advice if you are looking at going home. 

If your son is looking to go to college, go back to Aus a couple of years before he finishes HS.

Thai education does not in any way prepare them for a Western college environment

 

[Jimbo2014]

3 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

If I had to give you one piece of advice if you are looking at going home. 

If your son is looking to go to college, go back to Aus a couple of years before he finishes HS.

Thai education does not in any way prepare them for a Western college environment

 

Hey I hear you - its been private schools all the way for him - bloody expensive but international standard.  Next is KIS - IB level - seems pretty tough with a good transition rate to top universities.

[Leaver]

50 minutes ago, Jimbo2014 said:

Yup Sihanoukville has totally gone - I was lucky to catch it one last time before it really went.  Sounds like you have a good plan. The coast can be nice and you can make a nice life there.  Yes vietnam is still fresh with a dynamic young population.  Middle and south can be nice.  Im stuck in Thailand - so its either going to be an island here for us (family) or back home to Aus in 4 years time when my son graduates school.  We are undecided as yet but the scales are tipping towards back home at present.

I suppose if the cost of living in Thailand is fast catching up to western prices, and currency exchange rates are unfavorable, then you have the current, and future, visa chaos to deal with, staying in Thailand may not represent good value for money, when compared to a developed country.

[GinBoy2]

11 hours ago, Jimbo2014 said:

Hey I hear you - its been private schools all the way for him - bloody expensive but international standard.  Next is KIS - IB level - seems pretty tough with a good transition rate to top universities.

We did the same.

After we moved from Singapore he was in the last year of middle school.

He went to an 'international' school but be careful.

I don't know where you live, but with any of those 'international' schools outside of Bangkok, it's basically a marketing ploy.

They are barely any better than the State schools, they just cost you an arm and a leg

My son ended up going to the University of Chicago, after being a star student in Singapore, he struggled mightily in his freshman year in Chicago, and I blame his HS in Khon Kaen for that.

 

Now he was fortunate that he lived with my eldest daughter, who was living in Chicago at the time, and she basically tutored him through all of the gaps in his Thai HS education 

[williet98248]

Well, I am not planning on leaving for a few years if ever.  But I am planning a trip to Cambodia to check it out as a future home if things get really bad in Thailand. Big Joke is making it harder to be an expat in Thailand.  I have 800,000 in the bank and a cash cushion plus pension so not worrying too much.  But yearly renewal of visa and no 90 day reporting and being able to work or start a business with no hassles plus less expensive living expenses is inviting me to take a look at Cambodia.  Of course no place is perfect.  But no immediate plans to leave Thailand.  I suspect folks with out the income requirements or cash in the bank are thinking of leaving.

[Jimbo2014]

10 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

We did the same.

After we moved from Singapore he was in the last year of middle school.

He went to an 'international' school but be careful.

I don't know where you live, but with any of those 'international' schools outside of Bangkok, it's basically a marketing ploy.

They are barely any better than the State schools, they just cost you an arm and a leg

My son ended up going to the University of Chicago, after being a star student in Singapore, he struggled mightily in his freshman year in Chicago, and I blame his HS in Khon Kaen for that.

 

Now he was fortunate that he lived with my eldest daughter, who was living in Chicago at the time, and she basically tutored him through all of the gaps in his Thai HS education 

Good advice and thanks.  We are sending him to KIS in Bkk which an IB programme - from what I understand its quite robust.  We have reviewed the curriculum and teachers and it seems a good standard and they have a high transition rate of students to overseas universities.  I know there are many semi-international schools around Bkk and outside with some pretty dodgy teachers.  Also many so called 'international' which are not.  We have been careful to background check schools.  I think for any decent school you are looking at 700K+ PA for secondary - which blind highway robbery compared to other asian countries and back home - but Im assuming officials limit the number and participate in ownership or some such scheme.  Otherwise hard to understand why they are so expensive and so limited.

[Leaver]

4 hours ago, williet98248 said:

Well, I am not planning on leaving for a few years if ever.  But I am planning a trip to Cambodia to check it out as a future home if things get really bad in Thailand. Big Joke is making it harder to be an expat in Thailand.  I have 800,000 in the bank and a cash cushion plus pension so not worrying too much.  But yearly renewal of visa and no 90 day reporting and being able to work or start a business with no hassles plus less expensive living expenses is inviting me to take a look at Cambodia.  Of course no place is perfect.  But no immediate plans to leave Thailand.  I suspect folks with out the income requirements or cash in the bank are thinking of leaving.

You may not be planning on leaving, but what if Thai immigration is planning on you leaving?  ????

[BritManToo]

On 3/27/2019 at 6:16 PM, Leaver said:

I suppose if the cost of living in Thailand is fast catching up to western prices, and currency exchange rates are unfavorable, then you have the current, and future, visa chaos to deal with, staying in Thailand may not represent good value for money, when compared to a developed country.

Prices in Thailand are nowhere near prices in the west.