European alternatives to Thailand

[snowballthecat]

18 hours ago, seasia said:

Hi

 

Now on my 7th day and getting somewhat settled in. Weather nice, ahead of Thailand, not so hot and far lower humidity.

Food great, provided you like Italian/European food  of course which I do.

Far far cleaner.

 

People friendly, small town may have much to do with that and not necessarily specific to Italy

So far so good.

Hi Seasia!

 

I have been in your area a few years back....got married in Cernobbio,  Como back in 2004, and stayed in Bellagio, Cavallasca, Drezzo, Santo Stefano, etc.

 

My concern is about the winter....Como lake is not only freezing cold in winter, it may be also dark, depending which side of the lake you are in....

 

Are you registered with AIRE? (sort of electoral roll of Italians living abroad). I am, for many years now,  and heard that coming back to Italy wouldn't be entitled to GP doctor and so on. Is that true?

 

Have you tried to open a bank account in Italy recently?. I don't have one. 

What about the tax for property? Foreing pensions are taxed?

 

Last but not least: people. In my last few trips, including Sardegna, Piemonte, Roma, Milano I noticed how much Italian society has changed- for the worst-! 

 

The north, very racist and intolerant. Indifference and selfishness wherever. Specially teenagers.

 

Here, most of us, we like people in Thailand, isn't it?  Nobody mentioned this point, but for me it is so important to  feel comfortable with people around being wellcoming, or at least, not hostile. 

 

Having lived in so many different places before, used to move and pack and make friends again and found jobs....I can adapt to anything.

 

Argentina, Cuba, Italy, UK, Spain (Seville), Switzerland (Fribourg), Hong Kong, Dubai, Thailand, all different, all great. 

 

But now we want a quiet life. Thinking about winters in Phuket/Hua Hin and summers in Italy, likely Sardegna. Considering also Greece. There is something about Greece that made me completely happy...

 

Husband is happy in any place, provided taxes are not sky-rocket high and there is good meat on his plate.

 

Never ever thinks about old age, doctors, health system, pensions. Research  is all "on me", as he wants to continue working until the last kick! . A dreamer. 

 

Thank you for your updates, plenty of information! Great thread!

 

 

[ThomasThBKK]

11 minutes ago, snowballthecat said:

Husband is happy in any place, provided taxes are not sky-rocket high and there is good meat on his plate.

Well if you spend over half the year in thailand anyway and are a thai tax resident, there's no taxes additionally for you anywahere in europe.

[simon43]

There is something about Greece that made me completely happy...

I totally agree with you ????

 

When I was young I used to spend the long summer holidays on the island of Corfu.  My father was a university professor, (hence the long holidays).  We used to take the train from our home in Leicester (central UK), to Dover via London, across the Channel on the ferry, train to Paris, taxi across Paris to catch the train that went all the way to Brindisi in southern Italy, and then finally by ferry across the Adriatic to Corfu.

 

For me, it was a paradise island, with very few tourists in the northern village of Kassiopi.  I led a life akin to that of Gerald Durrell, chasing and catching the insects in the cyprus groves, while my father marked student exam papers on the beach, taking swigs of local Retzina wine between each paper under he was completely drunk ????

 

Ah happy days ????

[seasia]

20 hours ago, snowballthecat said:

Hi Seasia!

 

I have been in your area a few years back....got married in Cernobbio,  Como back in 2004, and stayed in Bellagio, Cavallasca, Drezzo, Santo Stefano, etc.

 

My concern is about the winter....Como lake is not only freezing cold in winter, it may be also dark, depending which side of the lake you are in....

 

Are you registered with AIRE? (sort of electoral roll of Italians living abroad). I am, for many years now,  and heard that coming back to Italy wouldn't be entitled to GP doctor and so on. Is that true?

 

Have you tried to open a bank account in Italy recently?. I don't have one. 

What about the tax for property? Foreing pensions are taxed?........

 

Hi snowballthecat.

 

Thanks for your post, have been to a fair few of the places you mention, liked Cernobbio & Bellagio very much.

I am the same as you re winter, I would not want to be here in that time so for me the north only a 6 month per year option.

That could work out OK.

 

I am not registered with AIRE but simply because I am not an Italian national.My mother was Italian but I never took on dual nationality so for now I am a Brit . I am considering applying for Italian nationality. Could be useful

My brother is dual national ( Brit/Italian ), has lived in Switzerland for several years but did say he is moving back to Italy this year.

I asked about healthcare issues, he seems to be of the thought that once he is living here again, no issue.He will be entitled to the Italian national health service.

On opening a bank account, he stated that is indeed difficult.

As to tax I think one is taxed on worldwide income,I need to find out more on that although if I stick to just under 6 months a year,seems to be OK.

 

 

[balo]

I think it's warm and sunny in Southern Europe now, I'm in my home country  Norway and will stay for a few months, up here it's been very cold, unlike the warm summer they had last year. 

 

So it's tempting to book a cheap flight to Italy or Spain for a week or two. Under €100 one way. 

[JimmyTheMook]

34 minutes ago, balo said:

I think it's warm and sunny in Southern Europe now, I'm in my home country  Norway and will stay for a few months, up here it's been very cold, unlike the warm summer they had last year. 

 

So it's tempting to book a cheap flight to Italy or Spain for a week or two. Under €100 one way. 

 

And where to find a decent room for $25 bucks a night like you can find in most of Thailand?

 

 

[CLW]

 
And where to find a decent room for $25 bucks a night like you can find in most of Thailand?
 
 

You pay that for a hostel in Europe [emoji6]

[balo]

8 hours ago, JimmyTheMook said:

And where to find a decent room for $25 bucks a night like you can find in most of Thailand?

AirBNB, not as cheap as Thailand , but $25 rooms are possible to find. Or even your own apartment for $40. 

[madmen]

9 hours ago, JimmyTheMook said:

 

And where to find a decent room for $25 bucks a night like you can find in most of Thailand?

 

 

Any east European country. And cheaper than Thailand in general , yes even the girls

[seasia]

13 hours ago, JimmyTheMook said:

 

And where to find a decent room for $25 bucks a night like you can find in most of Thailand?

 

 

Very easy as it goes, if you know what you are doing.

 

Have my own property here so not an issue but if you look some fairly cheap places to grab a night s sleep.

 

Almost always of a higher standard than Thailand. That does not say a lot though.

[snowballthecat]

On 6/24/2019 at 6:58 PM, simon43 said:

 

 

I totally agree with you ????

 

When I was young I used to spend the long summer holidays on the island of Corfu.  My father was a university professor, (hence the long holidays).  We used to take the train from our home in Leicester (central UK), to Dover via London, across the Channel on the ferry, train to Paris, taxi across Paris to catch the train that went all the way to Brindisi in southern Italy, and then finally by ferry across the Adriatic to Corfu.

 

For me, it was a paradise island, with very few tourists in the northern village of Kassiopi.  I led a life akin to that of Gerald Durrell, chasing and catching the insects in the cyprus groves, while my father marked student exam papers on the beach, taking swigs of local Retzina wine between each paper under he was completely drunk ????

 

Ah happy days ????

Oh, happy days.....the time we used to travel around with parents to get to a dream vacation place!!

 

I can picture your dad marking those papers, very very happy and high on retsina!!

 

Yes, definetely Greece evokes good memories for me as well. I used to go there in the '90s with some friends, short fly from London, very often, well priced holidays of driving and sailing and swimming. 

 

Being always in the Ionian islands, Corfu the biggest, then Lefkada, Kefalonia, Ithaka, missing Zakynthos though, supossed to be very beautiful . 

 

Being in Kefalonia was magical. The film about Captain Corelli was showing at that time in Europe, the island is pure beauty, itself.

 

All these island very good for a vacation, but what would happen if we move to one of them? Not sure, perhaps too isolated. Later on, I discovered mainland Greece has plenty of dream places alike and driving distance from International airports....

 

in 2000 went to Thessaloniki with a friend, found it amazing as well. Great people!

 

After the big crisis, property prices are still the same. Haave a look at this website, you may see "the light" tha I can see only in Greece, in some of the houses or land for sale in there. 

http://www.briansgreekproperty.co.uk/koronis.html http://www.briansgreekproperty.co.uk/zakynthos.htm

 

Someone on these threads comment about having lived in Crete but cannot find the post....

 

Anyway, i know nothing about the economy in Greece and the health system, will start to research that first....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[snowballthecat]

On 6/25/2019 at 7:16 PM, seasia said:

Hi snowballthecat.

 

Thanks for your post, have been to a fair few of the places you mention, liked Cernobbio & Bellagio very much.

I am the same as you re winter, I would not want to be here in that time so for me the north only a 6 month per year option.

That could work out OK.

 

I am not registered with AIRE but simply because I am not an Italian national.My mother was Italian but I never took on dual nationality so for now I am a Brit . I am considering applying for Italian nationality. Could be useful

My brother is dual national ( Brit/Italian ), has lived in Switzerland for several years but did say he is moving back to Italy this year.

I asked about healthcare issues, he seems to be of the thought that once he is living here again, no issue.He will be entitled to the Italian national health service.

On opening a bank account, he stated that is indeed difficult.

As to tax I think one is taxed on worldwide income,I need to find out more on that although if I stick to just under 6 months a year,seems to be OK.

 

 

Hi, 

thank you for your information.  I sense the health system will take us back, but need to confirm it. 

 

The country is in constant change. Last night was listening to Salvini in RAI, about cancelling the SopraIntendenza....so the department that curates the armony of the buildings with the environment....Bravo!

 

In Italy "it is all difficult" when you want to build your own house (our case). People spend 15, 20, 25 years. Waiting and waiting. you need so many permissions, approvals, offices to visit....a lot of red tape. We started the process in Sardegna. The file goes and comes back many times looking for planning permission from the council to Soprintendenza dei Beni Culturali, then.....then....

In the meantime, many  local and national governments change, which can favour you or block it completely. 

A comedy.  

 

Way around? Build a stone house (no planning permission) or an scandinavian flat-house, wooden, only foundations in concrete. (no planning permission).

 

You may get your Italian citizenship very quickly abroad. My husband applied while we lived in Hong Kong, it took two years only. 

On the basis of marriage. As a son, even easier should be. 

Don't delay it, you never know what they are going to do. 

 

As for the bank opening, it is a hassle but a solution can be found. Sardegna didn't look very worry to open us an account, but that was 4 years ago. Can withdraw max 990 Euros, did you know? (anti-laundry regulations). 

 

Cheers SEasia, enjoy your meal with a good wine and keep posting, we await for your updates. Even little things count....those make my day!

 

 

 

[seasia]

Hi

 

In the middle of a mini heatwave here.

Hot outside during the main part of the day, cooler mornings and evenings.

The house must have been well designed/built as it generally stays reasonably cool inside, just have to time the opening and closing of the windows and shutters correctly.

 

I came across this walking tour video of Bellagio, near to me, have been several times.

No commentary just some background music and nice views.

 

 

[snowballthecat]

one picture worth thousand words!

Thank you, SEasia!

[swissie]

On 6/26/2019 at 9:37 AM, madmen said:

Any east European country. And cheaper than Thailand in general , yes even the girls

In context with the above: No specific Post with regard to Hungary! Amazing!

Nice Summers and an interesting situation "girlwise" would make it worth further investigation.

a) There are no posters on TVF originating from Hungary, or
b) The Hungarian Posters have no desire to attract foreighners that will only "destabilize" the overall price structure. Girlwise and other.

[emptypockets]

On ‎6‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 4:27 PM, seasia said:

I have not personally but have family that have had need of medical help in Italy.

Superb.

Ranked by WHO as no. 2 in the world.

Doctor Who?

Sorry - couldn't help myself.

[plfomylo]

Hello,

I am also interested, but shouldn't east of EU be cheaper ? I do not believe that Spain, Andora, France or Italy could be cheap.

 

[snowballthecat]

On 3/10/2019 at 4:39 AM, Enki said:

Alentejo and south, aka Algarve is much much to hot in summer. Much hotter than Thailand.

 

On 3/10/2019 at 4:21 AM, Cryingdick said:

 

I spent a few years in Poland. Warsaw is a weird city it felt like a city in shell shock. One place that had a similar vibe was Phnom Penh. They have the tower of skulls and Warsaw has candles and plaques on every corner where the victims of Hitler were killed in one nasty manner or another. Back then you could also still see bullet holes in the buildings.

 

That aside most of Poland is really nice they have more. UNESCO sites than almost anywhere in the world. Salt mines near Krakow, Europe's only bison in the east, the oldest forest in Europe with oak trees 12 people around. Good food. Excellent delis on every corner. A meal with a few LARGE beers would come out to be 8 euros (currency was zloty)

 

Small towns are pretty pleasant Torun is a great city nobody has heard of, forget the town just south of the Lake District started with an O and was nice. 

 

Food and drink were dirt cheap as were hotel rooms? I stayed in a place Plosk overlooking the river on a cliff for under 100 Euro and it was 4 star. That's very cheap for Europe. Winters were brutal so I would consider doing Poland in the summer and I would pick Greece in the winter.

 

I liked Crete a lot. There maybe better islands I don't know but Crete is big enough you can drive a long way and not run out of space. Yet in areas you will still get the feel of a smaller island. Chania the capitol is a nice enough place. Old castle city with walls. A very scenic pedestrian only old town and a lot of tourists.

 

I didn't have a whole lot of time in Crete but I found the town of Souja to be nice. Gray pebble beach with cool water that is absolutely crystal clear. I vacationed there while I lived in Thailand and going back to Thailand was depressing when I saw those pristine beaches. Elafonisi beach is a marvel of nature but has a lot of tourists. Although they pick up the garbage and it isn't polluted so it is tourism done right.

 

Greece is also notable because it has very very good food for pretty cheap.

 

Is it as cheap as Thailand? Probably not but that has to be accepted when discussing Europe. Western food, beer and wine will be cheaper in both of these places. A place to live in is going to be more expensive. For me these days the gold standard is if I can live somewhere for $100 a day. I think these two places easily qualify. 

 

Utrecht in Holland is also a place I really ,loved in the summer and wasn't too bad in the winter. It is not cheap at all there. But if you have money I would give it a look.

Have you ever consider spending  your winters in Crete, Cryingdick? Did you take any steps towards a moving, let's say, going a few month each year, making friends in Greece, etc? 

Just curious Why not many of the readers seem to choose Greece as a retirement destination?

[seasia]

On 6/28/2019 at 2:36 PM, snowballthecat said:

Hi, 

thank you for your information.  I sense the health system will take us back, but need to confirm it. 

 

The country is in constant change. Last night was listening to Salvini in RAI, about cancelling the SopraIntendenza....so the department that curates the armony of the buildings with the environment....Bravo!

 

 

 

Hi snoballthecat

 

According to social services in the Italian town I am in, even after a long absence the health care system will take you back.

Just need to register for residency.

Actually was enquiring for my brother who has been Swiss resident for 5 years but is actually moving back to Italy

The day you are resident you are entitled to all Italian social and health care services.

 

I was very impressed, they also offered help for me to obtain Italian nationality, said it was simple although could take some time.

 

On a less serious note, really enjoying it here.

Food great, people great, weather has been nice, cooled down a bit today but still pleasant.

 

All the Best

[snowballthecat]

Hi Seasia, very glad you are enjoying your Italian summer.

I am happy you met nice people, it does count and makes your everyday pleasant. 

Are costs manageable around Como lake? 

 

Thank you for the information about Health system!

It is very good news, indeed. 

Italian Health Service is good, whatever "Doctor Who?" may have to say. 

I have seen many cases....when it is serious, they act. I don't know for minor ailments....but when it is serious, time matters. 

 

My dear sister was diagnosed one year ago with an uterine sarcoma. I enquired about Immunotherapy to Istituto dei Tumori (excellence center with headquarters in Milano). After a few weeks, one team wrote back asking to be sent the clinical history of my sister (Italian but no resident in Italy). At the end, my sister started  with a New Jersey medical center, but the Italian system replied! (just to give you an idea, each infusion costs around 250.000 Euros, and a few are needed. Italian public system covers the cost).

 

My friend Marco (38.yo.) suffered a stroke in/around Salerno area, on the street. Ambulance, hospital, procedures....He was out in a few days, no any consequence, no disabilities, all was OK. Cost: zero.

 

We are in Phuket debating which hospital to take one/each other in case of stroke/heart attack (many cases already here, also tourist).... People are saying not all hospitals have a scan or tPA, the right medicine to control the clots....

When time is something important, Thailand is slow....

Then, there is the bill to foot. Not a minor problem!. My insurance is good, first class one but I don't know what they cover or not cover. 

CT scan at a public hospital was 8000 baht, in Italy a tourist suffering the same accident would have a TAC or CT scan for free at any public hospital, always according to Marco.  

 

You better start to get your citizenship, governement may change any time and the laws can be changed. If you start the procedure out of Italy, it takes shorter time. Did they tell you that? When we married, citizenship for my other half took 3 years -applied at the consulate in hong kong-. It was 5 years if you apply within Italy. 

 

Just in case, do you know what are the requirements for "residenza"? When I took my first residence in Italy (1991) it involved lot of bureaucracy, ufff.

And the income tax? Asap you set residenza in Italy, taxman comes after you. How much is the tax? Unless you decide to spend 181 days in Thailand....in that case you do not pay Italian tax. 

 

Enjoy the sunny days, September is historically the best, don't know now with climate change.

 

 

[snowballthecat]

https://youtu.be/UbFjiWOBErA

 

 

One more reason to move to Italy, as cancer is becoming sth of epidemic proportions!

[snowballthecat]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNb2ahMwh0c

 

 

Italy is a pioneer in Immunotherapy, offered for free in all the territory. 

[seasia]

Hi snowballthecat

 

Sorry for delay in response.

 

From what I was told at the local commune/town hall office, obtaining residency if an Italian national very straight forward.

Yes, the tax can be an issue if staying more than 6 months, worldwide income is taxed. No allowance and the rates high.

Some duck and dive on that or keep under 6 months.

Italian health standards are very highly rated. That an important factor to me looking ahead..

Stay someplace else for the remainder of the year, whether elsewhere in Europe, southern Spain maybe Greece/Turkey, SE Asia, Thailand or Vietnam.

Although a long haul from Europe, some options in central/south America, Colombia holds some appeal.

Easy 6 month visa, costs reasonable, medical standards high in international rankings.

 

I guess the travelling around could get tiring when older.

 

Still keeping my options open.

 

All the Best

[snowballthecat]

On 10/5/2019 at 2:10 AM, seasia said:

Hi snowballthecat

 

Sorry for delay in response.

 

From what I was told at the local commune/town hall office, obtaining residency if an Italian national very straight forward.

Yes, the tax can be an issue if staying more than 6 months, worldwide income is taxed. No allowance and the rates high.

Some duck and dive on that or keep under 6 months.

Italian health standards are very highly rated. That an important factor to me looking ahead..

Stay someplace else for the remainder of the year, whether elsewhere in Europe, southern Spain maybe Greece/Turkey, SE Asia, Thailand or Vietnam.

Although a long haul from Europe, some options in central/south America, Colombia holds some appeal.

Easy 6 month visa, costs reasonable, medical standards high in international rankings.

 

I guess the travelling around could get tiring when older.

 

Still keeping my options open.

 

All the Best

Thank you for the information.

yes, I am thinking about a SE country that nobody mentions (Sri Lanka)  AND Italy. Combined option. 

Also Greece, even though very expensive!  Love Greek islands and lovely mainland....

Have to explore Turkey also, looking to sail around the coast when the airfares goes down. 

As for good healthcare, Andorra is the one.(read online about it)

Also in the Basque country, Spain side, healthcare is excellent. Have friends original from Bilbao. Wonders.  

However, the most attractive European country for residence is still Portugal, it offers a 10-years-tax rebate with no obbligation to spend time there!

No Southamerica for me, being there, done that. Violent. We cherish a quiet life. 

[ExpatOilWorker]

On 6/11/2019 at 1:48 PM, KC 71 said:

The view though !


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Absolutely breathtaking view and a stark contrast to the current haze over Bangkok, where you check the PM2.5 reading daily!

How is the weather during the winter? You get snow at the ground at that altitude?

[Cryingdick]

On 7/2/2019 at 4:41 AM, snowballthecat said:

 

Have you ever consider spending  your winters in Crete, Cryingdick? Did you take any steps towards a moving, let's say, going a few month each year, making friends in Greece, etc? 

Just curious Why not many of the readers seem to choose Greece as a retirement destination?

 

I am actually American and after spending most my adult life around the world came back home. Some people may not like America culturally but as far as nature and landscapes go it rivals any country on the planet. I lived in Europe back on the day you could simply stay somewhere like Amsterdam get on a train cross to Germany and come back. I wouldn't know how to live in Greece visa wise. 

 

Other than that once you got tired of Feta cheese and cheap wine I think Crete would perhaps get a tad boring. But yeah I am lucky that I am pretty much happier in my own country than anywhere else in the world. I never left because I hated my homeland I left because there were so many places I wanted to see. I was chasing opportunities as well.

 

It is just so much simpler to live in my home country that I smile everyday to wake up have the rights of a citizen and understand the system.

[snowballthecat]

yes, back to square one!

 

[BritManToo]

I'm still considering Central France.

Plenty of run down farm houses with barns and 400m2 of land for sale at around 10,000 Euros.

I might buy one next year just as a 'throw away' European address.

If the roof leaks, I could always put a tent in the barn for the summer.

[swissie]

On 11/13/2019 at 2:07 PM, BritManToo said:

I'm still considering Central France.

Plenty of run down farm houses with barns and 400m2 of land for sale at around 10,000 Euros.

I might buy one next year just as a 'throw away' European address.

If the roof leaks, I could always put a tent in the barn for the summer.

Absolutely correct. Cheap R/E available. (Young folks find no work, moving to "bigger cities".) Small villages in the process of "dying". Internet connections questionable.
- Must speak French, otherwise will be living as a hermit. Think twice!

[elliss]

On 9/20/2019 at 12:35 PM, snowballthecat said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNb2ahMwh0c

 

 

Italy is a pioneer in Immunotherapy, offered for free in all the territory. 

      Should  Britain leave  the EU,   would these free services be available ? .