Alternative to Transferwise for Monthly transfers-new visa regs

[thetefldon]

I am on the 8th year of my retirement visa extension. I use the monthly income method(ex embassy letter). I currently use Transferwise for my monthly transfers of UK pensions to Thailand and am very satisfied with the service and charges. My payments have always(to date) attracted the "International Transfer" tag and are coded FTT in my Bangkok Bank account passbook/statement. However I have read a lot here suggesting that some people have had problems with the transfers from TW not being tagged as international.

 

Clearly one such un-tagged transfer would ruin the evidence trail required next year on my extension renewal. I don't really want to take that chance.

 

So here is a question.

 

Does anyone use First Direct in the UK for transfers? They are my UK bankers.

 

I haven't used them for years for sending money here because of the fees BUT on a recent visit to my account it appears that international transfers ONLINE are free(used to be 25GBP) With a choose to send Baht or Sterling.

 

Clearly I would transfer Sterling and let Bangkok Bank convert at the TT rate in Thailand. They will obviously charge 200-500 Baht for the service.

 

Any thoughts please.

 

I really only want to hear from anyone using FIRST DIRECT in the UK. As I said above I rate Transferwise and don't wish to hear about other FX comapnies.

 

Many thanks

 

 

[Tanoshi]

14 minutes ago, thetefldon said:

I haven't used them for years for sending money here because of the fees BUT on a recent visit to my account it appears that international transfers ONLINE are free(used to be 25GBP) With a choose to send Baht or Sterling.

Careful!

They are not free, you'll face an intermediary bank (HSBC) charge.

Payments to outside the EEA

You have different options to; you pay all the charges, share the charges or for the beneficiary to pay all charges.

The charge(s) applied to the payment will depend on the charging option selected.

• If you opt to pay all the fees: The charges in the table above will apply together with any intermediary, agency and beneficiary bank charges.
• If you opt to share the fees: The charge in the table above will apply together with any intermediary and agency bank charges.
• If you opt the beneficiary to pay all fees: No charges will be applied.

https://www1.firstdirect.com/travel-and-international/international-payments/#in-more-detail

[thetefldon]

4 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Careful!

They are not free, you'll face an intermediary bank (HSBC) charge.

Payments to outside the EEA

You have different options to; you pay all the charges, share the charges or for the beneficiary to pay all charges.

The charge(s) applied to the payment will depend on the charging option selected.

• If you opt to pay all the fees: The charges in the table above will apply together with any intermediary, agency and beneficiary bank charges.
• If you opt to share the fees: The charge in the table above will apply together with any intermediary and agency bank charges.
• If you opt the beneficiary to pay all fees: No charges will be applied.

https://www1.firstdirect.com/travel-and-international/international-payments/#in-more-detail

Thanks yes I read that on the FD site. Clearly as I stated, Bangkok Bank(beneficiary bank) charge(usually 200 Baht on what I transfer) guess it depends on what they mean by "intermediary and agency bank " As you say HSBC perhaps given FD is an arm of HSBC.

 

Appreciate your reply. What I really want is someone who is a FD customer and uses the service. Failing that I shall try a transfer.

[wgdanson]

I have recently made my 65k transfers to my Bkk Bank from First Direct, and was very pleased when the last one on 1st March arrived within 24 hours, in GBP, and was FREE OF CHARGE.

Just spoken with them and was assured that there are no fees when sending GBP to Thailand.

Edited March 9, 2019 by wgdanson

[thetefldon]

2 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

I have recently made my 65k transfers to my Bkk Bank from First Direct, and was very pleased when the last one on 1st March arrived within 24 hours, in GBP, and was FREE OF CHARGE.

Just spoken with them and was assured that there are no fees when sending GBP to Thailand.

Brilliant, just what i was looking for.

Did Bangkok bank charge for receiving the funds?

[Henryford]

Maybe you didn't pay a fee but was the charge built into the lower exchange rate you got from BB.

[Tanoshi]

21 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

I have recently made my 65k transfers to my Bkk Bank from First Direct, and was very pleased when the last one on 1st March arrived within 24 hours, in GBP, and was FREE OF CHARGE.

Just spoken with them and was assured that there are no fees when sending GBP to Thailand.

Check your account at the end of the month for an 'intermediary bank charge' to your FD account.

FD is not a clearing bank, HSBC are.

It has to go through a clearing bank and it would be a first if an intermediary bank did not charge for the service.

These 'intermediary charges' usually appear on your bank statements 2/3 weeks after the transfer was made.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, thetefldon said:

I really only want to hear from anyone using FIRST DIRECT in the UK. As I said above I rate Transferwise and don't wish to hear about other FX comapnies.

I have a First Direct account, they ain't out of country friendly and tried to close my account when they found I wasn't in the UK. Online and phone apps, don't work all that well either, I prefer to use Transferwise + Natwest bank.

 

@Tanoshi, FD is a subsidiary of HSBC.

Edited March 9, 2019 by BritManToo

[thetefldon]

Just now, BritManToo said:

I have a First Direct account, they ain't out of country friendly and tried to close my account when they found I wasn't in the UK.

Online and phone apps, don't work all that well either, I prefer to use Transferwise + Natwest bank.

Been out of the country for many years as a FD customer. Have UK credit card and debit card with them and all my UK pensions paid into my current account. Great service. Sorry you didn't find it so.

I too like Transferwise BUT I also like living in Thailand, I need evidence that I transfer 65,000 each month from the UK and it seems that at the moment TW cannot guarantee this. Which is why I am looking at alternatives.

[scubascuba3]

Maybe you didn't pay a fee but was the charge built into the lower exchange rate you got from BB.

Very possible which is why i like to get a credit advice so i can see any charges

[Tanoshi]

3 minutes ago, thetefldon said:

Been out of the country for many years as a FD customer. Have UK credit card and debit card with them and all my UK pensions paid into my current account. Great service. Sorry you didn't find it so.

I too like Transferwise BUT I also like living in Thailand, I need evidence that I transfer 65,000 each month from the UK and it seems that at the moment TW cannot guarantee this. Which is why I am looking at alternatives. 

It's not TW, you can print of the 'transfer confirmation' receipt from TW showing the transfer, it's the Thai banks that don't all record the source of the transfer.

If your TW transfer is paid from their BKK account, it's recorded as FTT by BKK, but if it's paid from their KK account to BKK it's recorded as 'local transfer' because KK don't inform BKK of the source.

You then have to request a 'credit receipt' from KK that details the foreign transfer.

[thetefldon]

5 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

It's not TW, you can print of the 'transfer confirmation' receipt from TW showing the transfer, it's the Thai banks that don't all record the source of the transfer.

If your TW transfer is paid from their BKK account, it's recorded as FTT by BKK, but if it's paid from their KK account to BKK it's recorded as 'local transfer' because KK don't inform BKK of the source.

You then have to request a 'credit receipt' from KK that details the foreign transfer.

Thanks, yes to all of that. Unfortunately the PDF file on Transferwise site would NOT APPEAR to be acceptable evidence for Thai Immigration, for example it does not show the UK originating bank and at the bottom it actually says "delivered by local bank transfer" OK as I said earlier at the moment all my transfer have gone to BB and shown up as international transfers. Appreciate you thoughts and thanks for the info on another bank being used.

[glegolo]

For what it is worth.... When sending from Sweden to Thailand it is common knowledge that we ALWAYS let th swedish bank do the conversation. They have a much better rate of exchange than any thai bank who always screw you over and take back money that way.

 

Transferwise no porblem there you just opted sek to Thb and send it... to a great roe.... Why english people and american people as I have seen it here over the years always seems to send thor own currency and let the receiving bank cnange I do not know.. Maybe my countrys banks are so much better then yours? I dont know really the reason, maybe somebody know??

[steve73]

Remember using Swift to make a transfer in GBP to your Thai bank will give you an exchange rate far below what you would get with TW.  Most Thai banks TT rate for GBP are around 1% less than the mid rate.  TW "fee" is 0.52% off the mid rate, so will always give a better rate than a Thai bank, regardless of any sending or receiving fees.

 

It's not always an easy comparison though.  TW fixes the rate when you send, Thai bank fixes it on arrival, and the mid rate could have moved in that time.. it may have moved up and you'd be lucky, or it may have moved down (so you need to make sure you send enough extra to cover that possibility).

 

There was a post in one of these many recent threads from someone who'd been told by TW to request that TW specifically use BBK for each transfer as it is made, to ensure it's actually coded as a international transaction.  I will make this same request (but for Kasikorn) when I make my next transfer.   

 

Use this link to check Thai bank TT rates: https://daytodaydata.net/

This shows the Friday closing TT rates, they vary from 41.08 to 41.248.  The mid-rate (currently fixed over the weekend) is 41.311.  This appears to be quite close, but the mid rate actually fell from around 41.5 at the time the Thai banks last updated their rates. 

[steve73]

14 minutes ago, glegolo said:

For what it is worth.... When sending from Sweden to Thailand it is common knowledge that we ALWAYS let th swedish bank do the conversation. They have a much better rate of exchange than any thai bank who always screw you over and take back money that way.

 

Transferwise no porblem there you just opted sek to Thb and send it... to a great roe.... Why english people and american people as I have seen it here over the years always seems to send thor own currency and let the receiving bank cnange I do not know.. Maybe my countrys banks are so much better then yours? I dont know really the reason, maybe somebody know??

UK banks give a really low rate for THB compared to the Thai banks.  I was once quoted about 4% less than the Thai banks were offering. (I never bothered to ask again after that)... But I appreciate that if it works for the SEK....

Also I've seen a few reports that if you send your money as THB, it doesn't always get recorded as international.. which is now an important factor for those of us who cannot get embassy letters.  I understand that Swedes are still able to get a letter, so the coding of your funds is irrelevant (unless perhaps you wanted a FET to buy a condo).

 

TW offers much better rates (see my previous post) but the problems with the transfers not always being coded as international (depending on the partner banks used) makes this a risky method for those who absolutely need it to be coded as such. 

[wgdanson]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

Check your account at the end of the month for an 'intermediary bank charge' to your FD account.

FD is not a clearing bank, HSBC are.

It has to go through a clearing bank and it would be a first if an intermediary bank did not charge for the service.

These 'intermediary charges' usually appear on your bank statements 2/3 weeks after the transfer was made.

Yes Tanoshi, you are correct. 2 x 20 quid was debited from my FD account with some reference to HSBC a month or so after the transfers.

So taking that into account, Transferwise is a better option. 

[jimn]

23 minutes ago, glegolo said:

For what it is worth.... When sending from Sweden to Thailand it is common knowledge that we ALWAYS let th swedish bank do the conversation. They have a much better rate of exchange than any thai bank who always screw you over and take back money that way.

 

Transferwise no porblem there you just opted sek to Thb and send it... to a great roe.... Why english people and american people as I have seen it here over the years always seems to send thor own currency and let the receiving bank cnange I do not know.. Maybe my countrys banks are so much better then yours? I dont know really the reason, maybe somebody know??

I am not doubting you because I dont know and I am not Swedish. I would say however that this seems most unusual. In every case from transfering from the UK it is always cheaper to send ££££ and for the money to be transferred into baht using the Thai banks TT exchange rate. The same goes with using a credit card abroad, never choose to let the originating bank do the exchange, it is always poor. Are you 100% sure what you state is true, as I say I am not doubting your belief but I will be very surprised if this is the case.

[Orton Rd]

1 hour ago, Henryford said:

Maybe you didn't pay a fee but was the charge built into the lower exchange rate you got from BB.

Of course it was they are not a charity doing it for nothing

[Kadilo]

19 minutes ago, steve73 said:

Remember using Swift to make a transfer in GBP to your Thai bank will give you an exchange rate far below what you would get with TW.  Most Thai banks TT rate for GBP are around 1% less than the mid rate.  TW "fee" is 0.52% off the mid rate, so will always give a better rate than a Thai bank, regardless of any sending or receiving fees.

. 

Not true. 

I have used my U.K.  and for the past two months using SWIFT for the same reasons as the OP and the rate was exactly the same as TW were offering. Where I did lose out was on the fee which the OP will not as it’s free. 

For me it’s a no brainier for him. 

 

[colinchaffers]

I use OFX it's like Transfer wise, but the money is sent and appears as a FTT transfer in your pass book and "international payment" on your statement for Bangkok bank. They charge £7 for the transfer. You pay the into thier London bank so if your using First Direct it should be free. The rate is not quite as good as transfer wise and varies on the amount sent. I have an app for them it's quite easy.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[thetefldon]

22 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Yes Tanoshi, you are correct. 2 x 20 quid was debited from my FD account with some reference to HSBC a month or so after the transfers.

So taking that into account, Transferwise is a better option. 

Thanks for that and info in PM. So 20 GBP a pop from First Direct who say it is free and a charge in Thailand by BB to receive it. Compare to a fee of around 14 GBP from Transferwise, a slightly better rate and no charge in Thailand.

 

A no brainer cost wise BUT peace of mind wise perhaps not.

 

Really appreciate the helpful comments on this thread.

[scubascuba3]

Yes Tanoshi, you are correct. 2 x 20 quid was debited from my FD account with some reference to HSBC a month or so after the transfers.

So taking that into account, Transferwise is a better option. 

I'm glad i didn't open a First Direct account on the back of another thread where a guy said it was zero charges, even FD website says the same. These banks are a dishonest bunch.

 

I did a Starling Bank transfer and charges were added on, even though their website says no charges

 

[trd]

I'm assuming those who want to transfer their UK pension to Thailand from their own bank is because they want to retain a UK address. Otherwise the UK pension office can transfer the money directly to your Thai account which will show up as an international transfer.

[thetefldon]

2 minutes ago, trd said:

I'm assuming those who want to transfer their UK pension to Thailand from their own bank is because they want to retain a UK address. Otherwise the UK pension office can transfer the money directly to your Thai account which will show up as an international transfer.

True, but I have several pensions and that option is not available on my main pension. So I retain a UK bank account. I would also question the exchange rate the "Age Pension" DWP apply in transfers they make in Baht.

[trd]

True, but I have several pensions and that option is not available on my main pension. So I retain a UK bank account. I would also question the exchange rate the "Age Pension" DWP apply in transfers they make in Baht.

Yes I would also be interested in the exchange rate applied by DWP if anyone has any experience of this. Like you I transfer out of my UK bank.

[Proboscis]

1 hour ago, glegolo said:

For what it is worth.... When sending from Sweden to Thailand it is common knowledge that we ALWAYS let th swedish bank do the conversation. They have a much better rate of exchange than any thai bank who always screw you over and take back money that way.

 

Transferwise no porblem there you just opted sek to Thb and send it... to a great roe.... Why english people and american people as I have seen it here over the years always seems to send thor own currency and let the receiving bank cnange I do not know.. Maybe my countrys banks are so much better then yours? I dont know really the reason, maybe somebody know??

The only reason Transferwise is in business is because of the awful foreign exchange rates given by the British banks. After you have paid fees plus lost 4 thousand dollars on the rate from your transfer from your high street bank on a transfer of 40,000 US dollars (as occurred with me), you start to look elsewhere.

 

I am only guessing but I think that part of Transferwise's business model is that they keep balances in the various countries they do business in. When a transfer is required, they simply transfer locally, hence very low cost but also no paper trail to prove that it was a transfer.

[Changoverandout]

29 minutes ago, trd said:

I'm assuming those who want to transfer their UK pension to Thailand from their own bank is because they want to retain a UK address. Otherwise the UK pension office can transfer the money directly to your Thai account which will show up as an international transfer.

Conversely my state pension, paid directly to my account, shows as Bahtnet (BTN) in my Bangkok bank account whereas when I send my private pensions via TW they show as FTT (foreign transfer).

DWP sent me a letter stating they send my pension directly into my Thai bank every 28 days. I hope immigration accepts it.

Edited March 9, 2019 by Changoverandout
Extra text

[bangkokbrian47]

I have been using TransferWise for the last six months and each time it has shown on my Bangkok Bank statement and in my passbook as an international transfer coded FTT - until just 3 days ago when my latest transfer showed up as SMB and not FTT. It appears that TransferWise used their TMB bank in Thailand for this particular transfer and not Bangkok Bank. I am thus in the unfortunate position of not being able to show an international transfer on a monthly basis required by Thai Immigration - so stuffed!

 

I contacted TMB bank in Bangkok with the relative transaction number but they said that they could not confirm that it was an international transfer and that I should contact TransferWise for them to confirm to my local Bangkok Bank that it was indeed an international transfer.

 

I am still awaiting their reply.

[thetefldon]

2 minutes ago, bangkokbrian47 said:

I have been using TransferWise for the last six months and each time it has shown on my Bangkok Bank statement and in my passbook as an international transfer coded FTT - until just 3 days ago when my latest transfer showed up as SMB and not FTT. It appears that TransferWise used their TMB bank in Thailand for this particular transfer and not Bangkok Bank. I am thus in the unfortunate position of not being able to show an international transfer on a monthly basis required by Thai Immigration - so stuffed!

 

I contacted TMB bank in Bangkok with the relative transaction number but they said that they could not confirm that it was an international transfer and that I should contact TransferWise for them to confirm to my local Bangkok Bank that it was indeed an international transfer.

 

I am still awaiting their reply.

Really sorry to hear that and evidence if any were needed that it can go wrong using TW. I hope you get it sorted. I have made well over 15 transfers and been lucky so far as they have all showed as FTT, but of course until 1/3/2019 that didn't really matter....but it clearly is a risk now. Think I may well head to First Direct and suffer the charges and poorer fx rate.

[sumrit]

26 minutes ago, colinchaffers said:

I use OFX it's like Transfer wise, but the money is sent and appears as a FTT transfer in your pass book and "international payment" on your statement for Bangkok bank. They charge £7 for the transfer. You pay the into thier London bank so if your using First Direct it should be free. The rate is not quite as good as transfer wise and varies on the amount sent. I have an app for them it's quite easy.

How long have you been using them?

 

When you receive confirmation of your transfer is their Partner bank named and, if so, is it always the same Thai Bank?

 

Are you sure every transfer to your BKKBank will be shown as FTT in the future?

 

I phoned them about three days ago to ask those questions about which Thai partner bank they use and if they used more than one partner, similar to TW.

I explained in detail that Thai Immigration requires the transfers to come from a foreign source and that proof was the reason for needing the information.

 

But after a discussion with their finance department their rep would only confirm that, like TW, they do use a Partner Bank in Thailand but couldn't/wouldn't give me the name of that bank or say whether they have a choice of partner banks that they can use in a similar way to TW.

 

I also suggested that, if they could guarantee a FTT transfer being recorded, for peace of mind, a lot of us expats would be likely to use their service. But they still weren't forthcoming with any information.

 

Apparently, in the near future, TW aim to introduce a system where you will be able to name the partner bank you would like them to use when you set up a transfer. I'll stick with them.