Medical flights or assistance from Thailand

[dallen52]

Good people,  I'm looking for advice on getting an elderly person back to Australia from Thailand. 

He had a collapsed lung. 

Just finished the treatment in Buriram hospital and his daughter's have arrived to try and get him home.

He is 91, and un insured.

 

I drove up yesterday to see him.

It appears a certificate of travel will be granted,  but i said to his daughter's its not that simple. 

He may be denied travel by the airline. 

 

So now they are considering a medical assistance flight or similar. 

 

Something we all might need to know about, so hopefully it generates some helpful answers. 

[ezzra]

The Australian embassy is a good place to start, they should know as they have dealt with such situations many times before.. good luck...

[Peterw42]

Most airlines have published requirements and documentation to be completed by treating doctor.

See below for Qantas

 

https://www.qantas.com/infodetail/flying/beforeYouTravel/mediform.pdf

[dallen52]

I just want to add to this post.

He is possibly not going to pull through this..

But i have found out some information. 

Its worth knowing. 

 

Qantas has a medical assistance form that has to be completed by a doctor. 

Which says 8 days minimum stability to 21 days, before he is accepted to fly. 

 

Thai airways has a similar form that needs completion.

But its directed at the agent more than the Passenger. 

Last page is a doctor's signing. 

 

 

So.

A few points worth taking on board if you are an elderly person here, or elsewhere in a later life escape. 

 

No insurance is available for elderly people. 

Arthur is 91.

Major airlines require a period of stability before permission to fly is given. 

 

So its not (sadly) as in Arthur's case,  a matter of his kin turning up and getting him on the first flight out.

Australia   UK,  USA etc.

 

Medevac. 

Its possible that it can be used. 

Expense I have yet to find out. 

 

I will post any more information as it comes to hand. 

[Sheryl]

Insurance IS available to elderly people. Not for him now, obvious;y, as he is already very ill. But healthy elderly people can get insurance. It costs, of course.

 

Medevac through any of the companies that do it is extremely  expensive.  It is better to do it yourself i.e. arrange for any needed medical equipment and liaise with the airlines yourself.

[RJRS1301]

14 minutes ago, dallen52 said:

I just want to add to this post.

He is possibly not going to pull through this..

But i have found out some information. 

Its worth knowing. 

 

Qantas has a medical assistance form that has to be completed by a doctor. 

Which says 8 days minimum stability to 21 days, before he is accepted to fly. 

 

Thai airways has a similar form that needs completion.

But its directed at the agent more than the Passenger. 

Last page is a doctor's signing. 

 

 

So.

A few points worth taking on board if you are an elderly person here, or elsewhere in a later life escape. 

 

No insurance is available for elderly people. 

Arthur is 91.

Major airlines require a period of stability before permission to fly is given. 

 

So its not (sadly) as in Arthur's case,  a matter of his kin turning up and getting him on the first flight out.

Australia   UK,  USA etc.

 

Medevac. 

Its possible that it can be used. 

Expense I have yet to find out. 

 

I will post any more information as it comes to hand. 

Insurance for many elderly is too expensive to afford really until you consider the cost of Medivac to Oz which could work out to around $50,000 to $100,000.

Financial assistance from Embassy will only be in form of a loan, with suitable security, such as a house deed etc.

 

 

[dallen52]

10 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Insurance IS available to elderly people. Not for him now, obvious;y, as he is already very ill. But healthy elderly people can get insurance. It costs, of course.

 

Medevac through any of the companies that do it is extremely  expensive.  It is better to do it yourself i.e. arrange for any needed medical equipment and liaise with the airlines yourself.

Thanks Sheryl. 

Yes insurance obviously at a price is always possible. 

The air (oxygen) is pre loaded as required by the person who may need it. 

Plus they have a normal supply as required.

I was going off what his daughter said regarding insurance. 

They obviously are pretty emotional about his being back here again. 

Ex campaigner, mercenary, 20 plus years doing charity work for Brother Rays in Pattaya,  wife passes a few years ago after 62 years and he starts to come back here and i suppose live his dream.

 

Possibly not thinking about the final days and family in Australia too much. 

 

Don't think medevac will be required, but ever positive.

Every day is a bonus  

[Peterw42]

31 minutes ago, dallen52 said:

Qantas has a medical assistance form that has to be completed by a doctor. 

Which says 8 days minimum stability to 21 days, before he is accepted to fly.

I think you may have read the form wrong, its 0-7 days cannot fly, 8-21 days needs the doctor to complete form, over 21 days can fly.

[dallen52]

53 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

I think you may have read the form wrong, its 0-7 days cannot fly, 8-21 days needs the doctor to complete form, over 21 days can fly.

I thought that's what I wrote.   

Less than 7 days no go.

8 to 21 needs doctor to sign.

Which would mean after 21 he would be free to decide himself. 

 

Just reading further. 

Its also the ground crew or senior officers decision as to whether they consider you ok to travel. 

If you are looking like s*it they can refuse boarding. 

[Sheryl]

7 minutes ago, dallen52 said:

I thought that's what I wrote.   

Less than 7 days no go.

8 to 21 needs doctor to sign.

Which would mean after 21 he would be free to decide himself. 

 

Just reading further. 

Its also the ground crew or senior officers decision as to whether they consider you ok to travel. 

If you are looking like s*it they can refuse boarding. 

 

Yes, they can, but IF he has a "Fitness to Fly" certificate signed by a doctor they usually will not unless it is really obvious he is in acute distress. Afer all, they are nto medically trained. Even unconscious people can board with a "Fitness to Fly" certificate though of course with medical accompaniment.

 

If he is unable to sit up, will be required to pay for a whole row of seats. If needs to stay on  stretcher then pay for not only the whole row but cost of removing and later reinstalling them and this, usually in business class.

 

Aim to get him out as after day 8 as possible - don't risk him deterioriating to the point where things like this would be needed.

[cooked]

Repatriation insurance is a lot cheaper than illness insurance. I only found out about it two months after my 65th birthday, which disqualified me.


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[dallen52]

29 minutes ago, cooked said:

Repatriation insurance is a lot cheaper than illness insurance. I only found out about it two months after my 65th birthday, which disqualified me.


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Excludes me too, now.

[dallen52]

Just an update for information. 

 

Arthur was transferred to Buriram hospital from Nangrong yesterday. 

Both lungs stopped working. 

They tubed him and ambulance to Buriram. 60km.

Distraught daughter called me last night and said they had him strapped to a bed, arms and legs bound with a respirator stuck in him.

All against his and the daughters wishes. 

And no one was listening to her 

 

He was almost gone, wants to sleep and end it all.

 

Emergency calls were trying to be made to Australian Embassy for assistance. 

The emergency numbers were not answering. 

They just want the hospital to stop.

Let him go to sleep. 

 

All i could suggest was tell them he is public and no insurance..

Maybe some other news today..????

 

[Sheryl]

Sorry to hear this.

I take it he never made an advanced directive (living will)? If he did, the hospital is required to honor it.

Is his daughter in Thailand now? If she is, she should continue to demand the life support be withdrawn. Insist on talking to the hospital director (no one else will make the decision). She needs to be very assertive. And tell them at every stage that the family will not pay for this treatment because they and the patient do not consent to it.

And, obviously, refuse to sign any consent forms.

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[Sheryl]

Sorry to hear this.

I take it he never made an advanced directive (living will)? If he did, the hospital is required to honor it.

Is his daughter in Thailand now? If she is, she should continue to demand the lufe support be withdrawn. Insist on talking to the hospital director (no one else will make the de ision). She needs to be very asdertuve. And tell them at every stage that the family will not pay for this treatment because they and the payient do not consent to it.

And, obviously, refuse to sign any consent forms.

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[dallen52]

5 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Sorry to hear this.

I take it he never made an advanced directive (living will)? If he did, the hospital is required to honor it.

Is his daughter in Thailand now? If she is, she should continue to demand the life support be withdrawn. Insist on talking to the hospital director (no one else will make the decision). She needs to be very assertive. And tell them at every stage that the family will not pay for this treatment because they and the patient do not consent to it.

And, obviously, refuse to sign any consent forms.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Its a crazy place for sure.

Nangrong comes under Buriram but Buriram went completely out of control in relation to the Nangrong treatment plan. 

 

They had his thai lady friend filling out forms last night to tell them what school he went to!!!!  Totally irrelevant. 

 

I can see why the daughters are aggrieved and looking for sanity to prevail. 

 

My last message to his daughter's was,

Tell them he wants to rest.

No more treatments. 

And he is a 91 year old public patient who has no insurance cover..

 

I haven't heard from them today. 

I think regardless of what Buriram hospital does, its looking grim.

 

The last thing they need is the taxi meter still generating charges.. (hospital).

 

 

Hope there's some take outs in this for forum members..

 

He didn't invoke a power of attorney or have a directive that I'm aware of. 

Im sure it was the last thing he was probably thinking about. 

He was fully cohesive and chatting away Friday night .

 

I know with mum in the UK we had a do not resuscitate placed in her care home medical file. 

[brokenbone]

if flying first class, is it possible to pull down back support

to resemble  a bed ?

is there any way to get a bed of sorts when flying ?

[Sheryl]

No. For people that need to be on beds what they do is take out a whole row of seats to fit in a stretcher (and charge accordingly).

 

From the sounds of things he is no longer stable enough for flying.  The issue now is to persuade the hospital to stop life support.

 

 

[dallen52]

19 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

No. For people that need to be on beds what they do is take out a whole row of seats to fit in a stretcher (and charge accordingly).

 

From the sounds of things he is no longer stable enough for flying.  The issue now is to persuade the hospital to stop life support.

 

 

I sent them (Arthur's daughters) the flight information forms for Thai airways. 

Yes they can remove the whole row of seats and accommodate some basic equipment like personal oxygen. 

 

I appreciate everyone's concern, and hope we never find ourselves in this predicament.

 

Will obviously post an update on his condition. 

But its not good.

 

The what next come into play as well.

He was 91, his partner 44.

Platonic friends...

He put a fair amount into the house in the village. Cash wise. Like we do.

He would have personal effects to be collected and possibly legal papers, cash.

 

She has no visa currently for Australia.

So its unlikely that she would go to his funeral in Australia. Expired. 

 

Possibly a wat service and cremation here.

All things that his daughter's have little experience with.

 

Do you need a passport and other papers to take a body out of Thailand?

 

 

I can see a drive to Nangrong on the cards shortly..

[roo860]

I sent them (Arthur's daughters) the flight information forms for Thai airways. 
Yes they can remove the whole row of seats and accommodate some basic equipment like personal oxygen. 
 
I appreciate everyone's concern, and hope we never find ourselves in this predicament.
 
Will obviously post an update on his condition. 
But its not good.
 
The what next come into play as well.
He was 91, his partner 44.
Platonic friends...
He put a fair amount into the house in the village. Cash wise. Like we do.
He would have personal effects to be collected and possibly legal papers, cash.
 
She has no visa currently for Australia.
So its unlikely that she would go to his funeral in Australia. Expired. 
 
Possibly a wat service and cremation here.
All things that his daughter's have little experience with.
 
Do you need a passport and other papers to take a body out of Thailand?
 
 
I can see a drive to Nangrong on the cards shortly..

Tell you something mate, I don't normally feel a lot of sympathy for someone I've never met, but this story has really touched me, I just hope he's allowed to go to sleep peacefully.
Bless him.

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[uhuh]

2 hours ago, brokenbone said:

if flying first class, is it possible to pull down back support

to resemble  a bed ?

is there any way to get a bed of sorts when flying ?

This patient seems to be not fit to fly at all.

 

But usually, in long-haul business and first class you have a 180° flat seat. So yes, it is a bed.

BUT you have to put your seat in an upright position for take-off and landing (15-20 minutes each). A patient who cannot sit up for 20 minutes needs a stretcher as described by Sheryl.

And most airlines (certainly those flying between Thailand and Australia) will limit the medical equipment in business class: oxygen is possible, iv drip not. 

 

You don't have flat-bed seats on short-haul flights and on low cost carriers like Air Asia.

[brokenbone]

1 hour ago, uhuh said:

This patient seems to be not fit to fly at all.

 

But usually, in long-haul business and first class you have a 180° flat seat. So yes, it is a bed.

BUT you have to put your seat in an upright position for take-off and landing (15-20 minutes each). A patient who cannot sit up for 20 minutes needs a stretcher as described by Sheryl.

And most airlines (certainly those flying between Thailand and Australia) will limit the medical equipment in business class: oxygen is possible, iv drip not. 

 

You don't have flat-bed seats on short-haul flights and on low cost carriers like Air Asia.

thanks, do you happen to know roughly the price difference

between 1st class & regular ticket ?

also is there any difference between 1st class & business ?

[Gulfsailor]

3 minutes ago, brokenbone said:

thanks, do you happen to know roughly the price difference

between 1st class & regular ticket ?

also is there any difference between 1st class & business ?

Business class is generally 3-5x economy cost. 

First class generally 8-12x economy cost. 

[uhuh]

1 hour ago, brokenbone said:

thanks, do you happen to know roughly the price difference

between 1st class & regular ticket ?

also is there any difference between 1st class & business 

 

1st class is rather luxurious (depending on airline: free chauffeur service to and from airport,  free massage,  things like this), business class is just nice (not cramped, can lie flat, privacy, good food).

 

A patient will usually be put in business class,  not in 1st class.  The airline figures people in 1st paid 10000 $, spare them the sight of a sick person. 

 

[dallen52]

13 hours ago, roo860 said:

Tell you something mate, I don't normally feel a lot of sympathy for someone I've never met, but this story has really touched me, I just hope he's allowed to go to sleep peacefully.
Bless him.

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I find a huge percentage of people on the forum are sincere and caring about just about everything. 

 

Arthur was a friend of mine who i met through Brother Rays in pattaya. 

He met his thai friend and saved her from a life of #@*& at the Corner Bar pattaya. 

He was 86 then. (Mad fool).

His wife of 62 years had passed.

I suppose he found solace in his actions. 

 

It turned out she was from the same village as my partner in Nangrong. 

He saw no malice in her or anyone. 

Even at 91 he was teaching kids English in the village. 

Put the air conditioning in the house and within 3 to 4 days his lungs started to give up. 

One collapsed, the other filling with fluid. 

Coincidence,?

I don't think so.

 

I haven't had any replies yet from his daughter's. 

I'm not expecting good news.

 

Just another thing that we all have to be mindful of when we choose to live in the Land of Smiles.

We all have families and loved ones overseas. 

 

As Sheryl mentioned,  a living will, or as i did with mum in the UK,  we had a do not resuscitate in her medical care notes.

 

**********************

I just seen on Facebook that Arthur passed away. 5am this morning. 

Someone posted pictures of his body being taken to the home in Nangrong. 

 

Oh well, we tried..

RIP Arthur Lea.

[RJRS1301]

11 hours ago, brokenbone said:

thanks, do you happen to know roughly the price difference

between 1st class & regular ticket ?

also is there any difference between 1st class & business ?

To Australia from Thailand only direct flight is Thai, only business class available. About 4 time cost full flexi ticket I think

Air Asia has flat beds to Australia, but it is hardly business class.

[RJRS1301]

13 hours ago, roo860 said:

Tell you something mate, I don't normally feel a lot of sympathy for someone I've never met, but this story has really touched me, I just hope he's allowed to go to sleep peacefully.
Bless him.

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Transporting a body overseas is very very very expensive includes two sealed caskets, and body preservation, cert sating no transmissible diseases, costs both ends for funeral directors.

Better for cremation and repatriation of cremated remains

[RJRS1301]

17 hours ago, dallen52 said:

Its a crazy place for sure.

Nangrong comes under Buriram but Buriram went completely out of control in relation to the Nangrong treatment plan. 

 

They had his thai lady friend filling out forms last night to tell them what school he went to!!!!  Totally irrelevant. 

 

I can see why the daughters are aggrieved and looking for sanity to prevail. 

 

My last message to his daughter's was,

Tell them he wants to rest.

No more treatments. 

And he is a 91 year old public patient who has no insurance cover..

 

I haven't heard from them today. 

I think regardless of what Buriram hospital does, its looking grim.

 

The last thing they need is the taxi meter still generating charges.. (hospital).

 

 

Hope there's some take outs in this for forum members..

 

He didn't invoke a power of attorney or have a directive that I'm aware of. 

Im sure it was the last thing he was probably thinking about. 

He was fully cohesive and chatting away Friday night .

 

I know with mum in the UK we had a do not resuscitate placed in her care home medical file. 

Advanced care directives are only valid if drawn up while person can consult a medical person to explain the whole situation of refusing care.

Appoint a medical attorney to act on their behalf if they cannot make decisions

Doctors can choose to ignore them on ethical grounds,

and are they even valid in Thailand??

 

[RJRS1301]

23 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Sorry to hear this.

I take it he never made an advanced directive (living will)? If he did, the hospital is required to honor it.

Is his daughter in Thailand now? If she is, she should continue to demand the life support be withdrawn. Insist on talking to the hospital director (no one else will make the decision). She needs to be very assertive. And tell them at every stage that the family will not pay for this treatment because they and the patient do not consent to it.

And, obviously, refuse to sign any consent forms.

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Kick the plug from the wall after disarming the machine

 

[roo860]

Apparently he's already passed away.

RIP Arthur.

 

Kick the plug from the wall after disarming the machine

 

 

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