Missed the 3 month $easoning window - options?

[Redmond]

I've been on retirement extensions for the past three years but somehow this year it just totally slipped my mind (not the renewal itself - the seasoning requirement of three months is what slipped my mind).  For some reason I had 2 months stuck in my head.

 

I have no problem getting the 800K into Kasikorn (it's already there, actually, it's just split between two different accounts).  But since my current extension expires on May 25, I can't meet the 3 month requirement.

 

That brings me to the options:

 

1. I suppose I could go to Kasikorn and have them merge the monies into one account so that it would total 800K, then fly out and get a new O-A in Vietnam, which means I'd only need to show two months of $easoning.  Would that raise any eyebrows?

 

2. Will immigration (Chaengwatthana) accept my 800K even though it's not all in a single account?  Part is in a savings account and the rest is in a CD.  Between the two of them, I think it's over 1 million baht.  That amount has been in the bank for much more than three months so that would solve all my problems - but would immigration accept it or does it have to be in a single savings account?

 

3. Use an agent.  I have no idea how to do this but I see it mentioned in many discussions here.  This feels like a last resort and I'd like to avoid it if possible.

 

Any other options I missed?

 

Thanks, Red.

[ubonjoe]

The new rules that went into effect on March 1st reduced the 3 months to 2 months so it appears that solves your problem.

But you will have to keep the 800k baht in the bank for 3 months after you apply for the extension and the 400k baht until you top up your account to 800k baht for the next extension.

No problem to have the money in more than one account.

[ChouDoufu]

15 minutes ago, Redmond said:

I have no problem getting the 800K into Kasikorn (it's already there, actually, it's just split between two different accounts). 

isn't it possible to use two accounts that combined have the required amount and seasoning?  in that case, need two bank letters, yes?

 

how long has the 800k total been sitting in the two accounts?

[jacko45k]

1. Other than you cannot get an O-A, rather look for a Non Imm O Single. Starting again in effect is OK.

2. If by CD you actually mean FD, where you can access the money with only loss of interest that sounds like the plan as it should be acceptable. Providing you can show the total never went below 800,000 for 3 months.  No need for it to be in a single account.

3. Last resort, seems unnecessary.

 

Perhaps 2 months pre-seasoning will be accepted, I am unsure!

Edited March 13, 2019 by jacko45k

[ubonjoe]

19 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Perhaps 2 months pre-seasoning will be accepted, I am unsure!

It will certainly be accepted under the new rules.

This is from a handout given to people applying for the extensions now.

[Redmond]

38 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The new rules that went into effect on March 1st reduced the 3 months to 2 months so it appears that solves your problem.

 

If true, that's great.  However I went to what I think is immigration web site and can not get beyond this page: https://www.immigration.go.th/faq

 

I clicked on #1 (Procedure, and regulation of Immigration for each extension together with documents required) and the next page that comes up is all in Thai and the 'switch language' button does nothing.

 

Can someone point me to the new rules?

 

16 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

2. If by CD you actually mean FD, where you can access the money with only loss of interest that sounds like the plan as it should be

 

I don't know what the correct term is.  It's a deposit account (I call it that because I have been making annual deposits into it for five years) that gives me medical insurance and life insurance benefits as long as I deposit a certain amount of money into it each year.  It also pays me an annual dividend based on my balance.  I could cash it in at any time and get the money, but then I'd lose the medical coverage.

 

31 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

how long has the 800k total been sitting in the two accounts?

 

I just did a quick calculation based on my deposit history and the one account surpassed the 800K mark back in September of 2018, so by May of this year it will have been more than seven months.  I do have another savings account at Kasikorn but I wouldn't need to include it since the first one is more than 800K by itself.

 

Also the account that has 800K in it did not come with a passbook, so the only thing I'd be able to show immigration is a letter from the bank.

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, Redmond said:

If true, that's great.  However I went to what I think is immigration web site and can not get beyond this page:

Read my previous post.

 

11 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

It will certainly be accepted under the new rules.

This is from a handout given to people applying for the extensions now.

You will not find it on the immigration website other than in a announcement (in Thai) that was done in January about the new rules.

They have not updated their website to show the new rules that went into effect on the 1st of this month.

[CMNightRider]

The more I read about Thai Immigrations rules and new rules about their financial requirements to obtain a simple one year visa extension, the more hysterical the whole process has become.  

 

I wonder where these people came up with the term "seasoning" to describe the length of time money should be held in a Thai bank?  Was the writer a fan of cooking shows and picked up on this term?

 

If all this nonsense wasn't having such a negative impact on so many expat retirees, it would be laughable.  However, reporting to Thai Immigration for anything is no laughing matter, unless you happen to be one of the smug posters who think retirees being denied visa extensions are what immigration refers to as (bad foreigners).   

[mokwit]

4 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

one of the smug posters who think retirees being denied visa extensions are what immigration refers to as (bad foreigners).

When it is their turn they will find out the class of "good" falangs looked upon favourably by the Thai authorities existed only in their heads.

[attrayant]

2 hours ago, Redmond said:

It's a deposit account (I call it that because I have been making annual deposits into it for five years) that gives me medical insurance and life insurance benefits as long as I deposit a certain amount of money into it each year.  It also pays me an annual dividend based on my balance.  I could cash it in at any time and get the money, but then I'd lose the medical coverage.

 

Is this what you have?  Life Insurance: Whole Life 99/5

 

I don't think it's a fixed deposit account, although it seems to function like one in that you make regular deposits, get a return on your balance, have a maturity date, etc. I don't know if immigration will accept this as a fixed deposit account.  This is probably one of those things where you won't know if it'll be accepted until you try.

 

[edit] and if you don't have a reliable plan B, I wouldn't risk trying.

 

 

Edited March 13, 2019 by attrayant

[Puchaiyank]

There is so much room for a scour puss IO to make life miserable...I am working on having the required amount 4 months early to circumvent any close scrunity...

[Redmond]

 

23 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

You will not find it on the immigration website other than in a announcement (in Thai) that was done in January about the new rules.

 

Can you provide the link to the Thai announcement?  I'd like to get one of my Thai relatives to read it.  It makes me feel better if I can see it somewhere on their website, even if it's only in Thai.

 

21 hours ago, attrayant said:

Is this what you have?  Life Insurance: Whole Life 99/5

 

That looks like it, but my card says 5/90.  Maybe Kasikorn has changed it since I first opened the account.  I think I'll visit Kasikorn in the next few days to see if they think this account can be used to support a retirement extension, and would be willing to issue a letter confirming the balance.  

[jwdub]

On 3/13/2019 at 1:30 PM, ubonjoe said:

It will certainly be accepted under the new rules.

This is from a handout given to people applying for the extensions now.

Well, I just got back 10 minutes ago from Jomtien Immg. and was told by the man at the front desk that it's 3 months prior seasoning needed for renewing a retirement visa. Is their any chance that the above handout pertained solely to initial claims and not renewals? I really wish that Immg. would get their act together and formally publish the new guidelines.

[Peterhua]

15 minutes ago, jwdub said:

Well, I just got back 10 minutes ago from Jomtien Immg. and was told by the man at the front desk that it's 3 months prior seasoning needed for renewing a retirement visa. Is their any chance that the above handout pertained solely to initial claims and not renewals? I really wish that Immg. would get their act together and formally publish the new guidelines.

Thanks

 If what you're saying is correct then it makes a difference to many in their financial planning for up coming visa renewals

[ubonjoe]

35 minutes ago, jwdub said:

Is their any chance that the above handout pertained solely to initial claims and not renewals? I

No

The same handout has been given to people at Jomtien.

It think the person you talked to was not familiar with new rules.

[jwdub]

1 hour ago, Peterhua said:

Thanks

 If what you're saying is correct then it makes a difference to many in their financial planning for up coming visa renewals

Agreed, Trust me I'm in the same boat. My visa is up mid July and I'm not sure if I need to transfer the deposit in the next couple of weeks or can wait until May.

Edited March 14, 2019 by jwdub

[dotpoom]

On 3/13/2019 at 12:43 PM, ubonjoe said:

The new rules that went into effect on March 1st reduced the 3 months to 2 months so it appears that solves your problem.

But you will have to keep the 800k baht in the bank for 3 months after you apply for the extension and the 400k baht until you top up your account to 800k baht for the next extension.

No problem to have the money in more than one account.

Your last point is very interesting (can have the money in different accounts).

  I was just wondering if that is on condition that they are in the same bank. In other words....could a person have 400,000 Bt. in a certain bank and another 400,000 Bt. in a different bank (lodged for over 3 months of course)....just curious.

[Joe Mcseismic]

16 hours ago, jwdub said:

Agreed, Trust me I'm in the same boat. My visa is up mid July and I'm not sure if I need to transfer the deposit in the next couple of weeks or can wait until May.

If you're not sure, why risk going back to square one. Bring the money in April.

[steve73]

17 hours ago, jwdub said:

Agreed, Trust me I'm in the same boat. My visa is up mid July and I'm not sure if I need to transfer the deposit in the next couple of weeks or can wait until May.

I was told quite clearly it still needed to be in for 3 months prior to applying... for all applications (even incl. first time extension).  This is obviously something that varies from office to office, so its best you ask YOUR local office, or just assume they'll want 3 months to be on the safe side.  Not worth risking losing your extension for the sake of one month IMO.

[gk10002000]

On ‎3‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 12:00 AM, CMNightRider said:

The more I read about Thai Immigrations rules and new rules about their financial requirements to obtain a simple one year visa extension, the more hysterical the whole process has become.  

 

I wonder where these people came up with the term "seasoning" to describe the length of time money should be held in a Thai bank?  Was the writer a fan of cooking shows and picked up on this term?

 

If all this nonsense wasn't having such a negative impact on so many expat retirees, it would be laughable.  However, reporting to Thai Immigration for anything is no laughing matter, unless you happen to be one of the smug posters who think retirees being denied visa extensions are what immigration refers to as (bad foreigners).   

So by the deposit method, a person must have 800k on deposit for 5 continuous months at a time around the extension renewal times, and a person must keep a 400k Baht on deposit at all times.  So a person could toe the line and has 7 months of the year where they could draw down 400k baht/7 = ~ 57,142 baht a month.  I'm just pondering and mulling things over.  I always wanted to do the income method as my money is invested quite nicely where it is and kept in the USA.  Setting up monthly transfers is not a huge obstacle but since I am sure that even though I will be retired, I will be spending about 1/2 my time in the States as well as Thailand.  So the idea of every month transferring in money to Thailand, even though I am not there just really rubs me the wrong way.  I probably will end up not getting the retirement visa initially, and just do two SETVs with one extension each year.  I can easily put the 400/800 k baht on deposit, and while not my first choice, it is gaining momentum based on its simplicity and less paperwork.

[JackThompson]

6 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

So by the deposit method, a person must have 800k on deposit for 5 continuous months at a time around the extension renewal times

By the new-rules, yes - but your local office might demand 6 continuous - 3 before and 3 after - since they are allowed to make up any "interpretation" they want to screw-over people, to maximize their side-money and/or avoid doing work.

 

8 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

Setting up monthly transfers is not a huge obstacle but since I am sure that even though I will be retired, I will be spending about 1/2 my time in the States as well as Thailand.  So the idea of every month transferring in money to Thailand, even though I am not there just really rubs me the wrong way. 

A good option would be applying for a Non-OA Visa at a Thai consulate in the USA.  No need to move any money to Thailand to get this, and you are going to be there months every year, so no "extra travel" involved to fetch one.  The only downside is needing police-check and medical-check docs.

 

8 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

I probably will end up not getting the retirement visa initially, and just do two SETVs with one extension each year. 

Be careful where you enter the country using that plan.  Immigration at bad entry-points such as the Bangkok airports (where they make up non-existent rules, then lie about why they really denied entry to hide their lawbreaking), are increasingly making problems for those spending more than short (1 or 2 week) occasional visits as tourists, now.   Older snowbirds from Germany, etc have been interrogated / hassled.

 

If you enter via any land-border other than Aranyaprathet/Poipet, and have 20K Baht worth of cash or travelers checks to show, you should be OK with the 2 Tourist Visas / Year approach - for now, at least.  But those paying immigration to drive Westerners out of the country may close off those avenues for longer-spending Western tourists, soon.

[CMBob]

30 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

So by the deposit method, a person must have 800k on deposit for 5 continuous months at a time around the extension renewal times, and a person must keep a 400k Baht on deposit at all times. 

Actually, the 2 months before (presuming that applies to initial and subsequent extensions) is 2 months before the application date....so it would appear that the actual 800k seasoning time is 5+ months (one can renew in Chiangmai 45 days early so the seasoning period for the 800k amount for that entire period would be 6.5 months). 

[tgeezer]

1 hour ago, gk10002000 said:

probably will end up not getting the retirement visa initially, and just do two SETVs with one extension each year.  I can easily put the 400/800 k baht on deposit, and while not my first choice, it is gaining momentum based on its simplicity and less paperwork.

My first priority would be the most convenient and straight forward way of visiting a Thailand for half the year. In the first year it involves one application at the Thai embassy in your home country. 

One transfer of Bt800,000, plus spending money. 

The income method is a little more work but provided you do not need to spend Bt65000 per month it wouldn’t be many years before you would have accumulated enough cash through transfers to use the Bt 800,000 method. 

I see no convenience in an annual application process or in “visa runs” . 

Many people who have spent years doing “visa runs”, on reaching fifty years old and delighted to be able to give it up. 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2019 by tgeezer

[Suradit69]

On March 13, 2019 at 2:00 PM, CMNightRider said:

requirements to obtain a simple one year visa extension, the more hysterical the whole process has become.  

Especially hysterical is the inability of many Farang to fathom that you cannot extend a visa ... ever. No it's not just semantics. Permissions to stay and visas are different things in the Thai context.

 

But that has been hysterical for ages., especially among farang "experts."

Edited March 15, 2019 by Suradit69

[sotsira]

On 3/13/2019 at 12:43 PM, ubonjoe said:

The new rules that went into effect on March 1st reduced the 3 months to 2 months so it appears that solves your problem.

But you will have to keep the 800k baht in the bank for 3 months after you apply for the extension and the 400k baht until you top up your account to 800k baht for the next extension.

No problem to have the money in more than one account.

ubonjoe,

I'm in a similar position as to the OP, whereby I've previously used the income method for my retirement extension in the last 3 years.

My extension date is due in August, and would need to know whether the seasoning period would be 2 months or 3, as I don't know if I'm 

perceived to be a new applicant or old due to my Retirement based

visa started 3 years ago.

 

My second query, is that I have a Bangkok bank foreign currency a/c

which holds my funds in £ sterling which I transferred from my bank

in the UK, could I use this a/c with the equivalent of £ sterling that

equates to 800k Baht (£20,000) or does it need to be in Thai baht?

Fyi I'm using the Jomtien IO office.

[curtklay]

21 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

No

The same handout has been given to people at Jomtien.

It think the person you talked to was not familiar with new rules.

Handout or not, you are at the mercy of how the IO interprets the new rules. Best to play it safe and figure 3 months. If you hit a brick wall, they aren't going to give a damn when you say, "But ubonjoe said..." (no disrespect, Joe).

 

Another question is how they figure the 3 months. If you put the money in the bank today (Mar. 15) is it 3 months to June 15, or are they going to say it has to be 3 full calendar months (April, May, June) to July 1?

 

I may be over-thinking the matter, but if you haven't learned to cover your butt, you haven't been here long enough.

Edited March 15, 2019 by curtklay

[Skeptic7]

On 3/14/2019 at 9:26 AM, jwdub said:

Agreed, Trust me I'm in the same boat. My visa is up mid July and I'm not sure if I need to transfer the deposit in the next couple of weeks or can wait until May.

Yeah I'll definitely make it 3+ months, as it is well and widely known that regardless how clear something appears (or is assumed) to be clear, NOTHING is ever clear here...except clear as mud. MANY different offices have different rules, requirements, and Interpretations and enforcements. And worse still is each officer has a different level of understanding...or lack thereof. 

 

In Thailand, always error on the side of caution! Relying on reason, logic, basic understanding and common sense is always a recipe for disaster here in Land of Inconsistent. 

Edited March 15, 2019 by Skeptic7

[gk10002000]

22 hours ago, JackThompson said:

By the new-rules, yes - but your local office might demand 6 continuous - 3 before and 3 after - since they are allowed to make up any "interpretation" they want to screw-over people, to maximize their side-money and/or avoid doing work.

 

A good option would be applying for a Non-OA Visa at a Thai consulate in the USA.  No need to move any money to Thailand to get this, and you are going to be there months every year, so no "extra travel" involved to fetch one.  The only downside is needing police-check and medical-check docs.

 

Be careful where you enter the country using that plan.  Immigration at bad entry-points such as the Bangkok airports (where they make up non-existent rules, then lie about why they really denied entry to hide their lawbreaking), are increasingly making problems for those spending more than short (1 or 2 week) occasional visits as tourists, now.   Older snowbirds from Germany, etc have been interrogated / hassled.

 

If you enter via any land-border other than Aranyaprathet/Poipet, and have 20K Baht worth of cash or travelers checks to show, you should be OK with the 2 Tourist Visas / Year approach - for now, at least.  But those paying immigration to drive Westerners out of the country may close off those avenues for longer-spending Western tourists, soon.

I like your idea of just doing Non-OA visa every year?  I presume I could purchase one and get a re-entry permit apriori or anytime I leave Thailand, and then I could go back to Thailand anytime during the period the Visa was valid.  Are there any issues with getting Non O-A visas back to back or in consecutive years? 

[ubonjoe]

44 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

I like your idea of just doing Non-OA visa every year?  I presume I could purchase one and get a re-entry permit apriori or anytime I leave Thailand, and then I could go back to Thailand anytime during the period the Visa was valid.  Are there any issues with getting Non O-A visas back to back or in consecutive years? 

You would not need a re-entry permit until after the OA visa expires in one year from the date it is issued. It allows unlimited one year entries for a year from the date it is issued. You could do an entry just before it expires and get almost 2 years of total stay form it. After the visa expires you would need a re-entry permit to keep that last entry valid.

There are people have been getting the OA visa for several years back to back without a problem.

[gk10002000]

30 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You would not need a re-entry permit until after the OA visa expires in one year from the date it is issued. It allows unlimited one year entries for a year from the date it is issued. You could do an entry just before it expires and get almost 2 years of total stay form it. After the visa expires you would need a re-entry permit to keep that last entry valid.

There are people have been getting the OA visa for several years back to back without a problem.

Really? So the OA allows you to come and go as you please?  That makes that basically a slam dunk for the first year or so.  Then after that, get another one.  Heck that could be a total of almost 4 years time span and would seem to be perfect.  Many thanks.