Boeing faces crisis with worldwide grounding of 737 MAX jetliners

[webfact]

Boeing faces crisis with worldwide grounding of 737 MAX jetliners

By David Shepardson

 

An American Airlines Boeing 737 MAX 8 flight from Los Angeles approaches to land at Reagan National Airport shortly after an announcement was made by the FAA that the planes were being grounded by the United States over safety issues in Washington, U.S. March 13, 2019. REUTERS/Joshua Roberts

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States grounded Boeing Co's money-spinning 737 MAX aircraft on Wednesday over safety fears after an Ethiopian Airlines plane crash that killed 157 people, leaving the world's largest planemaker facing its worst crisis in years.

 

The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) cited new satellite data and evidence from the scene of Sunday's crash near Addis Ababa for its decision to join Europe, China and other nations in suspending 737 MAX flights.

 

The crash was the second disaster involving the 737 MAX, the world's most-sold modern passenger aircraft, in less than five months.

 

The new information from the wreckage in Ethiopia and newly refined data about the plane's flight path indicated some similarities between the two disasters "that warrant further investigation of the possibility of a shared cause," the FAA said in a statement.

 

The acting administrator of the FAA, Daniel Elwell, said he did not know how long the U.S. grounding of the aircraft would last. A software fix for the 737 Max that Boeing has been working on since a fatal crash last October in Indonesia will take months to complete, Elwell told reporters.

 

The single-aisle 737 is central to Boeing's future in its battle with European rival Airbus SE. The new variant of the 737, the fastest-selling jetliner in Boeing's history, is viewed as the likely workhorse for global airlines for decades.

 

"The agency made this decision as a result of the data gathering process and new evidence collected at the site and analyzed today," the FAA said, shortly after U.S. President Donald Trump announced the planes would be grounded.

 

It was the second time the FAA has halted flights of a Boeing plane in six years. It grounded the 787 Dreamliner in 2013 because of problems with smoking batteries.

 

Boeing, which maintained that its planes were safe to fly, said in a statement that it supported the latest FAA move.

 

"Boeing has determined - out of an abundance of caution and in order to reassure the flying public of the aircraft’s safety - to recommend to the FAA the temporary suspension of operations of the entire global fleet of 371 737 MAX aircraft."

 

The crash involving a Boeing 737 MAX in Indonesia killed 189 people. Passengers have been spooked by the two disasters. U.S. travel website Kayak was making changes to let customers exclude specific aircraft types from searches, and booking sites were looking to reroute passengers.

 

RE-BOOKING PASSENGERS

U.S. airlines that operate the 737 MAX, Southwest Airlines Co, American Airlines Group Inc and United Airlines, said they were working to re-book passengers. Southwest had 5 MAX-related cancellations on Wednesday and American nearly 40.

 

Southwest is the world's largest operator of the 737 MAX 8 with 34 jets.

 

France's air accident investigation agency BEA will analyze black-box cockpit voice and data recorders from the crashed plane, a spokesman said.

 

The French announcement resolved uncertainty over the fate of the two recorders after Germany's BFU said it had declined a request to handle them because it could not process the new type of recorder used on the 737 MAX jets, in service since 2017.

 

Shares of the Seattle-based company ended up 0.5 percent at $377.14, recovering from a more than 3 percent fall in the afternoon when the FAA announcement was made.

 

The United States had held back on suspending 737 MAX flights on Tuesday even as many of the world's top economies such as China and European nations grounded the plane.

 

Trump called Boeing Chief Executive Dennis Muilenburg on Wednesday to inform him that the United States was preparing to ground the fleet, a White House official said.

 

"I spoke with a number of airlines. And speaking to the airlines, I think that we all agree that this was right decision to make. It didn’t have to be made, but we thought it was the right decision to make," Trump told reporters.

 

The grounding was welcomed by air workers in the United States. John Samuelsen, international president of the Transport Workers Union of America, which represents aviation workers and flight attendants, said the grounding of the fleet was right "both for air travelers and aviation workers."

 

NEW SATELLITE DATA

Canada also grounded 737 MAX jets on Wednesday, saying satellite data suggested similarities to the previous crash involving the same plane model in October.

 

U.S.-based aircraft-tracking firm Aireon provided the satellite data to the FAA, Transport Canada and several other authorities, company spokeswoman Jessie Hillenbrand said.

 

Ethiopian Airlines spokesman Asrat Begashaw said it was still unclear what happened on Sunday, but its pilot had reported control issues as opposed to external factors such as birds.

 

"The pilot reported flight control problems and requested to turn back. In fact he was allowed to turn back," he said.

 

Brazil on Wednesday became the first major Latin American nation to suspend the Boeing 737 MAX, after Panama's Copa Holdings said it would suspend operations of its six Boeing 737 MAX 9 aircraft.

 

The chairman of the U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure, Democrat Peter DeFazio, called for a probe into why the 737 MAX received certification to fly.

 

(Reporting by David Shepardson in Washington, Kumerra Gemechu in Gora-Bokka, Ethiopia, David Ljunggren in Ottawa; Additional reporting by Duncan Miriri and Aaron Maasho in Addis Ababa; Doina Chiacu in Washington, Omar Mohammed and Maggie Fick in Nairobi; Tim Hepher in Paris; Jamie Freed in Singapore; Terje Solsvik in Oslo; Aditi Shah in Mumbai; Sanjana Shivdas in Bengaluru; Aleksandar Vasovic in Belgrade; Julie Gordon in Ottawa; Angela Moon in New York, Eric Johnson in Seattle and Tracy Rucinski in Chicago; Writing by Bill Rigby and Alistair Bell; Editing by Gareth Jones, Nick Zieminski and Grant McCool)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-03-14

[sweatalot]

right and responsible decision now.

It is a shame that the US first tried to not  ground the planes against common sense. 

[zydeco]

1 minute ago, sweatalot said:

right and responsible decision now.

It is a shame that the US first tried to not  ground the planes against common sense. 

It appears Boeing initially called Trump and begged him not to have them grounded. Only when word of this got out did Trump reverse, in obvious embarrassment, and suddenly find "new satellite data." This is as sleazy as can be.

[madmen]

The US is a disgrace for trying to put $$ before lives. Well done trump!

The execs at Airbus are probably still on a 5 day bender 

[Tug]

It’s the right thing to do

[ravip]

1 hour ago, zydeco said:

It appears Boeing initially called Trump and begged him not to have them grounded. Only when word of this got out did Trump reverse, in obvious embarrassment, and suddenly find "new satellite data." This is as sleazy as can be.

 

1 hour ago, madmen said:

The US is a disgrace for trying to put $$ before lives. Well done trump!

The execs at Airbus are probably still on a 5 day bender 

???? $$$ are $$$. Jetski operators or aircraft manufacturers, both are in the same game! So... it happens at the highest levels that are deemed clean.

[Cryingdick]

6 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

certainly the oddest.  Who does that? 

All I have been doing is defending BA and using real life examples. Airbus is back logged for the next ten years. I am just saying BA will get through this very quickly. The doubters say it is doom and gloom. 

 

You can request a new plane at the moment but Airbus doesn't provide and won't be able to provide enough airplanes to make brand preference possible. 

[buick]

i read an article from reuters which referenced eye witness accounts of white smoke coming out of the back of the plane along with falling debris such as papers and clothing.  others reported a 'loud sound', who knows what that could be - a plane overhead is loud to begin with.  i have no experience at all in this area but would something like the software issue somehow result in this type of result - white smoke and debris coming out the back of the plane ?  as a novice on the topic, i assume the plane would just drop from the sky as the pilot could not control it, so no smoke or debris would be present.  and i haven't seen any discussion at all of these eyewitness accounts in the TV media.  i'm just curious and looking forward to the report once the horrible incident has been investigated further.  here is the link, i'm not sure if it is allowed per TV rules (i know some publications cannot be linked).

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ethiopia-airplane-witnesses/ethiopian-plane-smoked-and-shuddered-before-deadly-plunge-idUSKBN1QS1LJ

 

 

[VocalNeal]

2 hours ago, sweatalot said:

right and responsible decision now.

It is a shame that the US first tried to not  ground the planes against common sense. 

The United States can always be relied upon to do the right thing — having first exhausted all possible alternatives.

[colinneil]

23 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

When I buy Boeing it is a sign of confidence and helps them recover. I don't give a crap what you think Boeing is the greatest company in  America. I support them.

A point nobody is mentioning including you is Boeing were building planes in Washington state, there were having serious problems with union labour.Then they built a factory in South Carolina using none union labour.

An undercover video was made in that factory were Boeings own workers were overheard saying i would not fly in a plane built here, i know how they are built, how we cut corners.

[Cryingdick]

1 minute ago, colinneil said:

A point nobody is mentioning including you is Boeing were building planes in Washington state, there were having serious problems with union labour.Then they built a factory in South Carolina using none union labour.

An undercover video was made in that factory were Boeings own workers were overheard saying i would not fly in a plane built here, i know how they are built, how we cut corners.

Okay thanks for pointing that out. 

[madmen]

14 minutes ago, buick said:

i read an article from reuters which referenced eye witness accounts of white smoke coming out of the back of the plane along with falling debris such as papers and clothing.  others reported a 'loud sound', who knows what that could be - a plane overhead is loud to begin with.  i have no experience at all in this area but would something like the software issue somehow result in this type of result - white smoke and debris coming out the back of the plane ?  as a novice on the topic, i assume the plane would just drop from the sky as the pilot could not control it, so no smoke or debris would be present.  and i haven't seen any discussion at all of these eyewitness accounts in the TV media.  i'm just curious and looking forward to the report once the horrible incident has been investigated further.  here is the link, i'm not sure if it is allowed per TV rules (i know some publications cannot be linked).

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ethiopia-airplane-witnesses/ethiopian-plane-smoked-and-shuddered-before-deadly-plunge-idUSKBN1QS1LJ

 

 

Every major jet crash has witnesses reporting these things they saw

 

1. it was on fire

2. it was backfiring (really a jet?) and noise was getting really loud

3. there was white smoke, green smoke, blue smoke

4. luggage was falling out

5. people were falling out

etc etc

witnesses are very unreliable however in this case its possible the plane may have exceeded the never exceed speed due to its high speed in a dive and desperate pilots putting in severe control inputs to try and force the plane out of its death plunge possibly breaking it up  so stuff falling out would make sense

 

 

[lannarebirth]

1 minute ago, colinneil said:

A point nobody is mentioning including you is Boeing were building planes in Washington state, there were having serious problems with union labour.Then they built a factory in South Carolina using none union labour.

An undercover video was made in that factory were Boeings own workers were overheard saying i would not fly in a plane built here, i know how they are built, how we cut corners.

I believe the Boeing 737 is built in Renton, Washington.

[Cryingdick]

5 minutes ago, tlandtday said:

And your source is?  Sounds like more Trump Dergangement Syndrome... get some help.

 

Funny stuff. Most people here don't even know who the CEO of BA is. It's for the most part a bunch of poor nobodies.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeingg

[Rimmer]

More off topic troll posts about how smart I am buying Boeing shares have been removed.

[Basil B]

2 hours ago, Tug said:

It’s the right thing to do

We all know that, I think in the end they realized if there were another crash it would finish Boeing.

[tomacht8]

The chairman of the U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure, Democrat Peter DeFazio, called for a probe into why the 737 MAX received certification to fly.

 

if the center of gravity from this model is wrong and it is too head-heavy and this error can only be corrected by computer trim. What happens if the control computer fails and can not be restarted quickly enough? Then the plane tilts down with its nose. 

 

The explanation of the cause and the safety should come first here.

Personally, I will not get into this type of aircraft.

 

[tomacht8]

3 hours ago, zydeco said:

It appears Boeing initially called Trump and begged him not to have them grounded. Only when word of this got out did Trump reverse, in obvious embarrassment, and suddenly find "new satellite data." This is as sleazy as can be.

Boeing has known the problem for a while.

 

At least four US pilots filed reports following the October crash of a Lion Air flight in Indonesia shortly after takeoff and all complained the aircraft suddenly pitched downward, according to documents reviewed by AFP on a flight safety database.

 

One pilot on a US carrier reported an incident in November 2018, just weeks after the Lion Air crash, saying the plane "pitched nose down" two to three seconds after engaging the autopilot following takeoff, according to the report on the Aviation Safety Reporting System, maintained by NASA.

 

The flight crew reviewed the incident "at length... but can't think of any reason the aircraft would pitch nose-down so aggressively."

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, tlandtday said:

And your source is?  Sounds like more Trump Dergangement Syndrome... get some help.

Here's something from the socialists at Voice of America:

 

US Bucks Calls on Grounding Boeing Max 8 Jetliner

Boeing CEO Dennis Muilenburg reassured Trump in a phone call Tuesday that the aircraft is safe, according to company officials.

White House officials confirm the call occurred but are declining to discuss details of the conversation, which occurred after Trump complained on Twitter that planes "are becoming far too complex to fly."

It is not clear who initiated the call.

https://www.voanews.com/a/us-bucks-calls-on-grounding-boeing-max-8-jetliner-/4826304.html

[Pilotman]

2 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

All I have been doing is defending BA and using real life examples. Airbus is back logged for the next ten years. I am just saying BA will get through this very quickly. The doubters say it is doom and gloom. 

 

You can request a new plane at the moment but Airbus doesn't provide and won't be able to provide enough airplanes to make brand preference possible. 

BA don't have any 737 800s.   Most supplies of aircraft, especially at short notice  do not come from the manufacturers, they come from aviation brokers. 

 

Posting personal information on an open forum is the oddity. 

[stevenl]

9 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

BA don't have any 737 800s.   Most supplies of aircraft, especially at short notice  do not come from the manufacturers, they come from aviation brokers. 

 

Posting personal information on an open forum is the oddity. 

She means Boeing with BA. In a thread about airplanes it makes much more sense to stick to BA for British Airways, but with Dick all about the money, she only thinks of Boeing when she uses BA.

[metisdead]

An additional cleanup has resulted in more removals of replies to previously removed posts.  Some more off topic trolling posts and the replies were removed. 

[rocketman777]

2 hours ago, colinneil said:

A point nobody is mentioning including you is Boeing were building planes in Washington state, there were having serious problems with union labour.Then they built a factory in South Carolina using none union labour.

An undercover video was made in that factory were Boeings own workers were overheard saying i would not fly in a plane built here, i know how they are built, how we cut corners. 

This was an Al Jazira  documentary some years ago and was on the building of the 777 Dreamliner at South Carolina plant.

The 737 MAX is built at Renton

[asiamaster]

5 hours ago, zydeco said:

It appears Boeing initially called Trump and begged him not to have them grounded. Only when word of this got out did Trump reverse, in obvious embarrassment, and suddenly find "new satellite data." This is as sleazy as can be.

BS as Trump already posted the following 2 days ago: Airplanes are becoming far too complex to fly. Pilots are no longer needed, but rather computer scientists from MIT. I see it all the time in many products. Always seeking to go one unnecessary step further, when often old and simpler is far better. Split second decisions areneeded, and the complexity creates danger. All of this for great cost yet very little gain. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want Albert Einstein to be my pilot. I want great flying professionals that are allowed to easily and quickly take control of a plane!

[just bob]

My take on this is Boeing is going to lose more stock value.  The compensation paid to carriers and leasing agencies is going to be very big.  Not sure that this is something that insurers will pick up.  The fact that the automatic anti-stall function was programmed to rely on a single sensor input is absurd.  Five reports of uncommanded nose down events (in the US alone) and two fatal crashes and the fact that they have been working on a software "update"...  Boeing knew their were problems and the victim lawsuits will roll.

 

I predict a new batch of ex Boeing software engineers going digital gonad in Chiang Mai next year.

[Mac98]

I wonder if Boeing designs, engineers, manufactures the avionics? The engines are by Pratt & Whitney?

[Ulic]

4 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

 

Funny stuff. Most people here don't even know who the CEO of BA is. It's for the most part a bunch of poor nobodies.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeingg

I doubt he will be making any jokes about the superiority of Boeing over Air Bus on Bloomberg again any time soon.

[soalbundy]

If it's Boeing I'm not going

[newnative]

3 hours ago, rocketman777 said:

This was an Al Jazira  documentary some years ago and was on the building of the 777 Dreamliner at South Carolina plant.

The 737 MAX is built at Renton

The 787 is the Dreamliner--and having flown Economy in one, I can say it was not a dream.  777 is far roomier--at least with the airlines I have flown.

[ballpoint]

There was an old story regarding Bill Gates and General Motors, along the lines that if the car industry had kept up with technology as fast as the computer industry, we'd all be driving $25 cars that would do 1000 miles to the gallon.  The reply from the GM chairman included the question 'would we really want cars that crashed twice a day for no apparent reason?'  Looks like Boeing is taking up the computer technology challenge.