Northern haze ‘must be on national agenda’

[Genmai]

2 hours ago, piewarmer said:

Today in CM the smoke is even worse, PM2.5 is over 500 at many monitoring stations. 

Hazardous is the highest in the scale starting at 300, they need a new name for our reading...any suggestions?

How about "Deadly"?

[DrTuner]

It is a national agenda, they are burning fields all over the country. No worries, everybody will get some.

[Odysseus123]

Haze?

Smokey?

What a farce..this is what misty rain looks like..

 

 

 

[kekalot]

here three pictures from the same vantage point (2nd one has a black curved line where mountain should be)

 

first picture around 40 AQI

 

second picture about a month later near 400 AQI

 

bonus: picture on 400+ AQI looking straight at sun in morning

 

don't ask me how it looks at over 500 AQI because I left already ????

[boonrawdcnx]

Not sure why people here talk about farmers ?
In the North we are in the middle of the rice growing season the fields are all green!
The fields have been burned about 2 months ago without much impact .
It is the greedy, selfish people up in the mountains who set entire mountain ranges on fire to later get to certain mushrooms and certain vegetables.
They are doing this on purpose and are well aware that what the are doing is wrong and illegal.
A Thai friend explained to me that they have even developed fire starters that will burn down slow and start the forrest fires when they are not around to avoid being caught by the authorities.
These are the same people who in collusion with certain corrupt officials and the little men in green are responsible for Thailand’s massive deforestation over the last 70 years.





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[Odysseus123]

1 minute ago, kekalot said:

here three pictures from the same vantage point (2nd one has a black curved line where mountain should be)

 

first picture around 40 AQI

 

second picture about a month later near 400 AQI

 

bonus: picture on 400+ AQI looking straight at sun in morning

 

don't ask me how it looks at over 500 AQI because I left already ????

Great photos.Well done.

[Samuel Smith]

6 minutes ago, boonrawdcnx said:

Not sure why people here talk about farmers ?
In the North we are in the middle of the rice growing season the fields are all green!
The fields have been burned about 2 months ago without much impact .
It is the greedy, selfish people up in the mountains who set entire mountain ranges on fire to later get to certain mushrooms and certain vegetables.
They are doing this on purpose and are well aware that what the are doing is wrong and illegal.
A Thai friend explained to me that they have even developed fire starters that will burn down slow and start the forrest fires when they are not around to avoid being caught by the authorities.
These are the same people who in collusion with certain corrupt officials and the little men in green are responsible for Thailand’s massive deforestation over the last 70 years.





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+1

 

And everyone needs to boycott this shit

[canopy]

1 hour ago, boonrawdcnx said:

Not sure why people here talk about farmers ?
In the North we are in the middle of the rice growing season the fields are all green!

In a lot of places farmers are indeed burning empty fields right now. There is no water available to many of them so a crop this time of year is not possible. Some wait until the peak of the dry season like now to burn the fields because they burn easiest. But I agree with you there are also a lot of fires deliberately being set in the forests. Some of these fires are even set by the forestry people themselves in what they call "fuel management". The picture of what is causing all the pollution is somewhat complex. It's sort of like examining a landfill; lots of different things in there to one extent or another all contributing to pollution. I wonder how significant a role the millions of plastic / household rubbish fires set daily in the north are having in this.

 

[jak2002003]

6 hours ago, Prissana Pescud said:

You have it wrong. You can only plough a field with buffalo when the ground is saturated with water.

And that means waiting for the rain season. And poor farmers cannot wait. They prepare the fields by burning.

And how many farmers do you see that own cattle or buffalo. You are out of date by decades. 

Hmm.... what about..... flood the fields to wet the soil, then plough it in and then plant the rice? lol.  

 

Anyway, they can use the tractors if you want to be more 'up to date', rent or buy one.  I fail to see your argument here.  The buffalos are cheaper than a tractor, can breed them, sell the surplus for good money and also get free meat to feed themselves.  Free fertilizer too from the dung. 

 

Fact is they some farmers are just lazy, and don't care about the environment and don't care about their own, or their families health either. They don't care about the police or fines because  these are virtually never enforced.. so no reason to stop this burning.

 

I know a few good farmers around here that work the fields correctly and efficiently and they make more money and are more successful than the ones that sit about drinking and gambling, and burning the fields so they can sleep all day.   But the good ones have to work hard for their well earned money... .perhaps some can't be bothered and would just prefer to have fun setting fire to things and making their neighbours sick or die.

[jak2002003]

12 hours ago, canopy said:

Burning is a new practice that came with chemical farming. In the old days the buffalo would plow the stalks back into the soil for enrichment. EVERYTHING was organic! In today's modern chemical system the stalks are just a waste product and burned. Also in paddy farming back before our generation crabs and snake head fish were released for pest control and at harvest provided a good food source. Now pest control is done by poisons.

 

It's as if you are implying farmers are forced to burn or would be worse off if they didn't do it. This is not true. Burning is bad for farming. It depletes the soil and creates erosion of top soil. But nobody cares about that. They just add more chemical fertilizers which makes them more poor. Farmers burn because they enjoy it. Some people think there must be some deeper justification, but there isn't. Just like there is no reason to make motorcycles loud, but everyone just does it anyway. It's just a thing everyone gets enjoyment from. Who cares if it is illegal and health issue. Nobody cares.

 

Great post and I agree with you about everything you said!  

 

I am sick of people saying this is what they have always done / its tradition, etc.  Its not even a lack of education or ignorance... they know what they are doing when they burn the fields, plastic waste, forests, and kill protected animals, pollute the waterways with chemicals, etc.  They don't have to do these things because they are poor... but by doing these things they are going to make themselves poorer from degrading they farmland and natural resources, and from the illness they or they family will get... and not be able to work at all.

[Dinobot]

For a country so concerned with saving face and appearances, I can’t think of a greater or more visually prominent disgrace than its own skies right now.

[toenail]

So.... the government is all words but no action to fine or throw the farmer in jail because “politicians” are afraid to upset the voters in the coming election? ????????????????

[Curt1591]

National agenda du jour ....

[Redline]

On 3/15/2019 at 5:22 AM, Thailand said:

It's not haze it is a choking smog of epic proportions!

It’s not dust either, as they often refer 

[Puwa]

The increase in the last 10-15 years comes from contract farming of corn for animal feed and ethanol. 

 

http://www.jittraponkaicome.com/smoke-crisis

 

http://smokethedocumentary.com

 

 

[mikebell]

The annual death rate from respiratory diseases must dwarf the daily death rate on the roads.  Why would any tourist come to Thailand?

 

It's all about enforcement.  Nothing will change the above killers until Thailand gets a police force.

[DLock]

I have lived in CM for 12 years.

 

Sure, this happens every year, and maybe it has been as bad in past years, but the amount of AQI sensors have really highlighted the problem. In the past it was just something I put up with. I can't ride my bikes or do anything outside...and inside is no better. Never considered that Bangkok would be a healthier and cleaner option.

 

I would never live in Bangladesh or Beijing, so I am questioning why I would continue to live in Chiang Mai.

 

Beyond controlling errant fire starters (RIP Keith) I don't know what the powers at be can do. Hiding and waiting for rain and wind is probably their limits.

 

This will probably be my last year here full time. I can't rationalize this any longer. I feel like I am living in a toxic wasteland.

 

I hope tourists stop coming here and it hits the airlines, hotels and tour operators hard - and that their collective voice can achieve something....but...precedence suggests they won't.

 

Good bye Chiang mai...it was you...not me.

[bheard]

Obviously a multi faceted problem, one those being to do with govt energy policy. Solar panels in a smog situation produce NO power.

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[Date Masamune]

33 minutes ago, bheard said:

Obviously a multi faceted problem, one those being to do with govt energy policy. Solar panels in a smog situation produce NO power.

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You don't know much about solar panels. No political will here Thailand has an Army why won't they use it? Whose field is this burning here? Drag in the owner jail one year and confiscation of land. Also the relocation of hundreds of Northern Hill villages to other areas needs to be considered they have proven to be incapable of proper stewardship of the lands.

[CGW]

21 minutes ago, Date Masamune said:

Drag in the owner jail one year and confiscation of land. Also the relocation of hundreds of Northern Hill villages to other areas needs to be considered they have proven to be incapable of proper stewardship of the lands.

I believe you are applying logic from your home country here! different set of rules, there is no functioning Police force here, NOBODY has been prosecuted or jailed for burning, does that not tell you that your rules are not going to work! 

[toenail]

I have lived in CM for 12 years.
 
Sure, this happens every year, and maybe it has been as bad in past years, but the amount of AQI sensors have really highlighted the problem. In the past it was just something I put up with. I can't ride my bikes or do anything outside...and inside is no better. Never considered that Bangkok would be a healthier and cleaner option.
 
I would never live in Bangladesh or Beijing, so I am questioning why I would continue to live in Chiang Mai.
 
Beyond controlling errant fire starters (RIP Keith) I don't know what the powers at be can do. Hiding and waiting for rain and wind is probably their limits.
 
This will probably be my last year here full time. I can't rationalize this any longer. I feel like I am living in a toxic wasteland.
 
I hope tourists stop coming here and it hits the airlines, hotels and tour operators hard - and that their collective voice can achieve something....but...precedence suggests they won't.
 
Good bye Chiang mai...it was you...not me.

People from China, India, & other countries with same air quality will continue to visit CM.


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[Date Masamune]

I believe you are applying logic from your home country here! different set of rules, there is no functioning Police force here, NOBODY has been prosecuted or jailed for burning, does that not tell you that your rules are not going to work! 

Nobody prosecuted. And yet a French woman was jailed and eventually deported for puffing on an ecig something not even clearly illegal. What is the greater crime? I feel sorry for friends and other people who can’t leave I have been gone from CM more than one month and won’t be coming back very soon. Bth the way, Why is it seeming to be getting WORSE and worse every year?


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[Silom123]

Offer a 1,000 Baht reward to anybody with evidence or video of fires being started. Then fine the offenders 2,000 Baht. The system would pay for itself plus a bit over for the BIB for their troubles.

[CGW]

22 minutes ago, Date Masamune said:

Why is it seeming to be getting WORSE and worse every year?

One of the reasons for sure is the government - in their wisdom encourage & pay people to grow sugar cane, believe the crop increased by ~30% in the past year.

[Vacuum]

1 hour ago, toenail said:

People from China, India, & other countries with same air quality will continue to visit CM.

Can't see the point in doing that. Due to the smog/haze, they can't see the the mountains or the scenery around CM. So unless they come for feeding the pigeons or visit a temple, they'd be better off staying away.

[DrTuner]

2 minutes ago, Vacuum said:

Can't see the point in doing that. Due to the smog/haze, they can't see the the mountains or the scenery around CM. So unless they come for feeding the pigeons or visit a temple, they'd be better off staying away.

First time tourists on a cheap tour trip being fed pretty pictures of Thailand 20 years ago. They won't bother coming back.

[toenail]

Can't see the point in doing that. Due to the smog/haze, they can't see the the mountains or the scenery around CM. So unless they come for feeding the pigeons or visit a temple, they'd be better off staying away.

Like all of us tourists, we all have been “conned” into seeing those photo-shopped photos or images of tourists spots with clear skies and no crowds. Thank goodness for internet sites such as Travel Advisor that dies post photos and comments from “real” travelers.


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[Prissana Pescud]

On 3/15/2019 at 6:56 AM, canopy said:

Burning is a new practice that came with chemical farming. In the old days the buffalo would plow the stalks back into the soil for enrichment. EVERYTHING was organic! In today's modern chemical system the stalks are just a waste product and burned. Also in paddy farming back before our generation crabs and snake head fish were released for pest control and at harvest provided a good food source. Now pest control is done by poisons.

 

It's as if you are implying farmers are forced to burn or would be worse off if they didn't do it. This is not true. Burning is bad for farming. It depletes the soil and creates erosion of top soil. But nobody cares about that. They just add more chemical fertilizers which makes them more poor. Farmers burn because they enjoy it. Some people think there must be some deeper justification, but there isn't. Just like there is no reason to make motorcycles loud, but everyone just does it anyway. It's just a thing everyone gets enjoyment from. Who cares if it is illegal and health issue. Nobody cares.

 

Lets review your post because it is mostly idealic and not totally factual.

"Back in the old days), they did not have the population and the demands that Global Economics enforces on every agrarian culture.

These days, small plot farmers can not afford to only grow food for their own family.

They have to have extra to pay for electricity and the high cost of alternate food other than rice.

It is nowhere near as simple as you portray it.

So, depletion of top soil. No the topsoil is mostly clay based and does not erode. Burning removes the weeds that contaminate the

paddies. This makes basic non poison weed control easy.

Total flooding of the paddies during the wet season allows microbe regeneration.

Then you go on about pyromaniac people who love burning. This be your impression but it is not true.

All sugar cane farmers in every country burn the cane. I am sorry, your post is not real or a change from what has always happened.

For instance, have you ever tried to plow a field before the rainy season with a buffalo plow. Idealistic nonsense. 

[Prissana Pescud]

On 3/15/2019 at 2:30 PM, Odysseus123 said:

"smokey" eh?Another deluded real estate agent in Chiang Mai trying to flog condos.

yeah mate. There is no doubt that a second home is required anywhere but Asia during Jan to March, the burning hot and humid season.

It will take a sensible democratic and rural sympathy group of politicians to implement change.

And my last line is total rubbish in Thailand, coz it not going to happen in our life times.

[Odysseus123]

Just now, Prissana Pescud said:

yeah mate. There is no doubt that a second home is required anywhere but Asia during Jan to March, the burning hot and humid season.

It will take a sensible democratic and rural sympathy group of politicians to implement change.

And my last line is total rubbish in Thailand, coz it not going to happen in our life times.

True.

 

It was either this or this..nothing ever seemed to change.

 

That's the sun by the way..