Just got a VOID stamp on my new tourist visa , help?

[Fixit89]

Thank you Brit Tim ! I am going to skip getting a new visa , pack my stuff in my apartment and head home . It’s a sad ending . I’ll spend my last songkran here and say my goodbyes. Asta la vista  . With that void in my visa do you think that is in “the system” ? And will be looked upon ? When I enter ?

cheers 

[BritManToo]

7 minutes ago, Fixit89 said:

Thank you Brit Tim ! I am going to skip getting a new visa , pack my stuff in my apartment and head home . It’s a sad ending . I’ll spend my last songkran here and say my goodbyes. Asta la vista  . With that void in my visa do you think that is in “the system” ? And will be looked upon ? When I enter ?

cheers 

Why not head to Cambodia or Vietnam?

[travelerjim]

17 hours ago, Fixit89 said:

True . Thank you. And How unfortunate .

 

Any other land crossings aside from Nong Khai / Laos ? 

 

Would getting a new passport reset reset everything for me ? I’m willing to get a new one just so I can fly back in . Waiting for some experts to reply back. Thank you all 

No...getting a new passport does not reset your history of entries to Thailand. Thai Immigration has computerized records. Even having a valid Tourist or Ed visa in your passport is no guarantee you will be allowed entry into Thailand. The Thai Immigration Officer sees your past history upon arrival. Its their decision to allow entry or not.

[BritTim]

50 minutes ago, Fixit89 said:

Thank you Brit Tim ! I am going to skip getting a new visa , pack my stuff in my apartment and head home . It’s a sad ending . I’ll spend my last songkran here and say my goodbyes. Asta la vista  . With that void in my visa do you think that is in “the system” ? And will be looked upon ? When I enter ?

cheers 

As long as you do not use the wrong entry points, neither the voided visa nor your history of stay in Thailand will prevent getting a visa exempt entry entering by land. The voided visa is not noted in any online system. Once you have a new passport in the future, there will be no residual evidence that it ever happened.

[BritTim]

16 hours ago, buick said:

i'd just keep the passport for now.  fly SGN to KUL and take train to thai border and then fly from hat yai to dmk (domestic so no passport checks).  SGN-KUL is cheap one way and they have non stops (air asia, vietnam airlines, viet jet, malaysian airlines).  i don't think you can do a nonstop SGN to VTE. 

I have another idea for you. There is a direct flight from Ho Chi Minh City to Pakse in Laos. You can go from Pakse to the border at Chong Mek, crossing and making your way to Ubon airport. This is going to be a quicker trip than going all the way to Kuala Lumpur.

 

You do not need a new passport to cross at Chong Mek for a visa exempt entry.

[jmd8800]

Just now, BritTim said:

I have another idea for you. There is a direct flight from Ho Chi Minh City to Pakse in Laos. You can go from Pakse to the border at Chong Mek, crossing and making your way to Ubon airport. This is going to be a quicker trip than going all the way to Kuala Lumpur.

 

You do not need a new passport to cross at Chong Mek for a visa exempt entry.

OP.... take one of these suggestions and sort your stuff out when you get here. It is best you know how Thai Imm thinks and then you can proceed.

 

Good luck. There are plenty of ways for people to stay in Thailand if they so desire.

[Fixit89]

18 minutes ago, BritTim said:

As long as you do not use the wrong entry points, neither the voided visa nor your history of stay in Thailand will prevent getting a visa exempt entry entering by land. The voided visa is not noted in any online system. Once you have a new passport in the future, there will be no residual evidence that it ever happened.

BritTim! Behind your posts there is obviously a background and wealth of information. Thank you very much! In my mind it wouldn’t make any sense that the voided visa would be in any online system. Due to the fact that it was probably voided at last minute. Void means cancelled/not approved , not “your not allowed into Thailand.” If I did go to the airport yes that would be my point where they would say “ hey you got a voided visa we don’t want you!” But I never made it to that point .. thanks to you guys here at TV! I think people are misconstrued in their ideations here. 

 

Im looking at Cambodia because currently as you noted no direct flights from hchm to Vientiane. So I might as well take a long vacation somewhere first 

 

I never thought about pakse , I used to go out with a girl from there . Although that time has long passed. Maybe I should make a trip out there!

seeems like a good land border as you noted (thanks again) 

 

[BritManToo]

7 minutes ago, Fixit89 said:

Im looking at Cambodia because currently as you noted no direct flights from hchm to Vientiane. So I might as well take a long vacation somewhere first

There's a bus ftom HCMC to Phnom Penh, 350bht.

Then a bus to Sieam Reap $7.

Then a bus to Vientienne.

 

I'm doing it next month with a week in each place, no rush to get back to Thailand.

Edited March 16, 2019 by BritManToo

[Ctkong]

18 hours ago, onera1961 said:

How rude. They take the money and deny visa. If OP does not have any connection with Thailand like GF or child, it is better to forget about Thailand and spend money where there are no issues. I made a mistake 14 years ago and stuck here but I plan to spend only 6-months in Thailand. 

The visa fees are fees for processing the visa regardless whether it is successful or not. However the consulate can do a better job by vetting the passport for obvious visa rejection before processing the visa. Once passport is accepted for processing, most applicants would obviously think that their visas were approved and the passport accepted for visa stickers to be printed and attached. 

[Ctkong]

13 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

This is bit off topic, but..

To quote elviajero above "toleration of practice is clearly ending"....

I just returned home tonight from popular night life area Ratchada bkk. Market/bars etc. Few years ago there were very few Chinese and Korean tourists. How times have changed. Also to add I have read (not Thaivisa) that Thai imm expect next BOOM to be be from India and Chinese tourist growth to continue. IMHO Thai do not need/want long term tourists living in los.

They want rich long term tourists who spent loads of money and not those on retirement visas living barely on the fringe of existence. Altruism is not a strong word in their vocabulary.

[DrJack54]

17 minutes ago, Ctkong said:

They want rich long term tourists who spent loads of money and not those on retirement visas living barely on the fringe of existence. Altruism is not a strong word in their vocabulary.

Personally, I live here on extension based on retirement and spend 60k aud every year. Is that enough?

[Fixit89]

Oddly enough I spend loads of money in thailand as I have a successful business in the USA . But how could the visa office know that? unless I showed them my business bank account attached to my my name and not personal account and an emloyment letter of our enterprise stating what I do. It’s a darn shame if you ask me

wish I gave them my employment letter I wonder what difference it would have made ! I always keep that with me even when I had my METV for cases like being questioned at the airport.  I always keep 20,000b on me , that’s not much for me to carry around anyways.

 

have a nice Saturday everyone , thank you again

[Sheryl]

1 minute ago, Fixit89 said:

Oddly enough I spend loads of money in thailand as I have a successful business in the USA . But how could the visa office know that? unless I showed them my business bank account attached to my my name and not personal account and an emloyment letter of our enterprise stating what I do. It’s a darn shame if you ask me

wish I gave them my employment letter I wonder what difference it would have made ! I always keep that with me even when I had my METV for cases like being questioned at the airport.  I always keep 20,000b on me , that’s not much for me to carry around anyways.

 

have a nice Saturday everyone , thank you again

 

If you are well off then why not get an Elita Visa? Problem solved.  It is designed for well off people under 50 who can afford to spend a lot of time in Thailand.

 

 

[JackThompson]

15 hours ago, pr9spk said:

Thailand doesn't want people 'living' in the country on tourist visas, because they are not tourists and are abusing the system.

If it was "abuse" it would be specified as illegal in the law.  Thailand welcomed people spending lots of money here over and over on tourist-entries for decades.  That's called precedent.  A change to that policy would require an official published change to the law (Immigration Act) which specifies the only reasons a person can be denied-entry.

 

Recently, some subset-clique of IOs decided to throw their own fellow-citizens under the bus by preventing self-funded foreigners from coming repeatedly and supporting locals with their spending.

 

15 hours ago, pr9spk said:

Which is exactly what the OP is doing, and precisely why they feel the need to keep tightening the regulations.

They haven't tightened any "regulations" at all.  Some IOs simply began breaking the law - pushing their own completely unregulated (illegal) agenda - and getting away with it.

 

15 hours ago, pr9spk said:

If you manage to wangle your way back in via a land crossing, consider yourself lucky, but don't bank on it working next time - you definitely need a longer term option, particularly if you have assets/family/girlfriend in Thailand.

For now, all the Land-Crossings but one (Poipet/Aranyaprathet) Follow The Law - which is why we do not have reports of illegal denials of entry at them. 

 

I do agree it is dangerous to make plans to remain long-term in a country where there is no functional Rule Of Law in effect.  Definitely NOT a place to make any sort of investment, put significant money in the bank, etc. 

Even with a "more accepted for now" visa/extension option, it is still risky.  Immigration is attacking all types of foreigners with "crackdowns" and "unpublished requirements" - Retired, Married to a Thai, etc.

[JackThompson]

16 hours ago, Fixit89 said:

He states that I should get a new passport , and with a new passport I could get a new SETV. Would this be feasible ?

Yes, because the Thai Consulates only use the Visa-History shown in your passport - not immigration records.

 

16 hours ago, Fixit89 said:

Does the IO really have info that will scrutizinize me from further entry from an air border with a new passport ? I find that highly u likely . Even if it was just visa exempts ? 

Yes - they have a full-record of all your entries/exits at their fingertips.  They might be less likely to look into your history with a new passport, but there are also "warnings" that pop up to alert them to a potential easy-victim to throw into their for-profit airport-gulag - such as if you have 6+ Visa Exempts since 2015 (and who knows what others).

 

In general, entering Visa Exempt by air more dangerous than entering with a Tourist Visa by air - but at this point, I am not sure it matters as much, given they may not even go through a mock "procedure" of pretending to determine if you are within a specified category (as defined in the Immigration Act) for which one could be legally refused-entry.

 

16 hours ago, Fixit89 said:

The unfortunate thing is that I would need to leave around or before songkran time after my 30 days is expired. I went to hcmc to get my visa because I avoid extensions like the plague . Changwattana is dreadful for me especially after this many years. 

Extensions are generally not a problem.  Very few have reported problems getting extensions - and only at a few offices.

 

16 hours ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

All of the cases I've seen have been in DMK. Do you have any examples from BKK? (I hope not - I'm coming in through there next week!)

There have been many refused entry at BKK, also.  Maybe they do a little procedural shuffle first vs DMK's "straight to the gulag" routine - and maybe you could somehow get through by saying the "right things." 

 

Who knows?  Bangkok airport-immigration might as well be in Somalia, where they don't bother to pretend to have "laws in effect" governed via legal procedures.

[JackThompson]

14 hours ago, pr9spk said:

Official policy is that tourist visas are for tourists.

Please cite where legal-limits on "How long you can be a Tourist in Thailand" is defined.  As is, it is only defined by being self-funded.  No one seems to know any official limit, including the IOs who have been reported spouting random, varying things.  They cannot even get their illegal-lying reason for denying entry straight.

 

14 hours ago, pr9spk said:

People getting back to back TVs are clearly NOT tourists and Thailand is quite right in refusing them.

Refusing them based on legal past-visiting history is not "right" - it is "illegal."

 

14 hours ago, pr9spk said:

wants to slob around Thailand doing nothing for years on end, then you are shit out of luck.

Why do you think anyone here using a Tourist Visa (probably due to being under 50) is "slobbing around"?   That sounds like propaganda - something those paying off the corrupt IOs to break the law would say, as an attempt to create a false-justification their criminal behavior.

 

14 hours ago, pr9spk said:

The tourist visa is 60 days plus a potential 30 day extension, that is plenty of time to see the sights of Thailand,

Where does Thai law state that "seeing the sights of Thailand" is the only thing a Tourist can do here? 

 

14 hours ago, pr9spk said:

any moron can see that the subject is doing more than tourism

Such as what?  And what problem does this create for whom? 

 

Any moron can read the Immigration Act and tell the IOs refusing entry to people entering with Tourist Visas based on "too much time here before" are breaking the law.

 

14 hours ago, pr9spk said:

Just because you come from a first-world country, that does not mean that you can circumvent the rules and regulations of a less-developed country

They aren't.  It is the Thai IOs at lawless entry points who are circumventing the rules and regulations (i.e. directly violating the law).

 

14 hours ago, pr9spk said:

If you don't have that kind of money and can't meet the requirements of one of the longer-term Thai visas, you'd be much better off going somewhere else!

For once we agree.  Because Thailand's immigration system has become a cesspool of lawless corruption, many people (not just those using Tourist entries) may have to go somewhere else.  Sure, some can buy off the authorities for now - but can you trust known-lawbreakers or a system that allows them to flourish to keep their word?  No way!! 

[JackThompson]

15 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Try doing 3 or 4 turn a rounds back to back to eg Vietnam

Many do this all the time - no reports of problems.  Only Thailand and a few oddballs are so corrupt or xenophobic, that they screw their own people out of income, by refusing-entry to self-funded foreign visitors with money to spend.

 

15 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Sorry that won't work. Back to back METV,s are also having problems with Thai imm. The METV was never designed for what you suggest.

The METV allows unlimited 60-day entries until it expires.  Each of those entries may be extended at immigration's discretion.  We didn't write these rules for that visa - Thai authorities did.  Do you think they wrote one set of rules, but "really meant" something else? 

 

The problems some report with illegal denials of entry at lawless entry-points has nothing to do with the "design" of the METV, other than the lawbreaking IOs don't like the way the Thai Officials designed it.

 

14 hours ago, stud858 said:

My home embassy replied no such restrictions when I quizzed them on my multiple visas and long stays in Thailand.

They were stating what the law says.

 

14 hours ago, stud858 said:

It is up to IO though.

Only because they are allowed to violate the law, due to no system of oversight to ensure consistent rule-of-law across the country.

 

14 hours ago, fforest1 said:

Its easy to be smug when your over 50....

Not really, anymore.  Now, you need to be over 50 and with money to burn on agents, or chunks of money to leave unusable in a bank account,  ...

 

14 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Personally if I was under 50 and wanted to live in Thailand, I would obtain elite visa.

... or money to blow on their "pay us 10x what other nations in the region charge for visas with 5+ years up front," solution.

 

[JackThompson]

The treaties and such you mention have nothing to do with Thailand.  Note that Thailand does not sign onto many UN "obligations" (and wisely so). 

 

14 hours ago, jmd8800 said:

Thailand has been bringing its immigration policies in line with the rest of the developed world in the last few years. It is in their best interest to do this.

A nation with wages significantly lower than where visitors are coming from has no interest in stopping those visitors from spending their foreign-sourced income in the country.

 

14 hours ago, jmd8800 said:

As long as Thailand is seen as a hideout for criminals and ne'er do wells than Thailand will always be seen as a third world country.

A "third world country" (or "first world") is defined primarily by the wage-levels / income of it's working/lower class.  Stopping self-funded higher-wage nation tourists can only depress Thai wages. 

 

The second way "Third World" is defined, is by the absence of "Rule of Law" - which is definitely the case with Thai immigration, and only getting worse.  Every so-called "crackdown" on some sort of corruption or "abuse" is cynically-used as a smoke-screen cover to increase the corruption payoffs they receive.

Being a "hideout for criminals" has exactly nothing to do with repeat Tourist visa entries by people coming from higher-wage nations.  A tourist can stay a max of 90-days before subjecting themselves to immigration (again).  Interpol and such can help with that - not blocking tourists from entry, who if criminals, could be identified and arrested on the spot.

 

14 hours ago, jmd8800 said:

Having said that, Thailand has a long long way to go to rid itself of its various reputations.... corruption and sex trade being a couple.

The "sex trade" in Thailand primarily serves the citizen-population.  But to the extent that it serves foreigners (famously), those foreigners are primarily short-stay occasional tourists who have no problems at all with immigration.  Those foreigners are also the ones who are "on a tear" when here on vacation - usually drunk, more likely to cause problems, etc.

The 2nd largest group of patrons (though much smaller) would be wealthier longer-stay foreigners (who can afford that sort of "entertainment" on a regular basis), who also have no problems dealing with immigration.

 

14 hours ago, jmd8800 said:

I would not have a kid so that I could stay here.  That is a horrible idea. 

Agree 100%.  Getting married "for a visa" is also a bad idea.  Getting married to someone you love to stay together is OK, but I recommend a long trial-period - especially given the cultural learning-curve.

[JackThompson]

14 hours ago, pr9spk said:

trying pulling the same crap in Canada and see how far you get.

Where wages are many times higher hence need to be protected by limiting immigration by the world's poor - and tourism is not a key employer to a large percentage of the population?

 

Why not try the same "crap" (i.e. spending foreign-sourced money over a long period of time) in Vietnam, Cambodia, The Philippines, or almost every country in Latin America?  They will welcome you with open arms.

 

14 hours ago, pr9spk said:

Using repeated tourist visas to effectively 'live' in the country is abusing the visa system

If that were true, surely the Immigration Act would spell it out in black and white.  But it doesn't, because Thailand has welcomed (not "tolerated") repeat tourists here for decades - because it was, and is, good for their citizens and economy and does no harm.

[mikebike]

2 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Where wages are many times higher hence need to be protected by limiting immigration by the world's poor

Apparently you missed the fact that Thailand's wages are a draw to Burmese, Cambodians, and Loasians...

[moontang]

The US gladly takes 5000 THB from visa applicants without any intention of granting them to 90%+ of applicants.  Probably how LOS got the idea....also likely how they got the idea to be dicks at immigration and the embassies.  But, yeah, very tough on visa runners nowadays.  I used to live here half the year with hardly any effort at all. A double entry TV, and a few enjoyable trips to Maesai, with very pleasant IOs. Now, at 55 it is pretty easy to live here, but if I was under 50, I would not deal with the current maze..the writing is on the wall.  Seen way too many get caught gaming the system, and screaming bloody murder, when they get caught.  

Edited March 16, 2019 by moontang

[JackThompson]

13 minutes ago, mikebike said:

Apparently you missed the fact that Thailand's wages are a draw to Burmese, Cambodians, and Loasians...

Not at all.  Also India, China, and others.  I can understand scrutiny of people coming to Thailand from countries where there is a wage-differential favoring Thai wage-levels. 

 

But, Thai authorities have created special visas just to allow those to flood in, and no "2x land-border" rule for them, either.  This undermines their "worried about illegal workers" angle - not that it ever applied in the case of those from higher-wage nations. 

 

Official policy puts a dagger in the heart of working-class Thai's wages and job-opportunities, while the spending of foreign-funded visitors - whom Thai Immigration is blocking from entry - does the opposite.

[JackThompson]

12 minutes ago, moontang said:

caught gaming the system, and screaming bloody murder, when they get caught.  

As far as I have heard, those "gaming the system" - and in huge numbers - are using Immigration's Agent-Partners to get extensions of stay they do not qualify to receive.  They are not having issues other than a fee-increase, incurred under cover of the last so-called "crackdown" (how they always increase their corruption-money loot - same as they did with the so-called "ED Visa" crackdown).  The big agents are still in business, and their IO-Buddies driving even nicer cars - of that we can be sure.

 

But on this thread, we were not talking about the "gamers" that immigration loves, but rather, people entering the country legally as Tourists, for which immigration does not have a reliable angle to extort corruption-money.  It's easy to see why immigration would hate such people.

[elviajero]

47 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

As far as I have heard, those "gaming the system" - and in huge numbers - are using Immigration's Agent-Partners to get extensions of stay they do not qualify to receive.  They are not having issues other than a fee-increase, incurred under cover of the last so-called "crackdown" (how they always increase their corruption-money loot - same as they did with the so-called "ED Visa" crackdown).  The big agents are still in business, and their IO-Buddies driving even nicer cars - of that we can be sure.

 

But on this thread, we were not talking about the "gamers" that immigration loves, but rather, people entering the country legally as Tourists, for which immigration does not have a reliable angle to extort corruption-money.  It's easy to see why immigration would hate such people.

They can't extort from long term so-called tourists so they deny a few of them entry!!!!!!!!!!!!!? Genius.

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

15 hours ago, pr9spk said:

Using repeated tourist visas to effectively 'live' in the country is abusing the visa system

If that were true, surely the Immigration Act would spell it out in black and white.  But it doesn't, because Thailand has welcomed (not "tolerated") repeat tourists here for decades - because it was, and is, good for their citizens and economy and does no harm.

It was written 40 years ago when they almost certainly did not consider the possibility of foreigners staying months/years as tourists.

 

They have always "welcomed" "repeat tourists" but they are not the issue. It is those tourists staying months/years that they have - for at least 13 years - been actively stopping.

 

Long term tourists were tolerated for years, but as the numbers grew the toleration reduced. Immigration policy is not just about the countries financial gain; numbers and reason for the visit are as important. Thailand, just like many other countries, want tourists to visit for a holiday and go home. They will allow other visitors to stay long term that meet certain criteria. Tourists do not meet that criteria.

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

18 hours ago, pr9spk said:

Thailand doesn't want people 'living' in the country on tourist visas, because they are not tourists and are abusing the system.

If it was "abuse" it would be specified as illegal in the law.  Thailand welcomed people spending lots of money here over and over on tourist-entries for decades.  That's called precedent.  A change to that policy would require an official published change to the law (Immigration Act) which specifies the only reasons a person can be denied-entry.

 

Recently, some subset-clique of IOs decided to throw their own fellow-citizens under the bus by preventing self-funded foreigners from coming repeatedly and supporting locals with their spending.

Abusing a system doesn't mean you're breaking a law. The TIB's policy is to lawfully give IO's the discretionary power to deny entry to long term tourists.

 

Even if they formally announced a specific limit the law would not need changing. A simple regulation is all that's needed. However, because all long term tourists almost certainly qualify for denial under 12 (2), or (3), or (9), they don't have to.

 

"subset-clique of IO's ... ". LMAO

 

Edited March 16, 2019 by elviajero

[jmd8800]

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

Abusing a system doesn't mean you're breaking a law. The TIB's policy is to lawfully give IO's the discretionary power to deny entry to long term tourists.

 

Even if they formally announced a specific limit the law would not need changing. A simple regulation is all that's needed. However, because all long term tourists almost certainly qualify for denial under 12 (2), or (3), or (9), they don't have to.

 

"subset-clique of IO's ... ". LMAO

 

This is a good post. Who is or is not abusing the system is left up to Immigration IOs for a reason. There are no concrete ways to measure who is and who is not abusing the system. So it is up to an IO to determine if it is necessary to look deeper or ban outright. This screening is done on the fly. Once when returning to the USA I was asked more than the normal amount of questions at CBP desk. Lastly I was asked if I had lost weight. I had lost 13kg since the picture was taken. He was doing his job.

 

This is the same as the USA does. USA issues a 10 year tourist visa and the holder can stay up to 6 months at a time. They must exit and come back. However I have read, and a friend of mine was warned by USA CBP, if you exit for a few days and come back too many times they deny you entry. There are no hard and fast rules for this in the USA.... just like Thailand.

 

I'm pretty sure USA doesn't have a "subset-clique of IO's ... ". But I could be wrong.

[BritManToo]

5 hours ago, Ctkong said:

They want rich long term tourists who spent loads of money and not those on retirement visas living barely on the fringe of existence.

How can they tell which you are at a border checkpoint?

[BritManToo]

3 hours ago, JackThompson said:

... or money to blow on their "pay us 10x what other nations in the region charge for visas with 5+ years up front," solution

Not likely seeing as the Thai police can cancel it at any time with no effort at due process.

Then add 'overstay' to your list of alleged crimes.

[BritManToo]

18 hours ago, jmd8800 said:

I would not have a kid so that I could stay here.  That is a horrible idea.

It's also ineffective, as I have a kid here, and am facing increasing problems in staying.

I'm here on back-to-back 90-day non-o VISAs as the extensions are even worse than marriage extensions.

 

If I'd fathered a Viet, Flip or Khmer kid I would be on VISA easy street.

Edited March 16, 2019 by BritManToo