thaibeachlovers Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 5 hours ago, heybruce said: Fulfilling his campaign promises? Really? I must have missed the news about Mexico paying for the wall. He's got 6 more years to make Mexico pay. Just be patient. If in 6 years time he hasn't got them to pay, that is the time to criticize him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolboy Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 53 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said: He's got 6 more years to make Mexico pay. Just be patient. If in 6 years time he hasn't got them to pay, that is the time to criticize him. Is that your rule for all politicians? Don't hold them accountable until their term ends? Do you think Trump has a secret plan that he's not sharing with the world? That he's waiting to reveal at the proper time? In fact, he's already claimed that Mexico is paying via increased tariffs which is utterly moronic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xylophone Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 19 minutes ago, bristolboy said: In fact, he's already claimed that Mexico is paying via increased tariffs which is utterly moronic. Yep, fits in nicely with his level of intelligence.........dumb-ass that he is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 10 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said: The Israelis would disagree. Far as I know Hadrian's wall and the great wall of China worked as intended. Wikipedia does not support the theory that they did not work. The Great Wall of China had troops stationed along its entire length. Hadrian's Wall was designed with Roman military camps stationed along it at intervals that ensured that no part of the wall was more than a one day march from a Roman legion. Once this permanent military manning was discontinued, the walls failed. Are you advocating a large, permanent military presence along with a wall on the Mexican border? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said: He's got 6 more years to make Mexico pay. Just be patient. If in 6 years time he hasn't got them to pay, that is the time to criticize him. Even the Trump administration is no longer defending the fantasy that Mexico will pay for the wall. Yet you still cling to the belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said: I've always wondered how poor people are able to endure thousands of miles of difficult, dangerous travel to get to the US border. How do they afford to pay all the bribes, the traffickers, food, places to stay on a journey of weeks? How do they get through Mexico without applying for refugee status there, as they won't have a visa, and Mexico doesn't like illegals? Who is paying? I would guess that poor people are accustomed to hardship, getting by with little, and improvising as they go. I assume you are attempting to start a conspiracy theory about evil forces funding these desperate people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpisgood Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 23 hours ago, usviphotography said: There are something like 31 ongoing "National Emergencies" enacted by past Presidents still in effect. What Trump did is not unusual at all, and fully within his authority as President as Congress already gave him the power to do what he did. The very fact that there is a statutory remedy within the bill for Congress to override the President's Action proves it. If he usurped their power, they'd just be screaming that what he did was unconstitutional and running to the Courts. Instead, they are using the mechanism within the National Emergency Act itself (which the Congress wrote and passed) in order to stop him. They just didn't get enough votes. Note that Congress could always repeal the National Emergencies Act itself by simple majority vote, but nobody is talking about doing that, which demonstrates their hypocrisy. It isn't the principle they object to- they just don't like this particular use of the act by this particular President. Sorry for the late reply. Other things going on. You raise a good issue, but it's not on point with we are talking about. To recap, Trump asked Congress to fund his boondoggle, also called "the wall." Congress said, "No." Trump then decided to use an end run, viz., declare a national emergency in order to get the funding he needs. As Bristolboy points out in post #55 above, Trump amazingly said that he didn't need to do it and even during the event in which he declares said emergency. Yes, past presidents have declared national emergencies, but they were not to circumvent Congress and its constitutional right to retain the power of the purse. Here's one of several news sites listing previous emergencies: https://www.ajc.com/news/national/here-list-the-national-emergencies-declared-the-last-seven-presidents/Fb5dM2Fy17mKyuo8jgMW9K/ Even Chris Wallace of Fox News says that Trump's "emergency" is not a real one: https://www.thedailybeast.com/foxs-chris-wallace-unlike-trumps-previous-national-emergencies-were-actually-real So, you have raised a fair question, but it's not on point with my understanding of Chomper's original point in post #8. Oh, I forgot to add that this is not necessary since Mexico will pay for the wall anyway. ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smotherb Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 11 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said: The Israelis would disagree. Far as I know Hadrian's wall and the great wall of China worked as intended. Wikipedia does not support the theory that they did not work. I got so excited with the Israelis that I skipped over your comment about Hadrian's and China's Walls. Nevertheless; the Manchus blew through the Great Wall of China and replaced the builders, the Ming dynasty. Hadrian's wall lasted less than 40 years and the barbarians were all over the Romans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelsall Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 Excellent use of his veto power by our duly elected president, Donald J. Trump. Good job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Kelsall said: Excellent use of his veto power by our duly elected president, Donald J. Trump. Good job! Surprising how many people think it's a good idea for Trump to use a veto to over-rule the US Constitution and take the power of government funding away from Congress. It's appalling how little respect some people have for our Constitution. I don't think the Supreme Court, even a Supreme court stacked with conservatives and Trump appointees, will let this violation of the letter and intent of the Constitution stand. The precedent would be to scary. For conservatives, imagine if the next President declares health care a national emergency and takes funds from the military to fund universal health care. If that happens, you can thank Trump for showing the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 13 hours ago, heybruce said: The Great Wall of China had troops stationed along its entire length. Hadrian's Wall was designed with Roman military camps stationed along it at intervals that ensured that no part of the wall was more than a one day march from a Roman legion. Once this permanent military manning was discontinued, the walls failed. Are you advocating a large, permanent military presence along with a wall on the Mexican border? 555555555555 We have something that the Romans didn't have- surveillance by electronics. The wall slows intruders down, allowing a fast response team to arrive. No need today to have a large on site human presence. Nice deflection though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 13 hours ago, heybruce said: Even the Trump administration is no longer defending the fantasy that Mexico will pay for the wall. Yet you still cling to the belief. I don't believe that I said I think Mexico will pay. I merely pointed out that he has 6 more years to get them to do so, or not. I certainly do not recall him saying by what date they would do so. If you have evidence to the contrary, please post it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyluke Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 On 3/16/2019 at 12:41 PM, Sir Swagman said: To me this means a complete rejection of democracy by this play acting president. Correct, but with this he paved the way for future presidents. One may use the same excuse (emergency crisis) to instore an efficient gun control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said: I don't believe that I said I think Mexico will pay. I merely pointed out that he has 6 more years to get them to do so, or not. I certainly do not recall him saying by what date they would do so. If you have evidence to the contrary, please post it. Trump could get Mexico to pay for the wall by charging at the border to cross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 41 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said: 555555555555 We have something that the Romans didn't have- surveillance by electronics. The wall slows intruders down, allowing a fast response team to arrive. No need today to have a large on site human presence. Nice deflection though. Not a deflection. You cited historical examples of walls that (temporarly) worked, I pointed out that the comparison was not valid. Surveillance works without walls as well as it works with walls. Also, as mentioned before, most of the immigrants who enter now are using legal points of entry and approaching the first uniformed person they can find to ask for asylum. A wall won't stop that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopDeadSenter Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 13 hours ago, heybruce said: The Great Wall of China had troops stationed along its entire length. Hadrian's Wall was designed with Roman military camps stationed along it at intervals that ensured that no part of the wall was more than a one day march from a Roman legion. Once this permanent military manning was discontinued, the walls failed. Are you advocating a large, permanent military presence along with a wall on the Mexican border? Is there any possibility that technology has advanced since Hadrians wall was built? It was a while ago. Something like 2,000 years in fact. Did much happen in the last 2,000 years Bruce? If the desire was there to protect the border it would be easy. There are numerous avenues open to stop border invasions that would work in tandem with Trump's wall. Possibilities such as land mines (or the implicit threat thereof), biological agents such as anthrax spores, predatory mammals, human soldiers, weaponized unmanned drones, sonic/ultrasound/wave technologies - I hear some of these can literally turn a human inside out. If the choice was between running the gauntlet through terrain seeded with mines, swarming with packs of chupacabra, the earth riddled with terrible disease spores, sonic weapons making your ears bleed only to reach Trumps Great southern wall and you forgot your 13 meter ladder or.....ah yes, applying for the correct visa and entering like every body else. What would a smart person do? I much appreciate Trump's efforts with getting this done in spite of all the negativity and trolling from the usual quarter. I have yet to hear a sane argument against a country protecting its borders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 42 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said: I don't believe that I said I think Mexico will pay. I merely pointed out that he has 6 more years to get them to do so, or not. I certainly do not recall him saying by what date they would do so. If you have evidence to the contrary, please post it. I see, so Trump's campaign promise should have been "Mexico will pay for the wall someday". Try getting a wall built, or anything else, with the promise that you will pay for it someday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 9 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said: Is there any possibility that technology has advanced since Hadrians wall was built? It was a while ago. Something like 2,000 years in fact. Did much happen in the last 2,000 years Bruce? If the desire was there to protect the border it would be easy. There are numerous avenues open to stop border invasions that would work in tandem with Trump's wall. Possibilities such as land mines (or the implicit threat thereof), biological agents such as anthrax spores, predatory mammals, human soldiers, weaponized unmanned drones, sonic/ultrasound/wave technologies - I hear some of these can literally turn a human inside out. If the choice was between running the gauntlet through terrain seeded with mines, swarming with packs of chupacabra, the earth riddled with terrible disease spores, sonic weapons making your ears bleed only to reach Trumps Great southern wall and you forgot your 13 meter ladder or.....ah yes, applying for the correct visa and entering like every body else. What would a smart person do? I much appreciate Trump's efforts with getting this done in spite of all the negativity and trolling from the usual quarter. I have yet to hear a sane argument against a country protecting its borders. You are getting into the creepy weirdness that prompts people to call law enforcement here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thakkar Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 2 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said: Is there any possibility that technology has advanced since Hadrians wall was built? It was a while ago. Something like 2,000 years in fact. Did much happen in the last 2,000 years Bruce? If the desire was there to protect the border it would be easy. There are numerous avenues open to stop border invasions that would work in tandem with Trump's wall. Possibilities such as land mines (or the implicit threat thereof), biological agents such as anthrax spores, predatory mammals, human soldiers, weaponized unmanned drones, sonic/ultrasound/wave technologies - I hear some of these can literally turn a human inside out. If the choice was between running the gauntlet through terrain seeded with mines, swarming with packs of chupacabra, the earth riddled with terrible disease spores, sonic weapons making your ears bleed only to reach Trumps Great southern wall and you forgot your 13 meter ladder or.....ah yes, applying for the correct visa and entering like every body else. What would a smart person do? I much appreciate Trump's efforts with getting this done in spite of all the negativity and trolling from the usual quarter. I have yet to hear a sane argument against a country protecting its borders. Demanding sane arguments from others in the same post where you seem to advocate the laying of land mines, spreading of biological agents, releasing (presumably trained to stay within a certain vicinity) predatory mammals and installing “ultrasound wave technologies” plucked straight from Sci-fi TV series “Lost”... I suspect your idea of “sanity” is pretty darn wacky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thakkar Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 2 hours ago, heybruce said: I see, so Trump's campaign promise should have been "Mexico will pay for the wall someday". Try getting a wall built, or anything else, with the promise that you will pay for it someday. “I didn’t say which Tuesday” - Trump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 2 hours ago, heybruce said: Try getting a wall built, or anything else, with the promise that you will pay for it someday. That is the central tenet of the US budgetary process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 2 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said: There are numerous avenues open to stop border invasions that would work in tandem with Trump's wall. Possibilities such as land mines (or the implicit threat thereof), biological agents such as anthrax spores, predatory mammals, human soldiers, weaponized unmanned drones, sonic/ultrasound/wave technologies - I hear some of these can literally turn a human inside out. Land mines, and biological agents such as Anthrax are banned by a variety of international treaties. Use of them, along with predatory animals, and sonic/ ultrasound technologies, to prevent illegal immigration would turn the United States into more of a pariah state than North Korea! In fact I am having trouble getting my head around how any sane person can even suggest using Anthrax spores as a means of preventing people crossing a border - "quite extraordinary" doesn't even come near - "absolutely ******* barking", whilst a crude colloquialism perhaps does... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 2 hours ago, heybruce said: I see, so Trump's campaign promise should have been "Mexico will pay for the wall someday". Try getting a wall built, or anything else, with the promise that you will pay for it someday. Well, from what one hears, it is a business model which has served Mr Trump well in the past! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Thakkar said: Demanding sane arguments from others in the same post where you seem to advocate the laying of land mines, spreading of biological agents, releasing (presumably trained to stay within a certain vicinity) predatory mammals and installing “ultrasound wave technologies” plucked straight from Sci-fi TV series “Lost”... I suspect your idea of “sanity” is pretty darn wacky. I suspect he was indulging in a bit of satire. Some posters need to jai yen, jai yen, methinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thakkar Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 48 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said: I suspect he was indulging in a bit of satire. Some posters need to jai yen, jai yen, methinks. Being satirical, like when Trump said “I have the best words” - while saying the most inane things. “I have the best people” - many of whom have proven to be crooks, grifters and liars. “Mexico will pay for it” - while quietly telling the Mexican president to pretend to pay for it so he has something vague to show his supporters. “Drain the swamp” - while hiring the usual swamp creatures. “Make America great again” - while publicly kowtowing to third rate dictators I guess I just don’t understand satire then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 6 minutes ago, Thakkar said: I guess I just don’t understand satire then. You would if you lived on Bizarro World. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 19 hours ago, Thakkar said: Being satirical, like when Trump said “I have the best words” - while saying the most inane things. “I have the best people” - many of whom have proven to be crooks, grifters and liars. “Mexico will pay for it” - while quietly telling the Mexican president to pretend to pay for it so he has something vague to show his supporters. “Drain the swamp” - while hiring the usual swamp creatures. “Make America great again” - while publicly kowtowing to third rate dictators I guess I just don’t understand satire then. I guess you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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