U.S. imposes visa bans on International Criminal Court investigators - Pompeo

[Benmart]

7 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Maybe the US shouldn't send their soldiers to the rest of the world. Then they wouldn't be able to behave like bad Americans while they are in other peoples counties. Go home and stay home - problem solved.

 

I agree. We should have not entered WW1 or WW2. "Bad Americans"? What a laugh. I din't know what world you live in or what nationality you hold. It seems like you have an axe out to take a swing in anonymity-land, but it seems the US isn't listening to your pathetic whimpering.

[Nyezhov]

3 minutes ago, Benmart said:

We should have not entered WW1 or WW2.

WWI absolutely. Biggest mistake of the 20th century.

[simple1]

Incompatibility with the U.S. Constitution debate

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_and_the_International_Criminal_Court#Incompatibility_with_the_U.S._Constitution

[farcanell]

15 minutes ago, Benmart said:

I agree. We should have not entered WW1 or WW2.

So.... I can only assume that you have no idea why the US entered those wars

 

regards WW1.... German uboats where sinking American ships... killing Americans here there and everywhere.... but your neutrality until the war had ground down to a standstill was admirable

 

regards WW2.... ummm... likewise, your neutrality until the German war machine had been fought to a standstill, was admirable.....but does Pearl Harbor ring any bells?

 

the US did not enter either war to assist allied nations out of some ultraistic motivation, they did it because they were attacked.

[from the home of CC]

5 hours ago, robblok said:

Let them do this, no problem, but they cant hold the moral high ground anymore.

in many countries views, they never did...

[Negita43]

One rule for them another for us. ... Of course USA is not the only country in the world to support this maxim

[CharlieH]

Reported off topic post removed.

[farcanell]

51 minutes ago, usviphotography said:

With regards to the first WWI, the only thing our involvement accomplished was kill a hundred thousand of our kids (mostly via the flu) and ensuring an unjust peace that would directly lead to another Great European War within just a couple decades. 

 

With regards to WWII, while some punitive action against Japan was justified, it is important to remember that our overlords instead concentrated primarily in the War in Europe, which has nothing to do with us or our interests at all. 

 

And it is important to separate Americans from the people that run America. Americans by and large are no fans of war whatsoever, and it is doubtful America would have gotten involved in any of these conflicts if the American public themselves were calling the shots. 

Well.... according to survey data at the time, the US people’s were in favor of going to war against axis forces in both wars, so if the American people were calling the shots... oh wait... representative elections... they were calling the shots.

 

and... y’all had to get involved in both theatres of ww2, for multiple reasons, including the fact that you needed to do your usual build up of overwhelming force in allied controlled territory, wherever it was needed (Europe, Africa, Australia)

 

but kudos on installing an “unjust peace” which led to the Second World War... well done

 

of note... “another great European war” is either naive or indicative of xenophobia, at best.... an indictment on your education system in the middle somewhere.... and at worst... well... best leave it there.

[Dap]

I tried to read all of the responses to this thread w/o comment but I need to say in defence of all the simple grunts that put up with all the cr*p just to keep simple folk feeding themselves and doing their best to keep the kids and their moms and pops from dying everywhere around the world that we try to work, ... tell me, someone, who does a better job of it than the U.S. grunt??? Never mind the politics which are all bullshit, just give the men and women on the ground, air ... their just do !!!!!

[car720]

9 hours ago, Lungstib said:

Poor old U.S. of A. Being seen for what it really is, losing its importance as a legal and moral upholder of peoples rights, no longer democratic and slipping further away from the majority who uphold the idea of world justice. How long before they attain a position similar to how they now view Iran. A comment made on this subject, included in an international newspaper added this;

James Goldston, the executive director of the Open Society Justice Initiative, said Pompeo’s remarks reflected the administration’s view that international law matters “only when it is aligned with US national interests”. 

Which pretty much agrees with all Naom Chomsky has been saying for years. A criminal state.

Chomsky..............my man.

[car720]

4 minutes ago, Dap said:

I tried to read all of the responses to this thread w/o comment but I need to say in defence of all the simple grunts that put up with all the cr*p just to keep simple folk feeding themselves and doing their best to keep the kids and their moms and pops from dying everywhere around the world that we try to work, ... tell me, someone, who does a better job of it than the U.S. grunt??? Never mind the politics which are all bullshit, just give the men and women on the ground, air ... their just do !!!!!

I don't think you will get any serious argument from anyone here.  We are all aware that the fighting men and women of all countries are just doing their job.  It is those at the top that cause all the pain.  Let me use Mao Zedong as an example.  The problem here is that Trump has done such a job of destroying any qualities that the US may have been able to claim previously.  This really is the final straw when they say to the rest of the world, "when we want to do it to someone then it is ok but when someone brings us to task then we will change the rules to suit ourselves."

[Nyezhov]

34 minutes ago, Dap said:

I tried to read all of the responses to this thread w/o comment but I need to say in defence of all the simple grunts that put up with all the cr*p just to keep simple folk feeding themselves and doing their best to keep the kids and their moms and pops from dying everywhere around the world that we try to work, ... tell me, someone, who does a better job of it than the U.S. grunt??? Never mind the politics which are all bullshit, just give the men and women on the ground, air ... their just do !!!!!

Oorah. God bless the US Armed Forces

[Nyezhov]

32 minutes ago, car720 said:

Chomsky..............my man.

Yeah an elderly Anarcho syndicalist. Micturating on the system that made him famous. Loser.

[farcanell]

4 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

Oorah. God bless the US Armed Forces

Mmmm..... isn’t this thread potentially about pursuing US armed forces members for war crimes?... or rather, about protecting them from prosecution for war crimes?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

11 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Human Rights Watch called the announcement a "thuggish attempt to penalise investigators" at the court.

 

I'm an American, and the Human Rights Watch assessment sounds correct to me.

 

The one issue I'm not following here is the article says the the U.S., China and Russia are not member states of the ICC. So if that's the case, how would the ICC have jurisdiction to prosecute personnel from those countries?

 

Because the alleged crimes occurred in countries that are member states like Afghanistan or elsewhere???

[Nyezhov]

9 minutes ago, farcanell said:

Mmmm..... isn’t this thread potentially about pursuing US armed forces members for war crimes?... or rather, about protecting them from prosecution for war crimes?

Yep. The US Military is great. if real war crimes are committed, we prosecute them.

 

 

[farcanell]

2 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

Yep. The US Military is great. if real war crimes are committed, we prosecute them.

 

 

In which case the ICC would have no not need to be investigating because...

 

11 hours ago, rooster59 said:

the ICC was established in 2002 to prosecute war crimes, genocide or crimes against humanity when a country is unable or unwilling to prosecute perpetrators.

Ergo, the ICC deems the US to be unwilling or unable to prosecute... probably the former

[Nyezhov]

4 minutes ago, farcanell said:

In which case the ICC would have no not need to be investigating because...

 

Ergo, the ICC deems the US to be unwilling or unable to prosecute... probably the former

Dude you are misusing Ergo again, one alleged fact you cite does not support the other.

 

But the bottom line is so what. If they think our soldiers are war criminals, sucks to be them, hahahaha, too bad, we not letting you in...and what are you gonna do, invade? How many divisions do you have Judge?

 

 

[joecoolfrog]

4 hours ago, roobaa01 said:

wondering what these icc clowns would have been told , if they would have tried to enter russia, china or iran for the same reason.

 

wbr

roobaa01

Thats the point , the USA is now on a par with these states , congratulations , yet another win !

[farcanell]

26 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

Dude you are misusing Ergo again, one alleged fact you cite does not support the other.

 

But the bottom line is so what. If they think our soldiers are war criminals, sucks to be them, hahahaha, too bad, we not letting you in...and what are you gonna do, invade? How many divisions do you have Judge?

 

 

Lol.... I don’t think I’m misusing ergo, which is another word for therefore, but as this isn’t an English language class, it doesn’t really matter.... ergo you need not get your panties in a bunch over it.

 

Anyway... any country that permits its soldiers to commit war crimes etc is arguably a rogue nation, and not a partner to be trusted or followed, so the USAs reputation is suffering, which cannot be good for it, or its allies, as its influence dwindles whilst it devolves to a pariah state status, albeit with a huge army.

 

Sure, that’s an over exaggeration, but bottom line is that thinking like yours is the exact reason why North Korea needs to maintain a nuclear arsenal... and why other countries should seriously consider developing one... what a wonderful picture trumptopia is drawing with its smudging crayons.... and yet another example as to why the USA is a flawed democracy eschewing transparency.

[Ulic]

8 hours ago, robblok said:

How the mighty have fallen, from a country that was trusted to a country... now its like Russia and China.

 

So many lies from the US like Saddam and his weapons, and people still believe the US does not cover things up ? The US like all other countries covers stuff up and by not allowing a 3rd party to look at it drops down to the level of China and Russia. That is fine with me IMHO the credibility is gone anyway especially with Thrump in power. 

 

Let them do this, no problem, but they cant hold the moral high ground anymore.

The problem is countries like the USA, Israel, China, Lybia, Qatar, Yemen, Iraq are not members of the International Criminal Court and never will be. They would never give up sovereignty and fully understood the likes of Henry Kissinger, Presidents Johnson, Nixon, amongst others would be tried for war crimes for bombs dropped in South East Asia, CIA assassinations and overthrowing foreign governments. The list would be endless. Regan coined the phrase "the shining city upon a hill" but knowing what everyone knows now, is it? Does anyone really think the US has the moral or ethical high ground? Compared to China, and Russia, they certainly do. But the US is far from perfect. They do make the choices that benefit them, and if those actions benefit others, great, if not, too bad. Very little to do with morals or ethics. Just what benefits them or their agenda, at the time. 

[Nyezhov]

4 minutes ago, farcanell said:

Sure, that’s an over exaggeration, but bottom line is that thinking like yours is the exact reason why North Korea needs to maintain a nuclear arsenal... and why other countries should seriously consider developing one... what a wonderful picture trumptopia is drawing with its smudging crayons

Your analysis is an over exaggeration and no pipsqueak state with nukes matters except to the extent that we might lose Des Moines.

 

Power is all that matters dude.  We have the power and are nice guys about it. Sure we make booboos, but s*i* happens. Collateral damage. Overall acceptable in the general scheme of things.

[Basil B]

And Pomeo speaks for who???

Congress? The Senate? Trump?

 

And who actually has the last say???

 

 

[Spidey]

7 hours ago, usviphotography said:

Reading comprehension is your friend. Trump is a salesman and frequently exaggerates or stretches the truth as salesmen are prone to do,

How strange. And here was me thinking that he was the POTUS.

[Basil B]

In the last week we in the UK have seen a decision to prosecute a soldier for a murder 47 year ago.

 

Often in many cases it may be down to training and deployment, soldiers are trained to be killing machines so they should be looking further up the chain of command.

[joecoolfrog]

1 hour ago, Nyezhov said:

Your analysis is an over exaggeration and no pipsqueak state with nukes matters except to the extent that we might lose Des Moines.

 

Power is all that matters dude.  We have the power and are nice guys about it. Sure we make booboos, but s*i* happens. Collateral damage. Overall acceptable in the general scheme of things.

Power is not eternal , when its gone only the legacy lives on. Fast food isn't gonna cut it.

[Marknreston]

China incarcerates hundreds of thousands in "re-education" camps in western China, kidnaps people from other countries because they criticize the regime; Russia either actively shoots down civilian airliners or provides the equipment to their surrogates who do so, Russia sends agents throughout the world to poison those that have escaped Putins control, specifically targets numerous hospitals in the Syrian war zone; Myanmar sends their military on killing and raping sprees and forces 700,000 to flee for their lives..........I could go on and on.  But where is the ICC in the above cases.  I don't agree with Trump on everything by a long shot but he has this right.  The ICC is a joke.  But those of you who are anti everything regarding the USA will not understand.  

[farcanell]

52 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

Your analysis is an over exaggeration and no pipsqueak state with nukes matters except to the extent that we might lose Des Moines.

 

Power is all that matters dude.  We have the power and are nice guys about it. Sure we make booboos, but s*i* happens. Collateral damage. Overall acceptable in the general scheme of things.

Eschewing checks and balances is not acceptable... checks and balances are a nessesity to any acceptable “general scheme”.... or government, as congress is now showing

 

And im not sure that you either “have the power” or are “nice guys about it”.... perhaps the former, although Russia and China might disagree, and it wouldn’t take much for an anti US collision to form a new power dynamic (which could be very very bad for us all).... but certainly not the later. Nice guys don’t protect war criminals.

 

obviously your not from Des Moines.... I’m not sure they would share your sentiment.... nor would those collaterally suffering from reprisals.... nuke NK and China will take out more than Des Moines... and Russia might not be happy over fallout in Vladivostok.

 

in fact, it could be argued that one nuke from a pip squeak state, obliterating Des Moines, would have to be accepted as collateral destruction to avoid MAD.... that’s perhaps the bigger picture in the general scheme of things.

[thaiguzzi]

USA?

More like TMBROT these days.

Embarrassing.

(The Mightiest Banana Republic Out There).

[Nyezhov]

15 minutes ago, joecoolfrog said:

Power is not eternal , when its gone only the legacy lives on.

Nothing is eternal dude.