For Thailand’s sake, let’s move beyond Thaksin

[Spidey]

2 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

We need a good government and at least I don't care if the stupid masses voted for it or not.

Well, the great US always tells us that the only way to attain good governance is through democracy. They have killed many thousands to prove that point. Are you saying it was all one big lie?

 

Personally, I would answer "yes" but this is Thailand, "stupid" Thai people's choice, not ours.

[Mavideol]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

First, he was convicted of malfeasance while occupying the Prime Minister’s Office and sentenced to two years in jail by a democratic judicial system at a time when the country was under democratic rule. 

something is not right, this must be fake news!!!!  a democratic judicial system in Thailand?

[Mexlark]

7 minutes ago, monkfish said:

Do you think the drug dealers were not armed and didn't kill people?

No.

Now look at the bigger picture. Why has nothing changed?

[billd766]

3 hours ago, Pilotman said:

I agree, Democracy does not suit Thailand, it never has.   Strangely perhaps, the proposed split of power after the election is not a bad compromise for this country and may just lead to longer term stability.  It will not of course advance the development of the Nation, but you can't have everything here. Thailand will never be a Singapore, but we should remember that SIN is a very authoritarian and controlling regime. 

I disagree with you about Democracy and Thailand.

 

The Thai people have never had the opportunity to have a real go at Democracy. Every time the start down that road the military stage a coup and reset the clock going back to 1932.

 

In the last 87 years the military have staged 19 coups and 12 succeeded with 12 of them.

 

Now we have a completely unfair and dishonest election and the Army chief of staff is threatening yet another coup.

 

IMHO if the perpetrators of the first coup had been executed for treason, (which is what a coup is all about,) and all the other coups then there would have been fewer coups and perhaps the Thai people would have had a functioning democracy now.

 

[Mavideol]

4 hours ago, Lungstib said:

Being here for quite a few years before Thaksins rise to power it was quite obvious that Thailands politics was already a shambles. When Prem stood down there was instant corrupt activity, probably equal to that taking place when he was in power but now out in the open. Chatchai's buffet cabinet was infamous and illegal logging was so rampant it was depicted in a cartoon with a forest of tree stumps. That led us back to the military via Sunthorn and Suchinda. And that ended in violence and killings. The problem is and has always been that politicians have 'persuaded' police and justice officials to take sides and laws have simply been bent and broken. Then the military come back and it all goes underground by silencing the media, scaring the populous and stopping the scandals coming out. Thaksin just epitomises the political way, and now Prayuth the military way. Both use the lack of proper laws to try to get more for themselves and both have no love for the general public. Finding someone to vote for that cares for your ideas and opinions is the real problem for the students, farmers, factory workers and young entrepreneurs of today. Selflessly serving others doesn't appear to be a common trait.  

An after thought; Thaksin is just emulating the military, he wont give in. Just like they keep coming back albeit with different faces, father and now son.

reading your comments it confirms my suspicions Thais have it (corruption) in their DNA, only solution it's a general population Blood Cleansing / Blood Detoxification and (maybe) in the next 2-3 generations things will improve,

[Mexlark]

3 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

IMHO if the perpetrators of the first coup had been executed for treason, (which is what a coup is all about,) and all the other coups then there would have been fewer coups and perhaps the Thai people would have had a functioning democracy now.

 

You might want to consider who many of those first coup plotters were. They were mainly (let's say for simplicity's sake) well-connected people who hadn't received the 'respect' they thought they were due under the 'new' regime. Nothing has changed that much since then. we're still stuck with a continual bunfight between well-connected factions.

[Spidey]

7 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

reading your comments it confirms my suspicions Thais have it (corruption) in their DNA, only solution it's a general population Blood Cleansing / Blood Detoxification and (maybe) in the next 2-3 generations things will improve,

The corruption DNA primarily comes from the Chinese DNA in their blood.

[MRToMRT]

Its so bad here, but most of us still choose to live here? A quandry.

[canuckamuck]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And somehow some people think they represent the poor. 555

The poor certainly believe it. He gave them their first sniff of political relevance

[Eric Loh]

53 minutes ago, Mexlark said:

You might want to consider who many of those first coup plotters were. They were mainly (let's say for simplicity's sake) well-connected people who hadn't received the 'respect' they thought they were due under the 'new' regime. Nothing has changed that much since then. we're still stuck with a continual bunfight between well-connected factions.

Beg to differ. Lots have changed since 1932 between the factions. The old coups were between old and new elites, generals and bureaucrats and the grassroots were passive. Now they found a voice and this fight will never be the same.

[Jip99]

4 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Beg to differ. Lots have changed since 1932 between the factions. The old coups were between old and new elites, generals and bureaucrats and the grassroots were passive. Now they found a voice and this fight will never be the same.

 

 

Except in the futility of the outcome....

[billd766]

1 hour ago, Mexlark said:

You might want to consider who many of those first coup plotters were. They were mainly (let's say for simplicity's sake) well-connected people who hadn't received the 'respect' they thought they were due under the 'new' regime. Nothing has changed that much since then. we're still stuck with a continual bunfight between well-connected factions.

But treason is still treason no matter who was involved.

 

HiSo or LoSo makes no difference.

 

If it was stamped on back then Thailand would be a better country and the military would know their place.

[jesimps]

6 hours ago, samsensam said:

 

absolutely, the system is rotten to the core.

 

over the weekend i mentioned the election to two friends, both told me vote buying was rampant - but not in every province, and i asked if they would accept the money - both said yes but also said they would not vote for the party that gave them the money - because they disagreed with corruption!

Accepting money to vote is the ideal way of putting the boot in on the party you dislike by voting for the party you support. Anyone who doesn't do that is a mug. I therefore don't see how vote buying can work.

[Pilotman]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

I disagree with you about Democracy and Thailand.

 

The Thai people have never had the opportunity to have a real go at Democracy. Every time the start down that road the military stage a coup and reset the clock going back to 1932.

 

In the last 87 years the military have staged 19 coups and 12 succeeded with 12 of them.

 

Now we have a completely unfair and dishonest election and the Army chief of staff is threatening yet another coup.

 

IMHO if the perpetrators of the first coup had been executed for treason, (which is what a coup is all about,) and all the other coups then there would have been fewer coups and perhaps the Thai people would have had a functioning democracy now.

 

That's because each of the so called 'democratic governments' voted into power were corrupt. 

[Eric Loh]

10 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Except in the futility of the outcome....

Some like you may hope that it’s just futility but history provide reasons to be hopeful when the grassroots have a cause and leaders. I am in that latter camp. 

[MisterPenguin]

37 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

That's because each of the so called 'democratic governments' voted into power were corrupt. 

 

No, it's because the people of Thailand have been subjugated into thinking that some folk are inherently better or more entitled than others, and therefore deserve more or better things.

 

Nothing you or I can do will change a thing, Thais will have to change it or not, the responsibility is theirs, and my only job is to enjoy the weather and allow the drones at Immigration to continue feeling more important than me.

 

Can I have another beer please?

 

 

[Hank Gunn]

4 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It's obvious in Thailand, the UK, the USA and many other places.

Give uneducated and uninformed idiots the right to vote and it's almost inevitable that they will f#$% it up.

 

"I know no safe depositary of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power." - Thomas Jefferson

[MisterPenguin]

5 minutes ago, Hank Gunn said:

"I know no safe depositary of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power." - Thomas Jefferson

Who didn't live in Thailand or among Thais.

[Eric Loh]

8 minutes ago, Hank Gunn said:

"I know no safe depositary of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power." - Thomas Jefferson

Goodness, that quote from TJ is more than 200 years old and still hold true to this day. Now who is the numbnut who dispute that. 

[MisterPenguin]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

I agree give him a trial again but for all his cases. Wanna bet he would be a too scared because we all know he is guilty for far more then just that case. The guy is so dirty and it can be proven. Not innocent not political (as in a made up case). So I would love a re trail for all his cases and him waiting it off in Thailand. This is as likely as the Prawit getting tried. They are on par both untouchable and dirty.

You miss the point. The Judiciary is no less dishonest and corrupt than anything else in Thailand. I have seen this working at first hand and I can tell you that there just isn't any way it will change without some serious bloodshed. In my opinion.

[Hank Gunn]

7 minutes ago, MisterPenguin said:

Who didn't live in Thailand or among Thais.

Doesn't matter one whit. Education and knowledge are transferrable wherever. (There have been plenty of Thai kids who've been competitive academically on the world stage when they've had a decent education.)

 

It's due to the greed of the Thail elite, who refuse a decent education for the masses, while they send their offspring to private schools then overseas to universities, that has resulted in an under-educated general populace. My wife has a couple of nieces who are quite bright, with natural intelligence, but their intellect has been smashed/restrained under the nationalistic indoctrination that passes for public schooling in this country.

 

They (the Thai elite) could live comfortable lives as upper-middle class and upper class by having a more equitable society but their greed has created this problem and Thaksin is merely a symptom of it.

[monkfish]

1 hour ago, Pilotman said:

That's because each of the so called 'democratic governments' voted into power were corrupt. 

And so the corrupt Civil Servants kick out the corrupt Politicians and the endless cycle of corruption continues.

[robblok]

35 minutes ago, MisterPenguin said:

You miss the point. The Judiciary is no less dishonest and corrupt than anything else in Thailand. I have seen this working at first hand and I can tell you that there just isn't any way it will change without some serious bloodshed. In my opinion.

The point is that Thaksin is as good as anyone in influencing the judiciary. He brought a cake box full of cash to them and then later said it was an accident. I guess only die hard Thaksin fans believe that one.(im amazed he was never convicted for it)  He was convicted while his party was in power during a democracy. He was dirty nothing more nothing less.

 

 

[Spidey]

53 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Goodness, that quote from TJ is more than 200 years old and still hold true to this day. Now who is the numbnut who dispute that. 

Exactly what happened in 1917. Thailand needs a couple of Lenins and Stalins to put power back into the hands of the people. Couple of million dead Thais but hey.

[monkfish]

14 minutes ago, robblok said:

The point is that Thaksin is as good as anyone in influencing the judiciary. He brought a cake box full of cash to them and then later said it was an accident. I guess only die hard Thaksin fans believe that one.(im amazed he was never convicted for it)  He was convicted while his party was in power during a democracy. He was dirty nothing more nothing less.

 

 

Well this is Thailand and donations are not unheard of.
But I do wonder if the current PM's wife bought some land if he would go to prison for it.
Somehow I don't think so.
 

[from the home of CC]

3 hours ago, Spidey said:

And since he was deposed, the drug problem in Thailand has spiralled out of control. He did not one tenth of what Duterte has done and even with a free and fair election, he would be re-elected tomorrow.

 

Desperate times call for desperate measures. There's a lot to be said for popping a cap into the back of a drug dealer's head and asking questions later.

 The year I came to Thailand (2003) 200 to 300 people were being killed monthly. I'm surprised someone didn't assassinate the sick bastard. Turned out a lot of these people had nothing to do with the drug trade. The big kingpin drug dealers just love this sort of rhetoric, the longer it keeps up the more money they'll keep on making. Duterte has made the meth makers rich by driving up the price while doing exactly zero about the supply. Nobody is going to tell the Chinese to stop supplying drugs to half the world especially third world mass murderers disguised as politicians.

[Longcut]

3 hours ago, billd766 said:

I disagree with you about Democracy and Thailand.

 

The Thai people have never had the opportunity to have a real go at Democracy. Every time the start down that road the military stage a coup and reset the clock going back to 1932.

 

In the last 87 years the military have staged 19 coups and 12 succeeded with 12 of them.

 

Now we have a completely unfair and dishonest election and the Army chief of staff is threatening yet another coup.

 

IMHO if the perpetrators of the first coup had been executed for treason, (which is what a coup is all about,) and all the other coups then there would have been fewer coups and perhaps the Thai people would have had a functioning democracy now.

 

Thailand might be proud of the fact that they were never colonized. But, it is to their detriment, that no one ever showed them how a government works. 

[Eric Loh]

12 minutes ago, monkfish said:

Well this is Thailand and donations are not unheard of.
But I do wonder if the current PM's wife bought some land if he would go to prison for it.
Somehow I don't think so.
 

The junta amnesty include corruption. 

[MisterPenguin]

1 hour ago, Hank Gunn said:

Doesn't matter one whit. Education and knowledge are transferrable wherever. (There have been plenty of Thai kids who've been competitive academically on the world stage when they've had a decent education.)

 

It's due to the greed of the Thail elite, who refuse a decent education for the masses, while they send their offspring to private schools then overseas to universities, that has resulted in an under-educated general populace. My wife has a couple of nieces who are quite bright, with natural intelligence, but their intellect has been smashed/restrained under the nationalistic indoctrination that passes for public schooling in this country.

 

They (the Thai elite) could live comfortable lives as upper-middle class and upper class by having a more equitable society but their greed has created this problem and Thaksin is merely a symptom of it.

Fully agree with most of this. Para 1 ought to have read: "In theory, education and knowledge are transferrable wherever - or should be". Thailand unfortunately disproves that one shining principle.

 

 

[MisterPenguin]

21 minutes ago, monkfish said:

Well this is Thailand and donations are not unheard of.
But I do wonder if the current PM's wife bought some land if he would go to prison for it.
Somehow I don't think so.
 

And in that one paragraph, you beautifully show up all the comments and shonky rationales of the anti-Thaksin brigade for the unintelligent sham they really are.