New Zealand PM Ardern targets gun reform laws after weekend of mourning

[webfact]

New Zealand PM Ardern targets gun reform laws after weekend of mourning

By Charlotte Greenfield and Tom Westbrook

 

New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern meets representatives of the Muslim community at Canterbury refugee centre in Christchurch, New Zealand March 16, 2019. New Zealand Prime Minister's Office/Handout via REUTERS.

 

CHRISTCHURCH (Reuters) - Tightening New Zealand's gun laws is at the top of Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern's agenda as she meets with her cabinet on Monday for the first time since the mass shooting in Christchurch that killed dozens of Muslim worshippers.

 

The death toll from the massacre stands at 50, with another 50 people injured, after a gunman burst into a mosque and opened fire on worshippers with a semi-automatic rifle and high-capacity magazines, and then attacked a second mosque.

 

Australian Brenton Tarrant, 28, a suspected white supremacist, was charged with murder on Saturday. Tarrant was remanded without a plea and is due back in court on April 5 where police said he was likely to face more charges.

 

Ardern was the first signatory of a national condolence book for the worst peacetime mass killing in New Zealand that she opened in the capital Wellington on Monday.

 

"On behalf of all New Zealanders, we grieve together. We are one. They are us," she wrote in the book.

 

The shock of the attacks has led to calls for an immediate tightening of laws to restrict access to some firearms, particularly semi-automatic weapons such as the AR-15 rifle used by the shooter in Christchurch.

 

"What the public rightly are asking right now is why is it and how is it that you are currently able to buy military style semi-automatic weapons in New Zealand, and that's the right question to ask," Ardern told TVNZ earlier on Monday.

 

"There are ways we can bring in affective regulation of firearms that actually target those we need to target and that is our focus."

 

New Zealand, a country of only 5 million people, has an estimated 1.5 million firearms.

 

A Radio New Zealand report said more than 99 percent of people who applied for a firearms licence in 2017 were successful.

 

The report was based on police data secured through an Official Information Act request, although it was not clear who made the request as those details had been redacted.

 

In 2017, there were 43,509 firearm licence applications, and only 188 applications were declined, the data showed.

 

After Ardern vowed at the weekend to change the gun laws, there were media reports that people were rushing to buy guns before any ban was implemented.

 

New Zealand's top online marketplace Trade Me Group said it was halting the sale of semi-automatic weapons in the wake of Friday's attack.

 

Police were out in force on Monday to assure Christchurch residents of their safety as they returned to their weekday lives, after a lockdown affected parts of the city on Friday after the shootings.

 

Police said the airport in the southern city of Dunedin, had been reopened early on Monday after a suspicious item found on the airfield turned out to be a hoax object.

 

And Australian police executed two search warrants in towns on the New South Wales mid-north coast related to the investigation.

 

BURIAL FRUSTRATIONS

Frustration was building among the families of victims as under Islam it is custom to conduct burials within 24 hours, but bodies will not be released until post mortems are carried out.

 

The burial process, which usually involves washing with three kinds of water, salving wounds and scrubbing skin, would be complicated, volunteers in Christchurch said.

 

Mo, a volunteer who had flown in from Brisbane to wash the bodies, said the people who died in the mosques were classified as martyrs. That meant there were different views as to whether they would be washed or not because he said Islamic jurisprudence said martyrs are not to be washed as their blood was witness to their martyrdom.

 

"But some people have said because it was not a battlefield it is okay to wash the body. But it is at the discretion of the family," said Mo. He asked to be identified by just one name.

 

(Writing by John Mair and Praveen Menon; Editing by Lincoln Feast and Michael Perry)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-03-18

[MalandLee]

Question: Is removing NZ'ers right to own a firearm a form of mass punishment??

 

They have not had any major issues with firearms before this Australian Person committed this horrendous, unforgivable act.

 

Question: Should other curtailment or removal of "rights" be considered an appropriate response?

 

Can we not learn from the USA & Britain et. al. - The "Patriot Act" - Americans (USA) were promised it would end in 2005, it was extended, after a further 4 years, then extended again, then yet again by Obama...  Loss of hard won freedoms  by our USA brothers and sisters?? Of course you be the judge.

 

The has to be a price - say many.

 

Why? does there have to be a price??, ask some.

 

[SammyT]

4 hours ago, MalandLee said:

Question: Is removing NZ'ers right to own a firearm a form of mass punishment??

  

They have not had any major issues with firearms before this Australian Person committed this horrendous, unforgivable act.

 

Question: Should other curtailment or removal of "rights" be considered an appropriate response?

 

 

 

They're only limiting MSSA weapons, not other rifles which can be used for other purposes. Just semi-automatics which are designed only to kill other humans. It is a very small minority who will oppose this. 

[MalandLee]

23 minutes ago, SammyT said:

They're only limiting MSSA weapons, not other rifles which can be used for other purposes. Just semi-automatics which are designed only to kill other humans. It is a very small minority who will oppose this. 

I Understand and respect your POV

 

Personally I see all guns as having ONE purpose - to KILL. I have no interest in the nonsense argument(s)  "Sporting Shooters" etc.. etc.. In my opinion "The Gun" has no place in sport.

 

My argument is about removing freedoms from a society that functions well, in response to an incident. The price of freedom sets a high bar. Those countries that enjoy a high level of freedom, have often paid a high price for it.

 

[usviphotography]

Never let a good crisis go to West. Looks like Arden is using this event as her excuse to both ban guns and institute Chinese style internet controls. The latter is probably more dangerous in the short term. 

[Baerboxer]

7 hours ago, MalandLee said:

Question: Is removing NZ'ers right to own a firearm a form of mass punishment??

 

They have not had any major issues with firearms before this Australian Person committed this horrendous, unforgivable act.

 

Question: Should other curtailment or removal of "rights" be considered an appropriate response?

 

Can we not learn from the USA & Britain et. al. - The "Patriot Act" - Americans (USA) were promised it would end in 2005, it was extended, after a further 4 years, then extended again, then yet again by Obama...  Loss of hard won freedoms  by our USA brothers and sisters?? Of course you be the judge.

 

The has to be a price - say many.

 

Why? does there have to be a price??, ask some.

 

 

Agree - but their has to be an examination of laws to make sure they are fit for purpose.

 

One thing NZ must consider is if a Moslem gunman had carried out a similar attack on a Christian church, Jewish or Hindu place of worship, would their response be the same. It should be the same response whoever the victims and perps are and must not be knee jerk.

 

We've seen draconian laws introduced in the UK regarding knives, which does impact on a vast majority due to the actions of a tiny minority who it seems ignore the laws anyway.

 

 

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, usviphotography said:

Never let a good crisis go to West. Looks like Arden is using this event as her excuse to both ban guns and institute Chinese style internet controls. The latter is probably more dangerous in the short term. 

 

Once government gets control of the internet, given the importance now of this media, then very dangerous scenarios are possible.

[Baerboxer]

2 hours ago, MalandLee said:

I Understand and respect your POV

 

Personally I see all guns as having ONE purpose - to KILL. I have no interest in the nonsense argument(s)  "Sporting Shooters" etc.. etc.. In my opinion "The Gun" has no place in sport.

 

My argument is about removing freedoms from a society that functions well, in response to an incident. The price of freedom sets a high bar. Those countries that enjoy a high level of freedom, have often paid a high price for it.

 

 

Individual freedoms are being eroded in the "Western" style democracies that have traditionally cherished and defended them.

 

Terrorists have presented politicians with an opportunity that many are only too eager to grasp.

[Nyezhov]

2 hours ago, MalandLee said:

I Understand and respect your POV

 

Personally I see all guns as having ONE purpose - to KILL. I have no interest in the nonsense argument(s)  "Sporting Shooters" etc.. etc.. In my opinion "The Gun" has no place in sport.

 

My argument is about removing freedoms from a society that functions well, in response to an incident. The price of freedom sets a high bar. Those countries that enjoy a high level of freedom, have often paid a high price for it.

 

Wow dude are you saying you hate guns but realize the bottom line is a freedom issue? Wow.

 

Thats rare from a hoplophobe.

[Kiwiken]

4 hours ago, SammyT said:

They're only limiting MSSA weapons, not other rifles which can be used for other purposes. Just semi-automatics which are designed only to kill other humans. It is a very small minority who will oppose this. 

Gun shops have sold out of Ar15,s they will go underground. Last time they did this only 1800 of 76000 imported mssa were handed in. The legisation will miss the point. This nutter was not a citizen or a resident even. He should not have been allowed a gun license. But instead they punish us the Public for their own shortcomings

[Chomper Higgot]

Times change.

 

Changing laws to suit the times.

 

Seems perfectly reasonable.

 

 

[samran]

4 minutes ago, Kiwiken said:

Gun shops have sold out of Ar15,s they will go underground. Last time they did this only 1800 of 76000 imported mssa were handed in. The legisation will miss the point. This nutter was not a citizen or a resident even. He should not have been allowed a gun license. But instead they punish us the Public for their own shortcomings

He’s an Australian citizen who more or less have automatic residency rights to live and work in NZ indefinitely. He bought the things entirely legally. 

[Chomper Higgot]

The mathematics of risk are very clear.

 

If an item is dangerous, reducing the number of those dangerous items reduces the risk associated with the items.

 

 

[samran]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The mathematics of risk are very clear.

 

If an item is dangerous, reducing the number of those dangerous items reduces the risk associated with the items.

 

 

Surely not? I thought it was ‘thoughts and prayers’ which did the trick.

[from the home of CC]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

We've seen draconian laws introduced in the UK regarding knives, which does impact on a vast majority due to the actions of a tiny minority who it seems ignore the laws anyway.

what are they going to do if people start sharpening spoons? make everyone eat with their hands?

[TopDeadSenter]

11 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The mathematics of risk are very clear.

 

If an item is dangerous, reducing the number of those dangerous items reduces the risk associated with the items.

 

 

Not that clear, because there are 2 schools of thought. One as described above blames the weapon and lessens the murderers role in the attack. Man shoots people in mosque = ban guns.

 

 The other school of thought, and the one I subscribe to, is that the human perpetrator is responsible 100% for his actions. If he stabs someone with a knife you do not need to ban knives. If he murders people with a truck, there is no need to ban trucks. The solution to lessening societal violence lies in good parenting, traditional family units, social cohesion and severe punishments for violent offenders.

 

 I am appalled to see the NZ PM using this incident as an excuse to play such a dirty political game. Classic opportunism, and very crass behavior. Wearing an item of clothing that symbolizes repression of women amongst other things was also probably not advisable.

 

 

[Bluespunk]

3 hours ago, usviphotography said:

Never let a good crisis go to West. Looks like Arden is using this event as her excuse to both ban guns and institute Chinese style internet controls. The latter is probably more dangerous in the short term. 

Banning guns isn't dangerous at all in my opinion.

[Spidey]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Agree - but their has to be an examination of laws to make sure they are fit for purpose.

 

One thing NZ must consider is if a Moslem gunman had carried out a similar attack on a Christian church, Jewish or Hindu place of worship, would their response be the same. It should be the same response whoever the victims and perps are and must not be knee jerk.

 

We've seen draconian laws introduced in the UK regarding knives, which does impact on a vast majority due to the actions of a tiny minority who it seems ignore the laws anyway.

 

 

We also saw draconian laws introduced in the UK regarding guns. Very difficult to obtain a gun in the UK now.

 

However, as a result, not one terrorist attack in the UK has involved guns, apart from one incident where armed police shot the knife wielding terrorists dead. Neither have we had a mass shooting since the laws were introduced. Their introduction has, no doubt, saved many lives.

 

Knife crime is becoming a problem in the UK now, particularly in London, but knife crime involves single figures of dead, not the horrendous numbers seen in Christchurch or any number of mass shootings in the USA.

 

I think that Jacinda Ardem has been brilliant throughout this tragedy, hard to imagine a male PM act as compassionately and as swiftly as her. One of New Zealand's finest.

 

Imagine if this had happened in the US, Trump wouldn't have got off the golf course yet and, when he did, would have said all the wrong things and would certainly done zilch about the ridiculously lax gun laws in the US.

[Chomper Higgot]

25 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Not that clear, because there are 2 schools of thought. One as described above blames the weapon and lessens the murderers role in the attack. Man shoots people in mosque = ban guns.

 

 The other school of thought, and the one I subscribe to, is that the human perpetrator is responsible 100% for his actions. If he stabs someone with a knife you do not need to ban knives. If he murders people with a truck, there is no need to ban trucks. The solution to lessening societal violence lies in good parenting, traditional family units, social cohesion and severe punishments for violent offenders.

 

 I am appalled to see the NZ PM using this incident as an excuse to play such a dirty political game. Classic opportunism, and very crass behavior. Wearing an item of clothing that symbolizes repression of women amongst other things was also probably not advisable.

 

 

Your analysis is being proven wrong every single day in the US, and a whole bunch of other places awash with guns.

 

NZ’s PM has the political will to learn from this and act accordingly.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, riclag said:

world wide confiscation of legally owned  guns is the answer! Soldiers,Police, Government ,everybody ,including banning Hollywood movies and video games! Have a buy back program for the illegals(lol)

People kill not guns !Fix the people! That ain't happening soon

Hyperbole.

 

 

[samran]

3 minutes ago, Spidey said:

We fixed it in the UK, New Zealand is about to fix it, why can't the US?

https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1819576527

 

[riclag]

Crime, criminals and guns! Take away the criminals and do away with crime (1% crime ) I' will consider giving in 

[roo860]

If you want a firearm to commit a crime in the UK they are available, regardless of what laws there are in place.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/27/police-struggle-to-stop-flood-of-firearms-into-uk

 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

[Basil B]

11 hours ago, MalandLee said:

Question: Is removing NZ'ers right to own a firearm a form of mass punishment??

 

They have not had any major issues with firearms before this Australian Person committed this horrendous, unforgivable act.

 

Question: Should other curtailment or removal of "rights" be considered an appropriate response?

 

Can we not learn from the USA & Britain et. al. - The "Patriot Act" - Americans (USA) were promised it would end in 2005, it was extended, after a further 4 years, then extended again, then yet again by Obama...  Loss of hard won freedoms  by our USA brothers and sisters?? Of course you be the judge.

 

The has to be a price - say many.

 

Why? does there have to be a price??, ask some.

 

It will be a struggle and can not be achieved over night but my suggestions would be:

Phase 1. mandatory registration of all firearms and tighter control of sales of firearms, legal requirement to keep firearms and ammunition in safes.

Phase 2. Reduce the number of licences by re issue of firearm licences, consideration of purpose for use, limitation number an type of firearms held,  criminal records cheek, mental health check (psychometric test). 

 

[roo860]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/27/police-struggle-to-stop-flood-of-firearms-into-uk

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[farcanell]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

That's not how it worked in the UK. When the law was changed, we had a gun amnesty and all good men and true walked into the local police station and handed their guns in. Simples!

That’s more or less how it went down in Australia..... I actually got more money thru the gun buy back scheme Australia used during the amnesty, than I had paid out... and as I had found that I didn’t like killing things with a gun, it was a great outcome.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.   The topic is not about the US Constitution and the 2nd Amendment.   Stay on topic or face a suspension.

 

[simple1]

10 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Not that clear, because there are 2 schools of thought. One as described above blames the weapon and lessens the murderers role in the attack. Man shoots people in mosque = ban guns.

 

 The other school of thought, and the one I subscribe to, is that the human perpetrator is responsible 100% for his actions. If he stabs someone with a knife you do not need to ban knives. If he murders people with a truck, there is no need to ban trucks. The solution to lessening societal violence lies in good parenting, traditional family units, social cohesion and severe punishments for violent offenders.

 

 I am appalled to see the NZ PM using this incident as an excuse to play such a dirty political game. Classic opportunism, and very crass behavior. Wearing an item of clothing that symbolizes repression of women amongst other things was also probably not advisable.

 

 

What dirty political game? All the NZ PM is seeking to do is ban privately held semi and automatic weapons, high capacity magazines and so on. Why on earth does a hunter require such weapons or indeed other civilians when they have proven to be highly effective mass murder killing instruments. It is absolutely crazy the Oz and NZ societies to be burdened with an aspect of the politically motivated stupidity of US society which the Right constantly advocates.

[beechguy]

11 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Banning guns isn't dangerous at all in my opinion.

Then don't buy one, and leave the rest of us alone. I wonder if they have even figured out, what the difference is between a semi-automatic firearm and automatic firearm that was reported earlier. Same for the shooting in the Netherlands.

[beechguy]

I'm amazed at the rocket scientists, that think banning firearms, especially the AR-15 types, is really a solution. As I already stated, some so stupid, they don't know the difference between semi-automatic, and automatic. 

 

In the U.S. the Navy Shipyard shooter didn't need a rifle, or even a semi-automatic firearm, he used a simple pump action shotgun, the Virginia Tech shooter didn't even use a rifle, he used two handguns. Timothy McVeigh said to hell with it, said I'm not wasting time, and used fertilizer to kill 168. The common problem is the criminal, not the tools used.

 

Bottom line, I'm glad NZ is stuck with that PM, and not me.