Thailand Elite Visa flaws my review!

[gentlemanjackdarby]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

But $1,400 application fee, then $360/year, includes health care.

Covers your wife and child as well.

 

Cambodia is cheaper at a straight $300/year (multiple entry)

No type of Philippines SRRV includes health care as part of application or annual fee

 

It does allow, if one so chooses, to sign up for PhilHealth, the Philippines national health care program for PHP 17,000 (about USD 325)

 

For anyone considering the Philippines and/or PhilHealth, it's essential to do some research; PhilHealth is not comprehensive health insurance as is, for example, a health care policy from Pacific Cross Philippines.

 

PhilHealth is for inpatient care only and, most importantly for expats, expats can no longer be covered by the 'Z' package, which covers the expensive things like cancer.

 

The general consensus is the for about USD 325, PhilHealth is worth it from the perspective of getting one into the hospital and 'keeping the hospital honest' from a cost perspective but, in my view, other health insurance is essential

[AtoZ]

4 minutes ago, gentlemanjackdarby said:

The general consensus is the for about USD 325, PhilHealth is worth it from the perspective of getting one into the hospital and 'keeping the hospital honest' from a cost perspective but, in my view, other health insurance is essential

And what insurance do you get for $28 a month in Thailand?

 

Kick in the ass from hospital property to die on the street?

[gentlemanjackdarby]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

No/Yes, it's for everyone, there's even a special retirement VISA for the chronically ill SRRV Human Touch.

(But you need Health Insurance acceptable in Philippine hospitals)

 

https://pra.gov.ph/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/SRRV-Info-Guide-04.14.15.pdf

Mind you the medical evaluation is probably the same as Thailand, if you can walk in, you've passed.

I don't have any medical problems, despite being really old, so it doesn't really worry me.

 

Still a bit pricey IMHO (but cheaper than Thailand).

I'd just go as a tourist and extend indefinitely with a jump out and in every 3 years.

That's a lot cheaper at around $300/year, no deposit or financial.

I think you're likely right that in order to qualify under the SRRV Human Touch, there's likely a lot of 'flexibility' in being able to medically qualify, especially if one preferred to have one's 'conditions' evaluated by health care professionals in the PI

 

However, I think if one were able to qualify, it's possible that the PRA (Philippines Retirement Authority - the outfit that runs the SRRV program) **might** expect to see somewhat significant, by PI standards, expenditures for health care services. I can see where that might be a significant problem for someone having difficulty meeting the financial standards for retirement in Thailand.

 

I don't think having health insurance acceptable to PI health care providers is a huge problem unless one's budget is really tight - I've been looking at Pacific Cross and their premiums are inexpensive by U.S. standards with options to cut the premium further by assuming a portion of the risk (deductible) and foregoing coverage in high cost areas such as the U.S. Japan, etc.

 

One of the things that, as an American, I've never seen before is that PC offers policies for folks over 65 with lower coverage amounts along with correspondingly lower premiums - that's not ideal, but at least one could have coverage for the lesser bad things likely to happen as one ages and that would likely allow one to meet the SRRV Human Touch health insurance requirement, if there is one.

 

[PingRoundTheWorld]

On 3/19/2019 at 7:22 PM, Peterw42 said:

It makes complete sense in your situation. 5 years of out/in every 90 days would add up to more than the price an Elite. Even if you were just going to KL etc, it would still cost 20-30k per trip, 

That's assuming you actually spent all year in Thailand - which is unlikely for most expats. Personally I go to my home country twice a year anyway, so having to take 2-4 extra trips to nearby countries during the year doesn't sound bad at all. A few nights in Cambodia costs 10k baht including flights and hotels. A week in Philippines about 20k. Include the cost of METVs and some extensions and it's still only 50k a year - half the price of Elite. Of course that comes with more hassle, but then again you don't have to pay 5 years in advance.

[BritManToo]

45 minutes ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

A few nights in Cambodia costs 10k baht including flights and hotels.

Off topic

Flight (one way) from CM to HCMC including 5 nights in a air-con double room by September park was 3,200bht.

Bus to Phnom Penh 325bht, 5 nights in a riverside 4* hotel inc breakfast 5,000bht.

Haven't worked out the trip back from there yet.

Edited March 22, 2019 by BritManToo

[JackThompson]

I lived about a year in the PI.

 

9 hours ago, AtoZ said:

People are way nicer, everything is significantly cheaper, nobody tries to rip you off.

No, there are scammers (I dealt with them), but I agree most people there are very nice  and polite.  Avoiding Manila, is a good start. 

 

9 hours ago, AtoZ said:

Even old ladies in sari sari stores speak reasonable English, you would have to look hard to find someone who doesn't.

Moto drivers and other low-level workers.  Those who can put enough smarts and capital together for a store (even a little one) usually do know basic-English.

 

9 hours ago, AtoZ said:

Can't walk out late at night? Why? Haven't felt in danger anywhere.

Manila is one thing, the rest of the country is something else.  I often went out very late in Cebu and other medium-sized towns w/o any issues.

 

9 hours ago, AtoZ said:

Actually one night I was fairly drunk walking back to hotel and I fall down because my flip flop broke. I broke my knee, no flip flop, and several tricycle drivers run to me to help. They could easily take something, but nope. I got ride back to the hotel for fair price and smile.

I have found Thai people also are very helpful to people who are injured or disabled. 

 

9 hours ago, AtoZ said:

Filipinos are way nicer, happier and less scammy than Thais. 

The Filipino cultural mindset is more accessible / familiar to Western people, due to a common religion and being dominated by Spain for centuries, and then the USA.  It will, therefore, seem more "normal" than a culture with much greater independent evolution in recent centuries.

 

Some aspects of Thai culture strike people the wrong way, though it is not intended to be "rude" - it's just "their way" as learned as children.  That is a two-way street, though - they find our mannerisms to be similarly impolite, sometimes.  Fortunately, they generally laugh about it when we do things a small Thai child would have been taught was "not ok." 

 

I found that PI crowds had more of the Chinese "scrum" behavior, than what I have experienced in Thailand, so its a matter of trade-offs. 

I love the Russians making it a point of pride to see who can get up first to give their seat on a crowded bus to a lady who boards.  My country used to have "class" like that.  I might miss it, if it still did.

[JackThompson]

9 hours ago, AtoZ said:

And what insurance do you get for $28 a month in Thailand?

 

Kick in the ass from hospital property to die on the street?

Work a year, and then keep paying into the Thai health system.  It's about that much, but also does not cover cancer, etc - so you need supplemental coverage - same as the PI.

 

30 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

1 hour ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

A few nights in Cambodia costs 10k baht including flights and hotels.

Flight (one way) from CM to HCMC including 5 nights in a air-con double room by September park was 3,200bht.

Have to add in that return-flight - but in these comparisons, it is important not to count the costs of a trip which one "would be doing anyway" - such as going out to eat, entertainment, etc.  The cost of a "visa trip" is the cost of transportation, room, and visa.  If you travel "for fun" anyway, only the visa-cost really factors in. 

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, JackThompson said:

Have to add in that return-flight

Not if you're taking the bus.

[AtoZ]

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

The Filipino cultural mindset is more accessible / familiar to Western people, due to a common religion and being dominated by Spain for centuries, and then the USA.  It will, therefore, seem more "normal" than a culture with much greater independent evolution in recent centuries.

By nicer and happier I mostly meant when they sing, dance, and genuinely smile and are friendly towards you.

 

Security guards, 711 staff, students randomly on the streets - singing and dancing. You don't see happiness in Thailand that much anymore. Students hugging each other and being nice to each other instead of fighting. Of course non of it is always, but I mean generally.

 

As you pointed you can find all negatives in Manila, I don't count Manila as livable part of the PH.

[AtoZ]

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Work a year, and then keep paying into the Thai health system.  It's about that much, but also does not cover cancer, etc - so you need supplemental coverage - same as the PI.

I worked 12+ hours a day, 7 days a week for years in order to free myself from 9-5 rat race

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, AtoZ said:

I worked 12+ hours a day, 7 days a week for years in order to free myself from 9-5 rat race

I completely understand.  But it's the only way I know of to get that option here.

[PingRoundTheWorld]

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Have to add in that return-flight

Which would be the more expensive flight, considering you'd need to return via BKK and not DMK. As far as other costs such as entertainment - I would do it anyway in Bangkok at higher prices - so in that respect you're actually saving money. A Belvedere in a Bangkok club is around 5k, same bottle in a club in Philippines is 2700 baht - half.

[MartinBKK]

There are many factors to consider when deciding if it's right for you. I have been a member for three years and couldn't be happier here. The visa is fantastic as is the airport service. I have never been disappointed. The two year driving license is not ideal but i was lucky enough to be given a five year one anyway. 90 day reports are completely taken  of by an agent here in CM all i do is hand my passport in on a Tuesday and go to collect it on Thursday. i believe this service is also in Phuket as well as BKK of course. I went for the 20 year option and it was a no brainer for me. 

[galt67]

22 hours ago, MartinBKK said:

There are many factors to consider when deciding if it's right for you.

+1

Amazing how many become 'emotional' with ridicule and anger about anyone choosing a TE visa.

 

Jealousy (envy), perhaps?

 

And regarding 90-day reports, TE does the report for you in CM, Pattaya, Phuket, BKK.

[Sheryl]

13 minutes ago, galt67 said:

And regarding 90-day reports, TE does the report for you in CM, Pattaya, Phuket, BKK.

 

But you have to travel to their office and drop off your passport, then travel back again to pick it up. How is this better than making a single trip to immigration to do it yourself? To me, it is more work, not less. 2 trips instead of one.

 

If they truly want to offer a service for 90 day reports they should pick up the passport from you and drop it back off. Including for those not living in the few places where TE has an office.  Easy enough to do nowadays with services like Kerry.

 

AND also do the TM30s.

 

I recently looked over the TE. I have a retirement extension so it is not necessary but I was curious to see what it offered, had it be any significant benefit beyond a 5 year visa I might have considered it. I was struck by the  absence of any meaningful benefits other than the visa which is worth the money only for those without other options i.e. under 50 and not married to a Thai.

 

They could do much better and attract more people but it would need some consumer research which, from the current design, they don't seem to have done.

 

Still, it is the only really reliable option for those not eligible for retirement or marriage extension wishing to live here.

[Bang Bang]

11 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

But you have to travel to their office and drop off your passport, then travel back again to pick it up. How is this better than making a single trip to immigration to do it yourself? To me, it is more work, not less. 2 trips instead of one.

 

If they truly want to offer a service for 90 day reports they should pick up the passport from you and drop it back off. Including for those not living in the few places where TE has an office.  Easy enough to do nowadays with services like Kerry.

 

AND also do the TM30s.

 

I recently looked over the TE. I have a retirement extension so it is not necessary but I was curious to see what it offered, had it be any significant benefit beyond a 5 year visa I might have considered it. I was struck by the  absence of any meaningful benefits other than the visa which is worth the money only for those without other options i.e. under 50 and not married to a Thai.

 

They could do much better and attract more people but it would need some consumer research which, from the current design, they don't seem to have done.

 

Still, it is the only really reliable option for those not eligible for retirement or marriage extension wishing to live here.

Good idea re pickup-dropoffs. They could easily organize a motosai service which goes around town picking up on say Mon, returning Fri. A TE member should suggest this to them.

 

I am not on TE yet but see the 20yr-1mil deal as a great way to a worry-free existence, even for those with retirement/marriage visa possibilities. It's a one and done deal. No more hassles and no more worrying about niggling little changes in requirements (see multiple 1000-long threads re retirement bank amounts/income). Get it and fuggedaboutit.

 

Plus, being shepherded through immigration like a VIP has its draw for frequent travelers.

[simon43]

My 5 year TE visa will expire this September, but I should be able to get an extra year by doing a visa run just before it expires.

 

Thereafter my plan, (if I can save up the $$$), is to buy a 20-year TE in September 2021.  That would see me through to 80 years old, and also give me 20 years to save up another 1 million baht to see me through to 100....

 

Why don't I get a retirement visa?  Because the TE visa is almost 'buy and forget', (except for the 90-day reports).  I have less than zero confidence that the 'retirement' visa rules and financial requirements will stay as they are - they will only get more stringent and the IOs more fussy and rude.

 

Nope - All I want is a quiet life in Thailand, with no visa hassles, good medical insurance, a pretty rural house and some nympho wench who forces me to perform all kinds of perverse sexual acts on demand.... (I haven't found that last item yet!)

[Caldera]

39 minutes ago, simon43 said:

My 5 year TE visa will expire this September, but I should be able to get an extra year by doing a visa run just before it expires.

 

Thereafter my plan, (if I can save up the $$$), is to buy a 20-year TE in September 2021.

So your membership will expire in September 2019, a visa run just before should take you to September 2020 and you plan to buy a new membership in September 2021.

 

What's your plan between September 2020 and September 2021? Am I missing something?

[BritManToo]

"some nympho wench who forces me to perform all kinds of perverse sexual acts on demand.... (I haven't found that last item yet!"

 

I found two, it was tiring and something I don't want to try a third time ........ too old now.

Also I'm not as broadminded as I thought.

Edited March 23, 2019 by BritManToo

[Thailand Outcast]

1 hour ago, simon43 said:

My 5 year TE visa will expire this September, but I should be able to get an extra year by doing a visa run just before it expires.

 

Thereafter my plan, (if I can save up the $$$), is to buy a 20-year TE in September 2021.  That would see me through to 80 years old, and also give me 20 years to save up another 1 million baht to see me through to 100....

 

Why don't I get a retirement visa?  Because the TE visa is almost 'buy and forget', (except for the 90-day reports).  I have less than zero confidence that the 'retirement' visa rules and financial requirements will stay as they are - they will only get more stringent and the IOs more fussy and rude.

 

Nope - All I want is a quiet life in Thailand, with no visa hassles, good medical insurance, a pretty rural house and some nympho wench who forces me to perform all kinds of perverse sexual acts on demand.... (I haven't found that last item yet!)

You have zero confidence in the retirement visa rules, which is understandable, but you have confidence that the Elite Card will still be honored, years after purchase.  Interesting.

Edited March 23, 2019 by Thailand Outcast

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Thailand Outcast said:

You zero confidence in the retirement visa rules, which is understandable, but you have confidence that the Elite Card will still be honored, years after purchase.  Interesting.

Yeah, I'd have similar concerns.

Things obviously have a much greater chance of going south in 20 years than 5 though.

[Thailand Outcast]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yeah, I'd have similar concerns.

Things obviously have a much greater chance of going south in 20 years than 5 though.

There would probably be 3 military coups in that 20 years.  ????

[Jingthing]

Just now, Thailand Outcast said:

There would probably be 3 military coups in that 20 years.  ????

Just three? You're quite the optimist. 

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, Thailand Outcast said:

You zero confidence in the retirement visa rules, which is understandable, but you have confidence that the Elite Card will still be honored, years after purchase. 

It has survived since 2003 when it was first started. Two coups and a government in 2009 that tried end but could not and it is still around.

Major changes were made to in 2012 that made it much better. Before those changes the visa only allowed 90 day entries. That is also when the 5 year memberships started.

 

 

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

It has survived since 2003 when it was first started. Two coups and a government in 2009 that tried end but could not and it is still around.

Major changes were made to in 2012 that made it much better. Before those changes the visa only allowed 90 day entries. That is also when the 5 year memberships started.

 

 

True that, but that isn't really exactly proof that a card you buy today will actually still be honored in the same way, visa-wise, in 20 years. What I'm getting at is there isn't any zero risk tactic, here or anywhere, maybe here more so considering the history of changes with other aspects of the visa system. 

 

I'm not saying don't do it. I'm considering a 5 year one myself. Only that people shouldn't kid themselves to believing that it's a risk free purchase. 

 

Also, it's completely impossible to quantify that risk. It can only be a guess. That is for people that accept there is some level of risk, even if very tiny. 

Edited March 23, 2019 by Jingthing

[simon43]

Quote

 

Am I missing something?
 

 

 

No you're not ???? It's my terrible maths - I meant September 2020 of course.

 

As to my confidence in the Elite visa longevity, I note as others have stated, that it has existed since 2003.  It's a 'cash for visa' agreement, and things in Thailand seem to work well when cash is offered.

 

The 'retirement' visa is not a cash-for-visa type.  Hence, it's more prone to government manipulation to try to extract some of the 800,000 baht that's being saved in the bank.

Edited March 23, 2019 by simon43

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, simon43 said:

Quote

 

Am I missing something?
 
No you're not [emoji846] It's my terrible maths - I meant September 2020 of course.
 
As to my confidence in the Elite visa longevity, I note as others have stated, that it has existed since 2003.  It's a 'cash for visa' agreement, and things in Thailand seem to work well when cash is offered.
 
The 'retirement' visa is not a cash-for-visa type.  Hence, it's more prone to government manipulation to try to extract some of the 800,000 baht that's being saved in the bank.

 

That's debatable. Don't ask for a refund.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

[rumak]

On 3/18/2019 at 1:16 PM, flyingsaucersarereal said:

So in my humble opinion once you leave the airport you can kiss that Thailand Elite feeling goodby because you are no longer special just a guy that spent a lot of cash.

 

Sincerely,

 

Annoyed Thailand Elite customer!

 

 

Edited Monday at 01:22 PM by flyingsaucersarereal

The fine print will get you every time  !!

[galt67]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

True that, but that isn't really exactly proof that a card you buy today will actually still be honored in the same way, visa-wise, in 20 years. What I'm getting at is there isn't any zero risk tactic, here or anywhere, maybe here more so considering the history of changes with other aspects of the visa system. 

 

I'm not saying don't do it. I'm considering a 5 year one myself. Only that people shouldn't kid themselves to believing that it's a risk free purchase. 

 

Also, it's completely impossible to quantify that risk. It can only be a guess. That is for people that accept there is some level of risk, even if very tiny. 

1

Yes, there IS a 'risk.'

 

And I have been warned multiple times, by multiple people, over the past 20 years about the 'risks' of traveling to Thailand, EG., coups, SARs, bird flu, tsunami, airport closure, etc.

 

Perhaps better for some to NEVER leave their home country, avoid ALL visa 'risks', and pretend they're leading 'risk-free lives.'

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rumak]

On 3/19/2019 at 11:47 PM, Jingthing said:

But it isn't a tax.

But if that rationalization works for you -- cool. 

There are lots of ways to think of it.

Maybe like a confiscatory bridge fare over a crocodile infested moat to enter a Medieval castle to then be "welcome" to stay for the number of years you bought, and then tossed back out when the time comes? 

every time i think of bill gates or some other guy with multiple billions of dollars.... or even many guys in Thailand that inherited their "hard earned riches", i realize that life ain't fair .   Then i put it into perspective and understand why the Thai people who see how easy it is for Foreigners to come and live here with seemingly endless funds , running around with thai ladies, might not think life is so fair either. Yes, there are lots of ways to think of it ( this being just one more)