Switching from bank method to income method

[JohnnyBD]

Hi Ubonjoe,

Instead of sending you a private message, I thought this question would interest others too, so I posted. I am currently using the 800k method for my extensions based on retirement. I will renew in Sep 2019 again using the 800k and was planning to ask IM the rules for switching to income method. I thought you may know already. Do you think I will need to keep 800k in the bank for 3 mths after my extension is approved and also keep 400k in the bank until my Sep 2020 extension is approved. I guess that would be the safest way. I will start my monthly transfers in Sep 2019, so I will have 12 months of transfers prior to my Sep 2020 renewal. What do you think?

Kind regards, JohnnyBD

Edited March 18, 2019 by JohnnyBD

[ubonjoe]

Your plans to change to the income option will not change the requirements to keep 800k/400k baht in the bank.

It is not defined yet what the punishment will be for not maintaining the funds in the bank will be but it appears your next extension application would not be accepted forcing you to leave the country to start all over again.

My suggestion would be to start sending the 65 baht into your account now and try to do the extension based upon income. Immigration offices should accept less than one year of income this year according to a directive sent to them.

[baggies666]

Phuket has already said they want full 12 months even though suppose to accept less this 1st year, so does this means if you dont have the time to make enough monthly payments or imm does not accept less months you have to keep both going and change on the following extension?

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, baggies666 said:

Phuket has already said they want full 12 months even though suppose to accept less this 1st year, so does this means if you dont have the time to make enough monthly payments or imm does not accept less months you have to keep both going and change on the following extension?

Phuket is already known for having odd requirements. Best to leave them out of the discussion unless you are living there. Also what they say may not really be what is done.

[baggies666]

I am living there, I am due next month and would only have 4 monthly payments so I think wont be able to change this extension

[Henryford]

Just out of interest how are you intending to "prove" your 65k comes from abroad each month.

Edited March 19, 2019 by Henryford

[ubonjoe]

46 minutes ago, baggies666 said:

I am living there, I am due next month and would only have 4 monthly payments so I think wont be able to change this extension

You should at least try. If you talk to one of the volunteers just ignore them and ask to talk to a supervisor to answer your questions.

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, Henryford said:

Just out of interest how are you intending to "prove" your 65k comes from abroad each month.

Bank statement showing international transfers or a bank book with a code that proves it was an international transfer.

[baggies666]

3 minutes ago, Henryford said:

Just out of interest how are you intending to "prove" your 65k comes from abroad each month.

The money has arrived fine 3 times already to bb with the correct codes so this part I am not worried about

 

@ubonjoe I will gather all the information and ask on extension so far only been able to talk to volunteer & read whats on website  thanks

[Tanoshi]

I have a slightly different opinion.

In 2020 you'll have to provide either proof of funds in the bank, or, an income of 65K monthly.

When you renew in Sept 2019, provided you then transfer 65K per month throughout the year, that will be accepted for the 2020 application.

Having to prove both, is not only a double whammy, but TI will probably extend again using the funds, because it's easier to check and your then stuck in a never ending circle.

The time to change method should be when renewing your extension this year.

 

Only your own Immigration office can confirm, as nothing covers this scenario in the orders.

[Thailand]

40 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

I have a slightly different opinion.

In 2020 you'll have to provide either proof of funds in the bank, or, an income of 65K monthly.

When you renew in Sept 2019, provided you then transfer 65K per month throughout the year, that will be accepted for the 2020 application.

Having to prove both, is not only a double whammy, but TI will probably extend again using the funds, because it's easier to check and your then stuck in a never ending circle.

The time to change method should be when renewing your extension this year.

 

Only your own Immigration office can confirm, as nothing covers this scenario in the orders.

It's what I will be looking at doing and all being well will have 6 months of qualifying income when renewal is due in September. This is in one of the northern problem offices. It will be the 17 consecutive extension of stay but the first attempt at using income from abroad.

 

 

[crazykopite]

I am going back to the multi entry visa that way I will leave the Kingdom every 90 days and take a mini break in neighbouring countries as I believe this is just the start , next year there will be further requirements I would rather spend the money than have it tied up in a Thai bank account when there is so much uncertainty ,the time has come for all of us to open our eyes and look to see what’s on the other side of the fence the pastures could be a lot greener and more welcoming.

 

[OJAS]

4 hours ago, baggies666 said:

The money has arrived fine 3 times already to bb with the correct codes so this part I am not worried about

If you're using TransferWise, though, you'll probably need to keep your fingers firmly crossed that the 4th transfer will be similarly coded. Strikes me that you'll already have more than enough on your plate in attempting to convince the rogue officers in Phuket without having an incorrect coding thrown into the mix!

[jesimps]

4 hours ago, baggies666 said:

The money has arrived fine 3 times already to bb with the correct codes so this part I am not worried about

 

@ubonjoe I will gather all the information and ask on extension so far only been able to talk to volunteer & read whats on website  thanks

Keep an eye on your BB statements, all my TW transfers were sent direct to them except for December's which went via TMB, so it isn't foolproof.

[happydays]

7 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Immigration offices should accept less than one year of income this year according to a directive sent to them.

Is a copy of the directive available to download?

[Tanoshi]

14 minutes ago, jesimps said:

Keep an eye on your BB statements, all my TW transfers were sent direct to them except for December's which went via TMB, so it isn't foolproof.

If your with BKK, TMB or Kasikorn, you can 'tag' the transfer to ensure it comes from the same partner branch.

[mtls2005]

18 minutes ago, happydays said:

Is a copy of the directive available to download?

It might be in this thread:

 

 

[JohnnyBD]

8 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Your plans to change to the income option will not change the requirements to keep 800k/400k baht in the bank.

It is not defined yet what the punishment will be for not maintaining the funds in the bank will be but it appears your next extension application would not be accepted forcing you to leave the country to start all over again.

My suggestion would be to start sending the 65 baht into your account now and try to do the extension based upon income. Immigration offices should accept less than one year of income this year according to a directive sent to them.

Thanks for the advice. I was trying to delay making anymore transfers right now as I have enough to live off of until Sep. My goal was to reduce the total amount I have here. So, I just need to decide whether to do option 1; stay on retirement 800k with the option of spending down 400k after 3 mths and not worry about making monthly transfers, or do option 2, start transfers now renewing with income method, then worry about spending down any excess afterwards, or option 3, switch to extension based on marriage with 400k in bank method where I only have to keep 400k in savings and can then spend down any excess and not have to make monthly transfers. The only issue is, I rent from a Leasing company and I'm not sure if they own my unit, so I don't know how hard it will be to get the proper paperwork from them for the marriage extension. I guess better to start making the 65k transfers now so I will have all options available to choose from in Sep. Thanks again...

[Pib]

2 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

If your with BKK, TMB or Kasikorn, you can 'tag' the transfer to ensure it comes from the same partner branch.

What do you mean by "tag" the transfer?  How do you tag?   

 

Sounds like you mean somehow asking/instructing Transferwise to use BKK as the partner bank since your account is with BKK. 

[Tanoshi]

2 minutes ago, Pib said:

What do you mean by "tag" the transfer?  How do you tag?   

 

Sounds like you mean somehow asking/instructing Transferwise to use BKK as the partner bank since your account is with BKK. 

Exactly. Transfer wise refer to it as 'tagging' the transaction.

 

Make the transfer from TW to KK, TMB, or BKK.

TW then send a 'reference' number.

Email their customer services with the reference number asking to ensure it's paid from their KK, TMB, or BKK account.

They 'tag' the transfer with your request.

Then make the transfer from your home bank to TW.

This will ensure the transfer is paid from their partner account matching your bank.

 

[scubascuba3]

Exactly. Transfer wise refer to it as 'tagging' the transaction.
 
Make the transfer from TW to KK, TMB, or BKK.
TW then send a 'reference' number.
Email their customer services with the reference number asking to ensure it's paid from their KK, TMB, or BKK account.
They 'tag' the transfer with your request.
Then make the transfer from your home bank to TW.
This will ensure the transfer is paid from their partner account matching your bank.
 

There can be a big delay in this process, maybe 24 hours + so not quite as simple as you state

[Pib]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

Exactly. Transfer wise refer to it as 'tagging' the transaction.

 

Make the transfer from TW to KK, TMB, or BKK.

TW then send a 'reference' number.

Email their customer services with the reference number asking to ensure it's paid from their KK, TMB, or BKK account.

They 'tag' the transfer with your request.

Then make the transfer from your home bank to TW.

This will ensure the transfer is paid from their partner account matching your bank.

 

 

Please further clarify "reference" number.  When I log onto my TW account and click on one of the TW transfers I have done and the click "View Transfer Details" up pops a windows that gives a summary of the transfer and at the top it has a "Transfer #" like Transfer # 239756.  But nothing saying "Reference."

 

Now I click Get PDF Receipt as the bottom of that popup window and it shows me the detailed receipt.  At the top it give that "Transfer #" again.  The only two places I see the word "reference" is one spot in the Sent To area but that just has my name in it since I'm sending to myself.  Then down are the bottom in the Paid Out From section it has a "Banking partner reference" number which is a 8 digit number.  Is that the number you are talking about....all my receipts don't have a number in that area. 

 

Just which "reference" number are you referring to.

 

Also, where you say, "Make the transfer from TW to KK, TMB, or BKK" and then "TW then send a 'reference' number," I'm not fully understanding what your are saying.   When a person makes a transfer to his Thai bank he can't initially choose which partner bank TW uses....TW makes that determination....it's not like they transfer to one of those banks and there it sets waiting for further transfer instructions.  And they don't really transfer any money form your funding bank to KK, TMB or BKK; instead, TW already has accounts with those bank full of baht which they use to do a domestic transfer.

 

Anyway, I still not fully understanding the "reference" number thing. 

   

 

[Pib]

Maybe you are talking when you "push" money to TW to pay for a transfer, like "wiring" them the money.

 

I see in below weblink TW gives a "reference number" you are suppose to use to ensure they know who the money is coming from when you wire/push money to them. If so, I expect a lot of folks do not push the money to TW to fund a transfer, but instead let TW "pull" the money. 

 

Like for me when doing a USD-THB transfer I use "ACH Debit" which does not mean use of a debit card but it pulls the money from my bank account via the ACH transfer system...I don't have to logon to my bank account and push/send money to TW as TW just pulls it from my US bank account.   Plus, in the US domestic wires usually costs around $20 whereas using ACH Debit is much cheaper.

 

https://transferwise.com/help/article/1662886/paying-by-bank-transfer/paying-by-bank-transfer

Edited March 19, 2019 by Pib

[Tanoshi]

26 minutes ago, Pib said:

 

Please further clarify "reference" number.  When I log onto my TW account and click on one of the TW transfers I have done and the click "View Transfer Details" up pops a windows that gives a summary of the transfer and at the top it has a "Transfer #" like Transfer # 239756.  But nothing saying "Reference."

 

Now I click Get PDF Receipt as the bottom of that popup window and it shows me the detailed receipt.  At the top it give that "Transfer #" again.  The only two places I see the word "reference" is one spot in the Sent To area but that just has my name in it since I'm sending to myself.  Then down are the bottom in the Paid Out From section it has a "Banking partner reference" number which is a 8 digit number.  Is that the number you are talking about....all my receipts don't have a number in that area. 

 

Just which "reference" number are you referring to.

 

Also, where you say, "Make the transfer from TW to KK, TMB, or BKK" and then "TW then send a 'reference' number," I'm not fully understanding what your are saying.   When a person makes a transfer to his Thai bank he can't initially choose which partner bank TW uses....TW makes that determination....it's not like they transfer to one of those banks and there it sets waiting for further transfer instructions.  And they don't really transfer any money form your funding bank to KK, TMB or BKK; instead, TW already has accounts with those bank full of baht which they use to do a domestic transfer.

 

Anyway, I still not fully understanding the "reference" number thing. 

   

 

When you initially apply to make a transfer from TW to a Thai bank, they supply a transfer number to include on the transfer details from your foreign bank to TW.

Full details from TW here: Transferwise to BKK..odt

 

[Pib]

4 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

When you initially apply to make a transfer from TW to a Thai bank, they supply a transfer number to include on the transfer details from your foreign bank to TW.

Full details from TW here: Transferwise to BKK..odt

 

OK, I'm no longer confused.....thanks for above doc which I partially quoted/cut and paste below so others can read right online. 

 

You are talking the case where a person initiates a TW transfer but does "not" immediately fund it like letting TW pull the money from your bank account when initiating the transfer.  Paying at the same time (i.e., letting TW pull the money) is how I fund my transfers since pushing the money to TW would require a domestic wire costing in the $20 ballpark.  

 

Thanks again....I understand now.  .

 

Quote

 

Thank you for your email and I hope you’re doing well.

Sorry for the delayed response due to high email volumes at this time.

You’re right, we have been receiving an increasing amount of contacts with regards to getting proof of an international transfer.

It is possible for us to route a transfer to be sent out via Bangkok Bank. However, this will need to be manually done at this time.

Once the transfer has been created, you’ll need to reach out to TransferWise and share the transfer number with us. We’ll then tag the transfer and notify our payment team to ensure that it gets sent out via Bangkok Bank.

To prevent the transfer from progressing before we are able to identify and tag it, it is best that you do not send us the deposit until we confirm that the transfer has been tagged.

I understand that this is tedious and are working on making things more automated.

 

 

 

[Pib]

And a possible problem I see with above method is unless you have a Bangkok Bank, K-bank, or TMB account....like say an account at SCB, Krungsri, KTB, etc., when the TW partner bank sends the money over to say a SCB, Krungsri, KTB account it may "not" end up with international coding. 

 

I say that because of the one TW transfers I did to my Krungsri account it was routed thru TMB and was reflected as a domestic transfer on my Krungsri account.   Now all my TW transfers to my Bangkok Bank account were coded FTT/International Transfer because Bangkok Bank was used as the partner bank....basically Bangkok Bank just needed to do an internal bank relay.  I've guess I've been lucky so far in all my TW transfers to Bangkok Bank that Bangkok Bank was the partner bank used.

 

And I'm not sure if that one transfer to Krungsri had come from Bangkok Bank instead of TMB that it would have been coded as an international transfer.   That would require the assumption Bangkok Bank, K-bank, and TMB does code such transfers as international regardless of where the relay the money.  Bbut TMB sure didn't for that transfer to my Krungsri account.   It quite possible Bangkok Bank only uses international coding when they are the partner bank and the person's account is also with Bangkok Bank.  

 

Would be interested in hearing from others who have say a K-bank account and when K-bank is the partner bank does the transfers get coded as international?  Ditto if having a TMB account and TMB is the partner bank.  

 

 

 

[Tanoshi]

10 minutes ago, Pib said:

And a possible problem I see with above method is unless you have a Bangkok Bank, K-bank, or TMB account....like say an account at SCB, Krungsri, KTB, etc., when the TW partner bank sends the money over to say a SCB, Krungsri, KTB account it may "not" end up with international coding. 

You must have either a TMB, KK, or BKK account for it to be coded as FTT (Passbook) or International (Bank statement) and then only if it's transferred from the corresponding TW account matching your bank.

It will always be coded as domestic if using alternative banks other than the above 3.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

21 minutes ago, Pib said:

And a possible problem I see with above method is unless you have a Bangkok Bank, K-bank, or TMB account....like say an account at SCB, Krungsri, KTB, etc., when the TW partner bank sends the money over to say a SCB, Krungsri, KTB account it may "not" end up with international coding. 

 

 

As I understand it, TFW's answer to incoming transfers that end up being deposited to some other Thai bank than their primary 3 is the person would take their receipt to the TFW partner bank's headquarters and ask them to issue a credit advice for the incoming foreign transfer that they routed to another Thai bank....

 

But whether the K-Bank and TMB headquarters are willing to do that, apart from BKKB HQ that apparently is, I don't know!

 

[Tanoshi]

5 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

As I understand it, TFW's answer to incoming transfers that end up being deposited to some other Thai bank than their primary 3 is the person would take their receipt to the TFW partner bank's headquarters and ask them to issue a credit advice for the incoming foreign transfer that they routed to another Thai bank....

 

But whether the K-Bank and TMB headquarters are willing to do that, apart from BKKB HQ that apparently is, I don't know!

 

Apart from issues with using TW, the fundamental problem is that transfers go through the HQ of the bank concerned and they transfer it to your local account. These are therefore coded as domestic in the passbook.

Only a bank statement will code it as International.

 

BKK is the exception where the source of transfer is notified to the local branch, so it's coded FTT in the passbook.

[scubascuba3]

Apart from issues with using TW, the fundamental problem is that transfers go through the HQ of the bank concerned and they transfer it to your local account. These are therefore coded as domestic in the passbook.
Only a bank statement will code it as International.
 
BKK is the exception where the source of transfer is notified to the local branch, so it's coded FTT in the passbook.

Kasikorn codes them as TFN05027-5030 which are Intl, BM Steve73 tested it