Expelled at BKK today

[Peterw42]

1 hour ago, Date Masamune said:

Another try with a more modern immigration management system it will succeed.

 

Sorry this is quite uninformed. There are many good jobs that allow various rotation schedules. Start with oil workers, consultants (me) the list goes on and on. And not just elite technical occupations I know a quite young guy who is tree surgeon/arborist in Scotland after the leaves fall he spends all winter in Thailand with his girlfriend. Seen him coming for several years.

 

 

51 minutes ago, dreaming said:

Most fly in fly out workers (mining, oil rigs etc) fall into that category. Nothing illegal with what they are doing.

 

There are plenty of guys in aus that fly straight from the mines to thailand for the 2 week rotation - dont even have a house in aus. Cheaper to stay in a hotel for 2 weeks then rent a house in aus permanently

 

Thats not "back to back" visits is it, its going somewhere to work then coming back.

[BritTim]

22 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

But if you have to sign that you have read and understand them, then your refusal to read them , then if denied at a later trip, you will have no reason to whine and moan about immigration

Many other persons entering the Kingdom neither read nor speak nor understand those two languages, and computer generated information sheets in a persons native tongue is the way to go

Where rules are official, there are cases where you are asked to sign them. For instance, the blacklisting rules for overstay have often been brought to people's attention, with people asked to sign them. Also, people coming visa exempt by land are often warned about the two-per-calendar-year rule. Immigration is not about to write down rules in any language that have not been officially agreed and announced. There is no official rule about how many visits with tourist visas are allowed, nor the total length of time you can be in Thailand as a "tourist". Further, nothing in the Immigration Act or Police Orders defines "tourism", except for a 2014 order on visa exempt entries (under control of immigration) that said they can be denied when used to stay too long as a tourist. [Interestingly, the prime minister intervened to state that even this rule on visa exempt entries should be applied "flexibly".] Probably, the Immigration Bureau wants such rules, but the Ministry of Foreign Affairs is unwilling to cede its control over issuing of visas, and the conditions for their use.

[ubonjoe]

I have just removed several off topic inflammatory post and replies to them.

No further notice will be given when post are removed.

[chrisinth]

40 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I get 90 day non-os, 4x a year = 8,000bht.

At the same time I have a week or two holiday, 10-20k, say 80k/year inc tickets.

5 years costs including 20 holidays = under 450,000bht 

 

Non-os + 20 holidays Vs 5 year Elite

Thanks, but I'll have the 20 holidays for less money.

On what basis do you get your Non-Os?

 

Are you on rotation work cycles?

[moe666]

Get a non 0 multiply entry come and go for one year. The days of being a permanent tourist in Thailand is over. Even the hardest of heads could see this coming over the last few years and now the crack down on illigal retirees has also affected the legal folks to no end. No one is special any more unless of course you have more money than Big Joke and do not mind passing it around

[BritManToo]

Just now, chrisinth said:

On what basis do you get your Non-Os?

Are you on rotation work cycles?

Looking after my children.

I haven't worked in nearly 20 years.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 hours ago, arithai12 said:

If the OP was 30days in/10 days out for 2 years (this is what I understand), it's normal that some IO would find a reason to object.

 

At some point, apparently, Immigration draws the line between being a repeat visitor/tourist vs someone basically living in Thailand on repeated, back to back visa exempt entries.

 

I'm kinda surprised the OP got away with it for two years running, considering the prevailing attitudes in Immigration these days.

 

I feel bad for the OP, but I really don't think the visa exempt entry mode was/is intended to facilitate that kind of travel into/staying in Thailand on a long-term, ongoing basis.

 

Back in my tourist days years ago, there were times when I probably made four visa exempt entries in the course of a year, each one for anywhere from one to three weeks, and then separated by a couple months back in the home country...   Would that same approach be accepted today?  I think so, but who knows!

 

 

 

 

Edited March 19, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[travelerjim]

6 hours ago, jacko45k said:

You said Visa on Arrival? Are you a US passport holder?

Likely you mean Visa Exempt entry, and receive 30 days stay.

You leave and return a week or so later, potentially over 10 times entering per year

Of course this (Visa Exempt) is strictly for  tourism purposes. You would be required to have a flight ticket out within the 30 days, and be able to show 10,000 baht or equivalent.

 

I doubt they believed you to be a tourist and you did well to manage this for 2 years.

Wrong...per reports....Thai immigration are asking for 20,000 Thai baht in cash or equivalent in cash.

[Suradit69]

6 hours ago, 1RDN said:

The Visa on arrival is (was) convenient. 

You were, apparently, being granted visa exempt entries, not visas on arrival.

 

6 hours ago, HiSoLowSoNoSo said:

Getting sillier by the minute here! They don't deserve any more visitors.

 

What's silly  is that if any farang complains, even though it's clear he's confused about even the most basic details and selective in what he reports, the Corps of Chronic Whiners immediately believe him completely.

[Peterbilt]

After reading this thread I got a bit nervous about my upcoming trip in May this year.
I'd like to stay 24 days on visa exemption.
The problem may be the history that the Immigrations database will bring up:
2015: 103 days in Thailand, 4 trips in total, 3 on VE and 1 on SETV
2016: 76 days in Thailand, 3 trips in total, 2 on VE and 1 on SETV
2017: 74 days in Thailand, 3 trips in total, 2 on VE and 1 on SETV
2018: 88 days in Thailand, 3 trips in total, 1 on VE and 2 on SETV
No back to back visa / VE, no overstay, no extension of VE/SETV, all SETV issued by an Thai embassy in Europe.
Left Thailand on December 1st, 2018.
There's also an unused SETV sticking in my passport. I wanted to fly to Thailand by February 28th, but Thai Airways did mess it up completely, so I had to cancel.

Male, white, 58, will be flying in business class with Finnair and using the BFS Premium Service.
May it be a good idea to have a fully flexible ticket back home in the pocket, just in case that the IO has a bad day or not yet reached his rejection quota?

Edited March 19, 2019 by Peterbilt

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, jackdd said:

If going to Thailand to visit the GF doesn't fall under toursim, then every year thousands of people enter Thailand illegally

Real tourism is visiting several, you specified singular. That's not tourism.

[Just Weird]

6 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I would say visa waiver on entry was exactly the way a foreigner should come and see his gf for a week or two.

Tourist VISA is for tourists.

But he did not do that "to see his girlfriend for a week or two", he's been doing it for years.

[jacko45k]

6 minutes ago, travelerjim said:

Wrong...per reports....Thai immigration are asking for 20,000 Thai baht in cash or equivalent in cash.

Agreed, 10,000 is old information.

 

[dcnx]

7 hours ago, Date Masamune said:

A proper visa??

He’s American. He’s allowed to come for 30 days VOA. That is a proper visa in that case.

[dreaming]

27 minutes ago, Peterbilt said:

After reading this thread I got a bit nervous about my upcoming trip in May this year.
I'd like to stay 24 days on visa exemption.
The problem may be the history that the Immigrations database will bring up:
2015: 103 days in Thailand, 4 trips in total, 3 on VE and 1 on SETV
2016: 76 days in Thailand, 3 trips in total, 2 on VE and 1 on SETV
2017: 74 days in Thailand, 3 trips in total, 2 on VE and 1 on SETV
2018: 88 days in Thailand, 3 trips in total, 1 on VE and 2 on SETV
No back to back visa / VE, no overstay, no extension of VE/SETV, all SETV issued by an Thai embassy in Europe.
Left Thailand on December 1st, 2018.
There's also an unused SETV sticking in my passport. I wanted to fly to Thailand by February 28th, but Thai Airways did mess it up completely, so I had to cancel.

Male, white, 58, will be flying in business class with Finnair and using the BFS Premium Service.
May it be a good idea to have a fully flexible ticket back home in the pocket, just in case that the IO has a bad day or not yet reached his rejection quota?

Business class is fully flexible.

[stevenl]

13 minutes ago, dcnx said:

He’s American. He’s allowed to come for 30 days VOA. That is a proper visa in that case.

No visa on arrival (VOA) for Americans, but visa exempt is available.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

17 minutes ago, dcnx said:

He’s American. He’s allowed to come for 30 days VOA. That is a proper visa in that case.

 

For Americans and others, it's visa exempt -- not visa on arrival.

 

The Chinese, among others, get visa on arrival.

 

[jspill]

39 minutes ago, Peterbilt said:

2015: 103 days in Thailand, 4 trips in total, 3 on VE and 1 on SETV
2016: 76 days in Thailand, 3 trips in total, 2 on VE and 1 on SETV
2017: 74 days in Thailand, 3 trips in total, 2 on VE and 1 on SETV
2018: 88 days in Thailand, 3 trips in total, 1 on VE and 2 on SETV
No back to back visa / VE, no overstay

That's nothing to worry about IMO, most people denied were approaching or over 180 days a year. 

 

It shows Thailand's folly, making genuine tourists like yourself worry. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

42 minutes ago, Peterbilt said:

After reading this thread I got a bit nervous about my upcoming trip in May this year.
I'd like to stay 24 days on visa exemption.
The problem may be the history that the Immigrations database will bring up:
2015: 103 days in Thailand, 4 trips in total, 3 on VE and 1 on SETV
2016: 76 days in Thailand, 3 trips in total, 2 on VE and 1 on SETV
2017: 74 days in Thailand, 3 trips in total, 2 on VE and 1 on SETV
2018: 88 days in Thailand, 3 trips in total, 1 on VE and 2 on SETV

 

Part of the problem with this is, AFAIK, there are no published or publicly known rules governing all those kinds of entries. Which means, depending on the Immigration officer you get, it could be fine, or you could be sent packing....  Not the best of circumstances.

 

I'd think, with the pattern you explained above, that it would be clear to Immigration that you're spending substantial time in your home country inbetween your various trips to Thailand, which ought to be evidence that you're not de facto living in Thailand....   But.... who knows these days.

 

 

[jspill]

2 hours ago, cerox said:

I have been using ED visas for almost 3 years - visa ends soon. My last visa exempt entry was before that so 3 years ago. I have never used a tourist visa.

 

In a few months (end of the current ED visa) period I will go to my home country for around 2 months and come back on a visa exempt entry to organize a normal visa again. How likely am I going to be denied entry?

 

Last time I left for 6 weeks within the visa with a re-entry permit but I did not want to pray again this time that they will ask why I went away so long within the school period. So I figured I would go out at the end of the visa period.

This might sound ridiculous to some here, but I just do not know a better solution for going out once a year. I do not want to buy elite card for 20 years in advance.

If you can organize a new Ed visa before you leave, take the paperwork with you when you go out, then fly to Laos / Malaysia when you come back, get the new Ed visa, and come in with it via land border, then no chance of getting denied. Ask your school if you can do another year. 

 

Often you need to get some document from immigration to say you've finished your current ed visa, before you leave, if you intend to come back in on visa exempt. I found this out when I got pulled aside at the Burma land border, they pointed out my ed visa was over and asked where my documents were to say I'd finished that course of study. I didn't have it, eventually they let me in with visa exempt but it was a close call. If it was at an airport they probably wouldn't have been as relaxed, and denied entry. So ask your school if you need to get that document.

 

If you're renewing to go onto another Ed visa, you don't need to get that document, my school said. So that's another benefit to trying to organize a new Ed visa before you leave. If it's not possible another option is to renew your passport when you go back home, then you can restart the process, 3 more years of Ed visas. 

[seancbk]

7 hours ago, 1RDN said:

You are referring to the tourist visa?

 

I have never decided to do a tourist visa because I have to return to the US or Europe for work every month. The Visa on arrival is (was) convenient. 

 

It's also free which means no income for the Thai government.   

You don't mention how many times you've come in on Visa Exempt (NOT a Visa on Arrival btw).   

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I'm trying to remember, wasn't there an Immigration rule/policy enforced for a period of time some years back about the maximum amount of time a person could stay in Thailand on visa exempt entries in any year???  That was enforced for a while, and then later supposedly dropped.

 

But I also feel like I've heard here, that some Immigration folks at the airports may still be unofficially using that as some kind of standard, at least in some cases...  Help me out, old timers????

 

[marke985]

13 minutes ago, jspill said:

 

 

It shows Thailand's folly, making genuine tourists like yourself worry. 

Best comment of the thread so far.  Absolutely true.

 

I'm in a similar position as the OP.  I have a US passport full of visa exempts and Tourist visas.  I was denied entry on Sunday night at Don Mueang around 1am arriving from Manila.  I had an idea this day was coming so paid close attention to the process in hope to contribute my experience on the forum.

 

The original immigration office studies my passport pretty extensively then clicked a button on the wall of his booth to the left.  It was this moment I was a little worried.  Eventually his superior came over and called me over to the left of the immigration counters where I was asked to take a seat.  The first people I spoke with struggled with English so they called a lady over who could communicate with me a little better.  She was really nice about it which I appreciated.

 

What I noticed was I was asked all the same questions I hear on this forum.  Asked why I come so often?  Do I work? Where does my money come from?  But truthfully, I noticed the entry denial/deport paperwork was already completed before I gave an answer making me believe there was no point in answering them at once I got moved from the immigration line to the immigration office.  I think you can only get yourself in more trouble at that point.

 

In the immigration office I was handed over to a younger fat guy who was also really nice.  We talked a bit, and he just suggested the Elite card if I had the money.  Then we talked a little finance and investments as he was introduced in crypto currencies.  He also told me he was new and just handled papers ect.  The other 3 old guys who basically were jerks to me as I was probably interrupting their youtube viewing on their phones.  I fear in time, the younger nice guy will get worn down and morph into the lifetime govt employee whos job is protected by seniority and doesn't care anymore.

 

Another observation I found interesting, the two nice staff I worked with were very helpful and answered most of my questions, but when I pressed them about what law did I break they went silent.  They mentioned something about I have been in Thailand for 220 days in the last year and I can't do that, I asked what law says that or show me that in writing.  To which they basically acted like they didn't hear me.  So I think they knew what they were doing but really didn't have a choice.

 

At least the AirAsia rep that was assigned to me allowed me to fly to Kuala Lumpur instead of back to Manila since there were no Airasia seats available to Manila the next day.  He told me the law states Airasia was responsible for me and the policy/not law is to send you back to where you came from but allowed me to break the policy due to no flights to Manila.  He also asked a lot of questions as he told me he sees a lot of people like me and does not agree with what immigration has been doing the last 15 months but the airline goes along with it out of concern to losing their airport rights to terminals.  He seemed pretty reliable and I believed what he was saying, unlike the immigration officers.  You could tell they were holding back and being careful about what they said.  (I have years of experience as a tax attorney in the US, so I have some experience with people not being totally honest.

 

But in conclusion, as I sit here in my over priced Angeles city hotel, I admit they broke me during that experience.  I sold some stocks last night and when the market opens tonight I will sell some more and get that 1,000,000 baht ready for the 20 year Thai Elite.  I wonder how long I will feel just dirty about the decision to give that amount of money to those old bastards that were jerks to me at the immigration office, but time will tell.  I still think it's better than going back home.  I have enough money to never work again if I live over here, but not back in the US.

 

Thanks to all who tolerated this long post.

[Kasane]

7 hours ago, Kf6vci said:

By keeping this up, tarrgeting the wrong people according to the OP's post - as he clearly can  a f f o r d these expensive flights... Thailand will lose expats to other countries. At some point, people have had enough! This will be an individual choice, of course.

 

 

I guess if farangs abuse the exempt/tourist visa of any country to stay long term in that country, they are likely to be caught and expelled at some time. Best to get the right long term stay visa if the intention is to stay long term. Otherwise its suspicious and/or abusive activity likely to result in expulsion. 

[Mavideol]

7 hours ago, worgeordie said:

Seems they don't need Farangs any more,especially as they

have plenty Russians,Chinese and coming soon plenty of

folks from the Sub Continent.

regards worgeordie

wait, let me get it straight, Russians and Chinese are not Farangs? I thought ALL NON Thai were Farangs, since when they changed status add to that the RICH Indians

[RJRS1301]

1 minute ago, Mavideol said:

wait, let me get it straight, Russians and Chinese are not Farangs? I thought ALL NON Thai were Farangs, since when they changed status add to that the RICH Indians

I think Farang applies to westerners?

Please correct me if I am wrong 

[Mavideol]

1 minute ago, RJRS1301 said:

I think Farang applies to westerners?

Please correct me if I am wrong 

matter of interpretation, it could apply to westerners or to anybody not Thai... previous discussion on the matter didn't came to an agreement.... the origin of the word means something else but in my post had the simple purpose of a joke, irrelevant to discussions

[BritManToo]

7 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

I think Farang applies to westerners?

Please correct me if I am wrong 

Caucasian (or part) folk only, Thai or foreigner.

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, Peterbilt said:

After reading this thread I got a bit nervous about my upcoming trip in May this year.
I'd like to stay 24 days on visa exemption.
The problem may be the history that the Immigrations database will bring up:
2015: 103 days in Thailand, 4 trips in total, 3 on VE and 1 on SETV
2016: 76 days in Thailand, 3 trips in total, 2 on VE and 1 on SETV
2017: 74 days in Thailand, 3 trips in total, 2 on VE and 1 on SETV
2018: 88 days in Thailand, 3 trips in total, 1 on VE and 2 on SETV
No back to back visa / VE, no overstay, no extension of VE/SETV, all SETV issued by an Thai embassy in Europe.
Left Thailand on December 1st, 2018.
There's also an unused SETV sticking in my passport. I wanted to fly to Thailand by February 28th, but Thai Airways did mess it up completely, so I had to cancel.

Male, white, 58, will be flying in business class with Finnair and using the BFS Premium Service.
May it be a good idea to have a fully flexible ticket back home in the pocket, just in case that the IO has a bad day or not yet reached his rejection quota?

My gut feel is that you would be OK entering with an actual tourist visa with that history. Entering visa exempt would be risky. The immigration official is going to get the notification that you have 5+ visa exempt entries since around the middle of 2015 which qualifies you for enhanced scrutiny. There seems plenty of evidence that you are denied entry visa exempt much more readily than when using a visa.

 

Absolute security would be flying to, say, Vientiane, entering by land, and taking a domestic flight from, say, Udon Thani (less than an hour from the Thai border after entering from Vientiane). That is obviously a real hassle.

[BritManToo]

11 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

wait, let me get it straight, Russians and Chinese are not Farangs? I thought ALL NON Thai were Farangs, since when they changed status add to that the RICH Indians

Chinese are 'Jin', Russians would be named depending on their diverse ethnic background.

Edited March 19, 2019 by BritManToo