No Embassy proof of pension letter

[yosib157]

My local Immigration Office are confused about how to process my non-O visa using the 65,000/month system.

 

I have already provided bank book and photostats of every page and a print out from my TransferWise account. They are saying their 'new boss' requires a full year's income which I have already provided but trying to convince them there is an agreement that only 3 months for this year is required as it has just been introduced.

Anyway, they've kept copies of everything to calculate overnight and I need to return tomorrow. For years I've had the extension in my passport and home within an hour --- using the UK embassy letter.  

 

So, can somebody please give me a link to the Immigration statement giving the ''official'' guidelines as to what is now required. I can then print it and take it along tomorrow and keep in my file to use only if required. 

 

thanks

[Maestro]

The confirmation letter of the bank is missing.

 

What immigration office are you dealing with?

[yosib157]

1 minute ago, Maestro said:

The confirmation letter of the bank is missing.

 

What immigration office are you dealing with?

Yes, I know, and therein lies the problem. They don't know what to tell me to ask the bank for as, unfortunately as nobody foresaw the Embassies changing, I only had my bank updated every 6 months or so and my bank entered one lump sum for that whole period ergo the confusion

Next week I'll be changing banks and have the book updated monthly after each transfer.

Nakhon Phanom by the way.

 

[ubonjoe]

You need to request a bank statement for the past 12 months at your bank. There will be a fee for it may have to be sent from the main office in Bangkok.

The letter only needs to verify you account and that is valid.

[nasa123]

[yosib157]

8 minutes ago, nasa123 said:

That's the one; thanks indeed.

[nasa123]

28 minutes ago, nasa123 said:

2019-03-19 16.38.09.pdf

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

48 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You need to request a bank statement for the past 12 months at your bank. There will be a fee for it may have to be sent from the main office in Bangkok.

The letter only needs to verify you account and that is valid.

 

Joe, for monthly foreign transfer income compliance for a retirement extension, isn't it also advisable to ask the bank for the foreign credit advice entries/statements of the person's various foreign bank to Thai bank deposits?

 

Especially since the OP is talking about Transferwise transfers where the bank book or bank statement entries may or may not clearly show the foreign source of the transfers.

 

Edited March 19, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Joe, for monthly foreign transfer income compliance for a retirement extension, isn't it also advisable to ask the bank for the credit advice entries/statements of the person's various foreign bank to Thai bank deposits?

Those should not be needed if the transfers are shown as international transfers on the bank statement.

I think it would be a bit of overkill to get one for each transfer. Another 12 bits of paper for immigration to look at.

7 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Especially since the OP is talking about Transferwise transfers where the bank book entries may or may not clearly show the foreign source of the transfers.

That complicates things even more if the transfers are not shown as international transfers on the bank statement. Not sure if immigration would accept something from transferwise to prove it came from abroad.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Those should not be needed if the transfers are shown as international transfers on the bank statement.

I think it would be a bit of overkill to get one for each transfer. Another 12 bits of paper for immigration to look at.

That complicates things even more if the transfers are not shown as international transfers on the bank statement. Not sure if immigration would accept something from transferwise to prove it came from abroad.

 

Joe, from what I've seen of some of the actual bank letters people have been getting lately and been posted in some of the threads here, the banks are basically summarizing the person's incoming foreign transfers as line items on a one or two page sheet.  The account holder of course could get the full blown credit advice statements like Sheryl has shared here before. But the summary version seems to be what the banks are doing for this now for people who need to show incoming monthly foreign deposits.

 

Between bringing a pile of Transferwise printouts vs. having a one or two page letter from my Thai bank certifying a list of incoming deposits as being foreign source along with the dates and the amounts, I'd choose the latter every time as far as what I'd want to be showing to Thai Immigration.

 

In this regard, I always operate from the basic "better safe than sorry" mode. And as you know, the traditional, prior balance only style of Thai bank letters didn't deal with foreign deposits at all, and instead were just verifying account balance and ownership.  But that's not what Immigration is looking for when it comes to proving monthly foreign bank deposits.

 

And if it's not crystal clear from the bank book/statement entries perhaps because of Transferwise and/or as the OP mentioned not having regularly updated his bankbook and thus ended up with some summary entries, Immigration I'd imagine is going to want something else.

 

 

 

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Joe, from what I've seen of some of the actual bank letters people have been getting lately and been posted in some of the threads here, the banks are basically summarizing the person's incoming foreign transfers as line items on a one or two page sheet. 

I have read about that could possibley be done but I have not seen a copy of one.

9 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Between bringing a pile of Transferwise printouts vs. having a one or two page letter from my Thai bank certifying a list of incoming deposits as being foreign source along with the dates and the amounts, I'd choose the latter every time as far as what I'd want to be showing to Thai Immigration.

No sure how the bank could firm the transfers unless they were done directly to that bank by transferwise.

There have been so many topics about them the it is hard figure out what can be done..

11 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

In this regard, I always operate from the basic "better safe than sorry" mode. And as you know, the traditional, prior balance only style of Thai bank letters didn't deal with foreign deposits at all, and instead were just verifying account balance and ownership.  But that's not what Immigration is looking for when it comes to proving monthly foreign bank deposits.

There has been at least one report of a basic bank letter and bank statements being accepted. I think that is really all that immigration will be wanting since that is what it says in the amendment to the police order.

I personally am of the opinion it is best to keep the amount of paper given to immigration a small as possible.

If people really want to prepare for the extension application they should be transferring the funds directly into a bank account at a bank that receives SWIFT transfers without it going through another bank.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Glad to oblige!

 

For the OP and Joe, this below is an example of the kind of foreign transfer summary letter the Thai banks can prepare for Immigration.

 

 

 

Re Pib's comment above, I think it's an open question of whether the summary letter alone would suffice, or whether Immigration would want to see all the individual credit advice letters. But no harm in getting them when getting the summary letter, just in case.

 

As Pib's example above from BKKB shows, the summary letter basically only shows four columns of info going across after certifying what's to follow is all foreign transfers:

 

--date of the transfer

--original currency sent

--amount in original currency

--amount in Thai baht.

 

Edited March 19, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

For the OP and Joe, this below is an example of the kind of foreign transfer summary letter the Thai banks can prepare for Immigration.

I can recall that post  but I am not sure everybody will be able to get one like that since they will not be going to the banks main office in Bangkok to get it.

I think if you go into a local branch they will not be able to do one or even request a letter similar to it from Bangkok,

I believe in the KISS principle if possible.

Not sure but immigration may accept my bank book that shows about 18 months of transfers with a FTT code on every one of them now. When I apply for my extension will have over two years of them in it.

[lucky2008]

Without something in writing from the embassy it's seems that the confirmation letters, statements, and credit advices will not suffice. In my case they didnt work, and I had all the documents exactly the same as Pib provided on previous posts. 

 

You can try to prove to the IO the source of your monthy income/ pension, but you will always be at the mercy of the IO.

 

Seems that Immigration does not want to deal with the different income scenarios.  Eventually it's going to come down to the 400/800 method. Either you have the cash or you don't. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

30 minutes ago, lucky2008 said:

Without something in writing from the embassy it's seems that the confirmation letters, statements, and credit advices will not suffice. In my case they didnt work, and I had all the documents exactly the same as Pib provided on previous posts. 

 

You can try to prove to the IO the source of your monthy income/ pension, but you will always be at the mercy of the IO.

 

Seems that Immigration does not want to deal with the different income scenarios.  Eventually it's going to come down to the 400/800 method. Either you have the cash or you don't. 

 

If the Embassy of any particular applicant is still issuing Income affidavits/letters, then Immigration wants that.

 

And ONLY if the applicant's country/Embassy is NOT issuing income letters anymore, then the monthly foreign bank deposits method and its associated documents can come into play.

 

That appears to be the way the various Immigration offices are handling the new regimen.

 

 

Edited March 19, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

53 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I can recall that post  but I am not sure everybody will be able to get one like that since they will not be going to the banks main office in Bangkok to get it.

 

 

Well, at least in my experience, that's not the case. At the same time that content was bubbling in the other thread, I went and checked with my local BKK Bank Branch (a mall branch) in BKK. And the local branch assured me they could issue that type of letter without having to bring the main office into it, and they locally had access to up to 5 years or so of back foreign transfer data if needed.

 

Now, that was my BKKB branch in BKK. Whether that same ability applies to other banks other than BKKB or to branches outside BKK, I can't say. From Sheryl's separate experience on this with a different bank (Kasikorn I think), she seems to be able to get credit advice letters from her local branch, provided she requests them not too long after the actual transaction occurs.

 

The way the BKKB staff that both Pib and I explained it, BKKB at least was gonna charge 100 baht for the summary letter and then 100 baht per detailed credit advice, up to a maximum of 500 baht. So the whole deal for a letter and a year's worth of credit advice details was gonna run 600 baht.

 

BTW, the mockup letter that my BKKB branch showed me when we got into that discussion, they said, was a very similar or even repurposed version of the letters the banks have used for years to certify incoming foreign currency transfers leading to condo purchases and such.

 

 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

Not sure but immigration may accept my bank book that shows about 18 months of transfers with a FTT code on every one of them now. When I apply for my extension will have over two years of them in it.

 

Joe, it will be interesting to see and hear as more monthly foreign transfer applicant reports trickle in....

 

a. whether Immigration offices will settle for your style of just a generic bank account confirmation letter combined with bank statements or passbook copies showing FTT entries.

 

or

 

b. whether Immigration broadly is going to start demanding actual foreign transfer confirmation letters from the Thai banks in addition to and/or in lieu of clear FTT entries on bank passbooks and statements.

 

From what I can tell, we don't really have much of a clear answer on that point as yet.

 

Plus, it seems from the posts here, that a lot of people who find themselves headed for the monthly foreign deposits method from the no Income letter countries have been relying on Transferwise transfers to their various banks, and not always getting the official FTT status entries on those.

 

BTW, here's the other thread where Pib, I and others got into the details of that subject:

 

 

And part of my summary regarding my conversation with my BKKB branch:

 

Quote

 

3a. According to this staff member, her branch could provide me individual or collective credit advice info for my account going back up to the past 5 years or so... She said I could get this info from her/the branch, and I didn't have to make a request to or involve the BKK Bank head office.

 

3b. As for the fees for that, she indicated any credit advice from any transaction in the past 6 months would be free/no charge. Anything further back than 6 months would incur a 100 baht per credit advice fee, capped at a maximum of 500 per request. So in other words, she seemed to be saying, if I needed those documented now, in retrospect, for the first 6 months of 2018, I'd be facing a 500 baht fee [plus 100 baht for the summary bank letter itself].

 

 

 

Edited March 19, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

BTW, there was also a separate thread lately where one member posted a response from Transferwise customer service explaining a method they've set up whereby people sending money can make a specific request to Transferwise that it route the funds through BKKB (preferably into a BKKB account), and presumably then almost always avoid the problem that other banks don't code Transferwise transfers with the key FTT code.  That kind of bank specific routing wasn't something TFW was apparently able to do earlier in this whole debacle, but apparently they've been hearing a lot from anxious Thailand expats lately.

 

Won't help for the past, but may help for the future. Here's the explanation of that:

 

 

Part of the Transferwise response quoted in that thread includes the following:

 

Quote

We also recently received an update from Bangkok Bank that they can issue a Confirmation Letter of International Funds Transfer from Bangkok Bank for the purpose of purchasing a condominium or getting a retirement Visa.

 

 

And that appears to fit with what I mentioned earlier of my BKKB branch showing me a mock up letter for Immigration that they said was basically similar to what they were already issuing for condo purchase foreign funds transfers.

 

Also, the Transferwise response specifically mentions that if their foreign funds transfer ends up getting routed thru BKKB into some other NON-BKKB account, then the recipient WOULD need to contact the BKKB head office about getting them to issue a credit advice for those transactions that only passed thru BKKB but didn't actually go into BKKB accounts.

 

Quote

For non- Bangkok Bank recipients, you’ll will need to, contact Bangkok Bank head office to issue A Confirmation Letter of International Funds Transfer. (Instead of a Bangkok Bank savings passbook / statement you’ll need to provide the credit receipt of your bank)

 

 

Edited March 19, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

5 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

BTW, there was also a separate thread lately where one member posted a response from Transferwise customer service explaining a method they've set up whereby people sending money can make a specific request to Transferwise that it route the funds through BKKB, and presumably then almost always avoid the problem that other banks don't code Transferwise transfers with the key FTT code.  That kind of bank specific routing wasn't something TFW was apparently able to do earlier in this whole debacle, but apparently they've been hearing a lot from anxious Thailand expats lately.

 

Tanoshi just posted some info on how to do it....ensure your Transferwise deposit going to a Bangkok Bank acct always get coded FTT.  And it "might" work for others.  See below post and ensuring one.s

 

 

[lucky2008]

25 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

If the Embassy of any particular applicant is still issuing Income affidavits/letters, then Immigration wants that.

 

And ONLY if the applicant's country/Embassy is NOT issuing income letters anymore, then the monthly foreign bank deposits method and its associated documents can come into play.

 

That appears to be the way the various Immigration offices are handling the new regimen.

 

 

I've seen one post of someone successfully using the foreign bank deposit method for retirement extension without affidavit, but has there been any reports on a successful extension renewal with someone using the "income" method where the funds are not coming from a pension, social security, or disability AND they have no embassy affidavit/letter? 

 

Let's say someone says their income comes from a rental property or stock investments for example. If the applicants embassy is no longer issuing these affidavits/letters, it seems to me those people are going to be at the mercy of the IOs don't you think? 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

9 minutes ago, lucky2008 said:

 

I've seen one post of someone successfully using the foreign bank deposit method for retirement extension without affidavit, but has there been any reports on a successful extension renewal with someone using the "income" method where the funds are not coming from a pension, social security, or disability AND they have no embassy affidavit/letter? 

 

Let's say someone says their income comes from a rental property or stock investments for example. If the applicants embassy is no longer issuing these affidavits/letters, it seems to me those people are going to be at the mercy of the IOs don't you think? 

 

 

Without an embassy income affidavit, someone applying on the basis of monthly income simply has to show the 65K being deposited monthly into a Thai bank account, using the Thai bank's incoming transfer records (passbook, bank statements, credit advice letters) as documentation.  The source of the funds leading to those 65K transfers is pretty much irrelevant to the Thai banks documenting the foreign transfers.

 

If someone only has an income affidavit, different Immigration offices have been known to ask for source backup documents for that income at times.

 

But I haven't heard of anyone presenting incoming foreign transfer records from the Thai banks and then Immigration demanding to know the source of those funds in THAT context.

 

 

Edited March 19, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[yosib157]

OK guys; thanks for all the info even those following #7 who gave me the actual information I initially requested. Hopefully all the rest will be of use to others in the future.

Since my original posting, the local office have phoned saying all I now need is the bank's confirmation letter. 18 years and 4 different visas with the same Immigration Office dictates that before going to the bank, I will stop off and ask them to write in Thai language exactly what they require from them. Thanachart do show TransferWise as an

International transfer --- at least here they do but, as with Immigration Offices, they all appear to do it differently.

 

Hopefully tomorrow I can post a successful result.

[lucky2008]

18 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

 

But I haven't heard of anyone presenting incoming foreign transfer records from the Thai banks and then Immigration demanding to know the source of those funds in THAT context.

 

 

I'm my case they straight out denied my foreign transfer records. I had my financial documents down to a T with monthly income over 75k per month for 12 months straight, but I was doing the extension based on marriage not retirement. IO said she wanted to see 400k in my account which I didn't have. 

 

Next day I went back with an embassy affidavit. No questions asked and my application was processed. 

 

Seems to me the people that can no longer get the affidavit have it easy. First they no longer need to go to their embassy, and second they don't need to prove to anyone where the source of funds comes from. 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 minutes ago, lucky2008 said:

I'm my case they straight out denied my foreign transfer records. I had my financial documents down to a T with monthly income over 75k per month for 12 months straight, but I was doing the extension based on marriage not retirement. IO said she wanted to see 400k in my account which I didn't have. 

 

Next day I went back with an embassy affidavit. No questions asked and my application was processed. 

 

 

Now you're pulling me out of my area of knowledge. But I thought, when the four countries ceased issuing income letters, that the foreign bank deposits method that Immigration came up with was only applicable to retirement extensions, and not to marriage extension applications. Which would explain why Immigration turned back your monthly income documents.

 

Also, as I mentioned above, my understanding is that Immigration is ONLY accepting foreign bank transfer documents from applicants whose countries are no longer issuing income affidavits. If your country's Embassy is still issuing the income letters for retirement or marriage extensions, that's what Immigration wants to see if applying on the basis of income.

 

Edited March 19, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

One example of how you don't get to pick and choose which method of income documentation you prefer.

 

 

 

Edited March 19, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[yosib157]

These reports are great for others users to learn from. However this one reinforces why the embassies have stopped issuing the affidavits. But the UK ones never actually showed the money coming into Thailand only that they were potential incomes.

I wonder what all these Bangkok residing civil servants do all day as in recent years they have farmed out UK visa apps, passport renewals and now refuse to issue these letters.

[lucky2008]

5 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Now you're pulling me out of my area of knowledge. But I thought, when the four countries ceased issuing income letters, that the foreign bank deposits method that Immigration came up with was only applicable to retirement extensions, and not to marriage extension applications. Which would explain why Immigration turned back your monthly income documents.

 

Also, as I mentioned above, my understanding is that Immigration is ONLY accepting foreign bank transfer documents from applicants whose countries are no longer issuing income affidavits. If your country's Embassy is still issuing the income letters for retirement or marriage extensions, that's what Immigration wants to see if applying on the basis of income.

 

This entire process is totally insane with the IO's bending the laws however they please. 

 

I'm waiting to see a post on someone doing their one year extension based on marriage with the 40k income method and no affidavit. 

[marcusarelus]

17 minutes ago, lucky2008 said:

I'm my case they straight out denied my foreign transfer records. I had my financial documents down to a T with monthly income over 75k per month for 12 months straight, but I was doing the extension based on marriage not retirement. IO said she wanted to see 400k in my account which I didn't have. 

 

Next day I went back with an embassy affidavit. No questions asked and my application was processed. 

 

Seems to me the people that can no longer get the affidavit have it easy. First they no longer need to go to their embassy, and second they don't need to prove to anyone where the source of funds comes from. 

 

When did you apply?  What office? 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I can recall that post  but I am not sure everybody will be able to get one like that since they will not be going to the banks main office in Bangkok to get it.

I think if you go into a local branch they will not be able to do one or even request a letter similar to it from Bangkok,

 

Joe, here's another recent post from an upcountry member indicating his local BKKB branch was willing and able to provide the credit advice letter locally instead of forcing him to go to the head office.

 

[lucky2008]

One thing I did learn with Bangkok Bank is that is you don't update you Bangkok Bank passbook between international incoming transfers (FTT), and have more than 30 transactions between each transfer, when you finally decide to update your pass book the past FTT transfers will not show in the pass book.  

 

I was also told they were only able to see FTT transfers in their system for the previous 6 months. They said if I wanted anything further back I need to get a 12 month statement from the head office in Bangkok. They would then and only then be able to provide me with the complete  print out for every FTT I made last year. I'm my case I had about 18 in total starting from January 2018. 

 

I guess if you have your passbook updated frequently, and every FTT transaction showing, your local branch should be able to print up the Credit Advice locally.