Health Advisory

[lotus eater]

The gov't needs to make people stop burning their garbage/fields. They have to sort this out.

Almost all the fields north of CM were burned several months ago and are now green with new crops so the current problem is most likely not from field burning. Trash continues to be a problem and there are a lot of fires in the forests in the region.

I drove yesterday to and from Mae Sai and I saw countless places and acres of blackened - in some cases still burning - fields and patches at the roadside and futher within eyesight. I can only presume that there was much more of this further away.

[lannarebirth]

Another idea how to set an example as farang: design houses that don't need aircon. That will be easy to follow by the Thai.

Don't use aircon, except when it's necessary (i.e. for sleeping). . . . .

I think these are good ideas, but what is the connection between them and the dirty air problem?

Presumably by reducing demand for electricity, and hence pollution, from power-generation.

Does any of our local power come from clean sources, such as hydro-electric, or is it all from brown-coal-powered and deisel-generators ? Anyone know ??

Much of Thailand's power comes from Lao and Burmese hydroelectric dams. I wouldn't call it clean power as they've absolutely destroyed the ecosystems of their rivers to get it.

[lannarebirth]

Today's data is in. It's a little better, just like I already thought this morning when i could JUST make out a faint outline of the mountain.

But still 'unhealthful'.

Much better today than any day for a week or more. Just a light breeze carried a considerable amount of smoke away. HUGE grass fire today out at the army base in Mae Rim.

[sabaijai]

Today's data is in. It's a little better, just like I already thought this morning when i could JUST make out a faint outline of the mountain.

But still 'unhealthful'.

Much better today than any day for a week or more. Just a light breeze carried a considerable amount of smoke away. HUGE grass fire today out at the army base in Mae Rim.

Yes much better today. Two huge grass fires near Wat Umong today, if the fire dept hadn't come I think a few neighbourhood homes might have gone up.

[el jefe]

You can't blame the farmers and the hill-tribe people for all the burning. It's the gov't too, or at least it's some govt controlled agency. I was on the Mae Sa road today and there were 3 groups of workers burning the dead vegetation on the hillsides. There was a big yellow truck with each group of workers. The trucks all had some type of gov't insignia, but I can't read Thai so I can't be sure who is responsible. There not burning these hillsides to plant anything there either.

So who is doing it and why??

[nikster]

Well, the source of the Bangkok pollution and Chiang Mai's is different. Bangkok was able to reduce their pollution through skytrains. subways and keeping large trucks off the road till evening time. The vast majority of the pollution you see here in Chiamg mai is caused by controlled burns of forests and agricultural fields. "Northern people" love to burn. I think there have been some rules handed down pertaining to this, and they have gone largely ignored. The queen has curtailed her visits to Chiang mai due to the smoke. She has made her wishes known about abating it, and that helps for awhile, but they soon go right back to their old habits. I think we'll see a constructive crackdown on this practice in the next year or so as important people have made and continue to make serious investments in the north now.

burning trash is illegal but no one cares about it.

the problem is that there is no trash service or if there is, it's expensive. my village in the north is pretty progressive to have public trash bins and a system where you have to buy city trash bags. but the trash bags are expensive 6 Baht for not such a big bag. and the neighbors are thinking - heck why should we do that, we just keep burning like we always have and save ourselves some cash at the same time! these guys burn plastic no problems. no need to go to the police either because guess what, everyone's doing it. farangs and resident BKK thais are the only exceptions.

second - the hills around here are all on fire. you have to imagine that this is happening everywhere in the north, and in burma and laos. all hills, all on fire. the entire north is one big forest fire.

i think it would be easier to curb that because surely everyone must know who sets these fires - villages? - as they are controlled burns and very effective too. there are never any accidents and never any big fatal fires because the underbrush is burned away every year. so whoever is doing this, they have been doing it forever and they are absolute experts.

however, don't know what else to put in place for fire control - surely putting proper fire trucks all over the north would take years and be very expensive, etc....

[p1p]

It is all so stupid. Recycling is so easy here.

We keep all our trash and sell most of it to the recycling trader who comes round at irregular intervals, about once per month. He takes plastic, glass, metal, paper and cardboard and all old and broken electrical appliances, furniture, toys etc. Almost the only thing we don't sell is the food or wet waste, which all goes on the compost heap with a generous watering of E M and handful of worms to help it decompose.

[cdnvic]

You can't blame the farmers and the hill-tribe people for all the burning. It's the gov't too, or at least it's some govt controlled agency. I was on the Mae Sa road today and there were 3 groups of workers burning the dead vegetation on the hillsides. There was a big yellow truck with each group of workers. The trucks all had some type of gov't insignia, but I can't read Thai so I can't be sure who is responsible. There not burning these hillsides to plant anything there either.

So who is doing it and why??

This could be preventative controlled burns in areas where the fire risk has escalated because of a lot of dry vegetation.

[Macx]

Can anyone give us some more sensory details of what it's like in CM?

How does it compare to the smoke from Indonesia/Borneo two years back when it went all the way up to Phuket?

I was in southern Thailand and remembered that it was so bad I had to close all the windows and doors and run the aircon all day and night. And still I smelled smoke inside my home. It was hazy for weeks. Black ash-like dust everywhere. The haze lasted weeks. My allegeries became unbearable and I flew to BKK for some fresh air!!!

[cdnvic]

Bangkok is actually not a bad place for air I find. Maybe that's just because I compare it to the chunky air in Chiangmai, but other than at street level in rush hour I find Bangkok's air quite clean. Maybe it's the seabreeze and the flat ground that does it.

[chanchao]

Can anyone give us some more sensory details of what it's like in CM?

How does it compare to the smoke from Indonesia/Borneo two years back when it went all the way up to Phuket?

I was in southern Thailand and remembered that it was so bad I had to close all the windows and doors and run the aircon all day and night. And still I smelled smoke inside my home. It was hazy for weeks. Black ash-like dust everywhere. The haze lasted weeks. My allegeries became unbearable and I flew to BKK for some fresh air!!!

It's not THAT bad. I rememberbeing in Sumatra once, Padang I believe, and that was completely ridiculous, it honestly discouraged you from breathing. In Chiang Mai right now it's just very very hazy. I'll take some more pictures today.

[ProThaiExpat]

Topographically, Chiang Mai is very much like Los Angeles, surrounded by mountains that create an "inversion layer", in effect a blanket of dense air that keeps the pollution from moving away from the basin.

30 years ago or more, LA started an Air Quality Control District with full time policemen to enforce very strict rules, including the most drastic smog control rules regarding auto emisions. Catalytic converters on all cars, annual vehicle inspections, etc.

Massive amounts of money was spent on air pollution control monitors to detect violators, etc. Yes it worked after some twenty years and LA today has excellent air. However, the money and effort that went into the job seems just too great to occur in Chiang Mai in the forseeable future.

Law enforcement must be present on all levels before the neighbor farmer gets the message, and I just don't see it happening in the next 50 years in Chiang Mai where traffic law enforcement is next to non-existent.

On balance, my guess is that Chiang Mai has the bad air pollution for about three months at most. In LA, they had the problem year round as they have no rainy season. So the quesiton is, on balance, is massive enforcement of existing air polluton laws and the cost thereof justified if the problem exists for only a few months a year?

Palm Springs, two hours outside LA has some limited pollution generated locally due to dust and wind, however, it remains a major resort with a high season. In the summer, teperatures reach 120F and humidity at 80%. Unbearable and few go out of their airconditioned homes during July and August. Most leave town for the summer. 20 years ago most department stores closed for the summer months.

As a former resident, we accepted the two or three months of unbearable outside temperature and humidity conditions as the price we paid for living there. Granted there was nothing that could be done about it.

My view is that without much hope of a change in Chiang Mai's air pollution problem in the offing, we make the choice of staying in doors for a few months a year with the air conditioning/air filters running as the price of living here, or plan our vacations or vists to second homes during March, April and parts of May every year as rsidents of Palm Springs do.

Five years ago I moved to Chiang Mai from Bangkok because I developed a cough just two weeks upon arriving there due to the smog. The laugh is certainly on me now.

[chanchao]

Today's figures are in (Thursday)... EVen lower than yesterday.

However as these are 24 hour avergaes, I wonder if we're actually looking at yesterday's levels. Becuase yesterday was indeed quite a bit clearer, but I'm less sure about today..

[chanchao]

Ok I updated that page with actual pictures of today. Actually the difference is astonishing

http://www.nachang.com/dryseason

(Click the link to the comparison page, here: http://www.nachang.com/dryseason/comparison.html

[sabaijai]

Ok I updated that page with actual pictures of today. Actually the difference is astonishing

http://www.nachang.com/dryseason

(Click the link to the comparison page, here: http://www.nachang.com/dryseason/comparison.html

Indeed. Thanks for that.

[Goshawk]

It sure has been Hazy Fantazy

and John Wayne did indeed have a big leggy

[cloudhopper]

It seems to me that the fires started earlier than usual this year here in changwat MHS. It always seems to come as a surprise to me every year just how bad it is - I must get amnesia when the first rains come and all is beautiful again almost overnight. I doubt trash burning is a big contributor to this annual phenomeon (but is certainly a lower level problem all year); as other posters have pointed out, all of the SE Asian countryside is ablaze.

Don't know if I have a solution though as it does seem that the same level of carbon would be eventually released all at once in the inevitable lightning-ignited catastrophic forest fires that would probably result if they didn't burn off the deadwood every year.

Maybe the people who've lived here for centuries have learned the hard way how to manage the forest...

[Ulysses G.]

I have a nice, new air-cleaning machine that I bought and don't even use because the air seems fine to me.

[earlofwindermere]

Where are people looking to get daily updates on the pollution levels? Are there websites that track this?

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Where are people looking to get daily updates on the pollution levels? Are there websites that track this?

http://www.pcd.go.th/AirQuality/Regional/Default.cfm

[sabaijai]

Topographically, Chiang Mai is very much like Los Angeles, surrounded by mountains that create an "inversion layer", in effect a blanket of dense air that keeps the pollution from moving away from the basin.

30 years ago or more, LA started an Air Quality Control District with full time policemen to enforce very strict rules, including the most drastic smog control rules regarding auto emisions. Catalytic converters on all cars, annual vehicle inspections, etc.

Massive amounts of money was spent on air pollution control monitors to detect violators, etc. Yes it worked after some twenty years and LA today has excellent air. However, the money and effort that went into the job seems just too great to occur in Chiang Mai in the forseeable future.

Law enforcement must be present on all levels before the neighbor farmer gets the message, and I just don't see it happening in the next 50 years in Chiang Mai where traffic law enforcement is next to non-existent.

On balance, my guess is that Chiang Mai has the bad air pollution for about three months at most. In LA, they had the problem year round as they have no rainy season. So the quesiton is, on balance, is massive enforcement of existing air polluton laws and the cost thereof justified if the problem exists for only a few months a year?

Palm Springs, two hours outside LA has some limited pollution generated locally due to dust and wind, however, it remains a major resort with a high season. In the summer, teperatures reach 120F and humidity at 80%. Unbearable and few go out of their airconditioned homes during July and August. Most leave town for the summer. 20 years ago most department stores closed for the summer months.

As a former resident, we accepted the two or three months of unbearable outside temperature and humidity conditions as the price we paid for living there. Granted there was nothing that could be done about it.

My view is that without much hope of a change in Chiang Mai's air pollution problem in the offing, we make the choice of staying in doors for a few months a year with the air conditioning/air filters running as the price of living here, or plan our vacations or vists to second homes during March, April and parts of May every year as rsidents of Palm Springs do.

This is how I think about it as well, for the most part. Years ago I used to leave town for three months this time of year but I eventually got used to it and just try to stay indoors. Unfortunately I don't have (nor do I want) aircon so that's not an option. As long as there's a breeze it's bearable, at least out by Doi Suthep.

[pilou]

Hi everybody

Could anyone advise me on the air filtering machines ? I am going to buy one soon, but there are many brands around, I saw that some posters reckon the one sold in Thailand are not that good.

So what , and if possible where , to buy, what features and characteristics to look for ?

Thanks

Phil

[lannarebirth]

Very nice breeze today and I could see the mountains more clearly every hour. This isn't going to help matters any though:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=110165

[cdnvic]

Ok I updated that page with actual pictures of today. Actually the difference is astonishing

http://www.nachang.com/dryseason

(Click the link to the comparison page, here: http://www.nachang.com/dryseason/comparison.html

Workplace Health and Safety regulations require me to provide respirators for people working in a room with half that amount of particulate in the air.

[65Craig]

There are really only 3 [or 4] possible things anyone can do about the problem here.

1. Nothing.

2. Get a summer home far way. School break coincides with the worst of the air pollution period.

3. Minimize your exposure.

4. Leave (I have read that some have adopted this draconian solution!)

Let's consider #3.

First. The aforementioned 3M Filtrete A/C filters are great! Better than HEPA or Ionizing air cleaning machines. Keep 1 or 2 rooms as "clean rooms" by running the A/C fans and/or A/C 24x7. Always sleep in one of the "clean rooms" ... change filters often.

Second. Use your car, close the windows. If you must ride a motorbike, use the 3M filters inside of a surgical mask. The surgical mask itself will probably not block 2 micron particles (the most dangerous)

Third. Don't exercise outdoors. Exercise in a "clean room" ... the last thing you want to do is inhale the smoke deeply. Shallow breathing does mitigate the exposure somewhat.

If you are on a chao-naa budget and cannot afford to have a single room air conditioned, then the second option of having a summer home is probably out of the question. Select option 1 with shallow breathing ... i.e. no [good] sex 'till June.

'Till next year,

MawGreg

Sorry but this gave me a chuckle... Actually NOT!!! I mean really. You are complaining about air quality, yet you are proposing that we run our A/C's 24x7? You are proposing that we drive our cars with the windows rolled up? And these two things aren't going to have an affect on the environment!!! Sorry to single you out, but to me those only add to the problem of a more important WORLD issue: Global Warming. Then again, maybe these statements were tongue-in-cheek and I was gullable enough to think you were serious.

[Rhodo]

Funny to read all the people (among them a lot of yanks) complain about the pollution in this country when knowing that USA is producing 25% of the carbon dioxide emissions while beeing only 4-5 % of the world population. Pathetic.

Edited March 9, 2007 by Rhodo

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Funny to read all the people (among them a lot of yanks) complain about the pollution in this country when knowing that USA is producing 25% of the carbon dioxide emissions while beeing only 4-5 % of the world population. Pathetic.

CO2 isn't toxic Einstein

However

PM < 10 micron

Ozone

Sulfer

Carbon monoxide

heavy metals in smoke

are all very damaging to health.. These tend to be quite low in the states.. So its hard for us to adjust.

Ever wonder why many CM folks have scary acne skin? its the air dude :-)

[lannarebirth]

Funny to read all the people (among them a lot of yanks) complain about the pollution in this country when knowing that USA is producing 25% of the carbon dioxide emissions while beeing only 4-5 % of the world population. Pathetic.

Every year in America, for many years now, the air quality is better than the year that preceded. This despite a growing population. That doesn't appear to be the trend here in Thailand, does it? Additionally, I think you'll find that most of the comments here refer to intentional burning of forests and agricultura; lands. That is a rarity in America.

Edited March 9, 2007 by lannarebirth

[p1p]

Sorry but this gave me a chuckle... Actually NOT!!! I mean really. You are complaining about air quality, yet you are proposing that we run our A/C's 24x7? You are proposing that we drive our cars with the windows rolled up? And these two things aren't going to have an affect on the environment!!! Sorry to single you out, but to me those only add to the problem of a more important WORLD issue: Global Warming. Then again, maybe these statements were tongue-in-cheek and I was gullable enough to think you were serious.

The important issue being discussed in this thread is how to protect yourself and your family from the Particulate Matter pollution. Both these avenues are effective in doing this.

Global warming and CO2 emissions is a different matter entirely. The particulate matter is actually helping mitigate the effects of higher CO2 by both absorbing and reflecting light back to space.

The difficulty is going to be overcoming both pollution and the causes of CO2 because if you cut back on particulate matter in the atmosphere, models predict up to 2 Degrees of warming from that alone.

If you are interested, Google "Global Dimming" for more information.

[NaiGreg]

There are really only 3 [or 4] possible things anyone can do about the problem here.

......

First. The aforementioned 3M Filtrete A/C filters are great! Better than HEPA or Ionizing air cleaning machines. Keep 1 or 2 rooms as "clean rooms" by running the A/C fans and/or A/C 24x7. Always sleep in one of the "clean rooms" ... change filters often.

'Till next year,

MawGreg

Sorry but this gave me a chuckle... Actually NOT!!! I mean really. You are complaining about air quality, yet you are proposing that we run our A/C's 24x7? You are proposing that we drive our cars with the windows rolled up? And these two things aren't going to have an affect on the environment!!! Sorry to single you out, but to me those only add to the problem of a more important WORLD issue: Global Warming. Then again, maybe these statements were tongue-in-cheek and I was gullable enough to think you were serious.

Glad you got a chuckle Mr. 65Craig, but you see I have small children that I care about and I want to do something protect their health. They spend 50% of their days in clean air during these "bad air" months. I wish it could be more. Have you been reading about the health warnings/issues here? Do you "really" live in Chiangmai? I doubt it.

Did I mention that my A/C units are powered by fission reactors that do not contribute to globlal warming.

btw, what percentage of global warming is attributed to people driving with their windows rolled up, as you have suggested? You don't have to know the exact percentage, a ball park figure will do.