Stroppy - Would you use this word in Thai about a child ?

[Speedo1968]

If a child behaves in this way - stroppy - what word would be the 'polite' form to use ?

[Bluetongue]

Not sure. doo (naughty) doesn't really cover it, are you thinking in relation to a spoilt older child or just a bratty younger child? Hopefully over on the language subforum many can help.

[Lamkyong]

bring back the strop i say

[GinBoy2]

I don't think there is a word for it.

 

I asked my wife, who having grown up in the US as kid understands the word, doesn't think it exists in Thai. 

'naughty' is as close as it gets 

[Speedo1968]

On 3/29/2019 at 7:00 PM, GinBoy2 said:

I don't think there is a word for it.

 

I asked my wife, who having grown up in the US as kid understands the word, doesn't think it exists in Thai. 

'naughty' is as close as it gets 

Thanks for the reply Ginboy2, guess its one of these words that is only understood by those that know it or use it.   

 

I think 'stroppy' is an English word and possibly, it seems, dates back to the early 1950's.  I certainly remember it from growing up in London in the 1950's.

 

Could perhaps be a shortened and altered form of the word obstreperous,  

Bolshy is another word but I would consider this to be more relevant to someone in their late teens or 20's.

 

[katana]

What age group child were you thinking of?

[GinBoy2]

13 hours ago, Speedo1968 said:

Thanks for the reply Ginboy2, guess its one of these words that is only understood by those that know it or use it.   

 

I think 'stroppy' is an English word and possibly, it seems, dates back to the early 1950's.  I certainly remember it from growing up in London in the 1950's.

 

Could perhaps be a shortened and altered form of the word obstreperous,  

Bolshy is another word but I would consider this to be more relevant to someone in their late teens or 20's.

 

We use stroppy in American English too.

 

Bolshy, that's a new one for my lexicon!

 

I'm making the leap it is derived from Bolsivich?

Which I may have spelt incorrectly LOL

[Speedo1968]

19 hours ago, katana said:

What age group child were you thinking of?

 

Not my child but have known her since she was 3.

Age 7 female - has family issues - is bright - often put down by her mother.

Child very bright but will move to 'local' school.

The child is obviously trying to protect herself but stroppiness has got to the point of being rude.

Another relative understands the child but can say nothing and neither will I.

My question is really just a question as to what would be said here.

[Speedo1968]

10 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

We use stroppy in American English too.

 

Bolshy, that's a new one for my lexicon!

 

I'm making the leap it is derived from Bolsivich?

Which I may have spelt incorrectly LOL

Yes Ginboy2 quite right, derived from Bolshevik sometime in the early 20th century.

Basically means a revolutionary behaviour - guess we have all been there at some stage in our lives.

 

[RickG16]

23 hours ago, Speedo1968 said:

 

Could perhaps be a shortened and altered form of the word obstreperous,  

 

 

You sound like a clever guy. Any solutions for Brexit while your at it? 

[NE1]

Belligerent ?

[katana]

51 minutes ago, Speedo1968 said:

 

Not my child but have known her since she was 3.

Age 7 female - has family issues - is bright - often put down by her mother.

Child very bright but will move to 'local' school.

The child is obviously trying to protect herself but stroppiness has got to the point of being rude.

Another relative understands the child but can say nothing and neither will I.

My question is really just a question as to what would be said here.

I see.

The link below has several Thai words used in relation to irritable babies and how parents should deal with it, but I'm not sure how suitable they are for a 7 year-old. Maybe some of them carry over.
eg
หงุดหงิด - touchy, grouchy, irritable, moody, testy, cranky
โมโหร้าย - violent tempered
เจ้าอารมณ์ - temperamental, emotional, testy
ขี้วีน - prone to fly off the handle at someone

https://th.theasianparent.com/ลูกขี้หงุดหงิด

[Speedo1968]

23 hours ago, katana said:

I see.

The link below has several Thai words used in relation to irritable babies and how parents should deal with it, but I'm not sure how suitable they are for a 7 year-old. Maybe some of them carry over.
eg
หงุดหงิด - touchy, grouchy, irritable, moody, testy, cranky
โมโหร้าย - violent tempered
เจ้าอารมณ์ - temperamental, emotional, testy
ขี้วีน - prone to fly off the handle at someone

https://th.theasianparent.com/ลูกขี้หงุดหงิด

Many thanks katana.

I think 'testy' is the nearest I would use, not sure how well understood it would be.

Have taught a number of children m/f here with ADHD'S ( the girl in question does not have it ), the affected have always been boys, any sister in the family would generally seem to show protective reflexes by way of body language rather than verbal; these actions would in some cases almost mimic the condition itself.

[Speedo1968]

On 4/3/2019 at 7:25 PM, RickG16 said:

You sound like a clever guy. Any solutions for Brexit while your at it? 

Not sure if I would be allowed to utter suitable enough words on this site !

"Let them eat cake" would/ could possibly apply to ALL involved with this fiasco.

[Puwa]

It depends on the specific behavior. If her parents say, "Go to school!" and she replies, "I don't want to go to school!" then she's being stubborn-- ดื้อ.

 

But if she replies, "<deleted> off, you fat, old bastard!" then I guess an apt description would be ปากร้าย ไม่เคารพผู้ใหญ่-- foul-mouthed and disrespectful of her elders.

[RickBradford]

I've seen a lot of Thai parents be very indulgent of children, so that they use the word ซน almost in an admiring way, as little Somchai pokes out your eye with a twig. Any words stronger than that seem to be rare.

 

I'm quite happy to growl น่ารำคาญ จุงเบย at children being annoying (the slang being used to perhaps lighten the admonishment), but whether it's the words or my tone of voice that conveys the meaning is hard to say.

 

 

[tgeezer]

I believe that we can only use words which we have learned by experience, I might also say น่ารำคาญ and a picture of a Thai using that word in a similar situation would come to mind. I would translate it as “you are annoying me”. Very often admonishments appeal to the better nature of people which is why I wouldn’t see น่ารำคาญ as “you are annoying” although many will see no difference between those two interpretations.

 

Of จุงเบย I have no experience. However when admonishing a child they generally know what they are doing wrong so whatever you say, they learn, ‘stroppy’, ‘จุลเบย’ or almost any word not familiar to them will do.

In discussion with Thais describing a child’s demeanour, you will need words suggested here and many more in order to find out precisely a word which equates to your feelings when saying the word ‘stroppy.

 

On the Army Golf Course, (a power trip) on a few occasions when I have had disagreements with Thais which demand a response I have learnt it best to revert to my own language. This has the advantage of de-escalating the situation because nothing I say, provided I manage to avoid well known expletives will be fully understood so that body language and tone become paramount on my side. Thais, even civil servants who often claim, or have paperwork proving that they speak English, usually give up at that point.

 

 

 

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[tgeezer]

Another suggestion, this time from a Thai on Facetime. My familiarity with stroppy comes from my time in the military where it was used to describe a sailor who resented authority and was determined not to comply. This is how I explained it to my interlocutor who suggested หัวแขง. คนที่ไม่เชื่อฟัง .
which I take to mean that they don’t accept the rightness of what society , personified by the teacher or senior officer, is asking of them. I asked if หัวแขง might be used with children and was told, yes.


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[bheard]

We use stroppy in American English too.
 
Bolshy, that's a new one for my lexicon!
 
I'm making the leap it is derived from Bolsivich?
Which I may have spelt incorrectly LOL

Bolshy, as an Aussie I've heard it used, not too clear about it's meaning but I'm thinking "overtly uppity". Am I anywhere near the mark? Definitely can't imagine what that may mean in Thai.

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[Speedo1968]

6 hours ago, bheard said:

Bolshy, as an Aussie I've heard it used, not too clear about it's meaning but I'm thinking "overtly uppity". Am I anywhere near the mark? Definitely can't imagine what that may mean in Thai.

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Hello bheard

Thanks for your comments.

Bolshy means more like taking a revolutionary stance against others who try to dictate order e.g. parents.

Below find a few alternatives to 'uppity'

 

As of now, the word "uppity" is often used as a synonym for "stuck up" or "pretentious" or "conceited." ... The word Uppity was first used by Southerners to refer to slaves who did not fall into line, or acted as if they "didn't know their place.

 

arrogant, assumptive, bumptious, cavalier, chesty, haughty, high-and-mighty, high-handed, high-hat, highfalutin (also hifalutin), huffish, huffy, imperious, important, lofty, lordly, masterful, overweening, peremptory, pompous, presuming, presumptuous, pretentious, self-asserting, self-assertive, sniffy, stiff-necked,

[Trembly]

The closest word is กระฟัดกระเฟียด (grafad-grafiad). It's how you behave and do things when you're being stroppy. 

For example, making a big show of smacking things around when cooking is ทำอาหารอย่างกระฟัดกระเฟียด.

In itself it's not negative, but it's common sense that most people tend not to like it when someone is กระฟัดกระเฟียดing. 

If your wife says "why did you just tell him off?" you could say "he was grafad-grafiad all day and I had to grip him about his attitude". 

[Speedo1968]

14 hours ago, Trembly said:

The closest word is กระฟัดกระเฟียด (grafad-grafiad). It's how you behave and do things when you're being stroppy. 

For example, making a big show of smacking things around when cooking is ทำอาหารอย่างกระฟัดกระเฟียด.

In itself it's not negative, but it's common sense that most people tend not to like it when someone is กระฟัดกระเฟียดing. 

If your wife says "why did you just tell him off?" you could say "he was grafad-grafiad all day and I had to grip him about his attitude". 

Many thanks for the explanation Trembly, I especially like the 'ing' translation in Thai to 'กระฟัดกระเฟียดing'

[Speedo1968]

On 4/6/2019 at 3:00 PM, tgeezer said:

Another suggestion, this time from a Thai on Facetime. My familiarity with stroppy comes from my time in the military where it was used to describe a sailor who resented authority and was determined not to comply. This is how I explained it to my interlocutor who suggested หัวแขง. คนที่ไม่เชื่อฟัง .
which I take to mean that they don’t accept the rightness of what society , personified by the teacher or senior officer, is asking of them. I asked if หัวแขง might be used with children and was told, yes.


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Many thanks tgeezer, I especially like your suggestion of "don’t accept the rightness of what society , personified by the teacher"

[tgeezer]

Many thanks tgeezer, I especially like your suggestion of "don’t accept the rightness of what society , personified by the teacher"

Thank you, that is gratifying.


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[tgeezer]

The closest word is กระฟัดกระเฟียด (grafad-grafiad). It's how you behave and do things when you're being stroppy. 

For example, making a big show of smacking things around when cooking is ทำอาหารอย่างกระฟัดกระเฟียด.

In itself it's not negative, but it's common sense that most people tend not to like it when someone is กระฟัดกระเฟียดing. 

If your wife says "why did you just tell him off?" you could say "he was grafad-grafiad all day and I had to grip him about his attitude". 

Thanks, new word for me. In the RID กระฟัดกระเฟียด is mostly applied to women’s behaviour, feigning anger is how I would put it.

หัวแขง > headstrong >violently self willed seems to fit as the type of person who would be กระฟัดกระเฟียด , so maybe we are not so far apart.



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[Trembly]

8 hours ago, tgeezer said:

Thanks, new word for me. In the RID กระฟัดกระเฟียด is mostly applied to women’s behaviour, feigning anger is how I would put it.

หัวแขง > headstrong >violently self willed seems to fit as the type of person who would be กระฟัดกระเฟียด , so maybe we are not so far apart.



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I don't believe there to be any inherent gender bias in กระฟัดกระเฟียด.

 

A better word for stroppy has just occurred to me: หัวฟัดหัวเหวี่ยง (hua fad hua wiang) which is often shortened to just เหวี่ยง (wiang) in everyday spoken Thai. To wiang is to literally swing or throw something with much force, in this case your temper/attitude.

 

หัวแข็ง relates to being obstinate, literally hardheaded, a somewhat different quality.

 

[tgeezer]

WelI, I have found ฟัด meaning เหวี่ยง, สบัดไปมา I know สบัด is what a dog does to dry itself after come no out of water but เหวี่ยง has ซัดเบี่ยงไป I know ซัด everything seems to be related to doing things strongly but I am getting so far away from simple familiar words and have no context for any of it that I feel as though my feet aren’t touching the bottom! Your understanding of stroppy is also completely different from mine which doesn’t help.
I think that I will leave it there.

Oh, ใช้แก่ผู้หญิง actually comes from a modern RID definition of กระฟัดกระเฟียด which has also added อาการทำโกรธ to the 2525 edition definition of only อาการที่แสร้งทำโกรธ .


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