Poll - do you have medical insurance/self-insure savings?

[Sheryl]

42 minutes ago, ravip said:

If a foreigner is married to a Thai government employee, isn't he/she covered?

 

Yes but not under 30 baht. Under the Civil Service SS.

 

 

[simon43]

Quote

 

What policy is that Simon and when did you join.
 

 

 

It's DavidShield Essential policy.  I actually joined 2 days ago, switching from my HCI policy that I'd had for 2+ years.  The only reason to switch was because HCI has a mandatory $2,000 excess and DavidShield has a zero baht excess. 

 

I'm 59 years, 10 months and wanted to make this switch before I hit 60 years old, in case it were difficult switch insurers after my 60th birthday.

[BobBKK]

Very odd questions. It's usually 5m or 1m (not less than 1m). I've got a combo:

 

1m cover + some savings but I do take the point that 3m could be easily swallowed up and maybe I should review that. I am with Aetna. 

[scubascuba3]

Hopefully tourists haven't voted in the poll which doesn't specify expats

[simon43]

Hopefully tourists haven't voted in the poll which doesn't specify expats

 

Tourists have more important things to do than read this forum.. ????

[scubascuba3]

   

What policy is that Simon and when did you join.

 

 

  It's DavidShield Essential policy.  I actually joined 2 days ago, switching from my HCI policy that I'd had for 2+ years.  The only reason to switch was because HCI has a mandatory $2,000 excess and DavidShield has a zero baht excess. 

 

I'm 59 years, 10 months and wanted to make this switch before I hit 60 years old, in case it were difficult switch insurers after my 60th birthday.

 

 

I can't see any reviews of David Shield using google, i find that strange.

 

HCI has many poor claim reviews, although most recent that i could see was 2018, but its not exactly a reference

 

 

 

[simon43]

I can't see any reviews of David Shield using google, i find that strange.

 

I also find that strange, because a 30 second Google search found 7 reviews (several from people who live in Thailand and had to claim on their policies). Those were all 5-star reviews.

 

Not surprisingly, there were also a couple of bad reviews.

 

Hint - check their Facebook page.

 

I think I made the right decision to change from HCI to DavidShield.  Let's hope that I never have to test this ????

[scubascuba3]

 

 

 

 

I also find that strange, because a 30 second Google search found 7 reviews (several from people who live in Thailand and had to claim on their policies). Those were all 5-star reviews.

 

Not surprisingly, there were also a couple of bad reviews.

 

Hint - check their Facebook page.

 

I think I made the right decision to change from HCI to DavidShield.  Let's hope that I never have to test this [emoji846]

 

7 reviews on facebook is hardly extensive, so that's HCI and David Shield out for me

 

[Sheryl]

It is very hard to find balanced reviews for any expat health insurance policy, Basically you have just got the insurer's own websites, which naturally have only positive reviews, and then sites like "p&%sed off consumer" which naturally have only complaints.

 

Brokers can usually provide frank offline advioce based on their experience.

[tingtongtourist]

On 3/24/2019 at 12:10 AM, scubascuba3 said:

On 3/23/2019 at 11:56 PM, Sheryl said:

One of  the big problems with self insuring (other than that most people who say they self-insure actually do not) is that once your money is spent, it is spent, and while you may have managed to put aside enough, how will you replenish it? And if - as is usually the case -- you cannot, what then will you do?

It's a good point, its all a gamble to fund 1 big event, multiple big events would be difficult to handle, but as i and a friend discuss, at a certain age you may choose not to go on, controversial i know

As far as i heard, if you have one big event the insurance will not pay on any others related...or they wont insure you again.

 

If you won a claim as a newish policy holder and hadnt paid millions previously in premiums the company will axe you for sure or find every excuse not to pay. 

 

If you win a claim on that first event, the new premiums will be so rediculously high you cannot afford to pay them in future anyway, so you will have to pay for future care yourself 

either way you will be drained of savings

[simon43]

As far as i heard, if you have one big event the insurance will not pay on any others related...or they wont insure you again.

 

No, no ,no! ????

 

As has been stated in this thread by myself and Sheryl numerous times - if you choose a UK/European 'expat' insurance policy, then under the insurance regulations of that territory, the company cannot price you out or refuse to renew your insurance policy if you make a claim or refuse to honour future val;id claims.

 

Companies regulated by these rules include HCI, April, Allianz, BUPA International, Cigna, Davidshield.

[Sheryl]

As far as i heard, if you have one big event the insurance will not pay on any others related...or they wont insure you again.

 

If you won a claim as a newish policy holder and hadnt paid millions previously in premiums the company will axe you for sure or find every excuse not to pay. 

 

If you win a claim on that first event, the new premiums will be so rediculously high you cannot afford to pay them in future anyway, so you will have to pay for future care yourself 

either way you will be drained of savings

No policy allows a company to refuse to insure you again or refuse to pay for related claims per se unless you fail to pay your premium or have committed fraud.

 

All policies have maximums. In some cases the maximums are per event, in some they are per year. If you reach the maximum amount for an event then indeed they will not pay more until some time has passed. This highlights the importance of having an adequate level of cover. 3-5 million baht cap per event or 6-10 million per year (all events) is minimum you need if you want the option of using private hospitals. Internationally issued policies (i.e. expat policy from an international, not Thai, company) almost always have caps well above this so no problem. Thai companies often offer policies with unrealistically low caps and these are not advisable.

 

Thai issued insurance policies also often have clauses that allow them to raise your premiums on an individual basis if you have a large claim. They can't refuse to insure you, but they may manage to price you out. Intetnationally issued policies usually do not allow this. A big reason why these are usually a better choice.

 

The health insurance market in Thailand is small and many of the products are poorly designed. The regulatory environment is also weak. Fortunately there are many good policies offered by international companies specifically designed for expats.

 

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[scubascuba3]

No policy allows a company to refuse to insure you again or refuse to pay for related claims per se unless you fail to pay your premium or have committed fraud. 
All policies have maximums. In some cases the maximums are per event, in some they are per year. If you reach the maximum amount for an event then indeed they will not pay more until some time has passed. This highlights the importance of having an adequate level of cover. 3-5 million baht cap per event or 6-10 million per year (all events) is minimum you need if you want the option of using private hospitals. Internationally issued policies (i.e. expat policy from an international, not Thai, company) almost always have caps well above this so no problem. Thai companies often offer policies with unrealistically low caps and these are not advisable.
 
Thai issued insurance policies also often have clauses that allow them to raise your premiums on an individual basis if you have a large claim. They can't refuse to insure you, but they may manage to price you out. Intetnationally issued policies usually do not allow this. A big reason why these are usually a better choice.
 
The health insurance market in Thailand is small and many of the products are poorly designed. The regulatory environment is also weak. Fortunately there are many good policies offered by international companies specifically designed for expats.
 
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With April International the application form section 6 asks have you ever had or currently have symptoms/diseases and lists various things, no mention of within 5 years or asks you to specify when. I for example last had asthma 30 years ago, i thought they had to exclude after 5 years

What's your thoughts on that?

[Sheryl]

It looks like this is the form for April My Healrh Thailand which is NOT what you want.

You want April My Health International issued by April Global out of France. Totally different policy. Will not have any Thai language in it.


Always answer all questions honestly. There is usually a section where you give the details of anything you answered yes to and that would include dates.

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[ballpoint]

On ‎3‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 6:23 PM, AlexRich said:

The problem is that if your condition is very serious the option of going back to the UK may not be there. For example, serious car accident, stroke, heart failure. Travel may not be an option for some.

A point I've often thought about is that medical insurance covers both bad health and accidents.  Although the consequences of an accident may get worse as one ages (brittle bones / hips etc) does the risk of having an accident increase?  Has anyone heard of policies that cover only medical expenses caused by an accident?  Surely they wouldn't care about pre-existing conditions and the greater risk of ill health with age?

[scubascuba3]

It looks like this is the form for April My Healrh Thailand which is NOT what you want.

You want April My Health International issued by April Global out of France. Totally different policy. Will not have any Thai language in it.


Always answer all questions honestly. There is usually a section where you give the details of anything you answered yes to and that would include dates.

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What's the reason for opting for the April Global out of France rather than Thailand version?

[ThaiBunny]

1 minute ago, ballpoint said:

A point I've often thought about is that medical insurance covers both bad health and accidents.  Although the consequences of an accident may get worse as one ages (brittle bones / hips etc) does the risk of having an accident increase?  Has anyone heard of policies that cover only medical expenses caused by an accident?  Surely they wouldn't care about pre-existing conditions and the greater risk of ill health with age?

There are certainly accident-only policies and I have one myself.  However your policy when you claim would, I think, need to be with the same insurer as the time when you had your accident, otherwise it would be precluded because already-existing

[scubascuba3]

Has anyone heard of policies that cover only medical expenses caused by an accident?  Surely they wouldn't care about pre-existing conditions and the greater risk of ill health with age?

That is personal accident insurance and is circ 15k baht premium for 600k medical cover. Axa do one which you can get details from AAInsurance brokers

[HampiK]

39 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

53 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

It looks like this is the form for April My Healrh Thailand which is NOT what you want.

You want April My Health International issued by April Global out of France. Totally different policy. Will not have any Thai language in it.


Always answer all questions honestly. There is usually a section where you give the details of anything you answered yes to and that would include dates.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

What's the reason for opting for the April Global out of France rather than Thailand version?

The conditions are not the same. With the International one you can be sure that they not will raise the premiums after a claim.

As the April Thailand are under Thai rules which are much easier for the Insurance company. As I never read the conditions for April Health Thailand I can't tell you in details, wait maybe Sherryl will give you a 100% answer to this question.

 

Not mean they worse, but I would trust a Insurance company under International rules (EU, Swiss) much more.

[scubascuba3]

The conditions are not the same. With the International one you can be sure that they not will raise the premiums after a claim.
As the April Thailand are under Thai rules which are much easier for the Insurance company. As I never read the conditions for April Health Thailand I can't tell you in details, wait maybe Sherryl will give you a 100% answer to this question.
 
Not mean they worse, but I would trust a Insurance company under International rules (EU, Swiss) much more.

Interesting, AA Insurance emailed to me the Thailand version and never mentioned the Global/France version, I've requested details

[Sheryl]

What's the reason for opting for the April Global out of France rather than Thailand version?

They cannot raise premiums based on claim history.

The policy comes under French or EU law (I forget which) and arbitration in case of dispute.

Thete were some other points but these ate the main ones I recall.



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[Sheryl]

A point I've often thought about is that medical insurance covers both bad health and accidents.  Although the consequences of an accident may get worse as one ages (brittle bones / hips etc) does the risk of having an accident increase?  Has anyone heard of policies that cover only medical expenses caused by an accident?  Surely they wouldn't care about pre-existing conditions and the greater risk of ill health with age?

There are accident only polocies but level of cover for medical expenses is loe and becomes extremely low as you age.

The elderly are extremely prone to accidents and risk of accident (especially falls) rises sharply with age.

The highest cover I have seen is 600k for people under 65 years (Siam Commercial) and 200k for 65 -80 (Bangkok Insurance) but after age 80 medical cost cover is so low as to not be worth having.

This is in 3-5 million baht policies. The names are misleading as represent maximmum payout which is for death, not medical cost reimbursement. These policies emphasize death and dismemberment pay outs more than medical costs.

Still, premiums are low and it is certainly worth having if you can't get regular health insurance and useful as an adjunct even if you can since it covers outpatient as well as inpatient and no deductible.



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[beau thai]

10 hours ago, simon43 said:

 

 

 

No, no ,no! ????

 

As has been stated in this thread by myself and Sheryl numerous times - if you choose a UK/European 'expat' insurance policy, then under the insurance regulations of that territory, the company cannot price you out or refuse to renew your insurance policy if you make a claim or refuse to honour future val;id claims.

 

Companies regulated by these rules include HCI, April, Allianz, BUPA International, Cigna, Davidshield.

But what they can do is jack up the the premium renewal cost to a level that drives policyholders away. Despite having no claims, Cigna suddenly increased mine by a factor of 3 for no reason other than I was a year older. I cancelled. So I guess they achieved what they wanted to, and got rid of me before claims arose! 

[HampiK]

1 hour ago, beau thai said:

But what they can do is jack up the the premium renewal cost to a level that drives policyholders away. Despite having no claims, Cigna suddenly increased mine by a factor of 3 for no reason other than I was a year older. I cancelled. So I guess they achieved what they wanted to, and got rid of me before claims arose! 

You have Cigna Thailand or Cigna International?

 

Increase by factor 3, that sounds almost impossible, so I would like to have more details… very strange.

[simon43]

1 hour ago, beau thai said:

But what they can do is jack up the the premium renewal cost to a level that drives policyholders away. Despite having no claims, Cigna suddenly increased mine by a factor of 3 for no reason other than I was a year older. I cancelled. So I guess they achieved what they wanted to, and got rid of me before claims arose! 

As HampiK mentions, that sounds completely strange.  Before choosing my policy I got a statement from Cigna UK where they gave me the actual premium increases per age band - the amount was typically about 20% I seem to recall.

 

Furthermore, they cannot increase your premium only for you as an individual, even if you had claimed on the policy previously. They can only apply a premium increase on ALL insurees in the same age band.

[Sheryl]

But what they can do is jack up the the premium renewal cost to a level that drives policyholders away. Despite having no claims, Cigna suddenly increased mine by a factor of 3 for no reason other than I was a year older. I cancelled. So I guess they achieved what they wanted to, and got rid of me before claims arose! 

They cannot and do not raise premiums on an individual basis. No claims or many multi-million baht claims ----》 no diffetence.

They do raise premiums based on age and in the case if Cigna they work in 5 year age bands i.e. there will be no age related increase for 4 years then a large one in year 5 (if you consider from the 1st year in a particular age band). Likely you moved from one age band to another hence the big increase the next year. It would then have been stable for the next 4 years.

Nothing to do with an attempt or desire to get rid of you.

Some insurers raise premiums for each year of age, in those cases the change is less but it averages out the same over time.

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